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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 212







Post#5276 at 12-20-2002 12:53 PM by Stonewall Patton [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 3,857]
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Michael Ruppert believes that the Bush administration takeover of the Iraqi and Saudi oilfields was all set to go ahead according to plan in November but that global economic opposition has successfully delayed it. Ruppert is confident however that the Bush administration will eventually go ahead with this takeover and further that the longer it is delayed, the more perilous will be the cost to the US.



http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre..._us_balks.html

(Usual disclaimers)



U.S. BALKS AT IRAQI INVASION - GLOBAL ECONOMIC OPPOSITION SUCCEEDING

Risks of A Massive Global Conflict Increase with Each New Successful
Economic Effort to Slow the Empire's Expansion


by Michael C. Ruppert

[? Copyright, 2002, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All rights reserved.
May be copied, distributed or posted on the Internet for non-profit purposes only.]

Dec. 19 2002, 1400 PST, (FTW) - Over the last three months the world has successfully demonstrated that it can delay and obstruct U.S. plans to occupy the oil fields of Iraq and Saudi Arabia. This is both good news and bad news. Today's UN developments regarding Iraq's statement on weapons of mass destruction have served to increase the stakes over U.S. plans to occupy that country. The Empire's feet of clay are rooted in monumental budget deficits, trade deficits, fraudulent financial markets, cheap oil and rigged gold prices. It is on these fronts that the battle for Iraq is now being fought.

The fact that the planned invasion of Iraq did not occur as was originally planned in late September in no way diminishes the accuracy of FTW's prediction that it was planned for that time. In our lead essay for the November issue of FTW -"Wheels Come Off U.S. War Plans for Iraq" - we explained very clearly that resistance on a number of economic and political fronts around the world was having an impact on the Empire's agenda. This is a gratifying and positive development and a sign that there are tactics that are being successfully used to delay United States imperial aggression in violation of international law, basic American values, human rights and common sense.

We believe that a clear example of the backstage economic "negotiations" has been a recent bust-out of world gold prices coupled with near panic buying on some Asian markets as reported today by Reuters. And with gold threatening $350 an ounce (a more than 25% increase this year) U.S. financial powerhouses like J.P. Morgan Chase and Citigroup, which have for decades engaged in manipulation of gold prices, are seriously threatened. Their derivatives bubbles ($40 trillion in the case of Morgan alone) could pop as a result of demands for physical gold reconciliation with paper gold accounts and the U.S. economy could be devastated as a result.

Another case in point is the ongoing Venezuelan crisis, artificially manipulated by the U.S. government which has resulted in what may be unjustified fears of oil price spikes as we enter what may be the worst winter in a decade. As we have previously reported, since World War II, oil price spikes invariably lead to recession and the U.S. economy is teetering at that point now. Recession may, in fact, be too mild a word. The market fundamentals leading to the economic warning we issued last July, just before the Dow Jones fell off a cliff, remain unchanged and the savviest world leaders understand the basic vulnerabilities in the U.S. economy.

Just today, December 19, 2002, as UN Chief Weapons Inspector Hans Blix reported negatively to the UN Security Council on Iraqi compliance, we see continued evidence that behind-the-scenes diplomatic and economic pressures are continuing to slow down U.S. efforts to control the second largest oil reserves on the planet. FTW agrees strongly with former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter who spoke recently in San Francisco and with U.C. Berkeley professor and author Peter Dale Scott that a U.S. invasion of Iraq will - in addition to Iraq's 11% - see a near-simultaneous occupation of key oil fields in Saudi Arabia holding another 25% of all the oil reserves on the planet. Recent revelations that anticipated Caspian Basin reserves have been wildly overestimated only intensify Peak Oil issues for every nation and increase the tensions over what happens in Iraq. Each industrialized nation knows that unless it secures a piece of the Middle East oil pie its survivability in coming oil crises is in question. There are no more significant oil deposits left to find, especially where the Empire has not already marked them with its scent.

