Oh Marc. Don't cry.



It is OK my son.

The best presidential debate you are ever going to see or hear in 2004:

(P)Resident George W. Bush vs. Governor George W. Bush of TX:

(This is really pretty good!)

http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.../jon_7131.html

O.K. I give up. I am going to go find some sanity for a while.

Marc, you are 100% correct. We are still in a 3T. This was all I needed to convince me. Sometimes it is something so simple, you wouldn't even take a second glance.

It seems the Dems in Congress are still refusing to use their brain. Never mind the forest service says the forest needs to be thinned. Never mind the firefighters say the forest need to be thinned. Never mind that although California has experienced its worst dought of recorded history, which has enabled the bark beetle to kill 1/2 the pine forest. This pine tree death is highly hazardous to the living trees as it gives kindling to the live ones. Never mind that the forest fires last year in California and Arizona that burned so out of control was found to be so bad because of the "no cutting" policy.Forget all of that.

Republicans real agenda is to give rise to the logging industry.

What can I say about that? I am past caring about these stupid inaine cultural wars.
_________________

I was just wondering since I put no stock in Astrology..........

I was born in July, that makes me a Cancer.
Cancer in a water symbol. Cancers ruling planet is the moon linked in astrology to nature, gestation, motherhood, and the creation and preservation of life.

The tides are greatly influenced by the moon and moon phase.

Why aren't I? I mean I am more than half water, right.

Then how come I don't bleed by the moon nor do I ovulate by it?

I am sure there is some answer, because astrology couldn't be bunk, could it?

You seem like a Cancerian actually. To understand that garbage you have to see it in terms of the other signs. My girlfriend is a Cancerian and when she is out in the moonlight I really think she may be an alien. In fact the first time we spent alot of time together I was pretty sure she was either a witch or an alien.

Its easier for me to put up with that because I am a Scorpio. I understand a moody person better than a rational, stubborn Taurus. She tells me I can be like a snake. I strike people back where it hurts. I sting. I am not a team leading get it don Aries, or a stubborn Taurus. I am definitely not a preachy perpetually discontented with the world Aquarian like my last girlfriend who thought that not only eating meat was evil, but that getting eaten by a lion would be a beautiful way of "communing with nature."

(Aquarians are completely insane)

I think it may be the stars, but it also is nature. My birthday is in November. It is a craggy, rainy, depressing as all hell month. How can you celebrate your birth in that month and not be a moody bitch?

Two of my friends were born in early August. They get to have their birthdays surrounded by friends, with water fights, pool parties, sunshine.
They are totally spoiled in terms of their birthday. They are Leos. Everyday is like a birthday party to them.

There is some truth to the astrological signs. I don't know why, it may be the moon are stars or just myth, but people tend to be pretty much in line with their star signs. May it can explain why my father is so anal (Virgo)
my brother and Mom so emotionally crazy (Scorpios) and i am more free spirited (Sagittarius cusp)

If there is not another war by the end of the year (aside from the usual Arab-Israeli mess), and the economy doesn't tank, I'll be ready to concede that we're still 3T - and hope it will last just a little longer, like until near the end of the decade.

What might be the Catalyst, in that case? Another 9/11 - but worse, and with most of the rest of the world (including most of our former allies) applauding the terrorists this time? Brian Rush's energy crash? Something else entirely? We'll see...

I am bored with Bush and the War on Terror. It is boring. NEXT!

http://www.freep.com/voices/editoria...9_20030429.htm

I bet we'll see this article quoted in S&H's next book regarding the Millies coming of age experience. Now, they just need to air more positive videos

Hip-Hop America: Music, culture -- now a force for good citizenship

April 29, 2003

Historians might look back on Detroit's Hip-Hop Summit over the weekend as the start of a new political platform.

Hip-hop, the dominant force in popular culture over the last decade, has reshaped fashion, advertising and marketing. Now rap mogul Russell Simmons and his Hip-Hop Summit Action Network want to use that power to get young people to vote, protest education cuts and, in Simmons' words, make America a better, more compassionate place.

