Originally Posted by The Wonk

Originally Posted by The Avenging Bombardier

By Alister Doyle

OSLO (Reuters) - A Norwegian parliamentarian nominated President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) for the Nobel Peace Prize on Thursday, praising them for winning the war in Iraq (news - web sites).

This is interesting, but why did you post this article on three different threads. Also, what does it have to do with a third versus fourth turning? :-?

Also, bear in mind that this is just a nomination, not an award. My guess is that the Nobel Peace Prize committee will hold off on moving forward such a nomination until if and when a new stable government in Iraq is established.

Besides, I suspect many on the decision making body would sooner bite out their own tongues than give the Peace Prize to anyone remotely resembling a right-winger. If you look at recen recipients, there is a distinct pattern to the Peace Prize decisions.

Besides, I suspect many on the decision making body would sooner bite out their own tongues than give the Peace Prize to anyone remotely resembling a right-winger. If you look at recen recipients, there is a distinct pattern to the Peace Prize decisions.

I can think of several right-wingers who should be considered for the prize because they have OPPOSED Bush in this sordid business. But there is every reason in the world not to give the Peace Prize to a fascist, even if that can't be said automatically about other sorts of "right-wingers." And Bush is a fascist. (Blair is not. But, like a certain former British Prime Minister from the other party, only worse, he is an appeaser.)

Anyway, to offer the Peace Prize to people for waging an aggressive war is topsy-turvy, smacking nauseously of Newspeak.

Brian, I posted the article solely for your enjoyment. Have a nice day.:lol:

Max, Brian,

Why was that article written, and how did you come upon reading it?
It was written by a Reuters correspondent in Oslo. Have you ever been to Oslo? The place is permanently comatose. Something like one lone Norsk nut saying two guys should be given a peace prize for waging a war sticks out from all the other boring news in the region.
It is more a candidate for an "Oddly Enough" section than a international news section.

On Strauss and Howe, they are sitting on this 3T 4T thing. It is kind of strange the way things have been going.

I encourage you to refrain from mathematics, like 1929 equals 2001.
I don't think it works that way. GIs, although one or two may still be on the Supreme Court, are out of the picture. However people like Hugh Downs and Andy Rooney still are hanging on . They are amazing aren't they?

I am a young guy, and the party is still going on for Gen X. The bars are still full, and although the WTC isn't downtown anymore, the war in Iraq just pissed alot of people off and made them more alienated and more disillusioned. It wasn't a time to come together, because as I have said before, 9-11 happened, but there haven't been any other moments for the US to "come together."

Rock'n'roll is still very alive and kicking. The ducktape and water thing vanished. I am leaning 3T as well. It is definitely not a full 4T.

Evan,

Now you are blaming the media for being too lazy. Weren't you the one that said that blaming the media is the last option in a dying argument?
Maybe the liberal media in Iraq are just biased, or maybe worse..maybe they are like HITLER :evil:

Gotcha

I would love to read your posts and digest your points, but they are loaded in emotive language like "The rest of the Iraqis are ecstatic" as if they are having a mass orgasm as they whack themselves on the head with swords ( a true sign of an emerging post-war democratic republic).

You know I don't like your leader Bush because he does the same thing. He cloaks his weak arguments in emotive language to play to the worried post 9-11 heart, instead of the constructive mind.

If you try to change your method of displaying your arguments, I will read more intensely.

By the way I am going to be a Dad and I am psyched,

Justin

Originally Posted by Justin-79

Max, Brian,

I am a young guy, and the party is still going on for Gen X. The bars are still full.

Yeah, but your party is soon to come to a crashing W A I L ! in a few months. By the way, when is the baby due?

Our poster child of Gen-X is hunkering down and circling the wagons. Must be a sign of 4T! :wink:

Baby is coming to a theater near you in mid-January 2004.

As for liberals and stuff look at this..

Mayor condemned for attack on Bush
Friday, May 9, 2003 Posted: 6:15 AM EDT (1015 GMT)

Livingstone: Unknown at the White House


LONDON, England (CNN) -- London Mayor Ken Livingstone has come under fire for comments about George W. Bush, in which he described the U.S. president as "corrupt."

The controversial left-wing leader made his attack on Thursday. He told a forum of 200 schoolchildren: "I think George Bush is the most corrupt president since Harding in the twenties. He is not the legitimate president."

He added: "This (The U.S. administration) really is a completely unsupportable government and I look forward to it being overthrown as much as I looked forward to Saddam Hussein being overthrown."

Later in Washington, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said: "First of all, I've never heard of the fellow. Second, I'm not going to dignify it with a response."

Livingstone's comments came as the city prepares to launch "Totally London" -- a month-long marketing drive to encourage visitors and generate business.

Some shoppers on the streets of London told CNN they thought the comments were ill-advised. "Americans are patriotic, we don't want to end up like France," one told CNN.

Steven Norris, the Conservative Party candidate for London mayor, told the UK Press Association: "It is utterly irresponsible for the mayor to mouth off about the U.S. president at a time when we need to do all we can to attract back American tourists."

And Bob Cotton of the British Hospitality Association told the London Evening Standard newspaper: "Irrespective of politics, the USA is a key partner for Britain and the people coming to Britain. I think now is the time for positive political leadership to help London."

Livingstone was elected London mayor in 2000 as an independent candidate having been expelled from the Labour Party.


That's our trusty CNN, working hard for us. How biased is this article?
It basically takes one man's comments and offers a counter argument. he title is that he is "condemned."
Condemned like what? Like a house about to be destroyed, or a man about to be hung?

It almost seems as if Steve Barrera AKA John Wayne AKA Evan Anderson works for CNN.

My favorite part is that Mayor Livingstone is "unknown at the White House." It doesn't surprise me.

"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."—To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.

Doh!

3T, 4T, or just plain common sense?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2003May7.html


Ministers Asked to Curb Remarks About Islam

By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 8, 2003; Page A03

Evangelical Christian leaders from across the country called yesterday for fellow ministers such as Jerry Falwell, Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson to stop making broad, inflammatory remarks about Islam.

"Since we are in a global community, no doubt about it, we must temper our speech," said the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, which organized the gathering of about 40 pastors, missionaries and heads of religious charities that are active in Muslim countries.