Today, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer indicated that there would be no immediate move to invade Iraq or toward unilateral action on the part of the U.S. in spite of statements by U.S. Ambassador to the UN John Negroponte that Iraq was in material breach of UN resolution 1441. It now appears that no additional action will be taken in the Security Council until late January. That would indicate that the soonest that a U.S. invasion could occur would be sometime in February. That would also come perilously close to making it a certainty that U.S. military operations in the region could be continuing as temperatures rise to near-summer levels in the late spring.

These delays are a mixed blessing. While providing evidence that there are strategies that can derail the unilateral plans of the American "hyperpower" and giving hope to those who are looking for performance and result-oriented strategies, the inherent dangers involved in an Iraqi invasion increase with each new delay. Throughout the region - as oil supply issues emerge dominant - smaller coalitions are forming to resist U.S. military plans and political and economic alliances shift as the rest of the world looks for alternatives to abject surrender to Imperial occupation. Just today Reuters announced that the U.S. intends to send an additional 50,000 troops to the region. Each additional delay only increases the likelihood that when it does move the U.S. will employ massive force - possibly even tactical nuclear weapons - resulting in large numbers of civilian casualties.

Had the invasion occurred last September, as originally planned, it would likely have resulted in a quick occupation of Iraq because the rest of the world and various interests in the Middle East had not had time to organize military, economic and political resistance. Each new delay, while not preventing the invasion, only increases the certainty that the conflict will be bloody, prolonged, and will likely spread throughout the region - if not the entire planet. Sadly, it appears as though the Bush War Cabinet has anticipated these developments and is spoiling for a fight that it recognizes might unleash the Horsemen of the Apocalypse. This is destructive madness of the highest order.

At home, both popular and institutional resistance to mass smallpox vaccinations and the administration's heavy handedness with Homeland Security, Total Information Awareness and a glacially powerful erosion of civil liberties is also not going unnoticed by the global community. As I have predicted since January of 2001, this administration is reacting to each new challenge with the only set of coping tools it possesses: intimidation, deception, coercion and brutality. And these responses are provoking real resistance leaders to find ways to fight the Empire in ways that hurt it, by voting with their pocketbooks and withdrawing the consumer support that keeps the Imperial engine running. I wonder how long it will be before significant portions of the population start refusing to pay their taxes. That will be a key signal that the American people are finally psychologically prepared to do something that will make a difference.

At that point, perhaps, the American people will have matured beyond the infantile belief that these problems can be solved from the comfort of an armchair or a pleasant weekend demonstration that goes totally ignored by the mainstream press. There is nothing at stake except tomorrow.

Avec nous, le d?luge.

Michael C. Ruppert
Publisher/Editor
From The Wilderness







Post#5277 at 12-20-2002 01:04 PM by Stonewall Patton [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 3,857]
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In an interview transcript posted on Eric's "Insidious Corporate Takeover" thread (I think?) a few weeks ago, Greg Palast informed us that the Bush administration would once again attempt to oust Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez in a coup, in preparation for a takeover of the Iraqi (and possibly Saudi) oildfields. Chavez is also the current head of OPEC and he has doubled royalties much to the chagrin of Exxon et al. The Bush administration requires a doubled Venezuelan production in order to offset the effects of a diminished Middle Eastern supply during the course of the takeover of the Iraqi (and Saudi?) fields. The Bush administration does not appreciate Chavez's "nickeling and diming" and general "obstinence," so they keep trying to take him out. At the link is a whole series of linked news reports which may provide a completely different impression of recent and current events in Venezuela from that which you have been getting from the corporate media.


http://www.narconews.com/







Post#5278 at 12-20-2002 01:15 PM by Sanford [at joined Aug 2002 #posts 282]
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Senator Lott (Silent) is stepping down as Majority Leader of the Senate.

He is being replaced by Senator Bill Frist (Boomer).







