Strong evidence that we could easily be in a more 4T-like period, but I'm going to have to wait until we reach a time that fails the "1999 smell test"... (arguably, Chandra was old news anyway - it was nearly a year! - and we're onto the next bit of 3T amusement)

On 2002-06-07 20:49, Xer of Evil wrote:


You are right on BOTH counts.

XoE

Thanks Xer :grin:

On 2002-06-07 16:18, voltronx wrote:
I don't understand the media reaction to the Chandra Levy murders. The media's take on Osama became so 3T "the created-evil-celebrity" in style and Jihad Johnny was hyped too. Even the skating scandals were played up to sound as "sizzling" as possible. But now that they've found Chandra's body decayed for a long time everyone's just sad. This is really somber and not like the take on the other phenonema. Why are they treating this differently?

Don't jump to conclusions that this is a sign of 4T. You're missing the bigger story.

The bigger story is that the discovery of Miss Levy's body where it was is strong evidence that the media's previous take on the entire affair was false: Condit is innocent (of murder, not of having an affair).

The reason is that Miss Levy's death now clearly fits a pattern followed by a known serial killer operating at the time of her disappearance. This serial killer attacked young women jogging in parks near where her body was found.

In retrospect, associating Levy's disappearance with this serial killer is so obvious that it is scandalous that the police and the media went off on the Condit tangent. That park should have been searched more thoroughly months ago.

Now that associating the death with Condit is untenable, the whole story is more hum-drum and less sensationalistic, and less likely to increase the ratings of news media.

Furthermore, calling public attention to these facts would be embarrassing to the news media.

In my opinion, the news media was only being as bad as we've grown to expect. The real scandal is how bad the police detective work appears to have been. We should certain demand better of the police. Admittedly, they detected clues that Condit was having an affair with Levy, which did render him a suspect, but they should have pursued the serial killer possibility as well. Perhaps they did, but I didn't hear about it.

More evidence that the police investigating the Levy case were AND CONTINUE TO BE shockingly incompetent.

The body should not have been hard to find, yet it took them months to find it. AFTER finding and removing the body, it seems like the police did not thoroughly search the site.

AFTER the removal of the body, people have been free to walk around on the site where the body was found, and they have found other things that might be clues and which the police should have found and removed.

What things? Little things like an empty condom wrapper, some rope, and, oh, CHANDY LEVY'S SHIN BONE. Her left tibia, to be precise.

What sort of evidence technicians are on the D.C. police force? This is astounding!

link

On 2002-06-08 05:30, firemind wrote:
More evidence that the police investigating the Levy case were AND CONTINUE TO BE shockingly incompetent.

The body should not have been hard to find, yet it took them months to find it. AFTER finding and removing the body, it seems like the police did not thoroughly search the site.

AFTER the removal of the body, people have been free to walk around on the site where the body was found, and they have found other things that might be clues and which the police should have found and removed.

What things? Little things like an empty condom wrapper, some rope, and, oh, CHANDY LEVY'S SHIN BONE. Her left tibia, to be precise.

What sort of evidence technicians are on the D.C. police force? This is astounding!

link

Agreed on the police screwing up, unless the body was dumped after they had looked before.
I still think I am right that the media sucks too though. Don't take too much offence at that if you are in the business, I used to work in it, and that's why I know it sucks.

Maybe a noticeable change in the 4T will be the media having some self imposed ethics again.

Maybe.

When I had dinner with Jenny, she said that during the Awakening/Unravelling change there was a long period of overlap. People in lots of places and in lots of ways could and did convince themselves that it was still the Awakening for many years. Yet looking back on it we can all point to around 1981 (give or take) as hailing a sea change. So, she said, this 4T is likely to have 3T elements for a long time to come.

As for the news business, from all I can see and hear the media is definately both aware of the Turning change and in denial about it. Give us a few years to completely shift gears. Large organizations change course slowly and the mainstream media is run by larger organizations than ever before.

On 2002-06-08 16:19, angeli wrote:
When I had dinner with Jenny, she said that during the Awakening/Unravelling change there was a long period of overlap. People in lots of places and in lots of ways could and did convince themselves that it was still the Awakening for many years. Yet looking back on it we can all point to around 1981 (give or take) as hailing a sea change. So, she said, this 4T is likely to have 3T elements for a long time to come.

