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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 286







Post#7126 at 07-02-2003 04:11 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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I read Hobsbawm's Book "The Age of Revolution" when researching for my book. It was very good and comprehensive. There he was called E.J. Hobsbawm; I didn't know he was an Eric. Good name! :-)

As usual, his observations are very astute.

Responding to the question Tristan asked, and to what the thread is about:

It may turn out the 9-11 was the catalyst. I had predicted based on my study of cycles and astrology that the USA would be involved in war in the late Summer of 2001, and a few months before I had gone so far as to state in an email to a colleague that the USA would be attacked. So I knew what was coming. I thought however that this would be a passing event and we would resume our 3T ways, which I hoped would also feature the continued rise, creative development and artful expression of the new spiritual culture in the new age, which had dawned in the Awakening. Unfortunately the powers-that-be had succeeded in the 1990s in putting our attention on nonsense, and so a lot of the potential of the times was dissipated. Now after 9-11, our creative energy has become stifled by our fears and even more conventional preoccupations. A long period until the "regeneracy" seems more likely now.

It is still possible if Bush is decisively defeated in the Fall of 2004 that a more creative period could begin for a few years, if the new leadership can get us out of the messes that Bush has created. This seems unlikely now. I did not predict that the war of 2001 would be the start of an unending period of imperialism and phoney patriotism with consequent eroding of democracy. But now that this is happening, it will take a near miracle now to reverse course this decade, considering the enormous costs that Bush policies have put upon us, in their deliberate actions to make any constructive activity impossible in America and to bankrupt the country.

Everyone should be clear though, that "terrorism," while it may function as a sort of ironic catalyst, is NOT the crisis we face. The crisis is the policies of the Bush adminstration itself. And they in turn are just the exaggeration of the policies already put in place by the Demoplicans the last 22 years-- to make America into a world-dominating empire, to end our social safety net and curtail all attempts to end poverty and inequality, to assault our environment and deplete our financial resources, to allow and promote unprecedented concentration of corporate power using slogans of "freedom," etc. Reagan started us on the road to this impending crisis, and Bush, Clinton, Gingrich et al merely led us further down the path. Now in the wake of 9-11 baby Bush is taking them into even worse and distorted directions even Reagan and Bush Sr. would not have contemplated, such as using imperial aggression as an excuse to destroy the civil liberties that make America at all worth defending.

If 9-11 is remembered as the catalyst, it will be because it sent these horrible policies into even higher gear, accelerating the arrival of the real crisis. A "regeneracy" will not appear until the real crisis is felt beyond denial; followed by a resolve to deal with this crisis. We can't be certain at this point, in fact, whether when the real crisis arrives, involving environmental and economic collapse and the possible end of democracy, that a constructive response will be made. Even further reaction and descent into fascism could happen instead, which will in turn only exacerbate and extend the problems of the real crisis. Recovery from these trends, if fascism comes, might not happen until the 2020s. The term "regeneracy" then will take on an ironic meaning, whether applied to circa 2005, or circa 2010-- as I predicted the real crisis and 4T would hit.







Post#7127 at 07-02-2003 04:31 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan Jones
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48925-2003Jun29.html

It looks like the state of California is going to broke very soon, how are the politicians and people of California dealing with this looming disaster in a Unraveling way or a Crisis way.

Didn't Strauss and Howe warn people that a looming governmental financial disaster was looming in the Crisis to come?
What will likely happen is that the movement to recall Gray Davis will be successful. Mr. Davis will be replaced by someone (whether Democrat or Republican is an open question) who will be forced to do something unpopular to everyone-- he will both slash government spending AND raise taxes to maintain essential services. And if that isn't enough....we may see something that S&H predicted in "T4T" -- the governor sending the National Guard to the IRS office in Fresno next Spring, and seize Californians' contributions to the Federal Income Tax. A big stretch, I agree....but very 4T.







Post#7128 at 07-02-2003 04:57 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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07-02-2003, 04:57 PM #7128
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Don't forget Kevin that the Democrats may not run anyone, leaving the field left of center to Peter Camejo of the Green Party. There is an outside chance that he could be elected. Then we could see what a real progressive could do about our economic situation. This could be a real model for the future, now that the Democrats are becoming increasingly irrelevant as patsies for Bush and the corporate Republican war-mongers.