The conference at a Washington hotel represented the first organized effort by fundamentalist Christian groups to rein in their rhetoric and agree on guidelines about what -- and what not -- to say about Islam. The primary motivation, speakers made clear, is concern that remarks intended for a domestic constituency have reverberated through the Islamic world, inflamed Muslim governments, sparked riots, endangered Christian aid workers and made missionary efforts harder.

A consistent message at the four-hour session was that evangelical Christians should not sugarcoat their theological differences with Islam, but must make their dialogue more respectful.

"We're not compromising the truth here, we're not whitewashing another religion, but we need to learn to speak the truth in love and friendship," said Susan M. Michael, U.S. director of the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem, who called for building "compassionate evangelicalism."

While no one at the meeting defended Graham and the other preachers who have made incendiary remarks about Islam, several speakers criticized what they called "wishful thinking" and "oversimplifications" about Muslims from mainline Protestant leaders and President Bush, who have described Islam as a religion of peace.

"What we have to do as evangelical leaders is offer a constructive critique of these sweeping generalizations about Islam that are either fawning on one end, or hostile on the other," said Richard Cizik, vice president of the NAE.

For years, evangelical Christians have denounced restrictions on religious freedom and proselytizing in Islamic countries. But after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, prominent preachers began calling Islam a religion of violence and describing its 7th-century founder, Muhammad, in terms that Muslims found insulting.

Graham, who gave the invocation at Bush's inauguration, has called Islam an "evil" and "wicked" religion. Robertson portrayed Muhammad as "an absolute wild-eyed fanatic . . . a robber and brigand." Falwell called the Muslim prophet "a terrorist."

None of those ministers attended yesterday's conference. Nor did any Muslims.

"We felt that we weren't ready, that we had to have a conversation among ourselves first," said one of the organizers, Diane L. Knippers, president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, a conservative Christian think tank.

Knippers said that Graham was invited because his humanitarian relief organization, Samaritan's Purse, is a member of the National Association of Evangelicals, which unites 50 denominations with a total of 43,000 churches. But a spokesman for Graham said he could not attend because he was helping his father, the Rev. Billy Graham, preach at a revival "mission" -- formerly known as a "crusade" -- in San Diego this week.

The other ministers whose remarks have stirred controversy were not invited, Knippers said, because "we didn't think it was likely they could make it on short notice."

Haggard said he will invite Graham, Falwell, Robertson and other major television ministers, pastors of mega-churches and heads of evangelical denominations to a follow-up meeting within six months to refine a three-page set of proposed guidelines on Christian-Muslim dialogue. One calls for addressing "the deep differences between Islam and Christianity" without making "negative judgments about Islamic beliefs and practices" the "principal theme of the Christian participants in the dialogue."

A spokeswoman for Robertson said he was not available to comment yesterday.

Falwell, in a telephone interview, expressed irritation that he had not been told about yesterday's session. But he said the NAE was "trying to do something noble, and we will participate" in the future.

"Almost suddenly, the world has become very tiny, and every comment from any portion of the planet that is important will be heard in every other part of the planet the same day," he said. "So, yes, we do need to be more careful, and I hope we have all learned from what we say and do."

? 2003 The Washington Post Company

• "And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
  As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them
  that preach the gospel of peace,
  and bring glad tidings of good things!" --Romans 10:15

Originally Posted by madscientist

3T, 4T, or just plain common sense?

Ministers Asked to Curb Remarks About Islam

By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, May 8, 2003; Page A03

Evangelical Christian leaders from across the country called yesterday for fellow ministers such as Jerry Falwell, Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson to stop making broad, inflammatory remarks about Islam.

Answer: Common sense. The job of our three preachers of "gospel of peace" should be considered in the light of "love" and the meaning of true "free speech." This might be considered in a story told as follows:

"What exactly does he mean by freedom?"

Out of the blue, you encounter "that woman." No, not that one, but the one who suddenly sends your pulse racing and your heart pounding.

Finally you summon the courage to ask her out. She accepts. You plan your date, down to the most impressive detail. You?ll pick up at 7:00... dinner at 8... a stroll thru the park...

Then the big evening comes... the evening sparkles with that specialness reserved for only for those who can appreciate the meaning of love. Everything goes perfect as the evening wears on... it's relaxed and fun, the charm and enchantment seem almost unreal. Then it happened... the words came rolling off the tip of your tongue like a big heavy freight train, "One of my friends tells me you're a real b--ch."

A seven thousand mile stare of disbelief comes across her face. The silence is deafening as she suddenly finds herself shocked into utter reality. The only thing she can think to ask is, "Why would you say such a thing like that, now?"

Your reply is quick and pointed, "I?m just exercising my First Amendment right of free speech!"

Date over. Match, set and point irrelevant. You?ve certainly won the battle, but you have certainly lost the war, baby!

That?s what I think of "freedom." In Iraq, the "date" would?ve never even happened. In America, the dates are free, and so is the opportunity to make an ass out of ones self. You are utterly "free" to win the battle of "rights," and lose the war of the roses.

Originally Posted by ....

That?s what I think of "freedom." In Iraq, the "date" would?ve never even happened. In America, the dates are free, and so is the opportunity to make an ass out of ones self. You are utterly "free" to win the battle of "rights," and lose the war of the roses.

The freedom of speech does include the right to make a fool of oneself.

Just because a perspm the right to do something does not mean that it is right for that person to do it.

Rights are a minimum standard of behavior. It is up to the free person to make good choices. And to accept the consequences thereof. A free person cannot whine about the consequences.

Originally Posted by Max

By Alister Doyle

OSLO (Reuters) - A Norwegian parliamentarian nominated President Bush (news - web sites) and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) for the Nobel Peace Prize on Thursday, praising them for winning the war in Iraq (news - web sites).

'Sometimes it's necessary to use a small and effective war to prevent a much more dangerous war in the future,' Jan Simonsen, a right-wing independent in Norway's parliament, told Reuters.


'If nobody acted then Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) could have produced weapons of mass destruction and, in five or 10 years, could have used them against Israel,' he said.


An award to Bush and Blair would be a U-turn after the Nobel Committee awarded the 2002 prize to former U.S. President Jimmy Carter last October. At the time, the committee chairman called it a kick in the shins to Bush's Iraq policies as Carter had been calling for a diplomatic solution.

The Nobel Committee almost chose John Howard for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to bring independence to East Timor. However just before he was to be awarded the prize, The Tampa thing blew any chance of Howard receiving the prize. The Tampa affair was when a refugee boat was rescued by a Norwegian ship The Tampa and the Australia government refused the refugees and the boat landing on Australian shores.

