I do think such sentiement in this article could be deemed post-seasonal in a few years time.

P. J. O'Rourke: Accountants finally sexy

31jul02

CORPORATE corruption endangers everything in which we have, over the past many years, invested our time, effort, and money ? particularly Republican control of the House of Representatives. And Americans' superannuation plans aren't doing so well either. In this period of gloom ? with the Left seeking to make hay from capitalist foibles and our own capitalist foibles reduced in value to bales of ditto ? it behoves us to look for a moment at the bright side of corporate corruption.

That is, assuming there's any corruption. It may be semantics. When senators and representatives get together in Congress to fix prices on prescription drugs, they're national heroes. When pharmaceutical company chief executives get together on the golf course to fix prices on prescription drugs, they're indicted.
But if corporate corruption does exist, it has benefits as well as liabilities. Auditing scandals will no doubt improve the sex lives of accountants. Bean counters were previously thought to be drab and unattractive creatures. Now accountants are considered cute ? by their fellow prison inmates.

Potentially, our own sex lives also are improved. Numerous senior executives' trophy wives will soon be running around unattached. We wouldn't have stood a chance with these women before the legal bills arrived and the skinny blondes got poor.

Corporate corruption has ecological merits. It's helping to preserve that species known as Democrats ? thought to be endangered as recently as the year 2000. Democrats are an important part of the Washington ecosystem. Extinction of Democrats would lead to serious disruption in the food chain. We of the bloodthirsty right-wing press would be forced to rely for our prey solely on rogue Republican John McCain.

And there's more. Suddenly our children think we're hip. Gangsta rap is popular with today's teens, as is dressing in prison garb and acting and speaking as if one belonged to the Crips, the Bloods or some other criminal organisation. The subculture of felons is in great vogue among adolescents. Enron, WorldCom, Tyco and so forth allow us Republicans to say to America's young people: "We be thugs." The Republicans may capture the youth vote at last.

Finally, corporate corruption has brought me hope about my career. Capitalism is about adding value. I am a capitalist. But I don't have any value to add. This is my one objection to capitalism. However, I'm also a journalist, so I do know how to lie. Thanks to the peculations of the past few months, I've realised that, in the capitalist system, I can add value, too.

One last cheering thought: Corporate corruption gives al-Qa'ida, Hezbollah and other Muslim radicals second thoughts about messing with the US. If we'll screw our own grandmothers in the stock market, God knows what we'll do to them.

P. J. O'Rourke is a contributor editor of The Weekly Standard in Washington, from which this article is reprinted.

On 2002-07-30 10:24, justmom wrote:

I guess I could agree with your ignorance if you wanted to hold "the Christian God" accountable for everything that happens on our planet.

You mean He's not? I thought He was the Omnipotent, the Almighty. He created everything, didn't He? Wrote a great book, too, which I happen to admire.

On 2002-07-30 19:14, Croaker'39 wrote:

On 2002-07-30 10:24, justmom wrote:

I guess I could agree with your ignorance if you wanted to hold "the Christian God" accountable for everything that happens on our planet.

You mean He's not? I thought He was the Omnipotent, the Almighty. He created everything, didn't He? Wrote a great book, too, which I happen to admire.

'Fraid not Froggie. Apparently we have this thing called free will that lets us act like morons on our own. :smile: - At least that is the theory.

By the way, how's Miss Piggy? :grin:

On 2002-07-30 19:14, Croaker'39 wrote:

On 2002-07-30 10:24, justmom wrote:

I guess I could agree with your ignorance if you wanted to hold "the Christian God" accountable for everything that happens on our planet.

You mean He's not? I thought He was the Omnipotent, the Almighty. He created everything, didn't He? Wrote a great book, too, which I happen to admire.

What a warped vision of God you have Croaker. Don't you know about Satan? Is God responsible for Hitler? Stalin? Ho Chi Mhin?
Creator, yes. Omnipotent, yes. Global scapegoat, no. That book He wrote that you admire, did he say we had free will or did he say we are pre progammed robots? If God is responsible for things like mine cave ins. If God is responsible for all of the atrocities of mans free will. If it's all God. Why would you send money to charities? Why would you pray? Why would you try to help the hurting, the lost, the suffering?
If God's responsible?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: justmom on 2002-07-30 19:51 ]</font>

On 2002-07-30 05:55, Croaker'39 wrote:

Christian confusion: Why do they THANK God for saving the coal miners in Pennsylvania but ignore His obvious mischief in causing the mine shaft to flood in the first place? It's like me thanking my wife for helping me endure the problems she inevitably brings into my otherwise untroubled life.

