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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 287







Post#7151 at 07-05-2003 03:38 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
After reading the chapter in the book about the third turning, I am still pretty much convinced that we are in the jittery (or if not jittery, most people still think "yecch" when thinking about the state of world affairs (but don't do much about it)) last stage of the 3T, on the brink of the catalyst.
Here's a metaphor for it: The 3T and the 4T are on opposite sides of a chain-link fence. America has climbed to the top of the fence and is stepping up to the top, still on the 3T side but staring 4T right in the face. The next event will push America over the edge.

The talk of the economy reminds me, the other day I went online to find out unemployment rates for metro areas and states (these were May numbers, and June numbers are not yet available to the metro area level).

STATES
Highest Unemployment Rate: Oregon: 7.8% (of which Portland has the worst unemployment rate, 8%)
Lowest Unemployment Rate: North & South Dakota: 2.9%

BTW, Columbus's rate is 4.9%, again, not seasonally adjusted.
OK, I was confusing it with the rate for Ohio as a whole, which according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics was 6.1% in May 2003 but may be higher by now.

How ironic it is that after being out of work since September 2002, the job I ended up landing is in the Portland, Oregon area.







Post#7152 at 07-05-2003 06:18 AM by Rain Man [at Bendigo, Australia joined Jun 2001 #posts 1,303]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi


METROS
5 highest unemployment rates:
Yuma, AZ: 30.6% (WOW)
Yuba City, CA: 14.1%
Merced, CA: 14.0%
Visalia, CA: 13.5%
Fresno, CA: 13.3%
Those levels of uneployment are comprable to regions in Australia which have the highest unemployment, those regions have a unemployment rate from 15-20%. On the other hand there are a few regions (like Sydney's North Shore or Griffith region of New South Wales) have unemployment as low as 2%, my region has a unemployment rate of 4-5%, compaired to 6% nationally.







Post#7153 at 07-05-2003 12:55 PM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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The unemployment rate for Ohio in May was 5.8% in May, and June numbers won't be out until very early August. The may data for metro areas and states only came out on Wednesday.

In Minnesota it is 3.8%, and in Wisconsin it is 5.1%

Regionally (these ARE seasonally-adjusted, like the regular US unemployment rate is):
The midwest has the lowest unemployment at 5.5%, and the west has the highest, at 6.4%

If you go by subregions, the Pacific states have the highest unemployment at 6.8%, and the West North Central states have the lowest at 4.5%.
1987 INTP







Post#7154 at 07-05-2003 12:57 PM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan Jones
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi


METROS
5 highest unemployment rates:
Yuma, AZ: 30.6% (WOW)
Yuba City, CA: 14.1%
Merced, CA: 14.0%
Visalia, CA: 13.5%
Fresno, CA: 13.3%
Those levels of uneployment are comprable to regions in Australia which have the highest unemployment, those regions have a unemployment rate from 15-20%. On the other hand there are a few regions (like Sydney's North Shore or Griffith region of New South Wales) have unemployment as low as 2%, my region has a unemployment rate of 4-5%, compaired to 6% nationally.
That sounds a lot like where I live. Nationally is 6.4%, where I live it is 3.9%, some areas have 1.9%, and of course, excluding Yuma, some areas are over 10%.
1987 INTP







Post#7155 at 07-05-2003 05:11 PM by Prisoner 81591518 [at joined Mar 2003 #posts 2,460]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush
It's an environmentalist/evangelical alliance I'm expecting. Environmentalism is an economic liberal issue, not a social issue; the social issues will be downplayed.
I still think that if your side wins, then the least that will happen on the Right will be the near-total withdrawal of evangelical Christians, and other like-minded persons, from all active political involvement, even including voting, as part of an attempt to re-insulate themselves as much as possible from an outside world which they will (rightly or otherwise) perceive as having become even more implacably hostile towards people like them than before - assuming they are allowed to do so, that is. As they did before, during the last 4T.