Originally Posted by Justin-79

"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."?To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.

It doesn't matter that Drnovsek was from Slovenia, seeing as how Bush was talking to the "Slovak journalist". Of course, a Slovak is from Slovakia. So, Bush did not err here, unless you yourself typed "Slovak" by mistake instead of "Slovenian".

Originally Posted by AlexMnWi

Originally Posted by Justin-79

"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."?To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.

It doesn't matter that Drnovsek was from Slovenia, seeing as how Bush was talking to the "Slovak journalist". Of course, a Slovak is from Slovakia. So, Bush did not err here, unless you yourself typed "Slovak" by mistake instead of "Slovenian".

The only error here was on Bush. He told a Slovak journalist, "Your foreign minister came to Texas." The Slovene foreign minister came to Texas. And I've seen Slovenia - it is not the same country at all as Slovakia.

Originally Posted by John Taber 1972

Originally Posted by AlexMnWi

Originally Posted by Justin-79

"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."?To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.

It doesn't matter that Drnovsek was from Slovenia, seeing as how Bush was talking to the "Slovak journalist". Of course, a Slovak is from Slovakia. So, Bush did not err here, unless you yourself typed "Slovak" by mistake instead of "Slovenian".

The only error here was on Bush. He told a Slovak journalist, "Your foreign minister came to Texas." The Slovene foreign minister came to Texas. And I've seen Slovenia - it is not the same country at all as Slovakia.

How do we know that he had not met with the slovak foreign minister in the past?

Either way, Pres. Bush is an improvment on that over Gov. Bush...

http://www.newshax.com/modules/news/...php?storyid=51

(Standard disclaimers)



France boycotts Mayor McCheese in retaliation for US french fry boycott

Posted by Big Brother on 2003/3/9 1:57:14 (543 reads)
Paris, France (NewsHax wire)

French citizen groups have made a national call for all patriotic Frenchman to boycott "Mayor McCheese" in retaliation to US boycotts of french fries.



Here Mayor McCheese is photographed being dragged to Orly International airport to be placed on the next departing flight out of the country.

Says Etienne Boiselle, chairman of the French Cultural Protection League, says it is a matter of urgency for all Frenchmen to stand up to Yankee french fry threats, even if the French don't export nor even consume "french" fries. (more...)

"An appropriate retaliation to show our contempt is Messieur Mayor McCheese, whom we have sent home on an Air France jet this morning." Boiselle exclaimed. "You can find your so called Messieur McRoyal (Mayor McCheese in French) at your New York airport." Boiselle added as he spat several times.

President Bush and several Chiefs of Staff showed their support for a "thing" they describe as "A great American hero in the fight against terrorism.", and proclaimed today McDonalds day across the entire planet. Several countries objected to this forced holiday, and Bush issued the following statement in response:."

"International non-compliance with the observance of McDonalds day will be considered a hostile act," according to Bush spokesmen, "and will be met with most extreme measures. You are either with Mayor McCheese, or you are against him. And hamburgers are things found in free countries. Think about that."



Bush, the Mayor, and an unidentified Pentagon official are pictured testifying at the UN committee on ethical treatment of fictional characters this afternoon.

Mayor McCheese had no comment on the issue, issuing a statement through a spokesman that he regrets the French children now can never know the "...beauty and depth of his brilliant performances, in a career spanning decades."

Groups say civil liberties under fire from Patriot Act
By BILL STRAUB
May 9, 2003

updating with Senate agreement this week

Jason Halperin and a friend were enjoying dinner at an Indian restaurant off Times Square in New York on March 20 when five policemen, guns drawn and wearing bulletproof vests, stormed in and ordered patrons and employees to gather in the rear of the building.

The police, Halperin said, pointed their guns "indiscriminately" at the frightened diners and workers and proceeded to kick down doors to closets and bathrooms, "their fingers glued to their triggers."

Eventually, he said, 10 other law enforcement officials wearing suits entered the now-secured restaurant, some identifying themselves as members of the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

"I explained that we were just eating dinner and asked why we were being held," Halperin said. "I was told by the INS agent that we would be released once they had confirmation that we had no outstanding warrants and our immigration status was okayed."

Despite the customers' protests, Halperin said, an agent insisted they had the authority to detain them indefinitely. He quoted the agent as saying, "You are being held under the Patriot Act, following suspicion under a homeland security investigation."

Indeed, Halperin said he later learned, the federal government has the power under the law, passed in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist incidents, to hold individuals without a warrant.

"I quite honestly didn't know how much the Patriot Act could infringe upon your freedoms," said the 24-year-old Halperin who works for Doctors Without Borders. "I looked through it afterward, and I really was shocked."

Incidents like the one involving Halperin - subsequently released without charge - are attracting attention from organizations and defenders of civil liberties who feel the Patriot Act is quickly eroding individual rights and freedoms.

The law, passed with little debate by Congress under pressure from the White House and Justice Department to counter terrorism, provides investigators with greater access to an individual's personal records with little oversight and no requirement to notify the person whose records were accessed.

"This bill has simply missed the mark of maximizing security and, at the same time, minimizing any adverse effects on America's freedoms," said Laura Murphy, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington national office. Most Americans, she said, remain unaware that the measure gives the government "expanded power to invade our privacy, imprison people without due process and punish dissent."

The Patriot Act was pieced together by Justice Department officials in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the most devastating terrorist event in the nation's history. It was Attorney General John Ashcroft who ramrodded the legislation under orders from President Bush who told him to take the steps necessary to assure that similar tragedies never occur.

Eight days after the tragedy, Ashcroft dispatched to Congress what officially is known as "The Uniting and Strengthening of America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act" - more popularly known as the USA Patriot Act. Many of its provisions were contained in a 1996 anti-terrorism bill shelved over concerns that it infringed on individuals rights. But the new atmosphere following 9/11 made acceptance of the new bill a foregone conclusion.

Several proposals were changed and Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., then the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, managed to attach a sunset clause that brings a close to many of its provisions on Dec. 31, 2005. In October 2001, it passed the House 357-66 and the Senate 98-1, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., being the lone holdout.

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, the new chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has been campaigning to kill the sunset clause and make the bill's provisions permanent. That was scotched, at least for the time being, in a deal agreed to by Senate Democrats and Republicans this week. Hatch withdrew the proposal and, in exchange, Democrats agreed to get out of the way of a bill making it easier for the FBI to wiretap the phones of suspected terrorists.