Because anything He does is by defintion not mischief. God decides the outcome of everything, and Christians are thanking Him for deciding that the miners live.

It's true that God is omnipotent. But He, for the most part, based on past experience, chooses to let the natural laws He established work. He also permits our free will to operate. He doesn't have to, but He does.

In this case, God's will was that the miners live, and the rescue efforts be successful. Had there been no rescue efforts, it is probable that the miners would have died, so human free will operated.

Had He decided that the effort must fail, however, that does not mean he owes explanations or apologies.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HopefulCynic68 on 2002-07-30 22:42 ]</font>

If I dig deep pits in my back yard, put loose sod over them, invite the neighborhood kids over to play, and don't move an inch to help them when they fall in, is that evil?

On 2002-07-30 23:26, alias wrote:
If I dig deep pits in my back yard, put loose sod over them, invite the neighborhood kids over to play, and don't move an inch to help them when they fall in, is that evil?

Yes, but you are not God.

Yes, and I would never do that. So do I have a greater moral standard than God? He is setting a bad example for those of us trying to live by the Golden Rule. :smile:

Yes, I know that God is GOD, and we can't always understand Him, and He works in "mysterious ways"... But can you see the problem that some people have with the whole concept?

Also, aren't Good and Evil supposed to be absolutes? And God is all Good? How can He commit Evil? Or is it not Evil if God does it?




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: alias on 2002-07-31 02:22 ]</font>

Think of God's relation to Man as Man's relation to lower animals. We don't extend the golden rule to farm animals (we slaughter and eat them). We have even less respect for insects.

So conventional morality applies to the relations between men (and one might argue the relations between celestial beings like angels), but not to the relation between celestial beings (especially God) and men.

Thus it is perfectly moral for Satan to stir up trouble here on earth just as a child might knock over an anthill. It would be immoral for God to act directly against Satan (and he doesn't). Similarly, it is perfectly moral for God to interfere (or not interfere) with human lives as He sees fit.

The story of Job makes the relation between God and Man clear. Here you have essentially a contest between God and Satan where an upright man is subjected to all sorts of nasty things to see if he "breaks". Job doesn't break and God is vindicated.

Afterward Job is restored to health and he gets his life back. But one of the things that was taken away was his children (I think there were 14 if I remember rightly). Afterward I think he gets another set of 14 children, but I don't think they are the same children. At least I didn't think so when I was a kid (and a firstborn son to boot). Obviously God can snuff out the lives of Job's children (or the Egyptians firstborn sons) as a way to visit unpleasantness on the father. The children's lives are of no account--they serve essentially as possessions to be taken away as punishment or given as reward.

All right, I'll get into this. God is a democrat. He knows that power corrupts. Therefore He choses to relinquish power because He has not placed Himself above The Law.
Satan does not get it. He thinks he can intervene and not be corrupted, but as we can see, he has been irretrievably corrupted. I like to think that he did not start out this way, that he had the best of intentions ... but the road to you know where is filled with you know what.
I read a study once on the subject of power and what it does to three different professional types (I think it was judges, doctors and professors). They found that they all tended to begin benign but over time develop contempt for their 'clients'. "He deserves this heart attack because I told him to lose weight but he was just too stupid to do it." Over time they seemed to develop a sadistic bent. This is the bad thing about power, we begin to think we are special, we begin to think that we are above the law, we become sadists, we become evil.
This is one of the reasons that I like Geo Washington. Because he had the good sense to relinquish power.
All this is not to say that God is powerless. I like to think that He does occasionally (and very very carefully) intervene. But He did not save those miners, He was there for them and the ones that saved them and the ones that fell short. He is there for us in that we can tap into His power and thereby clarify our directions and strengthen our will.
Of course I could be wrong about this ... it is just God's revelation to me. And it works for me. Just as your revelations are okay and work for you. It isn't the revelations that are perfect. It is God that is.

All right, I'll get into this. God is a democrat. He knows that power corrupts. Therefore He choses to relinquish power because He has not placed Himself above The Law.
Satan does not get it. He thinks he can intervene and not be corrupted, but as we can see, he has been irretrievably corrupted. I like to think that he did not start out this way, that he had the best of intentions ... but the road to you know where is filled with you know what.
I read a study once on the subject of power and what it does to three different professional types (I think it was judges, doctors and professors). They found that they all tended to begin benign but over time develop contempt for their 'clients'. "He deserves this heart attack because I told him to lose weight but he was just too stupid to do it." Over time they seemed to develop a sadistic bent. This is the bad thing about power, we begin to think we are special, we begin to think that we are above the law, we become sadists, we become evil.
This is one of the reasons that I like Geo Washington. Because he had the good sense to relinquish power.
All this is not to say that God is powerless. I like to think that He does occasionally (and very very carefully) intervene. But He did not save those miners, He was there for them and the ones that saved them and the ones that fell short. He is there for us in that we can tap into His power and thereby clarify our directions and strengthen our will.
Of course I could be wrong about this ... it is just God's revelation to me. And it works for me. Just as your revelations are okay and work for you. It isn't the revelations that are perfect. It is God that is.