Detroit became the ninth city to host a Hip-hop summit aimed at energizing young people, and it was the biggest. With its youthful mayor and musical heritage, the Motor City was a natural host. It's also home to many young people who feel little connection to mainstream politics but fully connected to the music and culture of hip-hop.

No doubt, some of hip-hop has glorified a lone pursuit of diamonds, Cristal and the bling-bling lifesytle. But the music has always had a social conscience, too. It's good that today's hip-hop artists are giving back to the communities that made them rich by urging their fans to get involved in the issues that affect them most. If hip-hop artists could make old-school Burberry cool, maybe they can do the same for voting or fighting illiteracy.

There's no better place to start that effort than Detroit.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0430/p12s01-lihc.html

Civic Superheroes? That phrase perfectly captures the essense of Civic generations.

Becoming civic superheroes
City Year's corps members get an intensive education in how to be activists. That means asking not just 'How do we change the world?' but 'How do we change ourselves?'

By Elizabeth Lund | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

They were warned that once they put on the jacket, nothing would be the same. "You lose your name," said the speaker to the 166 young adults being sworn in last Oct. 1. "Your first name becomes City. Your last name becomes Year."

But the folks in red didn't flinch. They stood at attention and pledged to serve their community and country.

Thus began their transformation from private citizens to the kind of civic superheroes City Year's founders envisioned 14 years ago when the organization began in Boston. Since then, the program has spread to 14 sites and served as the model for AmeriCorps, of which it is a member.

If the new inductees thought that changing society would be easy, however, they would have to think again. They, like the 80 percent of college freshmen who do volunteer work each year, would have to learn how to turn idealism into action. And like their predecessors who joined the Peace Corps two generations ago, they would have to discover that being effective activists means asking not just "How do we change the world?" but "How do we change ourselves?"

Over time, these heroes-in-training would also need to understand that their red jackets were not the same as red capes. Coats, after all, often start out too stiff or too big, and they must be broken it in over time. But City Year corps members begin wearing theirs right away.

Within days, the new CYers would be heading off to the sites where they'd work for the next nine months as "social change entrepreneurs." For the 11 members of the PTC team, that meant East Boston, a tightknit, blue-collar community where Spanish and Portuguese are heard almost as often as English.

The team would be teaching classes in social justice at the Umana-Barnes Middle School and working in three after-school programs. They would also plan a Servathon day for later that month, orchestrate week-long camps for elementary kids during February and April vacations, and plan a spring service day for employees of PTC, their team sponsor.

That's a pretty heavy load for new activists, especially for a team so young - only two of the 11 had graduated from college and the rest were recent high school grads. They received a month of preparation in teaching techniques, leadership skills, and City Year philosophy, just enough to prepare them for the first fact of an activist's life: You learn on the job, usually in a baptism by fire.

Most of the team members had never attended a school like Umana-Barnes, where a majority of the students come from low-income families, many are recent immigrants, and more than a third speak English as their second language.

Still, the team was convinced it could make a difference by teaching these kids to reject prejudice and the "isms" - racism, sexism, etc. - and to start taking small, positive actions that would ripple out into their school and neighborhoods.

But first, it would need to overcome some schisms of its own, because the team members were from very different backgrounds, and not everyone seemed to be leadership material in the beginning.

Jesse Last did appear to have the boldness required. He'd grown up in Wellesley, Mass., an affluent suburb, and attended a private high school. The son of an environmental lawyer, Jesse wasn't shy about saying that the public-school system was seriously broken and it "teaches students to behave, not to think."

Talmadge Nardi also had an activist's pedigree. She had majored in feminist studies at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Wash., where it was the norm for students to be outspoken about their views. Talmadge was concerned that corps members are not allowed to be politically active.

Zach Maurin had graduated from a public high school in Pittsburgh, where, he says, he had far too many bad teachers. He wants to become a school principal so he can make sure other kids don't have his same experience.

These three would need to blend their styles with others who didn't seem as confident - team members like Alexander Dorsk of Needham, Mass., who was so shy he wouldn't make eye contact when he spoke to people. And Vanessa Chambers, the only African-American, who felt the need to prove that she, unlike her sister, could finish the City Year program.