Post#7129 at 07-02-2003 05:21 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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07-02-2003, 05:21 PM #7129
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Quote Originally Posted by eameece
Don't forget Kevin that the Democrats may not run anyone, leaving the field left of center to Peter Camejo of the Green Party. There is an outside chance that he could be elected. Then we could see what a real progressive could do about our economic situation. This could be a real model for the future, now that the Democrats are becoming increasingly irrelevant as patsies for Bush and the corporate Republican war-mongers.
That won't happen. If the powers that be certify that enough signatures are valid and confirms that the recall will be on the November ballot, then the Democrats will get someone to run. They are already klatching about who they would tap; I've heard Dianne Feinstein's name mentioned. I heard this on National Public Radio.







Post#7130 at 07-02-2003 10:01 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
I wish there was a way to find out what 1770-1773 were like. I've wondered about the Boston Massacre equaling 9/11 as well. I guess one "good" scenario (maybe) would be a catalyst in 2005 (in an era of conservatism) because that would bring about the reformist liberals, which may or may not be good. I don't know. I just don't know anymore.

Some things I like about Bush, and some things I don't like.
Welcome to real-world politics 101. I don't mean that condescendingly. Every elected official is going to be disappointing in some ways. Bush is no Ronald Reagan, but even Reagan was far from the ideal of the conservative movement. Some politicians come closer to what one wishes in office than others, but they never hit 100%.







Post#7131 at 07-02-2003 10:07 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Jenny Genser
Quote Originally Posted by eameece
Don't forget Kevin that the Democrats may not run anyone, leaving the field left of center to Peter Camejo of the Green Party. There is an outside chance that he could be elected. Then we could see what a real progressive could do about our economic situation. This could be a real model for the future, now that the Democrats are becoming increasingly irrelevant as patsies for Bush and the corporate Republican war-mongers.
That won't happen. If the powers that be certify that enough signatures are valid and confirms that the recall will be on the November ballot, then the Democrats will get someone to run. They are already klatching about who they would tap; I've heard Dianne Feinstein's name mentioned. I heard this on National Public Radio.
Oh, they'll run someone, all right! A lot of Democrats are being coy about this, not wanting (at least publically) to encourage the recall, but not wanting to close off the possibilities either.

Ditto the GOP. While Arnold S. is thinking about running for the GOP, and so is the wealthy politico who set it all in motion, there have also been rumors about Condoleeza Rice. On some political levels, the possibility to putting Rice in the Governor's Mansion makes GOP operatives drool.

One irony of the recall drive, though, is that I see shades of Brian Rush's hoped for alliance of social libs and social conservatives (among many others). The trouble is that this time, at least, they're allied for opposite reasons, libs mad at him for being not liberal enough, conservatives mad at him for being too liberal, both not trusting him at all.

It's the anti-moderate alliance!







Post#7132 at 07-02-2003 11:48 PM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
I wish there was a way to find out what 1770-1773 were like. I've wondered about the Boston Massacre equaling 9/11 as well. I guess one "good" scenario (maybe) would be a catalyst in 2005 (in an era of conservatism) because that would bring about the reformist liberals, which may or may not be good. I don't know. I just don't know anymore.

Some things I like about Bush, and some things I don't like.
Welcome to real-world politics 101. I don't mean that condescendingly. Every elected official is going to be disappointing in some ways. Bush is no Ronald Reagan, but even Reagan was far from the ideal of the conservative movement. Some politicians come closer to what one wishes in office than others, but they never hit 100%.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really care what party wins, as long as someone does, and, in the ensuing 4T, America wins.
1987 INTP







Post#7133 at 07-03-2003 01:49 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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07-03-2003, 01:49 AM #7133
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really care what party wins, as long as someone does, and, in the ensuing 4T, America wins.
America will only "win" if America changes and updates itself. The real crisis is not from enemies abroad but from failure at home. As in every previous 4T, it will be the changes we make to our society that will determine whether our 4T is successful. We have not started down that path at all; we are on the path to failure.