Meanwhile, the Justice Department is tinkering with what is being called Patriot Act II, legislation that goes beyond its predecessor in providing new tools to law enforcement to battle terrorism.

"Our efforts have been carefully crafted to avoid infringing on constitutional rights while saving American lives," Ashcroft said soon after the Patriot Act became law. "To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve."

The White House is satisfied that the Patriot Act is having the desired effect.

Ari Fleischer, the president's press secretary, said the Patriot Act "has served a very, very useful purpose to law enforcement."

The administration, Fleischer said, has detected no problem with the manner in which it is being enforced.

"I think it was crafted with civil liberties in mind, crafted in an era when we have to also make certain where we're doing everything possible to fight terrorists," he said.

Regardless, the Patriot Act contains provisions that critics not only consider intrusive but expand police powers while providing little or no oversight. Under the law, for instance, the FBI has the authority to access medical records, library records and student records without a warrant and probable cause. That particular provision has drawn opposition from, among others, the American Library Association, which adopted a resolution saying some sections present "a present danger to the constitutional rights and privacy rights of library users."

The law also:

- Permits information obtained during a domestic criminal investigation to be distributed to other authorities, like the CIA and Secret Service, without judicial review and limits on how the agencies can use the information;

- Expands the use of covert searches, permitting federal authorities to enter a home or office, take photos and download computer files, without prior notification;

- Allows "forum shopping," permitting law enforcement authorities to apply for a warrant in any court in any jurisdiction in which an investigation is under way to approve a search warrant in any section of the country;

- Creates a new crime, domestic terrorism, which can be construed to permit federal authorities to arrest individuals for minor offenses, including political protests, resulting in heavy fines;

- Allows domestic spying by the CIA;

- Permits authorities to indefinitely detain non-citizens without meaningful judicial review.

- Extends wiretap authority by authorizing intelligence wiretaps that don't need to specify the phone to be tapped.

The law is subject to broad criticism, not just from liberal-leaning groups such as the ACLU and People for the American Way. The Eagle Forum, a group led by conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly, has weighed in against it, as have the Gun Owners for America and the Americans for Tax Reform.

"The president, the attorney general and those interested in maximizing individual liberty need to work together to guarantee that we can defend ourselves without altering the nature of the greatest society on earth," said David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union.

"The USA Patriot Act was passed in haste, (and) included ideas previously shelved by the Congress, like expanded civil forfeiture and roving wiretaps - ideas that law enforcement wanted, but could never get. When creating sound anti-terrorism legislation, the line should not be drawn at what is helpful for law enforcement, but at what is needed to protect us while preserving the proper balance between preserving civil liberties and our nation's national security needs."

http://www.latimes.com/la-na-kwame11...,3867242.story

etroit mayor's use of rap lures young voters and suggests the music has electoral juice.


By Geoff Boucher, Times Staff Writer


DETROIT -- Amid thundering rap music and the cheers of 8,000 young fans, the handsome star moved to center stage and, the way hip-hop heroes usually do, called out the name of that night's arena crowd. "What's up, Detroit? What's up, Detroit?"

The man at the microphone, though, was no rapper. He was Kwame M. Kilpatrick, the elected leader of this city and, according to his introduction at this rally, "America's hip-hop mayor." That description makes the 32-year-old Kilpatrick roll his eyes -- it is too limiting to his taste, too gimmicky for a man trying to cure problems in a famously troubled metropolis -- but he acknowledges there is some truth and power to the singular title.

Rap music is already one of the most potent forces in American youth culture, and its imprint has changed the rhythms in film, advertising, fashion and television. Some observers look here and wonder if this youthful mayor -- the one who had a rap campaign song and loves to quote the gritty street parables of Tupac Shakur -- represents the arrival of hip-hop in a major elected office. Could the administration of Kwame M. Kilpatrick become a template for using the music-based culture to marshal young votes?

At the arena appearance last month, for an event billed as a "hip-hop summit," the towering Kilpatrick hailed the local energy of rap, youth and inner-city political activism, and said it could be a model for urban hubs across the nation.

"Detroit," the mayor announced to loud cheers, "is a shining example in this world of revolutionary change." It was the type of speech that helped Kilpatrick energize his youthful constituency, as evidenced by a 40% increase in turnout among voters ages 18 to 40 from the previous mayoral race.

Still, campaigning and leading are different tasks. Kilpatrick's 16-month reign in the nation's 10th-largest city has been an uneven affair.

He has won points for a reorganization of the city's police department, the creation of volunteer programs and the reviving of a lucrative casino development deal. But he has also been criticized for running fast and loose with his facts, being disorganized and grinding the gears when it comes to dealing with personalities within Detroit's powerful, corporate old guard. One local political consultant, who asked not to be identified, said the mayor "tells everyone what he wants the truth to be, not what the actual truth is."

That may be partisan sniping, but Kilpatrick's critics, his supporters and even the mayor himself agree that the leader of Detroit is an impatient man.

To the rap fans at the Cobo Arena summit, though, Kilpatrick's words sound more like youthful urgency. Watching the crowd's embrace of Kilpatrick, visiting U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) wondered when hip-hop would find its way into other corners of U.S. politics.

"I think that this mayor has an opportunity to help forge a new political agenda, and he has an opportunity to bring a lot of young people into politics," Waters said. "Much of hip-hop culture is born out of rap about conditions of the cities, the problems, the police abuse and all of that. The rappers have helped to describe what's wrong in our society and the need to address it. That's a natural lead to politics and public policy. Now with people like the mayor becoming part of the political process, it should all come together, to converge."

There are skeptics. David Bositis, executive director of the Center for Joint Political and Economic Studies, said music can add sizzle to a campaign, but that hip-hop, at its core, is not in tune with activism. "Hip-hop is individualistic," Bositis said. "It seems to be fixated on material gain and enterprise. I don't think you see in this music the sort of themes or messages that bring people together for common cause."

Noted social critic Stanley Crouch is even more dismissive of rap-as-politics, although he is a fan of Kilpatrick's budding political career.

"What's political about a platinum necklace or rapping about a woman taking her drawers off? It's like Dick and Jane with dirty words; it's not a very complex art form or much of anything," Crouch said. "But this mayor is a very, very intelligent and impressive man. If he can use it to say something important, like to stop shooting each other or stay in school and stop being a co-conspirator in their own degradation, then I'm all for that."