In case anybody missed it, the House snuck passage of the Bush people's blatantly unconstitutional "fast track" "after midnight." Hehehe. Nothing has changed. Time to throw them all out. Or better yet, just keep walking your goldfish and ignore them.


Hypocrites in the House:
Corporations Win Again with Midnight Passage of Fast Track

by Tom Stephens

http://www.counterpunch.org/stephens0729.html

On 2002-07-30 19:38, Earthshine wrote:
...

By the way, how's Miss Piggy? :grin:

Earthshine?

Kermit and I have an understanding: he stays out of my pond and I keep clear of his hog farm. Besides, I?m not interested in any cross-species romances?except if Peggy Fleming ever happened to skate my way.

Fast track trade authority has been used before it lapsed in 1994.

In this case, it is just the republican house of reps passing stuff that will probably languish in the senate. Election year stuff. This authority has been around since the 1970s, I believe, and both sides of the aisle have supported it. You can't regard this as a Bush innovation.

Unconstitutional? Only if you regard these trade agreements as "treaties" that require 2/3 of the senate to approve. I think the analysis is that these trade agreements, like losts of agreements with other countries, do not rise to the level of "treaties". Think of the agreements to cooperate in law enforcement. The constitution does not define "treaty".

If you are that much of a strict constructionist, then we'd need to dismantle the New Deal.

Stonewall,

You have been watching the Bush administration so closely, when do you think that they will invade Iraq? September or after the elections?

Lots of reservists getting callups, and a few marines with leave over, right before Labor Day. With Rumsfeld mad about leaks (and then published leaks about 24 different invasion plans), I think that something is going to happen sooner rather than later.

On 2002-07-31 06:18, posy wrote:
All right, I'll get into this. God is a democrat. He knows that power corrupts. Therefore He choses to relinquish power because He has not placed Himself above The Law.
Satan does not get it. He thinks he can intervene and not be corrupted, but as we can see, he has been irretrievably corrupted. I like to think that he did not start out this way, that he had the best of intentions ... BLAH BLAH......All this is not to say that God is powerless. I like to think that He does occasionally (and very very carefully) intervene. But He did not save those miners, He was there for them and the ones that saved them and the ones that fell short. He is there for us in that we can tap into His power and thereby clarify our directions and strengthen our will.
Of course I could be wrong about this ... it is just God's revelation to me. And it works for me. Just as your revelations are okay and work for you. It isn't the revelations that are perfect. It is God that is.

OK Posey, if it works for you..."Whatever"...God's a democrat.
I thought he's a Monarchist.

On 2002-07-31 09:31, monoghan wrote:
Stonewall,

You have been watching the Bush administration so closely, when do you think that they will invade Iraq? September or after the elections?

Lots of reservists getting callups, and a few marines with leave over, right before Labor Day. With Rumsfeld mad about leaks (and then published leaks about 24 different invasion plans), I think that something is going to happen sooner rather than later.

My husband works with a guy whose in the Reserves he's got orders to go to Iraq in 2003.

"This is the bad thing about power, we begin to think we are special, we begin to think that we are above the law, we become sadists, we become evil. This is one of the reasons that I like Geo Washington. Because he had the good sense to relinquish power."

How come you like Fra. Roosevelt?

On 2002-07-31 09:31, monoghan wrote:
Stonewall,

You have been watching the Bush administration so closely, when do you think that they will invade Iraq? September or after the elections?

Lots of reservists getting callups, and a few marines with leave over, right before Labor Day. With Rumsfeld mad about leaks (and then published leaks about 24 different invasion plans), I think that something is going to happen sooner rather than later.

Jesse:

Please take note of this article.
Pull quote--

"The Third Marine Expeditionary Force in California is preparing to have 20,000 Marines deployed in the (Iraq) region for ground combat operations by mid-October," he said. "The Air Force used the vast majority of its precision-guided munitions blowing up caves in Afghanistan. Congress just passed emergency appropriations money and told Boeing company to accelerate their production of the GPS satellite kits, that go on bombs that allow them to hit targets while the planes fly away, by September 30, 2002. Why? Because the Air Force has been told to have three air expeditionary wings ready for combat operations in Iraq by mid-October."