Post#7134 at 07-03-2003 01:51 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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07-03-2003, 01:51 AM #7134
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Quote Originally Posted by Jenny Genser
Quote Originally Posted by eameece
Don't forget Kevin that the Democrats may not run anyone, leaving the field left of center to Peter Camejo of the Green Party. There is an outside chance that he could be elected. Then we could see what a real progressive could do about our economic situation. This could be a real model for the future, now that the Democrats are becoming increasingly irrelevant as patsies for Bush and the corporate Republican war-mongers.
That won't happen. If the powers that be certify that enough signatures are valid and confirms that the recall will be on the November ballot, then the Democrats will get someone to run. They are already klatching about who they would tap; I've heard Dianne Feinstein's name mentioned. I heard this on National Public Radio.
It doesn't matter who mentions who. Dianne has said she is not running. Noone has said (s)he is running yet. The Demos want noone to run.







Post#7135 at 07-03-2003 02:40 AM by Rain Man [at Bendigo, Australia joined Jun 2001 #posts 1,303]
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Quote Originally Posted by eameece
It doesn't matter who mentions who. Dianne has said she is not running. Noone has said (s)he is running yet. The Demos want noone to run.
Why would the Californian democratic party want no one to run, if Gray Davis is recalled, unless they think any democratic hopeful would face a mauling from the voters, they would be nuts not put somebody into the governors race.







Post#7136 at 07-03-2003 02:44 AM by Rain Man [at Bendigo, Australia joined Jun 2001 #posts 1,303]
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Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Oh, they'll run someone, all right! A lot of Democrats are being coy about this, not wanting (at least publically) to encourage the recall, but not wanting to close off the possibilities either.

Ditto the GOP. While Arnold S. is thinking about running for the GOP, and so is the wealthy politico who set it all in motion, there have also been rumors about Condoleeza Rice. On some political levels, the possibility to putting Rice in the Governor's Mansion makes GOP operatives drool.

One irony of the recall drive, though, is that I see shades of Brian Rush's hoped for alliance of social libs and social conservatives (among many others). The trouble is that this time, at least, they're allied for opposite reasons, libs mad at him for being not liberal enough, conservatives mad at him for being too liberal, both not trusting him at all.

It's the anti-moderate alliance!
Crisis eras aren't a time for moderation or pleasing everybody (who ever is going in command politically during the Crisis will have a lot of enemies); people who are involved in politics during a Crisis era are playing for keeps and generally aren't interested in comprising the essentials of their agendas.







Post#7137 at 07-03-2003 09:52 AM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
One irony of the recall drive, though, is that I see shades of Brian Rush's hoped for alliance of social libs and social conservatives (among many others).
I thought that was economic liberals and social conservatives. How could social liberals and social conservatives ever ally, they are oil and water.

Take an issue like gay marriage. There is no compelling secular argument against it. The article I posted from NRO trying to establish such an argument shows just how weak the case really is. The real objection is religious (as Marc Lamb clearly pointed out). Homosexuality, like adultery, is explicitly proscribed in both the Old and New Testaments. It is irrational and even dishonest for a secular liberal to oppose gay marriage. It is a grevious sin for a religious conservative to support gay marriage.







Post#7138 at 07-03-2003 12:17 PM by Prisoner 81591518 [at joined Mar 2003 #posts 2,460]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
How could social liberals and social conservatives ever ally, they are oil and water.

Take an issue like gay marriage. There is no compelling secular argument against it. The article I posted from NRO trying to establish such an argument shows just how weak the case really is. The real objection is religious (as Marc Lamb clearly pointed out). Homosexuality, like adultery, is explicitly proscribed in both the Old and New Testaments. It is irrational and even dishonest for a secular liberal to oppose gay marriage. It is a grevious sin for a religious conservative to support gay marriage.
Quite true. Each side can only see the other as the ENEMY, with NO common ground at all on which to base any hypothetical alliance, however brief in duration or limited in goal. Either both sides will fade into irrelevance, and soon, or they will, between them, drag this country into Civil War II, more likely sooner than later.