Post#7156 at 07-06-2003 01:50 PM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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Reagan era troops were disciplined. These troops described below are an absolute disgrace. Is it possible that 4T troops have been overly romanticized through history and typically are undisciplined and dishonorable whereas 3T troops are disciplined and honorable? After all, of the four generational archetypes we look to Nomads for honor. But it is not hard to imagine that things were this bad through the laxity of the the Clinton years. So perhaps this is merely more evidence of the decline of the American Empire going into this 4T.



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...463062,00.html

(Standard disclaimers)



Grounding Planes the Wrong Way
Coalition troops looted and vandalized the Iraqi airport that now must be rebuilt

By SIMON ROBINSON/BAGHDAD


Sunday, Jul. 06, 2003
Much has been written about how Iraqis complicated the task of rebuilding their country by looting it after Saddam Hussein's regime fell. In the case of the international airport outside Baghdad, however, the theft and vandalism were conducted largely by victorious American troops, according to U.S. officials, Iraqi Airways staff members and other airport workers. The troops, they say, stole duty-free items, needlessly shot up the airport and trashed five serviceable Boeing airplanes. "I don't want to detract from all the great work that's going into getting the airport running again," says Lieut. John Welsh, the Army civil-affairs officer charged with bringing the airport back into operation. "But you've got to ask, If this could have been avoided, did we shoot ourselves in the foot here?"

What was then called Saddam International Airport fell to soldiers of the 3rd Infantry Division on April 3. For the next two weeks, airport workers say, soldiers sleeping in the airport's main terminal helped themselves to items in the duty-free shop, including alcohol, cassettes, perfume, cigarettes and expensive watches. Welsh, who arrived in Iraq in late April, was so alarmed by the thievery that he rounded up a group of Iraqi airport employees to help him clean out the shop and its storage area. He locked everything in two containers and turned them over to the shop's owner.

"The man had tears in his eyes when I showed him what we had saved," says Welsh. "He thought he'd lost everything."

Coalition soldiers also vandalized the airport, American sources say. A boardroom table that Welsh and Iraqi civil-aviation authority officials sat around in early May was, a week later, a pile of glass and splintered wood. Terminal windows were smashed, and almost every door in the building was broken, says Welsh. A TIME photographer who flew out of the airport on April 12 saw wrecked furniture and English-language graffiti throughout the airport office building as well as a sign warning that soldiers caught vandalizing or looting would be court-martialed. "There was no chance this was done by Iraqis" before the airport fell, says a senior Pentagon official. "The airport was secure when this was done." Iraqi airport staff concede that some of the damage was inflicted by Iraqi exiles attached to the Army, but these Iraqis too were under American control.

The airplanes suffered the greatest damage. Of the 10 Iraqi Airways jets on the tarmac when the airport fell, a U.S. inspection in early May found that five were serviceable: three 727s, a 747 and a 737. Over the next few weeks, U.S. soldiers looking for comfortable seats and souvenirs ripped out many of the planes' fittings, slashed seats, damaged cockpit equipment and popped out every windshield. "It's unlikely any of the planes will fly again," says Welsh, a reservist who works for the aviation firm Pratt & Whitney as a quality-control liaison officer to Boeing.

U.S. estimates of the cost of the damage and theft begin at a few million dollars and go as high as $100 million. Airport workers say even now air conditioners and other equipment are regularly stolen. "Soldiers do this stuff all the time, everywhere. It's warfare," says a U.S. military official. "But the conflict was over when this was done. These are just bored soldiers." Says Welsh: "If we're here to rebuild the country, then anything we break we have to fix. We need to train these guys to go from shoot-it-up to securing infrastructure. Otherwise we're just making more work for ourselves. And we have to pay for it."