"As a guy who was part of the first Gulf War," said Ritter, who indeed served under Schwarzkopf in that conflict, "when you deploy that much military power forward - disrupting their training cycles, disrupting their operational cycles, disrupting everything, spending a lot of money - it is very difficult to pull them back without using them."

"You got 20,000 Marines forward deployed in October," said Ritter, "you better expect war in October."

On 2002-07-31 08:59, Croaker'39 wrote:

Kermit and I have an understanding: he stays out of my pond and I keep clear of his hog farm. Besides, I?m not interested in any cross-species romances?except if Peggy Fleming ever happened to skate my way.

:lol:

Thanks for the laugh bud

On 2002-07-30 05:55, Croaker'39 wrote:

Christian confusion: Why do they THANK God for saving the coal miners in Pennsylvania but ignore His obvious mischief in causing the mine shaft to flood in the first place? It's like me thanking my wife for helping me endure the problems she inevitably brings into my otherwise untroubled life.

As good an analogy as I've ever seen. Bravo!


... and the response from the X-ians is ...?

_________________
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together :wink:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David '47 on 2002-07-31 14:15 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David '47 on 2002-07-31 14:17 ]</font>

On 2002-07-31 09:31, monoghan wrote:
Stonewall,

You have been watching the Bush administration so closely, when do you think that they will invade Iraq? September or after the elections?

In early 1940, a tired and cynical Smedley Butler canceled a speech for health reasons and told the head of a Republican women's group,


I feel sure there is no use talking any more about this war business. The people of America are fools. If they want to have their children shot in order to keep Franklin Roosevelt on a pedestal, they will just have to do it.

From the July 2002 issue of Chronicles:Vital Signs

"The Costs of War"
by Mr. Clark Stooksbury

On 2002-07-31 14:14, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2002-07-31 09:31, monoghan wrote:
Stonewall,

You have been watching the Bush administration so closely, when do you think that they will invade Iraq? September or after the elections?

In early 1940, a tired and cynical Smedley Butler canceled a speech for health reasons and told the head of a Republican women's group,


I feel sure there is no use talking any more about this war business. The people of America are fools. If they want to have their children shot in order to keep Franklin Roosevelt on a pedestal, they will just have to do it.

From the July 2002 issue of Chronicles:Vital Signs

"The Costs of War"
by Mr. Clark Stooksbury

We are curious, Mr. Saari, as you seem to reside in a place far from the maddening din; What do you think we ought to do? Build walls, post sentrys, seal borders, isolate ourselves from the threat? Shall we trust God, hold vigils night and day? Shall our leaders call for a day, a month, a year of fasting and prayer complete with wholesale deals on sackcloth and ashes?

While the enemy of this land beat their drums, infiltrates our borders with little weapons of mass death, shall we pretend the enemy of our enemy is our friend; And instead open our doors, our hearts, our home to them? Shall we go for even greater freedom, greater liberty as to shout our defience at their chains which intend to enslave us?

What would have us to do, Mr. Saari? We are curious to know.

On 2002-07-31 19:31, Marc Lamb wrote:



We are curious, Mr. Saari, as you seem to reside in a place far from the maddening din; What do you think we ought to do?

On the matter of improving the election chances of the GOP, I would lower taxes (FICA and the excises) to allow the people of America some breathing room.





Build walls, post sentrys, seal borders, isolate ourselves from the threat?

I would enforce the laws of the U.S. on the matter of illegal immigration, giving them a free return to their several homelands. I would explain to my fellow citizens that Iraq is under the thrall of a Progressive; and as wicked as that is many other lands are equally under the thumb of such people (see Zimbabwe, Cuba, etc.). If Iraq's neighbors are content to live with such Progressives I think we should allow them to have at it. If they wish him gone...let them remove him with their sons and their treasure. If the UK is incensed; let Mr. Blair level Bagdahd with his military. If Mr. Sharon is sore; let the Israeli's try out their WMDs.




Shall we trust God, hold vigils night and day? Trust in God is a good idea with or without the vigils

Shall our leaders call for a day, a month, a year of fasting and prayer complete with wholesale deals on sackcloth and ashes? I think they could donate their salaries to the Free Iraq Front if they are concerned...those citizens (the NewsCorpians) who agree would surely follow [Mr. Kristol could donate that Enron check]. As to their diets and habiliment, this might be just the ticket...the bottoms of America increase with each passing day; and the fashions are from the gutter and street it would not be that much of lowering to sackcloth; and ashes would be better than botox for what the Boomer's mirrors reflect.

