Marc:

Well, Franklin County, where I grew up, is a Blue Zone in the heart of Ohio. And the home of the state capital, Columbus. Ross County, where I now live, is a Red Zone about fifty miles south of Columbus.

That makes Franklin an inner-city Blue Zone school and Ross County rural Red Zone. No good. You've got too many variables. The differences might simply be inner-city versus rural. In fact, that's the most likely explanation.


What you need to find for a proper comparison is either two schools BOTH in inner cities but one of them Red Zone, or two schools BOTH in rural areas but one of them Blue Zone. And preferably a number of such pairs, so as to avoid single-case anomalies.


There's also the question, which I posed earlier, of how much leeway individual schools and school districts have to vary educational methods. How much of what you're objecting to and positing as the cause of the problems is mandated either by the state or by the federal government? To the extent it is, all schools -- including Red Zone schools -- would operate using the same methods.


Tristan:

Wasn't the cold war about the struggle between Capitalism and Socialism, Capitalism won in the end.

No. The Cold War was about the struggle between democracy and autocracy, and democracy won in the end. The struggle between capitalism and socialism occurred in the last saeculum, and the outcome was a compromise between the two. We do not have a true, pure capitalist economy today, and have not had one since the 1930s. No advanced nation does -- including Australia.

The education system has problems because it is the last great socialist enterprise, it has no market-based allocation and the teachers aren't accountable to anyone.

The education system we have today is much to be preferred of the "system" that prevailed before there was such a thing as public education. In those days, you and I would both probably remain uneducated, as we are not the children of the rich.


There are many things that the profit motive simply does not empower. Education of children, other than the children of the rich, is one of them. Anything involving the commons, e.g. the protection of air quality or the husbanding of resources, or for that matter the guarding of the borders, is something that a market economy cannot handle.

Wow. Looks like, even with all the problems in the cities, the Franklin County schools are better overall. Though it would be interesting to examine exactly where the truly problem school (the Academic Emergency one) is located.

On 2002-04-21 18:55, Brian Rush wrote:
Wow. Looks like, even with all the problems in the cities, the Franklin County schools are better overall. Though it would be interesting to examine exactly where the truly problem school (the Academic Emergency one) is located.

Well, it's the inner-city one in Columbus City. Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig surprise.

Right, and I really should modify something I implied earlier, saying that urban schools were at an inherent disadvantage. That's only true for very poor urban schools, where most of the students live in poverty. For the middle class and even the working class, city life has enormous advantages with regard to education, and I would think that living in the Blue Zone would, too.


The advantages of city life involve the opportunities available in urban areas that just aren't there in the country: well-funded and well-stocked public libraries, a cosmopolitan culture stimulating to curiosity and discouraging closed-mindedness, and cultural and artistic activity (both high and low culture).


The advantages of Blue Zone over Red Zone culture for purposes of education derive from the latter's predominance of Evangelical Christian belief. Many Evangelical denominations actively discourage education as "man's wisdom" which encourages pride and a disdain for God's teaching. Even those that don't go so far often hold views which conflict either with science or with an ability to learn from other traditions or both.


A mind is like a parachute. It only works when open. And the culture of the Red Zone is fundamentally closed-minded. This disadvantage can be overcome, and I am sure a goodly number of Red Zone students do overcome it, but it would tend to underperformance on the average.


In short, the same caveats that applied when Marc was asserting superiority in the other direction also apply here. Don't assume that it's the schools themselves or the way that they teach. Much more likely, in my opinion, it's the culture in which the teaching takes place.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brian Rush on 2002-04-21 19:23 ]</font>

Oh, and just in case Marc decides on the basis of the above to call me a "bigot," which has become his tendency lately, I engage herewith in a preemptive strike.


From a search for "bigot" at dictionary.com:

1. A hypocrite; esp., a superstitious hypocrite. [Obs.]

2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

So in other words, a person who believes that his own religion is uniquely favored by God and that all nonbelievers will go to Hell and be tormented for all eternity is a bigot.