Post#5279 at 12-20-2002 03:22 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Hey, Here come da Boomers!

Hey, Tristan Jones, madscientist, Vince Lamb, Tom Mazanec, Justin '77, Justin'79, Jenny Genser, oddlystrange, sv81, TrollKing, SteveM_55, SMA, Kjirsti75, Norma'66, Pat Mathews, Neisha '67, Kiff '61, Ms. Susan, Donna Sherman, allybear '62, scott '63, Lis '54, David '47, Brian Rush, angeli, Kevin Parker '59, Crispy '59, alan, Matt Wilson, Anthony '58, Lorelai63, wesvolk, L Leavell, Greg 63, Dave'71, and all the rest of you 9.11.2001 was the fourthturning catalyst people, I've got some great news! Here's the latest headline:

As Boom Gains Plurality in Senate
Baby Boomer To Replace
Aging Silent Majority Leader


Wow! Aren't you all excited? This is it, folks! Those crazy Boomers have arrived, and they're taking over the place, too. No doubt, just as soon as the Democrats can get those evil Republicans outta there, we're gonna see the "next New Deal." And it's gonna be just like New Age guru, Fritjof Capra's prophecy in The Turning Point of 1982, too. Yep, we're gonna "build the civilization of the future," with a "cheerful willingness to impose New Age agendas on the bad guys with the full power of the state: Nationalize oil, restructure society, do whatever is necessary to get everybody thinking right."

No more "waiting for Godot" now, coz "Happy Days" are "Just Around the Corner." :wink:


p.s. On the other side of the mountain, Andrew Sullivan writes a nice piece on the generational aspects of L'affaire Lott, here, if you care to gaze...

"But I think among the under 40 crowd, it doesn't quite fall out that way. Part of the genuine moral outrage for the younger crowd is that it really is simply unthinkable to us that anyone, even jokingly, perhaps especially jokingly, could have a good word to say for the presidential campaign of Strom Thurmond. We came of age in the 1970s and 1980s, where the major issue wasn't segregation but affirmative action."







Post#5280 at 12-20-2002 03:45 PM by TrollKing [at Portland, OR -- b. 1968 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,257]
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Re: Hey, Here come da Boomers!

Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
Hey,....TrollKing.....and all the rest of you 9.11.2001 was the fourthturning catalyst people
i don't think i've ever stated that i believe that. i may have entertained it as a possibility, but never enough to justify classifying me as a "9.11.2001 was the fourthturning catalyst person".



Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
Wow! Aren't you all excited? This is it, folks! Those crazy Boomers have arrived, and they're taking over the place, too. No doubt, just as soon as the Democrats can get those evil Republicans outta there, we're gonna see the "next New Deal." And it's gonna be just like New Age guru, Fritjof Capra's prophecy in The Turning Point of 1982, too. Yep, we're gonna "build the civilization of the future," with a "cheerful willingness to impose New Age agendas on the bad guys with the full power of the state: Nationalize oil, restructure society, do whatever is necessary to get everybody thinking right."
again, you're lumping me in here with stuff i don't believe.

ah, well....


TK







Post#5281 at 12-20-2002 03:52 PM by Sanford [at joined Aug 2002 #posts 282]
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Re: Hey, Here come da Boomers!

Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
Here's the latest headline:

As Boom Gains Plurality in Senate
Baby Boomer To Replace
Aging Silent Majority Leader
Hey, Marc, did any actual headline read thus, or did you just make it up? I'm guessing the latter; I haven't noticed the news media having the same compulsive obsession we all here have.

Follow up question: are the boomers a plurality in the Senate?

(Thanks for not lumping me in with the others (half of whom I've never heard of. In what folder does "oddlystrange" post?*). As with Troll, I merely entertain S & H notions here...)

====

* I ask because the dude owes me money. kidding.







Post#5282 at 12-20-2002 03:58 PM by Sanford [at joined Aug 2002 #posts 282]
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Re: Hey, Here come da Boomers!

Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
9.11.2001 was the fourthturning catalyst people
You're kidding about this, too, right? I mean, you aren't suddenly convinced, are you?







Post#5283 at 12-20-2002 03:59 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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I got your 4T "vote" from a survey thread, late last year, TrollKing.

"1) i'm not sure yet. leaning yes, it has begun."
Posted here:
http://www.fourthturning.com/forums/...ighlight=#7057

And, as far as "lumping" you in (other than with the pro 4Ters), you might want to reread my post. No such lumping occured. I merely asked some questions, while offering a potential 4T scenario.

If you're not "excited," just say so. :wink:







Post#5284 at 12-20-2002 05:47 PM by TrollKing [at Portland, OR -- b. 1968 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,257]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
I got your 4T "vote" from a survey thread, late last year, TrollKing.

"1) i'm not sure yet. leaning yes, it has begun."
well, fair enough, i guess. but i did say i wan't sure. i'm still not, but not really leaning at all (either way) anymore.

Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
And, as far as "lumping" you in (other than with the pro 4Ters), you might want to reread my post. No such lumping occured. I merely asked some questions, while offering a potential 4T scenario.
well, you certainly gave that impression, since the whole post appeared to be addressed to a specific (by name) group (that you included me in).

Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
If you're not "excited," just say so. :wink:
ok, i'm not excited, whether your sarcastic scenario or some other plays out. a 4T doesn't appear to be a joyous occasion in and of itself, and the political slant on it is the least of my concerns. whether we come out to the left or right on the other end is of far lower importance than whether we come out at all.


TK







Post#5285 at 12-20-2002 06:02 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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My "sarcastic scenario" was in quotes, culled from a Reason Magazine article. And Fritjof Capra is certainly no joke, either, Do a Google search on his unique name and you'll catch my drift... over 14,000 times.

4Ts aren't pretty. And why liberals seem to enjoy looking forward to 'em, well, it's all about power. The kind of power Capra, and his ilk, obviously lust after.







Post#5286 at 12-20-2002 06:45 PM by TrollKing [at Portland, OR -- b. 1968 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,257]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
My "sarcastic scenario" was in quotes
i referred to the scenario as sarcastic because i know you think it will play out differently, and you were being sarcastic about the probability of the scenario you described.

does that make sense? i'm kind of in a rush here.


TK







Post#5287 at 12-20-2002 07:22 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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We had a good Awakening... I'm cautiously optimistic. 8) ?







Post#5288 at 12-20-2002 08:19 PM by alan [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 268]
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Dear Marc.... I believe that the last time that I commented on the question of whether 911 was the fourth turn catalyst, I said that I had changed my opinion to "no".(It may not have been on the thread which you linked. I did scroll through it looking for my posts, but only found some comments on 60's music). And just to prove what a butthead I can be, I still say that I don't think we're in 4T yet. You, my dear Marc, were the one who convinced me that with the present generational configurations at this time, and staying within the parameters of Strauss and Howe's theory, it was not possible for it to be 4T now.
One of my touchstones for whether it is unraveling time or "Victory at Sea" time is local politics here in Seattle/King County/Washington state. And said political situation are heavy duty unraveling--we're in severe gridlock with no solutions in sight and everybody is digging in their heels and yelling "no!" on just about every issue that comes up. I don't hear that "Victory at Sea" soundtrack music in the background, no one is reading Beowulf aloud on the radio, and if there's a local gray champion around to lead us all into unity he/she is keeping a very low profile.
You probably weren't meaning to insult, by I do get my hackles up when someone implies that I'm part of any movement that wishes to impose "thought or value or belief "controls on anyone. Even when the damn ACLU is defending the most vile creeps I make myself grit my teeth and remember that everybody has to have their rights defended for free speech, even if I loathe them utterly. The one thing that would get me seriously thinking about armed resistance would be re-education camps, which I personally believe are more likely to come from the people of the left leaning persuasion than those of the right. That may be because I've known alot of Socialists and Communists, at least when I was much younger, and they often expressed attitudes of almost godlike superiority over the rest of the unenlightened populace.
End of rant.







