Wars reflect turnings
Here's a bit of evidence...
Bush Sr went to war against Saddam Hussein in 1991.
Saddam Hussein is still in power.
Bush Jr, so far has only really gone to war against the Taliban of Afghanistan, and they are out of power.
Re: Bigotry
Originally Posted by posy
Count me in. 8)Touche'! I am of the very same mind. Imagine that. 8)
It's a Republican world, and Jesus is coming! What more evidence do we need for a 4T Armageddon?
Croaker, you got religon???
I got confusion, justmom, I got confusion. What if St. John The Divine was right all along? Every one of those Horsemen are mounted a ready to ride. Holy Smoke!
And the Four Horsemen are not going to ride if the Democrats are in charge?
Neville Chamberlain engaged in that type of thinking. So did Professor Harold Hill with his "think" method.
Hey, monoghan, Harold Hill got results, and the girl to boot! Will there be "Peace In Out Time" when the Prince shows up, ridng a White Horse, as predicted?
Croaker don't worry your little head about it. If you have to use the phrase
"What IF (my emphasis) St. John got it right?"
Well, in that case you'll curse God, take the mark, and won't live to see the peace that comes with the rider on the white horse.
And THAT is "what if...."
The four horsemen?
Let's see: War--check
Famine--check
Plague--check...
What is the fourth horseman anyway?
In any case, looking at these alone, I can see why Europeans during the 14th century thought the end of the world was upon them!
Elisheva Levin
"It is not up to us to complete the task,
but neither are we free to desist from it."
--Pirkei Avot
Re: The four horsemen?
Pestilence.
Re: The four horsemen?
Pestilence. Until something even nastier comes around, plague will do. Maybe smallpox is a good stand-in, since plague already has a horse.Let's see: War--check
Famine--check
Plague--check...
What is the fourth horseman anyway?
It works pretty well today, too. Look how scared we were about a few anthrax infections, knowing how fatal it is.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Re: The four horsemen?
Ah--pestilence. That usually applies to diseases of the domesticated animals and farm crops--such as Hoof and Mouth disease or a blight.Pestilence. Until something even nastier comes around, plague will do. Maybe smallpox is a good stand-in, since plague already has a horse.
It works pretty well today, too. Look how scared we were about a few anthrax infections, knowing how fatal it is.
Plague usually refers to an extremely contagious infectious disease--such as smallpox. Anthrax is not contagious--it is not an infectious disease. You get it from the spores. Fewer people were killed by the anthrax than by pneumonia in a given year.
So we can say: War, famine, smallpox and Mad Cow disease?
This sounds like a good metaphor for any 4th turning.
Elisheva Levin
"It is not up to us to complete the task,
but neither are we free to desist from it."
--Pirkei Avot
Harold Hill got results just as McAuliffe claimed he got results. He did get to hug the girl, but the rest was a fantasy sequence. Maybe I should have said the analogy was more like Peter Pan and "Think pleasant thoughts. Think pleasant thoughts." That is more like the anti war position today.
Re: The four horsemen?
Pestilence is a plague of critters (pests). Keep in mind, the dogma came about before it was understood that plagues are also tied to little critters. Still, keep you eyes peeled for rats, mosquitoes, or Killer Bees :wink:Ah--pestilence. That usually applies to diseases of the domesticated animals and farm crops--such as Hoof and Mouth disease or a blight.Pestilence. Until something even nastier comes around, plague will do. Maybe smallpox is a good stand-in, since plague already has a horse.
It works pretty well today, too. Look how scared we were about a few anthrax infections, knowing how fatal it is.
Plague usually refers to an extremely contagious infectious disease--such as smallpox. Anthrax is not contagious--it is not an infectious disease. You get it from the spores. Fewer people were killed by the anthrax than by pneumonia in a given year.
So we can say: War, famine, smallpox and Mad Cow disease?
This sounds like a good metaphor for any 4th turning.
3T Sign
The amount of attention this scandal involding Winona Ryder in the media is a 3T sign, a rather weak one at that. Interesting sign is if the public is wanting more coverage of these celebrity scandals or just getting sick of them and are paying attention to more important things.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/11/06/ry...ict/index.html
Prosecutor won't seek jail for Ryder
LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) --Shortly after Oscar-nominated actress Winona Ryder was found guilty of shoplifting charges Wednesday, Los Angeles prosecutors said they would not press for a sentence that would include time in jail.
"We will not be asking for jail time," Los Angeles County prosecutor Ann Rundle told reporters outside the courthouse. "We have never asked for jail time in this case. We simply ask Miss Ryder to accept responsibility."
Ryder was found guilty of stealing more than $5,500 worth of merchandise from a Beverly Hills Saks Fifth Avenue store last December.
The six-man, six-woman jury found Ryder guilty of grand theft and vandalism but not guilty of commercial burglary. The decision, announced at 2:45 p.m. ET, came after 5 1/2 hours of deliberations over two days.
The 31-year-old star of "Girl, Interrupted" faces a sentence that could range from probation to three years in prison. Sentencing is scheduled for December 6.
It is unlikely, however, that the actress will face a sentence that would include time in jail. Observers said the judge may be lenient because of Ryder's spotless record.
Additionally, prosecutor Rundle said her office would only seek a sentence that includes probation, community service and restitution to Saks Fifth Avenue.
Ryder was arrested last December 12 as she left the upscale department store in Beverly Hills. Jurors had to decide whether the actress was a thrill-seeking thief as prosecutors suggested or the victim of overzealous department store security guards as the defense argued.