We will all have to come to our own conclusions as to whether a person who rejects such bigoted views vehemently is himself a bigot, or merely someone who recognizes that tolerance of intolerance is self-defeating.

One need only to look at the first two districts in Franklin County to understand that the real problem in Columbus is a clear and present conspiracy of Oppression and Racism
<table class='Wf' border=0 align='center' width='100%' cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 nowrap> <tr><td><pre>
County/District Budget Rank Status
Franklin County
Bexley City 7,746 35 Excellent
Columbus City 6,879 64 Acadc Emergency
</pre></td></tr></table>
Quote:
"With the implementation of so-called desegregation, the local real estate brokers and developers began to encourage white citizens to leave the city school district for the new developments in the growing suburbs. They also vigorously discouraged first-time home buyers from locating in the city school district, always invoking the specter of the racial arrangement ushered in by so-called desegregation. Years of manipulation worked their evil magic: where once the district enrolled 110,000 pupils, 77 percent of whom were white, the Columbus schools now have only 64,000 students enrolled, of whom 60 percent are black. The stage was set for a dramatic change in the allegiance citizens should feel to the youth of Columbus, and a new way of thinking entered into the district's staff."

As far as the best districts in Franklin County go... <table class='Wf' border=0 align='center' width='100%' cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 nowrap> <tr><td><pre>
Dublin City 6,954 60 Effective
Grand Heights City 8,027 25 Excellent
Upper Arlington City 9,012 12 Excellent
Worthington City 7,288 47 Excellent
Plain Local 7,427 45 Effective
</pre></td></tr></table>
Dublin City: This is the exclusive town that Jack Nicklaus built. His Memorial Golf Tournament lies in the very heart of the district.
Grandview Heights City: Old upscale Italian community near downtown. I guess folks here just believe in a good education.
Upper Arlington City: Home to more lawyers, doctors, and professionals than anywhere else in Franklin County.
Worthington City: Pretty standard middle class stuff here.
Plain Local: Home of Les Wexner who founded The Limited. Home to the "new" rich of central Ohio.

As for me, I graduated for a Columbus public school in 1974. About three years before forced-busing went into effect (and the great "racial" conspiracy began :lol: ).


p.s. Oh yeah, Bexley is a very old place... and home of the Governor, most high ranking government types, very old money etc...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-04-21 20:32 ]</font>

Mr. Rush writes,
"Oh, and just in case Marc decides on the basis of the above to call me a "bigot," which has become his tendency lately, I engage herewith in a preemptive strike."

Good grief, that only goes without saying, Mr. Rush. You are a religious bigot! Hell, you wear as a badge of honor, why change now?

But herein lies the very harmful bigotry: 2000 Election Results shows that 90% of the Black vote went for a Democrat, 9% for a Republican. Given what I just posted, would you agree that Blacks are "obstinately and blindly devoted" to one "party, belief, or opinion" with a ridiculous callous disregard for the results? :smile:

And wouldn't you agree, Mr. Rush, that liberals just love it, laughing all the way to political office while promising the moon but delivering a rusting pail of garbage?

If blacks vote Democratic, that shows intelligence, not bigotry; in two ways. First, it shows blacks think more seriously about the issues, are concerned enough to do so, and hence vote Democratic because Democrats think about issues as they affect society, while Republicans think about how it affects rich class interests (I am exaggerating here, especially about Democrats. But be that as it may....) Second, it shows blacks are smart enough to know which party represents their interests. Which party's presidents pushed for civil rights, Marc? Which party passed the civil rights act?

The data on schools seemed to effectively show that those best funded scored the best.

On 60 Minutes they showed how students in schools operated by the military perform best, regardless of class or race. It shows that government can run schools, that students do well with good funding, and most of all that parental involvement counts. But this meant actual parental participation in education; not pressuring school boards to teach what they think should be taught, as conservatives on these boards think should happen.

I wonder if increasing concern for schools is 3T or 4T. Certainly it will be 4T when some of these culture wars shibolleths touted by conservatives are shoved aside; but I wonder what the next 4T will do about education. Will it also shove aside innovative ideas because increasing regimentation will be the order of the day? Will there be more patriotism, or more concern with the real ability of students to participate in society as informed and creative citizens?