The team dived into the work. It included lots of meetings about the classes they'd teach and about Servathon, where they'd be leading hundreds of local residents in a one-day cleanup/fixup. They had to decide what they'd present in class, who would lead which part of each class, and how to adapt their lessons from the City Year curriculum.

Discussions ranged from careful, don't-want-to-hurt-anyone's-feelings talks to blunter chats in which underlying issues were dealt with directly. Emily Cherniack, the team's manager, moderated when needed, but she wanted them to become self-sufficient. That's why Emily, who had been a corps member two years earlier, drove home the idea of communicating.

"Communication is essential," she would tell them many times. "But communication isn't easy, and it isn't something you can learn in a day. Think about what you need from the rest of the team and what you can offer. Your greatness will lie in your ability to support each other."

In the classroom, the group's baptism was indeed by fire, and sometimes the team members got a bit singed: A children's book was read without first telling the students how its theme related to their subject matter. And a discussion on racism and prejudice asked the students if they had ever been discriminated against, but not if they had discriminated against others.

A harder lesson - about maintaining discipline - came two days before Christmas vacation, when a restless bunch in one class ignored the CY presentation and found their own "entertainment." A girl pinched the boys until one of them hit her.

But along the way, the 11 began to function as one, picking up on one another's cues and redirecting students before trouble arose. And there were times when a CYer would impart a powerful lesson by taking a personal risk.

Such was the case in December, when Talmadge, Vanessa, and Zach were teaching a group of eighth-graders who'd been designated as emotionally challenged. One student had just returned to school after being arrested for assault and battery.

"What did you get out of that?" asked Zach. "Are you happy with your decision to fight?"

It was a smart move, but now the team had to make a strong point and make it fast. Vanessa stepped forward, demonstrating why City Year wants its members to have diverse backgrounds. She told the group about her own arrest during her senior year of high school for hitting a fellow student who had egged her on. She described standing before a judge, paying a fine, and being ordered to complete City Year - or face jail time.

"Fighting leads down a pathway where you have nowhere to go," she bluntly told them. "The one who throws the first punch is the one who causes the problem. Fighting makes no sense."

The room went silent, and then the students broke into applause. Mission definitely accomplished.

Connecting with young people is an aim of City Year. It may also be the program's biggest strength, according to William Galston, director of the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement (CIRCLE).

"In areas that CIRCLE has studied," he says, "peer-to-peer contact is arguably the most effective mode of communication. If you see people who look like you and who share your life experience, the power of that is greater than someone who is two or three times older than you."

The kind of values City Year promotes may not take hold in students until high school, Mr. Galston says, but "middle school is not too early to begin introducing notions of social responsibility."

The East Boston team would agree that it is planting seeds. After all, City Year sees its mission as helping the community and training future activists for a lifetime of service. And the most difficult part of that training is learning to work as a team.

"It's hard to teach with other people and plan with them," says team member Vidya Sivan, who has a bachelor's degree in education. "Sometimes we have to agree to disagree."

Autumn Soucy echoes Vidya's last comment, but she has also learned that at times it's important to reach a consensus.

When the two were helping to revise the City Year curriculum, Vidya was concerned about how to label the goals and purposes of each activity. "I like things to be quantifiable," she says.

But Autumn, after listening a while, pointed out that they also needed to help students "see how the City Year stuff relates to the rest of their lives."

Some might wonder how relevant City Year's social-justice curriculum is, especially when state and local governments are increasing class sizes and cutting back on basic instruction

Michael Brown, co-founder and president of City Year, says that now, when so many services are being cut, is the perfect time for the organization's message. He points out that City Year's larger mission is to promote the idea of a year of service for all young people and to activate "people's justice nerve" in a variety of ways.

Service, says Mr. Brown, is the "missing link in making America's democracy effective. Often there's a disconnect between being a citizen and really participating and having a stake in democracy."

But is the $35 million price tag for all 14 City Year groups - one-third of which comes from AmeriCorps, the rest from private funding - really worth it? A partial answer can be found in East Boston.

Since last October, the PTC team has made noticeable physical improvements, repainting the school's auditorium, gym, and skateboard park. It has removed graffiti on school grounds and has filled two dumpsters with trash from behind the school. It has started a newsletter with students who participate in an after-school program for recent immigrants, and it has overseen the installation of new software on the library computers.