Post#5289 at 12-20-2002 08:47 PM by Stonewall Patton [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 3,857]
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British paper:









Post#5290 at 12-20-2002 10:12 PM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton
British paper:


Actually, it's not just a British Paper, but it is also a British TABLOID. And we all know how highly respected, and above all accurate, tabloids are. And I suppose your next post (in reply to me) will be about how this particular paper "isn't like other tabloids" or some other excuse about how it (and you) are absolutely correct in every regard, and about how I am being "brainwashed" by the Bush Admin. as if I have no mind of my own whatsoever.
And I'm sure it will contain more words to liken Bush to Hitler, like "Reichen-whatever" and so forth. You are so predictable.[/i]
1987 INTP







Post#5291 at 12-20-2002 10:19 PM by Stonewall Patton [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 3,857]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Actually, it's not just a British Paper, but it is also a British TABLOID. And we all know how highly respected, and above all accurate, tabloids are. And I suppose your next post (in reply to me) will be about how this particular paper "isn't like other tabloids" or some other excuse about how it (and you) are absolutely correct in every regard, and about how I am being "brainwashed" by the Bush Admin. as if I have no mind of my own whatsoever.
And I'm sure it will contain more words to liken Bush to Hitler, like "Reichen-whatever" and so forth. You are so predictable.[/i]
Relax, Alex. It never occurred to me to say any of these things. The Mirror may well be a tabloid, I wouldn't know. Drudge had it up and I linked it, that's all. 3T or 4T?







Post#5292 at 12-20-2002 11:03 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
And I'm sure it will contain more words to liken Bush to Hitler, like "Reichen-whatever" and so forth. You are so predictable.
Relax, Alex. It never occurred to me to say any of these things. The Mirror may well be a tabloid, I wouldn't know. Drudge had it up and I linked it, that's all. 3T or 4T?
Oh, "Relax, Alex. It never occurred to me to say any of these things." You're such a jerk, Patton. Such a filthy, lying jerk.

Posted just yesterday...
Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Earlier media reports claimed that His Satanic Majesty Karl Rove desired that Frist take Lott's place. Looks like things are working out for the Reichsfuehrer. What does that say about Frist? He must be either seriously compromised or a serious bottom-sucking scumbag in order to get the nod from Herr Reichsfuehrer. I really had no idea Frist was that bad. But what else is new? What a cesspool.

Yeah, right, "It never occurred to me to say any of these things." Derslickmeister never said it better, or with such a straight face. Are ya gonna make a tear suddenly fall from your eye, too, Patton. :wink:







Post#5293 at 12-21-2002 01:32 AM by Stonewall Patton [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 3,857]
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3T or 4T? :lol: :lol: :lol:









Post#5294 at 12-21-2002 03:28 AM by The Pervert [at A D&D Character sheet joined Jan 2002 #posts 1,169]
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I don't care what turning it is!

This looks like my idea of an infiltration! Hubba, hubba! :wink:

Actually, it looks more like 1T -> 2T to me.
Your local general nuisance
"I am not an alter ego. I am an unaltered id!"







Post#5295 at 12-21-2002 11:05 PM by Tom Mazanec [at NE Ohio 1958 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,511]
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Am I excited?

No, Marc, not by this. I find it interesting, but not momentuous. It is just a small step in the progress we are currently making in the turnings, in which we are now either late 3T or early 4T.
I think we will probably find out if 9-1-1 was "it" in 2003 (maybe early in 2003, depending on how the Iraq situation plays out). We will surely know by the end of 2004.







Post#5296 at 12-23-2002 12:05 PM by cbailey [at B. 1950 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,559]
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I'm Dreaming of A 3T Christmas?
These wagons aren't heading home to circle....and a new moniker for Xers; "Christmas Orphans."