I just got back from visiting my father in Dallas, Texas, and if airport security is any indication, we are definitely in a 4T! Wow--airports are practically under martial law.

First of all, there is a huge list of things you cannot bring onto the airplane and ways you cannot behave--for example, you can't bring on anything sharp, even a nail clipper, pocket knife or sewing needles, any metal containers (I had to nix the idea of brownies in a tin as a gift!), and of course you can't make jokes about terrorism. My daughter is an asthmatic and I had to take her metal-encased inhaler in our carryon bag, and this was carefully inspected at the check-in area.

You are ID'd again before boarding the plane, but this may have always been done--I am not a frequent flyer so I don't really know.

Other changes were the ARMED MARINES flanking the inspection area, very careful inspection of ID, and extra careful inspection of all carry-on items. You are not allowed to have any friends or relatives accompany you to the gate; once you're approved they must leave you at the inspection/check-in area.

If you're over a certain age, you get frisked and then scanned after they check all your carryon baggage. They check EVERYTHING--on both my flights a uniformed guard (it seems they use women to check women, and men to check men) scans everything from your metal underwire bra supports to the bottoms of your shoes. Every part of your body is scanned. My kids were checked but not scanned, so I think this procedure is probably only used on adults (and maybe teens). If you go out to smoke a cigarette (except for the occasional airport bar, you cannot smoke anywhere in an airport), you must LEAVE THE BUILDING and go through the whole procedure again.

Good grief, that only goes without saying, Mr. Rush. You are a religious bigot!

Ever study mathematics, Marc? You know about negative numbers, and how they reverse the usual results of multiplication, so that a negative times a negative is a positive while a negative times a positive is a negative?


Well, it's exactly that way with my attitude towards religious bigots, such as those who believe all unbelievers are going to Hell. This is, in philosophical terms, a negative. Applying a positive to it, e.g. respect or toleration, would result only in a greater negative, while applying a negative, i.e. rejection, results in a positive. Tolerance cannot extend to intolerance itself.


If I were a bigot, as you suggest, then I would have the same negative attitude towards ALL religions other than the one I practice. I don't. I only react this way to those which are, themselves, bigoted and intolerant. And that, quite honestly, means certain sub-sects of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism, plus perhaps the Nichiren Shoshu sect of Buddhism. I may be leaving some out, but certainly I would exclude here the majority of believers in most of the world's religions.


Which is more than Christian or Muslim fundamentalists would do.

And wouldn't you agree, Mr. Rush, that liberals just love it, laughing all the way to political office while promising the moon but delivering a rusting pail of garbage?

No, but I would agree that Democrats do.


If they really were liberals, they wouldn't be delivering that rusting pail of garbage. But Democrats are no longer liberals. That's the problem, and the real reason why Al Gore tied the 2000 election. If he'd been a liberal, he'd have slam dunked it.

On 2002-04-21 20:23, Marc Lamb wrote:
One need only to look at the first two districts in Franklin County to understand that the real problem in Columbus is a clear and present conspiracy of Oppression and Racism
<table class='Wf' border=0 align='center' width='100%' cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 nowrap> <tr><td><pre>
County/District Budget Rank Status
Franklin County
Bexley City 7,746 35 Excellent
Columbus City 6,879 64 Acadc Emergency
</pre></td></tr></table>
Quote:
"With the implementation of so-called desegregation, the local real estate brokers and developers began to encourage white citizens to leave the city school district for the new developments in the growing suburbs. They also vigorously discouraged first-time home buyers from locating in the city school district, always invoking the specter of the racial arrangement ushered in by so-called desegregation. Years of manipulation worked their evil magic: where once the district enrolled 110,000 pupils, 77 percent of whom were white, the Columbus schools now have only 64,000 students enrolled, of whom 60 percent are black. The stage was set for a dramatic change in the allegiance citizens should feel to the youth of Columbus, and a new way of thinking entered into the district's staff."