The April 26 hip-hop summit in Detroit was a curious and intriguing event. It had a celebrity presence, including superstar and local hero Eminem. But instead of a concert, it was a series of panel discussions on the music industry and the political potential of hip-hop. It was the largest in a series of similar events organized chiefly by people working for record executive Russell Simmons.

In the 1980s, as co-founder of Def Jam Records, Simmons was a pioneering rap mogul, but these days most of his time is spent trying to create a fuller political life for himself and his genre.

In Detroit, Simmons and his group announced a new voter registration initiative with a goal of signing up 4 million young people in each of the next five years. Last week, the Rev. Al Sharpton, among the candidates seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, announced that Simmons would be tapping big-name rappers to help the presidential hopeful's own registration drive and campaign.

If young voters can be energized, Simmons said, Kilpatrick is the type of leader who will have a strong appeal to them. The mayor "is part of a generation that will be becoming the leadership in the years to come," Simmons said. "That leadership will have lived hip-hop."

Backstage at the Cobo Arena, with the booming sound of recorded rap audible through the walls, a camera crew from the BBC was sitting down with Kilpatrick to hear about the political backbeat in rap music. The mayor, as usual, was a fluid and charming subject with a winning smile and a message that bundled inner-city economic opportunity with youth activism and pragmatic leadership.

"There has been really no revolution in world history that's been started without young people," he told the foreign journalists. "Whether it was Tiananmen Square or it was the civil rights movement in America." Interestingly, Kilpatrick said that within the city's black community, the civil rights generation -- the generation of his parents -- has put up the most resistance to Kilpatrick as a candidate and then mayor. Senior citizens view him "as the grandkid who did it right," and the younger voters embrace him as a cultural peer. "The people in between, though, they think my generation isn't ready yet, that we didn't have to struggle."

Kilpatrick grew up on Detroit's west side, and as a youth his defining competitions were in two games: football and politics. The former would take the 6-foot-5 athlete to Florida A&M University, but when his professional aspirations fizzled, it was politics that gave him a career.

The son of a state representative and a Wayne County commissioner, he had learned plenty about Michigan politics. His mother, Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, now a congresswoman representing Detroit, showed him a devoted liberal in action, and his father, Bernard Kilpatrick, illustrated a savvy campaigner and hard-nosed politician. Kilpatrick took from both of their examples.

A stint as a schoolteacher and a tenure in the state Legislature prepared Kilpatrick even more and, in 2000, the national Democratic Party's leadership council included Kilpatrick as one of the country's 10 young Democrats to watch. By then he was giving motivational speeches at prisons, which he still does. Inevitably, he sees someone he knows from childhood or hears that another former high school teammate is a killer or killer's victim.

The grim realities he saw in the streets that stretched out from his parents' block are one of the reasons he has a passion for rap music. Instead of glorification of street violence, he views the music as a documentary of the nation's inner-city life, its struggles and its joys. He also sees the music as inherently political because of that documentary aspect. Parents should discuss rap with their kids, he said, not ban it from their homes.

"This is the music that speaks to young people and speaks to me," Kilpatrick said backstage, where the music's blare reverberated. "I am in the hip-hop generation, and it's the music I grew up with."

To political consultant Mike McKeon, that makes Kilpatrick a new type of lightning rod. "There is so much passion for this music and so much power in it, it can pull people together," McKeon said. "But, you know, the flip side is a lot of people will be instantly turned off by it."

The generation gap created by rap is the widest in pop music since the counterculture era of the 1960s, and the mayor of Detroit represents the most significant elected official to stand on the youth side of that gap.

More specifically, few elected politicians would appear on stage shoulder to shoulder with the controversial Eminem, as Kilpatrick did at the summit, or cite as their favorite new artist the rapper 50 Cent, an unrepentant street tough who has a penchant for getting shot.

Politicians have often used music to send messages about generations. When Bill Clinton played Fleetwood Mac's "Don't Stop" at rallies, it sent a signal about who he was and who he wasn't. When a campaigning Kilpatrick used a hip-hop song called "The Future ... Right Here, Right Now," it instantly set him apart from his opponent, a 68-year-old former police officer. When Kilpatrick won, he spent his victory night club-hopping in the city's night scene.

Waters said she knows many young, black politicians who are rap fans in private but, unlike Kilpatrick, will not publicly embrace the music. That boldness earned Kilpatrick the title of the "playah mayah" in the Source, the rap world's leading magazine, and likely works better in Detroit than any other major U.S. city. The city has a black population hovering above 80% and a youthful streak that stems from an ongoing population exodus (the city's population has halved in the last 50 years), not to mention a growing gallery of home-grown music stars, including Eminem, Kid Rock, D12 and Slum Village.

"Here, this was the place for the first hip-hop politician, it had to be," said Michael "MC Serch" Berrin, a former member of the rap group 3rd Bass and a radio personality in Detroit. "In 15 years, someone will be saying that hip-hop has become a political entity, and they'll look back to this city and this mayor."

The effusiveness about the charismatic Kilpatrick goes beyond his hip-hop constituency (the Chicago Tribune called him "the black Bill Clinton," for instance), but the creaking city of Detroit could easily bruise his political career. Crime, vast legions of condemned buildings, economic stagnation and racial tensions are not easily tamed, no matter what the soundtrack.

Bill Ballinger, editor of a statewide political newsletter, says Kilpatrick has done better than his critics expected and, after an early reputation for brashness, has broadened his reach. "It's been a mixed bag, but as a person he has impressed people, and there is reason to believe he will get some things done."

Kilpatrick has a hard time waiting: "Detroit can't continue to exist and not move along. I don't want to waste any more time. This is about where Detroit needs to be positioned to compete globally in the next 10 years."

Backstage at the summit, sitting on a couch between Waters and Reverend Run of Run DMC, Kilpatrick said that in his case, rap neither defines the politics nor the politician. It's just the music he likes and an instant -- and organic -- connection to young people.

"Hey, I won the seniors vote too, and nobody talks about that," Kilpatrick said. "But with them I'm singing gospel songs."

Detroit was unusual in going from a GI (Coleman Young) to a Silent (Dennis Archer) and then skipping Boomers to go directly to an Xer (Kwame Kilpatrick). I suppose this article reflects "His Xerness". 8)

Now, here is something that is quite counter to what the theory predicts. This is beyond post-seasonal or pre-seasonal. It's counterseasonal!
I wonder if it will bomb?