But what about the children the team has worked with? Ruben Sosa adores them, saying simply, "They're great."

Many of his peers agree, as does teacher Cristina Chan. "The kids love it," she says of the program, which encourages students to speak in public and to express their views aloud. "It can be a little chaotic, but it helps with behavior and discipline, especially when [the students] learn that what they're doing here relates to the larger community."

The team's sponsor, PTC (a software company), also has high praise for the group. "They really have an impact," says Margaret Pantridge, the firm's director of community relations. "They encourage everybody they meet to be active...."

The team itself has also come a long way. Boldness has mellowed into confidence, and as group members reflect on what they've learned, there is wisdom in their voices, along with energy.

Alex, who was once so shy, is now equally comfortable with children and adults. "Everyone can do something," he says, without breaking eye contact, "and it's important to be patient with people who aren't as proficient in certain things instead of leaving them behind."

Vanessa, who worried about making it through the year, has decided to sign on for a second year - as a recruiter.

Jesse, who was so quick to criticize the public schools, now hesitates to do so. He acknowledges how hard it is to deal with large classes and little money.

Talmadge thought about quitting at Christmas because City Year didn't have an outlet for her interest in feminist causes. She stayed, however, and began teaching guitar lessons at the Salesian Girls and Boys Club. She still has doubts, but has decided that "day to day, we change kids. You can see their minds changing, the light bulbs going on."

But perhaps the most eloquent statement came from a team member who has learned to be a quiet leader. Michelle Devine's family once depended on welfare and food stamps to get by. She describes the most important part of her CY job as "simply being there" and showing the students another option in life.

"I'm 19 years old," she says, "and I'm not in a gang, I'm not out on the streets, I'm not like the kids they see in high school that they are influenced by. I'm not a superhero. I'm just like them, trying to make them see they're important."

Clearly, her red jacket - and the others' - fits well now. And when that happens, a civic superhero doesn't need a cape at all.

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Note the pretend graph of Al Qaeda recruits. In actuality, Al Qaeda has lost so many members that now it can barely function.

Here is a REAL graph, with REAL data: terrorist attacks in 2002 were at a thirty-year low.

See what happens when the U.S. really fights back? The terrorists lose.

Once upon a time, this thread was about whether or not we are in 3T or 4T (long ago, and oh...so far away!)

Anyway, make of this what you will, but somehow it has a flagpole sitting, barnstorming, 3T feel to me.

The following is quoted for discussion only without intention of profit or infringement.

http://www.nbc5.com/travelgetaways/2179262/detail.html#


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First Nude Flight Leaves Miami Bound For Cancun

Organizers Say Trip Is First Of Its Kind

POSTED: 6:56 a.m. CDT May 5, 2003
UPDATED: 1:17 p.m. CDT May 5, 2003


MIAMI -- When the flight reached cruising altitude, 87 passengers took off
more than their seat belts -- they removed their clothes.

The nude flight, billed by organizers as the first one of its kind, took off Saturday afternoon from Miami International Airport, headed for Cancun.



A Houston travel agency specializing in clothing-optional getaways organized the trip on a chartered Boeing 727. Passengers paid $499 for the trip, with many heading to Cancun's El Dorado Resort & Spa for Nude Week.

"These are professionals who lead very stressful lives and are ready to let it all go," said Donna Daniels, co-owner of the Castaways travel agency and an in-the-buff traveler on the inaugural flight. "They are adventurers and risk takers. They don't even want clothes as a constraint. "

There were limits, though. The captain and crew kept their clothes on. No hot coffee or tea was served for fear of spills. And no hanky-panky.

"This is not the Mile High Club," Daniels said.

Newlyweds Claudia Kellersch and Blair Brumley from San Diego met on a nude beach and recently wed in a naked ceremony. The flight was Kellersch's 50th birthday present to Brumley.

"Can you think of a more perfect, unique gift?" she asked.

"Naked travel is the fastest-growing segment of Castaways' business, Daniels said.

"After 9/11, I didn't have any cancellations," she said. "Even after war broke out, we didn't have any cancellations on this trip. People feel safe on a flight like this."