As far as the best districts in Franklin County go... <table class='Wf' border=0 align='center' width='100%' cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 nowrap> <tr><td><pre>
Dublin City 6,954 60 Effective
Grand Heights City 8,027 25 Excellent
Upper Arlington City 9,012 12 Excellent
Worthington City 7,288 47 Excellent
Plain Local 7,427 45 Effective
</pre></td></tr></table>
Dublin City: This is the exclusive town that Jack Nicklaus built. His Memorial Golf Tournament lies in the very heart of the district.
Grandview Heights City: Old upscale Italian community near downtown. I guess folks here just believe in a good education.
Upper Arlington City: Home to more lawyers, doctors, and professionals than anywhere else in Franklin County.
Worthington City: Pretty standard middle class stuff here.
Plain Local: Home of Les Wexner who founded The Limited. Home to the "new" rich of central Ohio.

As for me, I graduated for a Columbus public school in 1974. About three years before forced-busing went into effect (and the great "racial" conspiracy began :lol: ).


p.s. Oh yeah, Bexley is a very old place... and home of the Governor, most high ranking government types, very old money etc...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-04-21 20:32 ]</font>

Well it looks like Rush is right (never thought I'd say that, but I'm referring to Brian Rush, NOT Rush Limbaugh here!) - we'll need to have a comparison of the scope he described; whatever the results say, it seems, there's *ALWAYS* some mitigating factor to explain it away, so we'll need to compare the virtually identical districts (know of any?) before drawing any conclusions (i was merely using your data to base mine!)

On 2002-04-21 23:39, Brian Rush wrote:


No, but I would agree that Democrats do.


If they really were liberals, they wouldn't be delivering that rusting pail of garbage. But Democrats are no longer liberals. That's the problem, and the real reason why Al Gore tied the 2000 election. If he'd been a liberal, he'd have slam dunked it.

Doubtful, Bush would have run a successful campgain painting Gore as a extermist.

On 2002-04-21 23:22, Susan Brombacher wrote:
I just got back from visiting my father in Dallas, Texas, and if airport security is any indication, we are definitely in a 4T! Wow--airports are practically under martial law.

First of all, there is a huge list of things you cannot bring onto the airplane and ways you cannot behave--for example, you can't bring on anything sharp, even a nail clipper, pocket knife or sewing needles, any metal containers (I had to nix the idea of brownies in a tin as a gift!), and of course you can't make jokes about terrorism. My daughter is an asthmatic and I had to take her metal-encased inhaler in our carryon bag, and this was carefully inspected at the check-in area.

You are ID'd again before boarding the plane, but this may have always been done--I am not a frequent flyer so I don't really know.

Other changes were the ARMED MARINES flanking the inspection area, very careful inspection of ID, and extra careful inspection of all carry-on items. You are not allowed to have any friends or relatives accompany you to the gate; once you're approved they must leave you at the inspection/check-in area.

If you're over a certain age, you get frisked and then scanned after they check all your carryon baggage. They check EVERYTHING--on both my flights a uniformed guard (it seems they use women to check women, and men to check men) scans everything from your metal underwire bra supports to the bottoms of your shoes. Every part of your body is scanned. My kids were checked but not scanned, so I think this procedure is probably only used on adults (and maybe teens). If you go out to smoke a cigarette (except for the occasional airport bar, you cannot smoke anywhere in an airport), you must LEAVE THE BUILDING and go through the whole procedure again.

First, off, THANKS for breaking the monotony of 'Crossfire', with Brian Rush and Marc Lamb. :lol:

I can see your point, yet I've heard some 3T remarks about how airport security is being handled recently. Stuff like some sort of PC requirement to check way more people who are obviously not in any way, shape or form dangerous than the ones who are potentially very dangerous. So that the potentially dangerous ones don't feel like their rights are being violated, of course. This may not hold true at all US airports, but it still sounds rather 3T to me.

William, your statistical analysis was great, but with one fatal flaw: Assuming all things being equal, with regards to education. This is the great liberal fallacy, and one that creates the false notion that money is the answer.