As for the news business, from all I can see and hear the media is definately both aware of the Turning change and in denial about it. Give us a few years to completely shift gears. Large organizations change course slowly and the mainstream media is run by larger organizations than ever before.

Well said, Angeli. If I may add my $0.02, the situation was similar when the High gave way to the Awakening as well. Once the shock of the JFK assassination wore off, everything seemingly went "back to normal" for awhile, not unlike the 911 aftermath today. My early childhood was still very High-like up to around the 1967-68 period when it became impossible to ignore Vietnam, the urban riots and campus sit-ins on the 6 o'clock news. Even as late as 1970, my life still contained a few First Turning elements such as neighborhood barbeques and block parties.

However, all the signs were there in 1964 that something had changed....the adults were all marginally less hopeful about the future.....music changed DRASTICALLY from doo-wop and crooners to British Invasion and Motown almost immediately after Dallas....preteen and teenage language started becoming much more peppered with slang and the "f-word" was suddenly popular. By 1966 it was no longer considered wise to leave one's door unlocked overnight or while running to the corner store, even though the infamous Boomer/Xer crime wave still hadn't yet kicked in near-suburban New Jersey.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin Parker '59 on 2002-06-08 17:56 ]</font>

The fact is, it is the media that is propagating the lie that 9/11 and its aftermath is a "big crisis." Nothing sells papers like a big crisis. Nothing is better for Bush's popularity either, so he's going to stoke the fires of crisis all he can, by proposing boondoggles like the Homeland Security Dept., declaring new enemies, etc.
It's all a lie, meant to keep us from pursuing the activities that could really free us and lead us into the new world; that is, further pursuing the new awareness and creative opportunities that have opened to us in the 2/3T, that would take us away from mainstream lifestyles and societies, and from the consensus realities that Bush and corporate capitalism depend on.

Nothing leads the people away from growth and liberation faster than a climate of fear, propagated by those who want to maintain the established world order and paradigm.

On 2002-06-08 19:45, Eric A Meece wrote:
The fact is, it is the media that is propagating the lie that 9/11 and its aftermath is a "big crisis." Nothing sells papers like a big crisis. Nothing is better for Bush's popularity either, so he's going to stoke the fires of crisis all he can, by proposing boondoggles like the Homeland Security Dept., declaring new enemies, etc.
It's all a lie, meant to keep us from pursuing the activities that could really free us and lead us into the new world; that is, further pursuing the new awareness and creative opportunities that have opened to us in the 2/3T, that would take us away from mainstream lifestyles and societies, and from the consensus realities that Bush and corporate capitalism depend on.

Nothing leads the people away from growth and liberation faster than a climate of fear, propagated by those who want to maintain the established world order and paradigm.

Sorry Eric, but I can't agree with that. Something DID change on 9/11. I remember driving to work and hearing the news that two planes had been hijacked and one flew into the Trade Center. I thought "Well, that's it, some moron finally f*cked up and crashed into a building". Then just before I got to the office, the news came in that the Pentagon had been hit. The whole day had a feeling of unreality, and it was more like something from a Die Hard movie than real life.

I think something HAS changed, and I am surprised that someone with your intuition to "things mystical" hasn't picked it up.
Call it the collective unconcious, or call it whatever you will, but peoples attitudes are different. People make up the generations and the generations make history, just as history makes the generations. If you don't agree with that, then why keep reading S&H?

There have always been those in politics who have used current events and the emotions sparked by them, including fear, for their benefit. That much may be true. But the left is doing it as much as the right is.

By all means, keep an eye on the administration, that's a good citizen's job,
but don't forget the other party and their wanting to run the big house either.

Peace







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Earthshine on 2002-06-08 20:20 ]</font>

On 2002-06-08 20:12, Earthshine wrote:
Sorry Eric, but I can't agree with that. Something DID change on 9/11. I remember driving to work and hearing the news that two planes had been hijacked and one flew into the Trade Center. I thought "Well, that's it, some moron finally f*cked up and crashed into a building". Then just before I got to the office, the news came in that the Pentagon had been hit. The whole day had a feeling of unreality, and it was more like something from a Die Hard movie than real life.