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

Las Vegas puts the sex back in the city

By Adam Goldman
The Associated Press



LAS VEGAS — For years, the Treasure Island hotel-casino, with its pyrotechnic pirate show and skull-and-bones marquee, carried a reputation as a Disney-esque destination for families.

But the show, like Las Vegas, is sailing off into another, altogether naughtier direction.

Casino operators will replace the popular family attraction with the "Sirens of TI" — sexy vamps who duel pirates in what Treasure Island calls a "sensual modern interpretation" of the old "Battle of Buccaneer Bay."

Treasure Island is not alone. Other Las Vegas hotels have added swinging adult clubs and risqu? revues to compete with a growing number of megasize strip clubs that are siphoning visitors and dollars away.

The recently opened $30 million Sapphire Gentlemen's Club sits on seven acres and boasts marble floors and plasma televisions. It has 10 sky boxes that allow customers a sweeping view of about 40,000 square feet devoted to topless dancing.

The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is airing four national commercials tantalizing would-be visitors with the not-so-subtle message that anything goes in Sin City.

Even the newest Cirque du Soleil show planned to open this summer at the New York-New York hotel in Vegas promises a "provocative exhibition of human sensuality, arousal and eroticism."

"It's becoming a major theme. All of Vegas is grabbing onto the sex thing," said University of Nevada at Las Vegas gambling professor Bill Thompson, who doesn't approve of the trend. "It could evolve into something that's ugly."

Las Vegas has never been Disneyland. Gamblers, mobsters and topless showgirls earned the city its reputation. But in recent years, a more family-friendly strain emerged.

Circus Circus gave the kids a place to play games while Mom fed the slots and Dad gambled at blackjack. Families found roller coasters, arcades, celebrity chefs, art galleries, even an amusement park amid the lights and lures.

Yet a trend toward cool and hip has fueled the city's renewed interest in the lewd and lascivious: With more single men in their 20s and 30s swinging into town, there is greater demand for clubs where waitresses wear lingerie.


One of the hottest spots in town — the Palms — hosts MTV shows and offers hotel rooms with strippers' poles. Caesars Palace has designated its Venus pool for topless sunbathing.

Treasure Island is catching the wave in recasting itself as "TI" and spicing up the pirate extravaganza.

Treasure Island President Scott Sibella described the old show, which attracts 4.5 million people a year, as "a little tired," and in need of a swashbuckling, $2 million facelift. The original show has been around since the hotel opened in 1993.

Alan Feldman, a spokesman for MGM Mirage, which operates Treasure Island, said the hotel's transformation should help sink unprofitable rumors that it was built for families.

A convention-and-visitors authority study shows only 10 percent of the people who visited Las Vegas in 2002 were traveling with people younger than 21.

"The notion of Las Vegas being a family place was mythical," Feldman said. "What Las Vegas has always been is bringing out the kid in the adult, not asking adults to bring their kids."

Whether the public gives the new image the heave-ho remains to be seen.

On a recent weekday, dozens of children and parents gathered to see the free pirate spectacle. Many had already gotten word that the sexy sirens were on their way. Not all were happy about it.

"I'd rather see it stay a family thing," said 40-year-old Heidi Jaggi, a mother of five from Lyman, Wyo. "I would rather not see scantily dressed women."

At the very beginning of that Detroit article, the first thing I thought when I found out the mayor was rapping for votes was "that must look very gay (gay in this case not meaning homosexual but rather, it should be interpreted as "lame")". Then I found out the guy was an Xer. Suddenly it no longer seemed stupid.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Now, here is something that is quite counter to what the theory predicts. This is beyond post-seasonal or pre-seasonal. It's counterseasonal!
I wonder if it will bomb?

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

Las Vegas puts the sex back in the city

By Adam Goldman
The Associated Press



LAS VEGAS ? For years, the Treasure Island hotel-casino, with its pyrotechnic pirate show and skull-and-bones marquee, carried a reputation as a Disney-esque destination for families.

But the show, like Las Vegas, is sailing off into another, altogether naughtier direction.

Casino operators will replace the popular family attraction with the "Sirens of TI" ? sexy vamps who duel pirates in what Treasure Island calls a "sensual modern interpretation" of the old "Battle of Buccaneer Bay."

Treasure Island is not alone. Other Las Vegas hotels have added swinging adult clubs and risqu? revues to compete with a growing number of megasize strip clubs that are siphoning visitors and dollars away.

The recently opened $30 million Sapphire Gentlemen's Club sits on seven acres and boasts marble floors and plasma televisions. It has 10 sky boxes that allow customers a sweeping view of about 40,000 square feet devoted to topless dancing.

The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is airing four national commercials tantalizing would-be visitors with the not-so-subtle message that anything goes in Sin City.

Even the newest Cirque du Soleil show planned to open this summer at the New York-New York hotel in Vegas promises a "provocative exhibition of human sensuality, arousal and eroticism."

"It's becoming a major theme. All of Vegas is grabbing onto the sex thing," said University of Nevada at Las Vegas gambling professor Bill Thompson, who doesn't approve of the trend. "It could evolve into something that's ugly."

Las Vegas has never been Disneyland. Gamblers, mobsters and topless showgirls earned the city its reputation. But in recent years, a more family-friendly strain emerged.

Circus Circus gave the kids a place to play games while Mom fed the slots and Dad gambled at blackjack. Families found roller coasters, arcades, celebrity chefs, art galleries, even an amusement park amid the lights and lures.

Yet a trend toward cool and hip has fueled the city's renewed interest in the lewd and lascivious: With more single men in their 20s and 30s swinging into town, there is greater demand for clubs where waitresses wear lingerie.


One of the hottest spots in town ? the Palms ? hosts MTV shows and offers hotel rooms with strippers' poles. Caesars Palace has designated its Venus pool for topless sunbathing.

Treasure Island is catching the wave in recasting itself as "TI" and spicing up the pirate extravaganza.

Treasure Island President Scott Sibella described the old show, which attracts 4.5 million people a year, as "a little tired," and in need of a swashbuckling, $2 million facelift. The original show has been around since the hotel opened in 1993.

Alan Feldman, a spokesman for MGM Mirage, which operates Treasure Island, said the hotel's transformation should help sink unprofitable rumors that it was built for families.

A convention-and-visitors authority study shows only 10 percent of the people who visited Las Vegas in 2002 were traveling with people younger than 21.