If all things being equal were actually true, then all Columbus taxpayers would have to do to improve their education rating from "Academic Emergency" to Bexley's "Excellent" would be to increase their per student expenditure from the paltry $6,879 to 7,746. Now that's not a bad deal is it? All the city fathers have to do is convince these folks to fork over a mere 12% more money and your public school system, now in a state of emergency, will be excellent!

But, in reality, all things are not equal with regards to education. It takes intensely concerned parents, motivated kids, a competitive academic environment, strong "no excuse" leadership, tough teachers, and. of course, a cirriculum based geared not to the lowest denominator, but to the very highest standard of excellence.

Sadly, liberals don't believe in that kind of stuff anymore.


Mr. Rush writes,
"If they really were liberals, they wouldn't be delivering that rusting pail of garbage."

I am curious... Who was the last liberal that America sent to the White House, in your mind. And who is your favorite liberal currently serving in Congress, Mr. Rush?

I did a linear regression on the school data Marc posted. The regression line was

Ranking = 6.1 - 0.56*M r = 0.51

It is significant at the >98% level.

M is the money spent in $thousands. Ranking is 1 = excellent, 2 = effective, 3 = cont improvement, 4 = academic watch, 5 = academic emergency. On average an $1,800 increase in spending nets a one unit increase in ranking.

So there is a correlation between money spent and outcome which is not really surprising. I wonder if we controlled for student body composition (i.e. what kind of students does each district work with) in the various districts whether we would get an even tighter correlation. Marc, would it be possible to get percent white or percent black compositions for these districts?

Currently we measure school performance by the *absolute* outcome of achievement tests. But this is a rather silly way to measure *school* performance.

Suppose you have two classrooms, one filled with kids like my stepdaughter (or me) and the other filled with kids like my daughter.

You could have a chimp teach the first class and they would rack up 95+ percentiles on the tests at the end of the year. The second class would perform poorly on the standardized tests even if they had the very best possible instruction. The 60+ points of IQ difference between the two classrooms makes a difference, although to hear education experts talk you'd think it was irrelevant.

Quality of instruction is largely irrelevant to students like this (as far as standard testing goes). To bring out the *optimal* performance from very bright students does require high-quality instruction, but in general such students can easily ace standardized tests regardless of the quality of their instruction.

A much better way to assess school performance would be to test students at the beginning and at the end of the term and calculate the *gain* in absolute achievement. This would measure what schools actually *do* rather than what kind of students they start out with.

Under this system my daughter would have ranked very high in grades 5-6 when she was *gaining* about 1.5 grade levels in reading per year.

"First, off, THANKS for breaking the monotony of 'Crossfire', with Brian Rush and Marc Lamb."

I must confess here, that a statement like this (even with a :lol: ) increases my admiration and respect level for folks like Mr. Rush, even though I disagree with him on most everything.

This kind of Gee, can't we all just get along moderate, lukewarm crap makes me want to just...

Well, Jesus has this kind of problem with his own people:

I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. --Revelation 3:16


Do feel free to visit any of the other hundreds of less argumentative threads any time, sir, and keep you moderate, lukewarm nose out of any one you might see me posting in. :smile:

Marc:

Who was the last liberal that America sent to the White House, in your mind. And who is your favorite liberal currently serving in Congress, Mr. Rush?

The answer to the first question would be Richard M. Nixon, who governed like a liberal even though he didn't talk like one. Or if you want to exclude Tricky Dick on grounds of personal belief not expressed in policy, then LBJ.


I'd have to think a bit about the answer to the second one. There are a number of possibilities, who do not, alas, include my Congresscritter at this time. (But one of my Senators, Barbara Boxer, does qualify -- still, I'm not prepared to say she's my "favorite" off the top of my head.)

Marc Lamb wrote:

David'47 writes,

In democracies, governments respond to "the people". Where I live "the people" are about as right of center as they can be ... without falling off their flat earth, that is.

Let's restate that shall we...

In democracies, private corporations respond to "the customer". Where I live "the people" are about right all of the time... without question as far as the businessman is concerned, that is.

Private corporations have virtually nothing to do with democracy. They are oligarchal entities that prefer as much isolation from scutiny as they can achieve, and are willing to go to great lengths to achieve it.