The case had received extensive media attention, partly because most similar cases do not go to trial. Defense attorneys claimed in the trial that prosecutors targeted Ryder because of her celebrity status.
The jury included Peter Guber, the former head of Sony Entertainment. Though Guber said he had never met Ryder, questions were raised about his ability to be impartial because Sony produced three of Ryder's pictures during Guber's tenure.
The judge spoke with Guber and determined he could remain on the jury.
In closing arguments earlier this week, prosecutor Rundle told the jury that the state had successfully proven that Ryder had "intent to steal" because "she brought her own burglary tools," including scissors to remove garment tags, a garment bag, and a plastic bag filled with nothing but tissue paper for wrapping up items.
"She came, she stole, she left," Rundle told jurors.
Defense Attorney Mark Geragos countered that Ryder's accusers were never consistent and blamed the allegations on a conspiracy by Saks staff to protect the store from liability.
"You have seen people change their testimony repeatedly," Geragos said. "There was a collapse of objective evidence and a collapse of proof."
During the trial, prosecution witness Colleen Rainey, the former investigator for Saks' theft-and-loss department, testified she saw Ryder take orange-handled scissors out of her purse and use them to cut out large sensor tags, leaving large holes in designer garments.
Geragos openly wondered to the jury whether someone planted the scissors on Ryder. He also showed video of a store clerk entering a dressing room area with what appeared to be scissors, speculating the shears could have been left there for Rainey to find.
In another development, The Associated Press reported that the California 2nd District Court of Appeal chastised Superior Court Judge Elden Fox for refusing to release the questionnaires that jurors filled out at the start of the trial.
The questionnaires focused on how much the jurors knew about the case and what opinions they had formed about the actress before they were called for jury duty.
The appeals court gave the judge time to correct the error. He was ordered to either release the information by November 7 or file a petition of opposition with the appeals court by November 11.
The court ruling came in response to an appeal filed by The Associated Press, the Los Angeles Times and the Los Angeles Daily Journal.
Ryder has appeared in more than two dozen other movies, including "Mr. Deeds," "Little Women," "Reality Bites" and "Edward Scissorhands."
The actress remains free on bail.
I like Eli's version. Mad Cow disease is a perfect foil for this slightly out of kilter political year.
Can you see them advancing - weaving and bobbing ... and falling down ... and drooling.
It's disgusting, shamelful, funny and sad - all at the same time!
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Re: 3T Sign
Actually, I almost posted about how LITTLE attention it was getting as a 4T sign, because I've heard nothing about it in broadcast media (radio, TV, cable), and only know its going on at all because of Drudge. (Drudge's content is skewed towards celebrity and entertainment news, among other things.)
But I didn't post, because it makes sense that it is getting less attention than, say, the OJ murder trial. After all, it's not a murder case.
So, if it's a sign either way, it is a weak one, as you say.
"To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil." - Charles Krauthammer
The Ryder vedict knocked the election off CNN for awhile today..........I didn't catch what the verdict was though
That's because the Ryder verdict was a lot more important, to the folks at CNN, than a stupid election. :wink:
What now for the Dems?
What now for the Dems?
I mean, obviously the Republicans are not going to be doing a lot of soul-searching. They're going to be all "Let's stay the course." It's the Democrats who will be thinking hard about what to change about themselves.
I've been wondering about that today, and have developed a non-genius prediction.
I think they will conclude that they need to have more clearly defined message than simply being an alternative to Bush and the Republicans, and being "concerned" with what's going on (who isn't), but still voting with the Republicans where it counts.
But does that mean the more "radical" voices among the Dems may come to the fore? I could believe that; it very well might.
But there would also be a reaction to that within the Dems from the "moderate"/RNC/Clinton/"Third Way" people who will argue that the radicals will only make things worse for the Democrats.
Thus, an inter-Democrat struggle could now occur.
For the more radical among the Dems, this may be the time to move.
In the long run, however, I think the American people have pretty much made up their mind about how they feel about socialism, and they aren't for it. If so, a leftward shift for the Dems could be a bad move...
===
To sum up, in a nutshell, my non-genius prediction: the Democrats will look for new leadership...
(Duhh)
...and anyone interested in that role will be positioning him/herself...
"To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil." - Charles Krauthammer
Re: The four horsemen?
Actually, I believe that the fourth horseman is death, upon a pale horse.Let's see: War--check
Famine--check
Plague--check...
What is the fourth horseman anyway?
In any case, looking at these alone, I can see why Europeans during the 14th century thought the end of the world was upon them!
Re: The four horsemen?
Nope, not pestilence, Death.Pestilence.
Re: 3T Sign
I look at it another way Tristan. The jury( ie: common person) found her guilty of a FELONY. I find that telling.
The Press, (disconnect with reality) felt is was of great importance.
Perhaps just to talk about something other than Dem's losses.
Re: What now for the Dems?
I have a suggestion for you. Get rid of the filthy crap in your party.
When they absorb and accept groups like NAMBLA, what do you really expect?
When you accept and absorb people like Jessie " a fighter doesn't stay on the mat" Jackson. A man who being a Reverend, refused to humble himself, what do you expect?
When you accept and absorb people that adamently support abortion up to the day before birth. What do you really expect?
When your party supports (union) dock workers who work 16 hours per week, get full medical and dental, plus sick, vacation etc... AND get paid
100,000+ per year what do you expect?
Perhaps if the leaders of the Democrat party actually got in touch with the
average Joe, then maybe your party has a chance.
Re: What now for the Dems?
and it appears they are both correct.
TK