"The notion of Las Vegas being a family place was mythical," Feldman said. "What Las Vegas has always been is bringing out the kid in the adult, not asking adults to bring their kids."

Whether the public gives the new image the heave-ho remains to be seen.

I don't think this is anything new.

LV has always seemed to me as one humongous meat market. I visited Vegas frequently when I had family living there (brother, parents) from 1986-99, a period which saw tens of thousands of families relocating there from Southern California drawn by affordable housing. The late 80s-early 90s trend of creating family friendly venues seems to have been an effort to tap into this new market, rather than to draw vacationing families from other parts of the country.

But the primary allure of Vegas has always been the dream of sudden wealth, bountiful opportunities for sex, and the risk-taking inherent in both, set in an atmosphere of neon faux-glamour and glitz. This being the case, in a Fourth Turning, we would expect to see more and more single men in their 20s and 30s, descending on Vegas for one last good time before the world blows up. Considering that the children of the young parents who moved to LV 15 years ago are now mostly grown up, it doesn't surprise me at all the the gambling industry is going back to its seemier roots.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Now, here is something that is quite counter to what the theory predicts. This is beyond post-seasonal or pre-seasonal. It's counterseasonal!
I wonder if it will bomb?

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

Las Vegas puts the sex back in the city

By Adam Goldman
The Associated Press



LAS VEGAS ? For years, the Treasure Island hotel-casino, with its pyrotechnic pirate show and skull-and-bones marquee, carried a reputation as a Disney-esque destination for families.

But the show, like Las Vegas, is sailing off into another, altogether naughtier direction.

Casino operators will replace the popular family attraction with the "Sirens of TI" ? sexy vamps who duel pirates in what Treasure Island calls a "sensual modern interpretation" of the old "Battle of Buccaneer Bay."

Treasure Island is not alone. Other Las Vegas hotels have added swinging adult clubs and risqu? revues to compete with a growing number of megasize strip clubs that are siphoning visitors and dollars away.

The recently opened $30 million Sapphire Gentlemen's Club sits on seven acres and boasts marble floors and plasma televisions. It has 10 sky boxes that allow customers a sweeping view of about 40,000 square feet devoted to topless dancing.

The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is airing four national commercials tantalizing would-be visitors with the not-so-subtle message that anything goes in Sin City.

Even the newest Cirque du Soleil show planned to open this summer at the New York-New York hotel in Vegas promises a "provocative exhibition of human sensuality, arousal and eroticism."

"It's becoming a major theme. All of Vegas is grabbing onto the sex thing," said University of Nevada at Las Vegas gambling professor Bill Thompson, who doesn't approve of the trend. "It could evolve into something that's ugly."

Las Vegas has never been Disneyland. Gamblers, mobsters and topless showgirls earned the city its reputation. But in recent years, a more family-friendly strain emerged.

Circus Circus gave the kids a place to play games while Mom fed the slots and Dad gambled at blackjack. Families found roller coasters, arcades, celebrity chefs, art galleries, even an amusement park amid the lights and lures.

Yet a trend toward cool and hip has fueled the city's renewed interest in the lewd and lascivious: With more single men in their 20s and 30s swinging into town, there is greater demand for clubs where waitresses wear lingerie.


One of the hottest spots in town ? the Palms ? hosts MTV shows and offers hotel rooms with strippers' poles. Caesars Palace has designated its Venus pool for topless sunbathing.

Treasure Island is catching the wave in recasting itself as "TI" and spicing up the pirate extravaganza.

Treasure Island President Scott Sibella described the old show, which attracts 4.5 million people a year, as "a little tired," and in need of a swashbuckling, $2 million facelift. The original show has been around since the hotel opened in 1993.

Alan Feldman, a spokesman for MGM Mirage, which operates Treasure Island, said the hotel's transformation should help sink unprofitable rumors that it was built for families.

A convention-and-visitors authority study shows only 10 percent of the people who visited Las Vegas in 2002 were traveling with people younger than 21.

"The notion of Las Vegas being a family place was mythical," Feldman said. "What Las Vegas has always been is bringing out the kid in the adult, not asking adults to bring their kids."

Whether the public gives the new image the heave-ho remains to be seen.

I don't think this is anything new.

LV has always seemed to me as one humongous meat market. I visited Vegas frequently when I had family living there (brother, parents) from 1986-99, a period which saw tens of thousands of families relocating there from Southern California drawn by affordable housing. The late 80s-early 90s trend of creating family friendly venues seems to have been an effort to tap into this new market, rather than to draw vacationing families from other parts of the country.

But the primary allure of Vegas has always been the dream of sudden wealth, bountiful opportunities for sex, and the risk-taking inherent in both, set in an atmosphere of neon faux-glamour and glitz. This being the case, in a Fourth Turning, we would expect to see more and more single men in their 20s and 30s, descending on Vegas for one last good time before the world blows up. Considering that the children of the young parents who moved to LV 15 years ago are now mostly grown up, it doesn't surprise me at all the the gambling industry is going back to its seemier roots.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Now, here is something that is quite counter to what the theory predicts. This is beyond post-seasonal or pre-seasonal. It's counterseasonal!
I wonder if it will bomb?

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

Las Vegas puts the sex back in the city

By Adam Goldman
The Associated Press



LAS VEGAS ? For years, the Treasure Island hotel-casino, with its pyrotechnic pirate show and skull-and-bones marquee, carried a reputation as a Disney-esque destination for families.

But the show, like Las Vegas, is sailing off into another, altogether naughtier direction.

Casino operators will replace the popular family attraction with the "Sirens of TI" ? sexy vamps who duel pirates in what Treasure Island calls a "sensual modern interpretation" of the old "Battle of Buccaneer Bay."

Treasure Island is not alone. Other Las Vegas hotels have added swinging adult clubs and risqu? revues to compete with a growing number of megasize strip clubs that are siphoning visitors and dollars away.

The recently opened $30 million Sapphire Gentlemen's Club sits on seven acres and boasts marble floors and plasma televisions. It has 10 sky boxes that allow customers a sweeping view of about 40,000 square feet devoted to topless dancing.

The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is airing four national commercials tantalizing would-be visitors with the not-so-subtle message that anything goes in Sin City.

Even the newest Cirque du Soleil show planned to open this summer at the New York-New York hotel in Vegas promises a "provocative exhibition of human sensuality, arousal and eroticism."