When I first saw the towers burning after they had been crashed, I thought the picture came out of a Hollywood blockbuster.

Last September 11th a customer who came into the store commented "And we thought we were impregnable." In a way we lost our innocence.

...and the band played on, Eric. And the band played on.

"neee-rer my Goood to theeeee .... nnneee-rer toooo theeeee...."

On 2002-06-08 19:45, Eric A Meece wrote:
The fact is, it is the media that is propagating the lie that 9/11 and its aftermath is a "big crisis." Nothing sells papers like a big crisis. Nothing is better for Bush's popularity either, so he's going to stoke the fires of crisis all he can, by proposing boondoggles like the Homeland Security Dept., declaring new enemies, etc.
It's all a lie, meant to keep us from pursuing the activities that could really free us and lead us into the new world; that is, further pursuing the new awareness and creative opportunities that have opened to us in the 2/3T, that would take us away from mainstream lifestyles and societies, and from the consensus realities that Bush and corporate capitalism depend on.

Nothing leads the people away from growth and liberation faster than a climate of fear, propagated by those who want to maintain the established world order and paradigm.

That all may be true Eric, but the fact is that spiritual "growth and liberation" don't occur in Crises or even in Unravellings. They happen during Awakenings, of which there will not be another until sometime around the year 2050. Unfortunately (or is that 'fortunately'), my ashes will have long sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic by then.

Here is an article that talks about the national mood.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0605-01.htm

The Business of America Is Out of Control

"Consumers are mad, and some are declaring petty war against the mighty corporation, against the shenanigans, the double-dealing, the get-rich-quick schemes, the fraud, the self-serving deals--the corporate wrongdoing that splashes into the daily headlines and mocks American values." --John Balzar, LA Times


Now let me see if I got this right, "Consumers are mad," according to Mr. Balzar, so they have decided on "declaring petty war against the mighty corporation" and their "shenanigans" by "muttering about the world going to pot" in hardware stores, "quietly rebelling" by "making a mess" of the stores, like putting "paint brushes" where "circuit boxes" should be; "drapery rings are tossed in with wire nuts." And in a "brazen" display of abject rebellion toward "corporate greed" run amuck, grocery store customers are "squeezing hard" lots of "avocados and bananas" "with the intent to ruin them."

All these things the American people are doing to show their disgust with "corporate wrongdoing" that "mocks American values"!

My, oh my, certainly it can't get any worse that this. :smile:

But I do wonder what kind of "values" do the American people hold when respect for what belongs to their neighbors amounts to a sense of entitlement to what belongs to their neighbor.

Are these your kind of values, Mr. Reed?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-06-09 13:10 ]</font>

I happened to get ahold of some Alan Jackson / Martina McBride tickets and went to the show last night.

About a third of this crowd of new englanders were die-hard fans, a third were open-minded folk simply amused but not blown away, and third seemed hell bent on ridiculing the spectacle and its participants. (I must have been within earshot of at least 20 incest / cousin marrying jokes amongst the crowd.)

Anyway, there were lots of american flags everywhere, and the mood of the performers was definitely 4T. The audience gave off mixed vibes, as you can imagine. Some thought all the patriotism was bologna, some ate it up like salami. It is clear we are not in the thick of the turning but at the cusp.

Then again the whole turning thing could be hogwash. Haven't yet made up my mind.

That all may be true Eric, but the fact is that spiritual "growth and liberation" don't occur in Crises or even in Unravellings. They happen during Awakenings, of which there will not be another until sometime around the year 2050. Unfortunately (or is that 'fortunately'), my ashes
will have long sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic by then.

That is an unfortunate illusion gained by reading S&H I guess, whether they intended it or not.

Of course spiritual growth occurs in all turnings. If people are not engaged in that, why are they here on Earth at all? Turnings are not monolithic uniform blocks when only one orientation prevails.

Certainly in Unravellings people are busy developing the new ideals and goals and cultural visions gained in the Awakening (although we have done a lousy job of this so far, since we have been so badly distracted). And even in Crises people pursue spiritual growth, because people always do that. Since we have not developed sufficiently to have the needed impact during the Crisis, to move us forward into the new age, we need to continue developing spiritually and culturally. And so the 3T must continue. And so it will.