Extended Family Get-togethers Are Losing Their Appeal





BY KATE ZERNIKE
THE NEW YORK TIMES

When Alex and Karen Graham lived abroad, they felt obliged to return to North America to see their families each December. So this year, when they moved back, they imagined the family gathering at their new home in the New York suburbs for the holidays, grandparents flying in and beaming as the Grahams' two young daughters opened gifts.

Yet when the Grahams invited them, all five grandparents declined, stepgrandparents included. Graham's mother said she was going skiing in British Columbia, and even after they warned her there was no snow, she would not be lured.

"We suggested she should come and play Santa with her granddaughters, but apparently she'd rather go and watch the grass grow in Whistler," said Graham. "The draw of two cute little girls with bows in their hair is clearly insufficient this holiday."

In an overextended age, the extended family Christmas appears to be shrinking. For many, the holiday is no longer the Norman Rockwell gathering around the tree, the roast, the carols. Single sons and daughters in their 20s and 30s are telling their parents they will not be home for Christmas; grandparents are saying you cannot count on me.

The singles say they have tired of the rituals and the retreat into childhood roles that inevitably happens when everyone returns to the family fold. With the Medicare set more active, many grandparents have other ideas about how to spend the holiday. And parents say they do not want to haul children and gifts for the whole family over the river and through the woods, or worse, through O'Hare Airport.

"You don't want to go to grandma, nor does grandma want to come to you," said Karal Ann Marling, a professor at the University of Minnesota and the author of Merry Christmas! Celebrating America's Greatest Holiday. "There's been a serious change in the assembly of the extended family: They're not all coming together under one roof."

Marling said this year in particular might be working against a family Christmas, with the holiday falling at midweek, airlines in turmoil and doubts about security after the Sept. 11 attacks.

"This is going to sound horrible, but as you get older, it starts to feel like an obligation," said John Slattery, 39, an art director in New York City.

Slattery said he could fly to Europe or Hawaii for less than the cost of a ticket to New Brunswick, Canada, where most of his family will celebrate. So he will stay in New York to have dinner with friends also choosing to be Christmas orphans.

"The truth is, my friends all say the same thing," he said. "The novelty wears off after a day or two. After Christmas -- the presents, the videos, the nieces and nephews -- you just start to think, 'What the hell am I doing in this town?' "







Post#5297 at 12-23-2002 03:49 PM by Stonewall Patton [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 3,857]
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Ladies take note! Drudge headline:

"National Institutes of Health: Measuring sexual arousal; probe called vaginal photoplethysmograph..."

Your tax dollars at work! And you can serve your country and make a little money while doing it! Link below from Drudge (page contains links to pictures of the (ahem) instrument as well as the exam room):

http://www.psych.nwu.edu/psych/peopl...y/arousal.html

3T or 4T?







Post#5298 at 12-23-2002 04:02 PM by TrollKing [at Portland, OR -- b. 1968 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,257]
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Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton
Your tax dollars at work! And you can serve your country and make a little money while doing it! Link below from Drudge (page contains links to pictures of the (ahem) instrument as well as the exam room):

http://www.psych.nwu.edu/psych/peopl...y/arousal.html
i can think of few things that are more worth studying. ;-)


TK







Post#5299 at 12-23-2002 06:59 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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Quote Originally Posted by TrollKing
Quote Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton
Your tax dollars at work! And you can serve your country and make a little money while doing it! Link below from Drudge (page contains links to pictures of the (ahem) instrument as well as the exam room):

http://www.psych.nwu.edu/psych/peopl...y/arousal.html
i can think of few things that are more worth studying. ;-)


TK
Like what? :wink:







Post#5300 at 12-25-2002 06:20 PM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marc Lamb
You're such a jerk, Patton. Such a filthy, lying jerk.
Thank you, Marc. I'm glad I'm not alone about S.Patton.
1987 INTP
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