How long did the League of Nations go on during the last 4T? And were there any scenes like this?

The irony is to overwhelming... you couldn't make up this stuff... oh, the humanity! Why didn't the marines stop it?

Food Fight: When the Food Workers Union stages an impromptu walkout at the U.N., the diplomats start looting for lunch and booze


That was enough to set the food workers walking during the height of Friday's lunch hour. After that, what ensued was nothing short of Baghdad style chaos.

Kofi Annan, who had a private lunch previously scheduled with the members of the Security Council in the Delegates Dining Room, found they were only served the main course. After that, they were on their own ? no desserts, no cleanup, no coffee for Kofi. And the service was no better for anyone else at the U.N. But as tensions grew and stomachs growled, a high-ranking U.N. official boldly ordered that all the cafeterias open their doors for business even without staff. The restaurants had been locked shut by security until about 1:00 pm when the doors flung open.

The decision to make the cafeterias into "no pay zones" spread through the 40-acre complex like wildfire. Soon, the hungry patrons came running. "It was chaos, wild, something out of a war scene," said one Aramark executive who was present. "They took everything, even the silverware," she said. Another witness from U.N. security said the cafeteria was "stripped bare." And another told TIME that the cafeteria raid was "unbelievable, crowds of people just taking everything in sight; they stripped the place bare." And yet another astonished witness said that "chickens, turkeys, souffles, casseroles all went out the door (unpaid)."

The mob then moved on to the Viennese Caf?, a popular snack bar in the U.N.'s conference room facility. It was also stripped bare. The takers included some well-known diplomats who finished off the raid with free drinks at the lounge for delegates. When asked how much liquor was lifted from the U.N. bar, one U.S. diplomat responded: "I stopped counting the bottles."

I thought the link above would be a link on Drudge to some obscure outfit sensationalizing things. But this came from Time. Now, I don't believe everything I read in even mainstream publications, but it's not likely that Time made this up.

Has anyone seen this verified elsewhere? Has the BBC reported this independently?

I can understand being hungry and walking off with some food, but the silverware and everything? These are our world diplomats? Maybe we should send the UN packing to Geneva.

Originally Posted by Evan Anderson

Here is a REAL graph, with REAL data: terrorist attacks in 2002 were at a thirty-year low.

See what happens when the U.S. really fights back? The terrorists lose.

[snip graph]

Actually, Evan, what I see is a 'trough' trend roughly starting in '89 (the end of the Cold War, perhaps??). Last years numbers fall right into a pattern which, if the Administration's line is to be believed, has been occurring since before the WOT even was conceived. In fact, it looks like (if you want to give an American president the credit -- I don't but maybe that's just me..) Clinton presided over the largest continuation of that trend.

Now, since the 9/11 attacks, as well as most other major terrorist attacks, are years in the planning, and since even the graph shows three discernable terrorism peaks, don't you think it's a bit premature to sieze on the numbers of a single year (particularly the last year in which measurements were taken) as evidence of victory?

The Talibs are active in Afghanistan; Al Qaeda is regrouping in central Asia; Iraqis in An-Falluja are starting to take action.

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

Originally Posted by Sean Love

I thought the link above would be a link on Drudge to some obscure outfit sensationalizing things. But this came from Time. Now, I don't believe everything I read in even mainstream publications, but it's not likely that Time made this up.

Has anyone seen this verified elsewhere? Has the BBC reported this independently?

I can understand being hungry and walking off with some food, but the silverware and everything? These are our world diplomats? Maybe we should send the UN packing to Geneva.

There was a time, once upon a time, when the UN was a serious experiment, if a failed one. It was founded with serious intentions, and in spite of its limitations it had done some good in the world.

But for many, many years now (since well before the end of the Cold War), it's been a joke. The Iraq II situation merely shone a bright light on a long-standing condition, as does this.

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Once upon a time, this thread was about whether or not we are in 3T or 4T (long ago, and oh...so far away!)

Anyway, make of this what you will, but somehow it has a flagpole sitting, barnstorming, 3T feel to me.