Post#7139 at 07-04-2003 12:10 PM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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Actually, using more Microsoft Excel magic (as well as Pages 128-131 of T4T), it looks like 1770 to them at the time would be quite similar to 9/11 for us - a bit before the scheduled arrival, and just barely in time to be a catalyst, i.e. after generations have just entered their new phase of life (which at the time were much longer because turnings were longer). This provides support that 9/11 is equivalent to that, especially since recently, it just doesn't seem like a 4T enough to me. Not enough has changed, except that we are more jittery, and we seem to be in limbo (much like the colonists probably were between the massacre and the tea party). S&H probably had trouble in choosing which was the catalyst.
1987 INTP







Post#7140 at 07-04-2003 06:57 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Actually, using more Microsoft Excel magic (as well as Pages 128-131 of T4T), it looks like 1770 to them at the time would be quite similar to 9/11 for us - a bit before the scheduled arrival, and just barely in time to be a catalyst, i.e. after generations have just entered their new phase of life (which at the time were much longer because turnings were longer). This provides support that 9/11 is equivalent to that, especially since recently, it just doesn't seem like a 4T enough to me. Not enough has changed, except that we are more jittery, and we seem to be in limbo (much like the colonists probably were between the massacre and the tea party). S&H probably had trouble in choosing which was the catalyst.
S&H probably chose the BTP as the Catalyst over the Massacre because the generational lineup was better-- either event was certainly of Crisis magnitude. The same thing could happen to us if another event of 9/11 magnitude should occur in the next two to three years. Otherwise, history will almost surely record the Trade Center and Pentagon attacks as the beginning of the Fourth Turning.







Post#7141 at 07-04-2003 07:01 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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H.C.:

The trouble is that this time, at least, they're allied for opposite reasons, libs mad at him for being not liberal enough
Not so. We're mad at him 'cause he's crooked as a dog's hind leg. It has nothing to do with his political stances, which are generally OK if not ideal.

Mike is right, btw. It's an environmentalist/evangelical alliance I'm expecting. Environmentalism is an economic liberal issue, not a social issue; the social issues will be downplayed.







Post#7142 at 07-04-2003 08:21 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Actually, using more Microsoft Excel magic (as well as Pages 128-131 of T4T), it looks like 1770 to them at the time would be quite similar to 9/11 for us - a bit before the scheduled arrival, and just barely in time to be a catalyst, i.e. after generations have just entered their new phase of life (which at the time were much longer because turnings were longer). This provides support that 9/11 is equivalent to that, especially since recently, it just doesn't seem like a 4T enough to me. Not enough has changed, except that we are more jittery,
Even the 'jittery' isn't universal. In some parts of the country, they're not even paying any attention to the color alerts, or the news from the mideast, it's become background noise.







Post#7143 at 07-04-2003 08:24 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush
H.C.:

The trouble is that this time, at least, they're allied for opposite reasons, libs mad at him for being not liberal enough
Not so. We're mad at him 'cause he's crooked as a dog's hind leg. It has nothing to do with his political stances, which are generally OK if not ideal.
Oh, I don't doubt that. But based on things I've read/seen/spoken of elsehwhere, I do have reason to suspect that there are people on both sides in California who are thinking about as I described. I never meant to imply that those are the primary motivations of the recall.







Post#7144 at 07-04-2003 08:31 PM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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Today as we remember an earlier King George, let us honor our current King George. ("When I'm the president, I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation for anything I do" -- HRH George (W. Bush) II)



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ts_2&printer=1

(Standard disclaimers)



2 Britons May Face U.S. Military Tribunal

Fri Jul 4, 1:22 PM ET
By MICHAEL McDONOUGH, Associated Press Writer

LONDON - Two Britons and an Australian in U.S. custody are among six terror suspects who will likely face U.S. military trial, British and Australian officials said Friday.

British officials said they would "vigorously" seek access to its citizens, Moazzam Begg, 35, and Feroz Abbasi, 23, who were among those designated by U.S. authorities as the first candidates for trial before a military tribunal.

Australian national David Hicks is also in the group, said Australia's Federal Attorney General Daryl Williams. At least half the designated terror suspects are from countries that joined the U.S.-led war against Iraq (news - web sites).