"It's becoming a major theme. All of Vegas is grabbing onto the sex thing," said University of Nevada at Las Vegas gambling professor Bill Thompson, who doesn't approve of the trend. "It could evolve into something that's ugly."

Las Vegas has never been Disneyland. Gamblers, mobsters and topless showgirls earned the city its reputation. But in recent years, a more family-friendly strain emerged.

Circus Circus gave the kids a place to play games while Mom fed the slots and Dad gambled at blackjack. Families found roller coasters, arcades, celebrity chefs, art galleries, even an amusement park amid the lights and lures.

Yet a trend toward cool and hip has fueled the city's renewed interest in the lewd and lascivious: With more single men in their 20s and 30s swinging into town, there is greater demand for clubs where waitresses wear lingerie.


One of the hottest spots in town ? the Palms ? hosts MTV shows and offers hotel rooms with strippers' poles. Caesars Palace has designated its Venus pool for topless sunbathing.

Treasure Island is catching the wave in recasting itself as "TI" and spicing up the pirate extravaganza.

Treasure Island President Scott Sibella described the old show, which attracts 4.5 million people a year, as "a little tired," and in need of a swashbuckling, $2 million facelift. The original show has been around since the hotel opened in 1993.

Alan Feldman, a spokesman for MGM Mirage, which operates Treasure Island, said the hotel's transformation should help sink unprofitable rumors that it was built for families.

A convention-and-visitors authority study shows only 10 percent of the people who visited Las Vegas in 2002 were traveling with people younger than 21.

"The notion of Las Vegas being a family place was mythical," Feldman said. "What Las Vegas has always been is bringing out the kid in the adult, not asking adults to bring their kids."

Whether the public gives the new image the heave-ho remains to be seen.

I don't think this is anything new.

LV has always seemed to me as one humongous meat market. I visited Vegas frequently when I had family living there (brother, parents) from 1986-99, a period which saw tens of thousands of families relocating there from Southern California drawn by affordable housing. The late 80s-early 90s trend of creating family friendly venues seems to have been an effort to tap into this new market, rather than to draw vacationing families from other parts of the country.

But the primary allure of Vegas has always been the dream of sudden wealth, bountiful opportunities for sex, and the risk-taking inherent in both, set in an atmosphere of neon faux-glamour and glitz. This being the case, in a Fourth Turning, we would expect to see more and more single men in their 20s and 30s, descending on Vegas for one last good time before the world blows up. Considering that the children of the young parents who moved to LV 15 years ago are now mostly grown up, it doesn't surprise me at all the the gambling industry is going back to its seemier roots.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Now, here is something that is quite counter to what the theory predicts. This is beyond post-seasonal or pre-seasonal. It's counterseasonal!
I wonder if it will bomb?

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

Las Vegas puts the sex back in the city

By Adam Goldman
The Associated Press



LAS VEGAS ? For years, the Treasure Island hotel-casino, with its pyrotechnic pirate show and skull-and-bones marquee, carried a reputation as a Disney-esque destination for families.

But the show, like Las Vegas, is sailing off into another, altogether naughtier direction.

Casino operators will replace the popular family attraction with the "Sirens of TI" ? sexy vamps who duel pirates in what Treasure Island calls a "sensual modern interpretation" of the old "Battle of Buccaneer Bay."

Treasure Island is not alone. Other Las Vegas hotels have added swinging adult clubs and risqu? revues to compete with a growing number of megasize strip clubs that are siphoning visitors and dollars away.

The recently opened $30 million Sapphire Gentlemen's Club sits on seven acres and boasts marble floors and plasma televisions. It has 10 sky boxes that allow customers a sweeping view of about 40,000 square feet devoted to topless dancing.

The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is airing four national commercials tantalizing would-be visitors with the not-so-subtle message that anything goes in Sin City.

Even the newest Cirque du Soleil show planned to open this summer at the New York-New York hotel in Vegas promises a "provocative exhibition of human sensuality, arousal and eroticism."

"It's becoming a major theme. All of Vegas is grabbing onto the sex thing," said University of Nevada at Las Vegas gambling professor Bill Thompson, who doesn't approve of the trend. "It could evolve into something that's ugly."

Las Vegas has never been Disneyland. Gamblers, mobsters and topless showgirls earned the city its reputation. But in recent years, a more family-friendly strain emerged.

Circus Circus gave the kids a place to play games while Mom fed the slots and Dad gambled at blackjack. Families found roller coasters, arcades, celebrity chefs, art galleries, even an amusement park amid the lights and lures.

Yet a trend toward cool and hip has fueled the city's renewed interest in the lewd and lascivious: With more single men in their 20s and 30s swinging into town, there is greater demand for clubs where waitresses wear lingerie.


One of the hottest spots in town ? the Palms ? hosts MTV shows and offers hotel rooms with strippers' poles. Caesars Palace has designated its Venus pool for topless sunbathing.

Treasure Island is catching the wave in recasting itself as "TI" and spicing up the pirate extravaganza.

Treasure Island President Scott Sibella described the old show, which attracts 4.5 million people a year, as "a little tired," and in need of a swashbuckling, $2 million facelift. The original show has been around since the hotel opened in 1993.

Alan Feldman, a spokesman for MGM Mirage, which operates Treasure Island, said the hotel's transformation should help sink unprofitable rumors that it was built for families.

A convention-and-visitors authority study shows only 10 percent of the people who visited Las Vegas in 2002 were traveling with people younger than 21.

"The notion of Las Vegas being a family place was mythical," Feldman said. "What Las Vegas has always been is bringing out the kid in the adult, not asking adults to bring their kids."

Whether the public gives the new image the heave-ho remains to be seen.

I don't think this is anything new.

LV has always seemed to me as one humongous meat market. I visited Vegas frequently when I had family living there (brother, parents) from 1986-99, a period which saw tens of thousands of families relocating there from Southern California drawn by affordable housing. The late 80s-early 90s trend of creating family friendly venues seems to have been an effort to tap into this new market, rather than to draw vacationing families from other parts of the country.

But the primary allure of Vegas has always been the dream of sudden wealth, bountiful opportunities for sex, and the risk-taking inherent in both, set in an atmosphere of neon faux-glamour and glitz. This being the case, in a Fourth Turning, we would expect to see more and more single men in their 20s and 30s, descending on Vegas for one last good time before the world blows up. Considering that the children of the young parents who moved to LV 15 years ago are now mostly grown up, it doesn't surprise me at all the the gambling industry is going back to its seemier roots.