And as far as the people being "right" in the minds of corporate interests, please tell me why those corporations feel the need to mount exceedingly expensive PR efforts to dissuade "the people" from holding views they find repugnant? They even hide their corporate identities by creating pro-consumer or pro-environmntal sounding entities to "represent" them.

At anyrate, judging from your response about where you live (and how you think your neighbors think), it is quite clear that you are a bigot. :smile:

Am I a bigot for having very little patience with the overtly narrowminded? Well, unlike those I have criticized, I don't publically berate people for behaving in an "inappropriate manner", when that actually means "other than the way we think you should". I don't ask nor do I expect others to practice my beliefs, yet "praying in public" as the local majority believes is "proper" is a ubiquitous practice in my neck of the woods.


I've spent time in Ohio, and the state is predominently conservative, yet is a virtual Paris France in comparison to Lynchburg Virginia. If you doubt it, y'all come visit.


_________________
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together :wink:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David '47 on 2002-04-22 08:31 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David '47 on 2002-04-22 08:36 ]</font>

Hi!

I think, for the most part, I responded to all that Mike Alexander posted when I stressed, "But, in reality, all things are not equal with regards to education. It takes intensely concerned parents, motivated kids, a competitive academic environment, strong "no excuse" leadership, tough teachers, and. of course, a cirriculum geared not to the lowest common denominator, but to the very highest standard of excellence."

But he also wonders,
"Marc, would it be possible to get percent white or percent black compositions for these districts?"

I'll do better than that. The following pretty much sums up the problem in the Columbus school district (I'd be interested in hearing how many of you out there agree with this six-term councilman.)


<FONT SIZE="+2">BOYCOTT COLUMBUS </FONT>
And Say NO to Oppression and Racism

A cross section of local citizens in Columbus, Ohio have banded together, and organized a nation wide campaign to boycott that city's convention and visitors' bureau.

In an open letter to thousands of companies, organizations, and individuals, THE FRIENDS OF FREEDOM AND JUSTICE are seeking redress to long standing grievances regarding the injustices that have been done to the city's school district. The following is the text of the open letter.

"BOYCOTT COLUMBUS"

And Say NO to Oppression and Racism

Dear Friend of Freedom and Justice:

We in Columbus, Ohio, need your help to right a grave wrong!

The Columbus City School District has been deliberately downgraded to the status of a third-world colony under the control of a racist and oppressive establishment. Judgeing by how the power elites have manipulated our schools, the only conclusion is that their overall purpose is to ensure that city kids get a greatly inferior education to that the suburban kids enjoy. Like the European colonization policies of the last century, the end result for Columbus is the strict and unforgiving maintenance of white supremacy. Let's let the facts speak for themselves: Here is how they did it in what is supposed to be a progressive city.

Prior to the implementation of so-called desegregation and forced racial busing, the masters of Columbus (they prefer to be called "Titans") convinced the district to implement a policy that required the dispersal of all the black teachers. Since there were very few in the first place, only a very small percentage of black teachers remained in each school. School staffs then became overwhelmingly white, and a large number of the white majority live in suburbia.

With the implementation of so-called desegregation, the local real estate brokers and developers began to encourage white citizens to leave the city school district for the new developments in the growing suburbs. They also vigorously discouraged first-time home buyers from locating in the city school district, always invoking the specter of the racial arrangement ushered in by so-called desegregation. Years of manipulation worked their evil magic: where once the district enrolled 110,000 pupils, 77 percent of whom were white, the Columbus schools now have only 64,000 students enrolled, of whom 60 percent are black. The stage was set for a dramatic change in the allegiance citizens should feel to the youth of Columbus, and a new way of thinking entered into the district's staff.

One example of the new mentality inspired by the new racial arrangement of staff speaks volumes. Just before systemwide desegregation began, the teachers' union, led by John Grossman, invited the county prosecutor to provide all its building representatives with a "crash course on prosecuting students for assault." The artificially heightened fears and prejudices of a "suburban staff" resulted in large-scale suspensions, expulsions, detentions, retentions, negative tracking, and push-outs and drop-outs of mainly black students, far out of proportion to their numbers in the school population.