The three are among about 680 prisoners at the U.S. Navy (news - web sites) base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Hicks' lawyer, Stephen Kenny, said in Australia that his client faced "an American kangaroo court," where his fate will ultimately be in the hands of President Bush (news - web sites).

The tribunals will have three to seven military officers acting as judge and jury. Convictions could be by a majority vote, but a death sentence would have to be unanimous.

Decisions by the tribunals can be appealed only to a panel of judges appointed by the U.S. Defense Department, and then directly to the president.

Amnesty International said the selection of the six was "another retrograde step for human rights in the U.S.-led 'war against terrorism' and will further undermine the U.S.A.'s claims to be a country that champions the rule of law."

U.S. officials had refused to identify the six prisoners, but said all ? like the other prisoners at Guantanamo Bay ? were suspected of involvement with the al-Qaida, the Taliban or some other terrorist group. The next step is for a prosecutor to draft charges against the men.

Some of the six may have attended terrorist training camps and others were involved in raising money and recruiting for terrorist groups, Pentagon (news - web sites) officials said.

Only non-U.S. citizens can face a tribunal under Bush's order creating the military trials.

Relatives of the two British detainees said they feared the trials would be unfair.

"The trial will be military, the judge will be military and yet my son is a civilian," said Moazzam Begg's father, Azmat Begg. "This is just not right.

"My son was never involved in al-Qaida," he said. "He is a proper, family man."

Abbasi's attorney said his client's mother, Zumrati Juma, was "extremely upset and very fearful for her son."

"He was only 19 when he left home and it is impossible to believe that her son could have been a senior member of any organization," lawyer Louise Christian added.

"We are horrified that the British government is allowing this to happen."

Foreign Office minister Baroness Symons said the British government would "vigorously" pursue issues relating to access to lawyers, evidence and a possible appeals procedure for the two detainees.

"I think there are issues about the principle of using military commissions," Symons told British Broadcasting Corp. radio. "It isn't something we would be able to do in this country, because of course we would want to ensure that there is a separation between government on one hand and the judiciary on the other."

Begg has been held at Guantanamo Bay for nearly five months, and was previously detained in Afghanistan (news - web sites) for a year, according to the London-based Fair Trials Abroad. It said the father of four was seized in Pakistan in February 2002 and may have been the victim of mistaken identity.

Abbasi has been held at Guantanamo Bay for 18 months, his lawyer said. His mother, who last saw him in December 2000, has described him as a computer student who could not have become involved in terrorism.

Begg and Abbasi are among nine British citizens at the maximum-security Camp Delta in Cuba, the Foreign Office said.

The director of Fair Trials Abroad, Stephen Jakobi, said the U.S. tribunals were designed to secure convictions.

"The U.S. Department of Defense (news - web sites) will appoint the judges and prosecutors, control the defense and make up the rules of the trial," Jakobi said. "It appears to have only one objective ? to secure a conviction."







Post#7145 at 07-04-2003 08:50 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Actually, using more Microsoft Excel magic (as well as Pages 128-131 of T4T), it looks like 1770 to them at the time would be quite similar to 9/11 for us - a bit before the scheduled arrival, and just barely in time to be a catalyst, i.e. after generations have just entered their new phase of life (which at the time were much longer because turnings were longer). This provides support that 9/11 is equivalent to that, especially since recently, it just doesn't seem like a 4T enough to me. Not enough has changed, except that we are more jittery,
Even the 'jittery' isn't universal. In some parts of the country, they're not even paying any attention to the color alerts, or the news from the mideast, it's become background noise.
Here in Ohio, the Mideast and color alerts have indeed become background noise. People are scared as all hell about the economy, though. Until The Events Of September 11th, Columbus had an unemployment rate of around 1% -- now it's like 6%, possibly 7%.