The following is quoted for discussion only without intention of profit or infringement.

http://www.nbc5.com/travelgetaways/2179262/detail.html#


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First Nude Flight Leaves Miami Bound For Cancun

Organizers Say Trip Is First Of Its Kind

POSTED: 6:56 a.m. CDT May 5, 2003
UPDATED: 1:17 p.m. CDT May 5, 2003


MIAMI -- When the flight reached cruising altitude, 87 passengers took off
more than their seat belts -- they removed their clothes.

The nude flight, billed by organizers as the first one of its kind, took off Saturday afternoon from Miami International Airport, headed for Cancun.



A Houston travel agency specializing in clothing-optional getaways organized the trip on a chartered Boeing 727. Passengers paid $499 for the trip, with many heading to Cancun's El Dorado Resort & Spa for Nude Week.

"These are professionals who lead very stressful lives and are ready to let it all go," said Donna Daniels, co-owner of the Castaways travel agency and an in-the-buff traveler on the inaugural flight. "They are adventurers and risk takers. They don't even want clothes as a constraint. "

There were limits, though. The captain and crew kept their clothes on. No hot coffee or tea was served for fear of spills. And no hanky-panky.

"This is not the Mile High Club," Daniels said.

Newlyweds Claudia Kellersch and Blair Brumley from San Diego met on a nude beach and recently wed in a naked ceremony. The flight was Kellersch's 50th birthday present to Brumley.

"Can you think of a more perfect, unique gift?" she asked.

"Naked travel is the fastest-growing segment of Castaways' business, Daniels said.

"After 9/11, I didn't have any cancellations," she said. "Even after war broke out, we didn't have any cancellations on this trip. People feel safe on a flight like this."

Yeah, HC, I'd agree that the tale has an Unravelling feel to it. Believe it or not, I've found myself hoping (against substantial odds, perhaps) that we really are still 3T. A few more years of Unravelling would buy me more time-- time to regroup (with friends and family), reassess (my life) and prepare-- before the real Crisis storm hits. My gut feeling is that it's gonna be a deuzy.

Originally Posted by Kevin Parker '59

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Once upon a time, this thread was about whether or not we are in 3T or 4T (long ago, and oh...so far away!)

Anyway, make of this what you will, but somehow it has a flagpole sitting, barnstorming, 3T feel to me.

The following is quoted for discussion only without intention of profit or infringement.

http://www.nbc5.com/travelgetaways/2179262/detail.html#


Email This Story | Print This Story



First Nude Flight Leaves Miami Bound For Cancun

Organizers Say Trip Is First Of Its Kind

POSTED: 6:56 a.m. CDT May 5, 2003
UPDATED: 1:17 p.m. CDT May 5, 2003


MIAMI -- When the flight reached cruising altitude, 87 passengers took off
more than their seat belts -- they removed their clothes.

The nude flight, billed by organizers as the first one of its kind, took off Saturday afternoon from Miami International Airport, headed for Cancun.



A Houston travel agency specializing in clothing-optional getaways organized the trip on a chartered Boeing 727. Passengers paid $499 for the trip, with many heading to Cancun's El Dorado Resort & Spa for Nude Week.

"These are professionals who lead very stressful lives and are ready to let it all go," said Donna Daniels, co-owner of the Castaways travel agency and an in-the-buff traveler on the inaugural flight. "They are adventurers and risk takers. They don't even want clothes as a constraint. "

There were limits, though. The captain and crew kept their clothes on. No hot coffee or tea was served for fear of spills. And no hanky-panky.

"This is not the Mile High Club," Daniels said.

Newlyweds Claudia Kellersch and Blair Brumley from San Diego met on a nude beach and recently wed in a naked ceremony. The flight was Kellersch's 50th birthday present to Brumley.

"Can you think of a more perfect, unique gift?" she asked.

"Naked travel is the fastest-growing segment of Castaways' business, Daniels said.

"After 9/11, I didn't have any cancellations," she said. "Even after war broke out, we didn't have any cancellations on this trip. People feel safe on a flight like this."

Yeah, HC, I'd agree that the tale has an Unravelling feel to it. Believe it or not, I've found myself hoping (against substantial odds, perhaps) that we really are still 3T. A few more years of Unravelling would buy me more time-- time to regroup (with friends and family), reassess (my life) and prepare-- before the real Crisis storm hits. My gut feeling is that it's gonna be a deuzy.