People will understand this. They will not be distracted by the fear mongering of the media and the administration. A Crisis cannot be continued to be manufactured out of so little for much longer.

Remember too that I pointed out, that in a Crisis, people are interested in transforming the country so it can survive and prosper in the future. 9/11 does not call for such a transformation; only for a protective response. It doesn't call for a decades-long war; the threat is not great enough. Osama bin Laden is not a Hitler, or a King George, or even a Simon Legree or a Jefferson Davis for that matter. Osama can knock down a few buildings, but that does not threaten the survival of America. And singing God Bless America and waving flags does not constitute a Crisis Mood. Think about those things before deciding what turning we are in.

No, nothing has really changed. Patriotism is nothing new at all. People waved flags during the Gulf War too. They waved flags during Vietnam. There is nothing new about patriotism. No, that is the old way. The true Crisis Mood will come when the real threats to our nation are realized, and those are due to the way our country is currently organized, and for whose benefit. 9/11 brings out none of that, as far as I can see. Unless these current investigations turn up something that really focuses us on changing our OWN society. Just as all the previous crises focused on that.

When the media and politicians focus on the needed radical transformations we need to make, then we will be in 4T-- and not before! Such changes are NOT about making the CIA and FBI more effective and more intrusive, or being more careful about who we let cross our border. Those are not radical transformations in the structures and moral practices of our nation!

A crisis mood will involve the people deciding to change our society, not merely to protect it from a few mad bombers. Not by going backwards to an even more fearful and insular mood. Not by realising that "there is real evil in the world." That is all fear-mongering crap.

Don't be fooled by it. It is up to us not to be swayed by fear, or to be distracted yet again from what we need to do in these times, as we have been so often. And that is to create and develop our new global village culture and civilization. So don't forget that folks, and get on with it. That is the only legitimate business before us. And it will continue to be so through the Crisis, even though during said Crisis we will need to change the structures of our civilization to reflect our new vision in order to survive and prosper. But we can't do that if we forget the vision; nor what needs to be done.

_________________
Keep the Spirit Alive,
Eric Meece

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eric A Meece on 2002-06-09 15:19 ]</font>

On 2002-06-09 15:16, Eric A Meece wrote:

That all may be true Eric, but the fact is that spiritual "growth and liberation" don't occur in Crises or even in Unravellings. They happen during Awakenings, of which there will not be another until sometime around the year 2050. Unfortunately (or is that 'fortunately'), my ashes
will have long sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic by then.

Don't be fooled by it. It is up to us not to be swayed by fear, or to be distracted yet again from what we need to do in these times, as we have been so often. And that is to create and develop our new global village culture and civilization. So don't forget that folks, and get on with it. That is the only legitimate business before us. And it will continue to be so through the Crisis, even though during said Crisis we will need to change the structures of our civilization to reflect our new vision in order to survive and prosper. But we can't do that if we forget the vision; nor what needs to be done.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eric A Meece on 2002-06-09 15:19 ]</font>

"The only ligitimate business before us"?
Who died and made you king?

Thank you for demonstraiting exactly the kind of paranoid control freak attitude that S&H warn us is the very worst of the Prophet blueprint.

Hey all you 4Ters, here your real Gray Champion! :lol:

The French look like they are giving up on divided government. Chirac's party may win control because the French voters are tired of "nothing getting done."

If that is not a sign of the Turning, nothing is.

On 2002-06-08 21:30, Kevin Parker '59 wrote:
(snip)
They happen during Awakenings, of which there will not be another until sometime around the year 2050. Unfortunately (or is that 'fortunately'), my ashes will have long sunk to the bottom of the Atlantic by then.

Hey, Kevin, don't give up on the next Awakening. First of all, nonagenarians are the fastest growing demographic group. In 2050, you might be a feisty ninety-year-old. Second, assuming that 4T began 9/11/01 and turnings last 18 years, the next 2T could begin around 9/11/37, in which case you would be a sprightly 78-year-old! :grin:

I hope I stick around until the next Awakening. Although I'll probably be appalled at what "kids these days" are up to!