While the enemy of this land beat their drums, infiltrates our borders with little weapons of mass death, shall we pretend the enemy of our enemy is our friend; And instead open our doors, our hearts, our home to them?

Has Mr. Hussein even applied for a green card? We certainly opened our wallets and gun closet when he had a difficulty with his neighbor to the East and his subjects in the North. So we can pretend again, along those lines, if it will help us to "feel good about ourselves."




Shall we go for even greater freedom, greater liberty as to shout our defience at their chains which intend to enslave us?Would you have us make our own chains and then taunt the world: "Haha we got the manacles on before you could."?

What would have us to do, Mr. Saari? We are curious to know. Delay is life...I would live.

Also,let me congratulate HRH Marc upon the occasion of their elevation.

- "We are curious, Mr. Saari, as you seem to reside in a place far from the maddening din; What do you think we ought to do?"

On the matter of improving the election chances of the GOP, I would lower taxes (FICA and the excises) to allow the people of America some breathing room.

So you're another one of those 'make the old folks eat dog food' kinda cruel, heartless, typical "vast right-wingers:, huh? Have you no shame, no guilt, no humanity left in your rotten, filty bones, sir?

- "Build walls, post sentrys, seal borders, isolate ourselves from the threat?"

I would enforce the laws of the U.S. on the matter of illegal immigration... giving them a free return to their several homelands.

Whoa right there, pal! It is their right as illegals that we make sure there's water waiting for 'em, wherein none flows naturally, as they're invadin' the border. Get a friggin' grip, this is America!

I would explain to my fellow citizens that Iraq is under the thrall of a Progressive; and as wicked as that is many other lands are equally under the thumb of such people (see Zimbabwe, Cuba, etc.). If Iraq's neighbors are content to live with such Progressives I think we should allow them to have at it. If they wish him gone...let them remove him with their sons and their treasure. If the UK is incensed; let Mr. Blair level Bagdahd with his military. If Mr. Sharon is sore; let the Israeli's try out their WMDs.

Uh, one problemo, se?or Saari, it's called "the free flow of oil." They got, and we decided long ago we were gonna be NIMBY about all that stuff. Let 'em pollute their own lands, we said. No oil wells here! Soooo... Yugos are nice, Conastoga wagons, too. What's a little horseshit in the streets anyhow? Until this stupid little lefty idiocy is dealt with... ah, keep on votin' Democrats, folks!

- "Shall we trust God, hold vigils night and day?"

Trust in God is a good idea with or without the vigils

Amen, bro!

- "Shall our leaders call for a day, a month, a year of fasting and prayer complete with wholesale deals on sackcloth and ashes?"

I think they could donate their salaries to the Free Iraq Front if they are concerned... those citizens (the NewsCorpians) who agree would surely follow [Mr. Kristol could donate that Enron check]. As to their diets and habiliment, this might be just the ticket...the bottoms of America increase with each passing day; and the fashions are from the gutter and street it would not be that much of lowering to sackcloth; and ashes would be better than botox for what the Boomer's mirrors reflect.

Now you're wishing ill, that good may come: Nice for when it's time to cut the tree down, but we're just talkin' a little winter here. You ought to know those well; how one longs for spring... sings of such, is optimistic that such will come?

- "While the enemy of this land beat their drums, infiltrates our borders with little weapons of mass death, shall we pretend the enemy of our enemy is our friend; And instead open our doors, our hearts, our home to them?"

Has Mr. Hussein even applied for a green card? We certainly opened our wallets and gun closet when he had a difficulty with his neighbor to the East and his subjects in the North. So we can pretend again, along those lines, if it will help us to "feel good about ourselves."

Uh, Mr. Hussein employs little "green" men with dreams of splendor washed in American blood. I can't blame him for that; He's nuts. But like any such idiot, he is better dead than building weapons that kill Americans, or anyone else for that matter, en masse.

And yes, one less, two less Husseins on earth would make me feel great!

- "Shall we go for even greater freedom, greater liberty as to shout our defience at their chains which intend to enslave us?"

Would you have us make our own chains and then taunt the world: "Haha we got the manacles on before you could."?

Perhaps we really screwed up by not selling Japan that oil (in 1940) they wanted, huh? Is freedom worth defending, upholding, cherishing? If so, what is the price of freedom... at times when it is endangered? I live near a VA Hospital, I see the sign as I pass by... The price of freedom is visible here.

- "What would have us to do, Mr. Saari? We are curious to know."

Delay is life...I would live.

Ten years for old Saddam is long enough... Time to die!

Also,let me congratulate HRH Marc upon the occasion of their elevation.

Ya lost me on this one. :smile:




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-07-31 21:07 ]</font>