Same here, dudes! And for many of the same reasons Kevin Parker mentioned. I would also like more time to regroup, reassess, and prepare - time I thought we were out of only a month and a half ago. Besides, if we are still 3T, then I won't feel like I have to mark off any candidates for next year's Presidential election who's platforms I agree with just because they're last wave Silent Generation instead of Boomers.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Clinton presided over the largest continuation of that trend.

Only if you squint, use your imagination, and ignore the late '90's spike in terrorist activity.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

The Talibs are active in Afghanistan; Al Qaeda is regrouping in central Asia; Iraqis in An-Falluja are starting to take action.

The Talibs, persistenly failing to become immune to precision guided munitions, are actively dying; Al Qaeda is regrouping in hell (Al Qaeda numbers down from thousands to mere dozens!); and the vaunted Iraqi 'resistance' is mostly composed of a few dozen men in front of the hotels frequented by Western journalists too lazy to get out and interview the vast majority of Iraqis who remain ecstatic that we are there.

Bad Reporting in Baghdad: You have no idea how well things are going


To an amazing degree, the Baghdad-based press corps avoids writing about or filming the friendly dealings between U.S. forces here and the local population--most likely because to do so would require them to report the extravagant expressions of gratitude that accompany every such encounter. Instead you read story after story about the supposed fury of Baghdadis at the Americans for allowing the breakdown of law and order in their city.

Well, I've met hundreds of Iraqis as I accompanied army patrols all over the city during the past two weeks and I've never encountered any such fury (even in areas that were formerly controlled by the Marines, who as the premier warrior force were never expected to carry out peacekeeping or policing functions). There is understandable frustration about the continuing failure of the Americans to get the water supply and the electricity turned back on, though the ubiquity of generators indicates that the latter was always a problem. And there are appeals for more protection (difficult to provide with only 12,000 troops in a city of 6 million that has not been placed under strict martial law). But there is no fury.

Given that a large proportion of the city's poorest residents have taken part in looting the Baathist elite's ministries, homes, and institutions, that should tell you something about the sources preferred by the denizens of the Palestine Hotel (the preferred home of the press corps). Indeed it's striking that while many of the troops I've accompanied find themselves feeling some sympathy for the inhabitants of "Typhoid Alley" and other destitute neighborhoods and their attempts to obtain fans, furniture, TVs, etc., the press corps often seems solidly on the side of those who grew fat under the Saddam regime. (That said, imagine the press hysteria that would have greeted a decision by U.S. troops to use deadly force against the looters and defend the property of the city's elite.) Even in the wealthiest neighborhoods--places like the Mansoor district, where you still see intact pictures of Saddam Hussein--people seem to be a lot more pro-American than you could ever imagine from reading the wires.

Perhaps this is just another case of reporters with an anti-American or antiwar agenda. Perhaps living in Saddam's totalitarian Baghdad has left some of the press here with a case of Stockholm syndrome. It may also be a byproduct of depending on interpreters and fixers who were connected to or worked with the approval of the Saddam regime. And you cannot underestimate the herd instinct that can take over when you have a lot of media folk in a confined area for any length of time. But whatever the cause, the result has been very selective reporting.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

You'd make a good replacement for the Iraqi Information Minister.

Originally Posted by Titus Sabinius Parthicus

Originally Posted by Kevin Parker '59

Yeah, HC, I'd agree that the tale has an Unravelling feel to it. Believe it or not, I've found myself hoping (against substantial odds, perhaps) that we really are still 3T. A few more years of Unravelling would buy me more time-- time to regroup (with friends and family), reassess (my life) and prepare-- before the real Crisis storm hits. My gut feeling is that it's gonna be a deuzy.

Same here, dudes! And for many of the same reasons Kevin Parker mentioned. I would also like more time to regroup, reassess, and prepare - time I thought we were out of only a month and a half ago. Besides, if we are still 3T, then I won't feel like I have to mark off any candidates for next year's Presidential election who's platforms I agree with just because they're last wave Silent Generation instead of Boomers.