_________________
Living begins not on the day you are born
but on the day you recognize your consciousness -- Prem Rawat

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jenny Genser on 2002-06-10 09:45 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jenny Genser on 2002-06-10 09:46 ]</font>

"First of all, nonagenarians are the fastest growing demographic group. In 2050, you might be a feisty ninety-year-old. Second, assuming that 4T began 9/11/01 and turnings last 18 years..."

You folks need to face the fact that if "turnings last 18 years" then there is no such thing as a "turning," but rather time and history are become a mere swirling dust bowl of chaos void of any meaning whatsoever.

Come on now, it time to face the music, folks.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-06-10 10:00 ]</font>

"The only ligitimate business before us"? Who died and made you king?

Who gave you any orders?

Thank you for demonstraiting exactly the kind of paranoid control freak attitude that S&H warn us is the very worst of the Prophet blueprint.

I merely told the truth. You can label it as you wish.

don't give up on the next Awakening

The point is, why give up on today???

Why give up on today?


That's what you do when you say we have to wait now until 2050 to do the things we all know we came on earth to do, and instead have to focus on mere survival.

I'm afraid the S&H vision of the future is flawed.

It is correct as far as it goes. Yes we face a crisis, and another awakening will occur someday. And they DID make the oft-ignored point that the ideas of the Awakening will be the stuff out of which the next high is made. But the "golden age high" following the crisis they offer and describe is totally unappealing; besides which, it is nonsense, because turnings do not repeat themselves so exactly as they claim.

Giving us their vision of a repeating cycle of four phases, they have to treat the four phases as returns of identical moods in order to draw their picture for us. And that is the only prediction they can make from that model-- that a crisis mood, a high mood and an awakening mood will recur that is just like the previous ones.

But the past and the future are more complicated than that four-phase model. There are more cycles going on, and cycles do not repeat themselves exactly because humanity moves on. You need to put the four-phase cycle in wider context in order to make sense of it.

The next high will not be like the 1950s, and "pepperland" will not recur in the 2050s, merely to fade away again into another unravelling of splintering and distraction.

No, "pepperland" was a sign of the deep changes that need to happen. They will happen, or we will repeat the same old ticky-tacky dehumanized mechanized culture that has gotten us into our current mess. And various people have realized and spoken this truth during our 3T as well, couched in the styles of the 1980s and 90s.

What kind of a future world will it be, if it is devoid of human feeling? More mechanized institutions with no place for community and imagination; love or sensuality or sensibility? What we focus on, is what we will create. If we focus only on nuts and bolts economic and political issues in our looming "crisis," that is all we will have to feed us when the crisis is over. Another world made only of nuts and bolts. With a few people hoping for yet another Awakening, which will in turn just be ignored again and not made the basis for the needed changes in American society.

The result will be a rapid spiral downward. We decline if we do not advance.

Now is the time to envision and create a world made of more than nuts and bolts.

As Marc said, it's time to face the music folks. Better yet, listen to the music within you.

If you don't like my somewhat overzealous and inflammatory prophet-like words, perhaps you can dig this kinder and gentler statement that Robert Reed the madscientist found:
(not saying it's gospel or anything; I have never heard of this movement)

we will challenge the lack of a spiritual dimension in the agendas of our allies in progressive social change movements. That gap has allowed the Right to present itself as the force that cares about spiritual issues. And the Left's failure to address spirituality has led many to believe their hunger for a larger framework of meaning and purpose must be separated from their involvement with social transformation ...

The Tikkun Community starts from this fundamental recognition: The sources of external injustice, suffering, and ecological numbness are to be found not only in economic and political arrangements, but also in our alienation from one another, in our inability to experience and recognize ourselves and each other as holy, in our inability to respond to the call of the universe which bids us to deeper levels of consciousness and love, and in our inability to overcome our own egos and see ourselves as part of the Unity of All Being.

We need a spiritual consciousness along with a political consciousness if we are to heal and transform the world.

Whole statement at:
http://www.lrna.org/league/PT/PT.200...002.01.11.html

_________________
Keep the Spirit Alive,
Eric Meece

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eric A Meece on 2002-06-10 13:38 ]</font>