In 1985, Judge Robert M. Duncan released the Columbus City School District from the court's jurisdiction*. In that year, the district saw the highest rates in its history of suspensions, expulsions, and other discipline measures leveled against black children. Duncan was replaced by the same county prosecutor George C. Smith who trained the teachers' union representatives to prosecute students for assault.

Just three years later, the downtown power brokers engineered the hiring of a new superintendent -- the very mean-spirited Ron Etheridge of Savannah, Georgia. Immediately after his arrival, he set about the brutal removal of 15 of the district's highest-level administrators, including well respected assistant superintendents, area directors, and supervisors. Aided by union boss John Grossman, Etheridge dismantled the district's department of state and federal programs and its 12-member reading department and fired some of the district's most talented and effective supervisory personnel.

After the local citizenry, wearied of Etheridge's excesses, ran him out of town, the power boys downtown contrived the appointment of the district's first black superintendent. When after a short time it became clear that he was unqualified, they packed him off to the Ohio State University (where he enjoyed an embarassingly short tenure) and forced their board-majority to install another black man as superintendent. Although this man, Larry Mixon, did not have his superintendent's certificate at the time, he had what the power brokers needed to finish Etheridge's job of dismantling the administrative infrastructure. Quite simply, there were still too many seasoned and just administrators who had been through the desegregation process and who knew the difference between what's right and what's wrong for children. To protect teachers' and silence the students' rebellion against racist and unfair treatment, the city and Mixon stationed uniformed, armed police officers in each high school. Next Mixon's 1996 reorganization uprooted the district entirely and assured that there was no one in a position of authority to object to the next initiatives from the power elite.

Earlier this year, another unjust scheme on the part of the Columbus Chamber of Commerce, The Ohio State University, and the school board's white majority was exposed. This unholy alliance of selfish interests identified 11 Columbus schools located in a corridor stretching from the downtown "Short North" redevelopment, continuing through the university area, and extending to the residential area known as Clintonville. Under the auspices of The Ohio State University, these schools are to become special charter schools separated from other Columbus schools; They will be sheltered in a "city within a city," designed "to attract white people back to the city" but surgically isolated from the larger Columbus community. In that new urban culture there will be sharp distinctions: As the nasty downtown-Columbus lunchtime joke runs, the suburban and "urban gentry" kids will work in the skyscrapers by day and the city kids will clean them by night. But one last move remained before the powerful could finally lay claim to our schools for their own use and assure urban kids a bleak and oppressed future.

That opportunity came when the Ohio Department of Education released its first "Report Card" on the 611 school districts in the state. Of the 16 districts in Franklin County (Greater Columbus), the Columbus City School District was dead last. More than a quarter century of scheming and sharp practices had paid off. The cynical downtown boys had triumphed in creating a district that no one could support.

The great Frederick Douglass was right: "Find out how much oppression a people are willing to take," he warned, "and you know exactly how much they're going to get." We, the Friends of Freedom and Justice, have had enough. We, therefore, are enlisting the help of all who believe in freedom, in equality of opportunity, and, most importantly, in simple justice. We have repeatedly asked the power elite to do the right thing. Sadly, they won't listen to reason or to their hearts. But they may listen if their pocketbooks and personal prestige suffer.

If you or any of your family or friends belong to a church group, service organization, professional society or trade association that holds conferences or conventions, we earnestly request that you not consider Columbus, Ohio, as your choice city. If your organization has already planned to come here, we ask that you cancel such plans.

The history and conditions we've described represent only some of our legitimate grievances. But foremost among them has been the malign neglect that has caused our schools to collapse and damaged our children. Until such time that the insensitive and visionless masters of this city can be persuaded to support a decent, fair, and equitable school system for the city's children and to refrain from oppression and exploitation for personal gain, we will continue this boycott campaign. With your support, we believe that these people can be made to do the right thing and act justly. Send them a clear message and BOYCOTT COLUMBUS.