Post#7146 at 07-04-2003 09:05 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parker '59
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Actually, using more Microsoft Excel magic (as well as Pages 128-131 of T4T), it looks like 1770 to them at the time would be quite similar to 9/11 for us - a bit before the scheduled arrival, and just barely in time to be a catalyst, i.e. after generations have just entered their new phase of life (which at the time were much longer because turnings were longer). This provides support that 9/11 is equivalent to that, especially since recently, it just doesn't seem like a 4T enough to me. Not enough has changed, except that we are more jittery,
Even the 'jittery' isn't universal. In some parts of the country, they're not even paying any attention to the color alerts, or the news from the mideast, it's become background noise.
Here in Ohio, the Mideast and color alerts have indeed become background noise. People are scared as all hell about the economy, though. Until The Events Of September 11th, Columbus had an unemployment rate of around 1% -- now it's like 6%, possibly 7%.
Where I live, there was a scare several months ago about a major job loss, which we dodged (at least for the moment). OTOH, across the river in Kentucky, there have been a number of factory jobs vanishing over the last couple of years.

I'm not sure how much of this can really be laid at the door of 911, though. The current downturn started in spring of 2000.







Post#7147 at 07-04-2003 09:07 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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H.C., I think it's safe to say that Richard Riordan is a bit to the right of Gray Davis (though not drastically so). And if the GOP had had the sense to nominate him last year, he'd be governor now. I'd have voted for him myself.

It is not Davis' politics that's the problem with his party. He's a very mainstream Democrat, not even as far to the right as Clinton.

But he's even more dishonest.







Post#7148 at 07-04-2003 09:13 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Where I live, there was a scare several months ago about a major job loss, which we dodged (at least for the moment). OTOH, across the river in Kentucky, there have been a number of factory jobs vanishing over the last couple of years.

I'm not sure how much of this can really be laid at the door of 911, though. The current downturn started in spring of 2000.
I suppose I agree...the dotcom collapse in March 2000 started the recession rolling, though 9/11 certainly accelerated the recession that affects the entire country, not just Ohio. Then again, I am certain that the E2K debacle is at least partially to blame for the dotcom collapse happening when it did (though it surely would have happened eventually). The fact that it took the SCOTUS to sort out the mess didn't exactly inspire confidence in the future.

So...does that mean that future posters to this site will look back on E2K as the REAL Catalyst??? Anything is possible.







Post#7149 at 07-05-2003 01:12 AM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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After reading the chapter in the book about the third turning, I am still pretty much convinced that we are in the jittery (or if not jittery, most people still think "yecch" when thinking about the state of world affairs (but don't do much about it)) last stage of the 3T, on the brink of the catalyst.
Here's a metaphor for it: The 3T and the 4T are on opposite sides of a chain-link fence. America has climbed to the top of the fence and is stepping up to the top, still on the 3T side but staring 4T right in the face. The next event will push America over the edge.

The talk of the economy reminds me, the other day I went online to find out unemployment rates for metro areas and states (these were May numbers, and June numbers are not yet available to the metro area level).

STATES
Highest Unemployment Rate: Oregon: 7.8% (of which Portland has the worst unemployment rate, 8%)
Lowest Unemployment Rate: North & South Dakota: 2.9%

METROS
5 highest unemployment rates:
Yuma, AZ: 30.6% (WOW)
Yuba City, CA: 14.1%
Merced, CA: 14.0%
Visalia, CA: 13.5%
Fresno, CA: 13.3%

5 lowest unemployment rates:
Columbia, MO: 1.9%
Fargo, ND: 2.0%
Bryan, TX: 2.1%
Gainesville, FL: 2.3%
Bloomington, IL: 2.3%

What on earth happened in Yuma? Well, these numbers aren't seasonally adjusted, so I suppose that has something to do with it. Both in 2002 and 2003, the unemployment rate jumped about 10 points between April and May. Does anyone know what makes it go up so much?

BTW, Columbus's rate is 4.9%, again, not seasonally adjusted.
1987 INTP







Post#7150 at 07-05-2003 03:18 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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07-05-2003, 03:18 AM #7150
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
Vancouver, Washington
Posts
8,275

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
METROS
5 highest unemployment rates:
Yuma, AZ: 30.6% (WOW)
Yuba City, CA: 14.1%
Merced, CA: 14.0%
Visalia, CA: 13.5%
Fresno, CA: 13.3%

What on earth happened in Yuma? Well, these numbers aren't seasonally adjusted, so I suppose that has something to do with it. Both in 2002 and 2003, the unemployment rate jumped about 10 points between April and May. Does anyone know what makes it go up so much?
I would guess seasonal agricultural work.
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