Well, as I've said before, I think we are still in very late 3T, but when 911 went down, I figured we'd just about go 4T early. I am relieved, for several reasons, that it didn't work out that way, including most of the reasons you guys both give.

Frankly, and meaning no offense to any particular individual Boomer (many of whom I greatly respect), the Boomers as a Generation are in my humble opinion not yet ready for prime time.

Yeah, but with their eldest cohort turning 60 and the youngest turning 43, they are just about ready for a turning change. Perhaps the question is: are the rest of us ready for them? Sobering thought.

Actually, if one goes by the last two 'normal' 4Ts, this one shouldn't really get rolling (assuming 9/11 was a 'false' catalyst) until the youngest Boomers are in their late 40s. I base this on the youngest Awakeners being 49/50 when all that tea went into Boston Harbor, and the youngest Missionaries being 46/47 when the Stock Market crashed. If so, that would point to sometime between 2007 and 2010 for the 'true' catalyst. As for the Civil War, I did say 'normal' 4T, not 'premature' 4T, which this did look like becoming for some time, but now I have my doubts (and hopes!).

By Alister Doyle

OSLO (Reuters) - A Norwegian parliamentarian nominated President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) for the Nobel Peace Prize on Thursday, praising them for winning the war in Iraq (news - web sites).

'Sometimes it's necessary to use a small and effective war to prevent a much more dangerous war in the future,' Jan Simonsen, a right-wing independent in Norway's parliament, told Reuters.


'If nobody acted then Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) could have produced weapons of mass destruction and, in five or 10 years, could have used them against Israel,' he said.


An award to Bush and Blair would be a U-turn after the Nobel Committee awarded the 2002 prize to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter last October. At the time, the committee chairman called it a kick in the shins to Bush's Iraq policies as Carter had been calling for a diplomatic solution.

Originally Posted by The Avenging Bombardier

By Alister Doyle

OSLO (Reuters) - A Norwegian parliamentarian nominated President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) for the Nobel Peace Prize on Thursday, praising them for winning the war in Iraq (news - web sites).

This is interesting, but why did you post this article on three different threads. Also, what does it have to do with a third versus fourth turning? :-?

Also, bear in mind that this is just a nomination, not an award. My guess is that the Nobel Peace Prize committee will hold off on moving forward such a nomination until if and when a new stable government in Iraq is established.

Originally Posted by Sean Love

Yeah, but with their eldest cohort turning 60 and the youngest turning 43, they are just about ready for a turning change. Perhaps the question is: are the rest of us ready for them? Sobering thought.

Again, we've got the conundrum that with turnings and generations being substantially shorter than in past saeculi, we will never get everyone lined up the way they were in 1774 or even 1930.

Using the classical stage-in-life archetypes, currently the Millies and Gen X are right in place for an early Crisis role. The first wave Boomers are also ready for their Gray Champion role, although the later waves are still firmly in mid-life. The Silent are definitely too young for the post-elder role.

Maybe this compression of generations and the fact that there are currently adults in five generations playing active roles (GIs -- yes, some are still in Congress and in the Supreme Court --, Silents, Boomers, Gen-Xers, and the oldest Millies) is resulting in what Sean Love calls the Phony Fourth.

Wonk,

Yes. Generational compression is definitely an issue and an alternative potential source of this Phony Fourth limbo that should be looked into (assuming I am right in identifying our current time period that way).

This compaction is one thing I really wish Strauss & Howe would talk more about. I more or less buy their argument about the shortening of the Growth Phase by a few years (3-5) and that a drop in the age of physical maturity plays a major role in that (but I would not agree that it is exclusive).

To me, it is enough that the leading edges of the youngest three identified generations were only 58, 40, & 19 on 9/11/01 to explain the strange nature of the post-9/11 period, saecularly speaking. BUT, as you point out, there are some GI's still hanging around --- and the Silents are still around in significant numbers and with significant societal influence. I have not considered the GI's current influence to mean much, but in light of your post I will reconsider.

BTW, does anyone know why Strauss and Howe have nearly abandoned this site? Beyond the possibility that they didn't like the partisan nonsense I guess they are really wrapped up in their consulting biz, with Howe also doing his Concord thing and Strauss the Capitol Steps.