Yours very truly, for the cause that needs assistance,

<FONT SIZE="-1">Bill Moss, 5 Term Member, Columbus Board of Education Chair, Board's Community Relations Panel
email: wmoss@columbus.k12.oh.us</FONT>

* Judge Robert M. Duncan is the same US District Judge (appointed by Nixon, Mr. Rush :smile: ) who ordered forced-busing eight years before. Needless to say, it was a dismal failure of good intentions.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-04-22 09:22 ]</font>

On 2002-04-22 07:12, Marc Lamb wrote:


William, your statistical analysis was great, but with one fatal flaw: Assuming all things being equal, with regards to education. This is the great liberal fallacy, and one that creates the false notion that money is the answer.

If all things being equal were actually true, then all Columbus taxpayers would have to do to improve their education rating from "Academic Emergency" to Bexley's "Excellent" would be to increase their per student expenditure from the paltry $6,879 to 7,746. Now that's not a bad deal is it? All the city fathers have to do is convince these folks to fork over a mere 12% more money and your public school system, now in a state of emergency, will be excellent!

But, in reality, all things are not equal with regards to education. It takes intensely concerned parents, motivated kids, a competitive academic environment, strong "no excuse" leadership, tough teachers, and. of course, a cirriculum based geared not to the lowest denominator, but to the very highest standard of excellence.

Sadly, liberals don't believe in that kind of stuff anymore.


Mr. Rush writes,
"If they really were liberals, they wouldn't be delivering that rusting pail of garbage."

I am curious... Who was the last liberal that America sent to the White House, in your mind. And who is your favorite liberal currently serving in Congress, Mr. Rush?

I actually agree with that except for the line about what 'liberals' necessarily do or do not believe... I might want to change the focus slightly (you can make the curriculum and teachers 'tougher' without actually learning anything; my 10th grade English class was as good an example of this as anything! - we just raced thru as many books as possible just fast enough so that 2/3 of the people could get the plot details and more or less only focused on the basic plot details; everything else was more or less an afterthought, but the curriculum was competitive and the teacher was tough, so it's all good, RIGHT?)

<center>DISCLAIMER: Off-subject posting!</center>


Without going through the quote/response process, let me mount my soapbox and insert a comment or two on the use of statistics.


As a subset of a much longer list, here are three very common and fatal errors in the process of statistical analysis:

1. Modeling the Problem: Applying underlying assumptions to an analysis that are demonstrably false is, well, FALSE. Some of these errors are innocent; others, not. The most common mistake is assuming that an underlying distribution exists that doesn't, or selecting one that's wrong for the problem. For example, it's fine to assume that the distribution of intelligence or physical height is Normal, since both are controlled by random factors that lead to such results. It is not responsible to make that assumption about political belief, however. Beliefs are capable of manipulation, and tend to be very "binodal" for issues that are polarizing - like abortion or school vouchers.
2. Identifying Variables: It is a rarity that only one varible affects an issue. Even relatively stright-forward pursuits, like athelic performance, are influenced by many factors including training, physical size, reflexes and at least a hundred others. Mike Alexander did a great job with the school performance analysis, and even identified possible correlations. He also showed that some information was lacking to do a first-rate analysis.
3. Extrapolating Results: This is my pet peeve. Showing that "A" is true does not automatically grant the license to say that "B" is also true ... or false. Again, credit to Mike Alexander for knowing where to draw the line.

My $0.02 on statistical analysis.


... Now, back to our regularly scheduled argument.

_________________
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together :wink:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David '47 on 2002-04-22 10:57 ]</font>

No disclaimer here. :razz:

But according to Mike Alexander (given, I only understood 1/2 the equation with his daughter, who seems exceptionally bright) if Columbus wishes to raise the standard to "Excellent," all they have to do is spend $7,200 more per student ($1,800 x 4 points). Thus Columbus is spending $14,079/student to achieve what Bexley achieves with a mere $7,746.

Well, they tried this in Kansas City and it failed. And, from what I understand, the US Conress is spending over $10,000/student to educate kids in Washington DC. And they're worse than Columbus!