From the Jul. 14, 2003 issue of TIME magazine







Post#7157 at 07-07-2003 01:05 AM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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Or maybe it's that stuff like this has always been going on and that the media only reports it when the story benefits whatever side the media supports?
1987 INTP







Post#7158 at 07-07-2003 01:30 AM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Reagan era troops were disciplined. These troops described below are an absolute disgrace. Is it possible that 4T troops have been overly romanticized through history and typically are undisciplined and dishonorable whereas 3T troops are disciplined and honorable? After all, of the four generational archetypes we look to Nomads for honor. But it is not hard to imagine that things were this bad through the laxity of the the Clinton years. So perhaps this is merely more evidence of the decline of the American Empire going into this 4T.


From the Jul. 14, 2003 issue of TIME magazine
Always assuming it even happened the way they tell it.

I'm not saying it didn't, or couldn't have, but any story critical of the military from Time, Newsweek, or U.S. News must be taken with a grain of salt, until corroborating evidence is available. This is especially true of Time.

Our media is biased against the military, and no matter what the mission or who the president is, that should be borne in mind.







Post#7159 at 07-07-2003 01:50 AM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Reagan era troops were disciplined. These troops described below are an absolute disgrace. Is it possible that 4T troops have been overly romanticized through history and typically are undisciplined and dishonorable whereas 3T troops are disciplined and honorable? After all, of the four generational archetypes we look to Nomads for honor. But it is not hard to imagine that things were this bad through the laxity of the the Clinton years. So perhaps this is merely more evidence of the decline of the American Empire going into this 4T.


From the Jul. 14, 2003 issue of TIME magazine
Always assuming it even happened the way they tell it.
Nope. But Kool-Aid drinkers will always ridicule any report which reflects negatively upon their administration (as you are doing now).

I'm not saying it didn't, or couldn't have, but any story critical of the military from Time, Newsweek, or U.S. News must be taken with a grain of salt, until corroborating evidence is available. This is especially true of Time.
Yes, yes. By all means, take the quoted comments of "Lieut. John Welsh, the Army civil-affairs officer charged with bringing the airport back into operation" with a grain of salt. After all, he may be fictitious character made up by the Time editors.







Post#7160 at 07-07-2003 02:13 AM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Reagan era troops were disciplined. These troops described below are an absolute disgrace. Is it possible that 4T troops have been overly romanticized through history and typically are undisciplined and dishonorable whereas 3T troops are disciplined and honorable? After all, of the four generational archetypes we look to Nomads for honor. But it is not hard to imagine that things were this bad through the laxity of the the Clinton years. So perhaps this is merely more evidence of the decline of the American Empire going into this 4T.


From the Jul. 14, 2003 issue of TIME magazine
Always assuming it even happened the way they tell it.
Nope. But Kool-Aid drinkers will always ridicule any report which reflects negatively upon their administration (as you are doing now).
No, I'm questioning the source. It may well be true, as I said, and if so it's gargantuan screw-up, possibly worthy of some courts-martial. But I know from experience that the much of the media are not trustworthy on this subject.

I'm not saying it didn't, or couldn't have, but any story critical of the military from Time, Newsweek, or U.S. News must be taken with a grain of salt, until corroborating evidence is available. This is especially true of Time.
Yes, yes. By all means, take the quoted comments of "Lieut. John Welsh, the Army civil-affairs officer charged with bringing the airport back into operation" with a grain of salt. After all, he may be fictitious character made up by the Time editors.
Seadog, I wouldn't rule out them making up the quotes. Remember CNN and Operation Tailwind, which Time was also involved with. I also wouldn't rule out that them twisting the whole story to fit their preferred slant, they've done it before. Note that they did it to the armed services under Clinton, Bush I, and Reagan as well.







Post#7161 at 07-07-2003 07:49 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
The unemployment rate for Ohio in May was 5.8% in May, and June numbers won't be out until very early August. The may data for metro areas and states only came out on Wednesday.

In Minnesota it is 3.8%, and in Wisconsin it is 5.1%

Regionally (these ARE seasonally-adjusted, like the regular US unemployment rate is):
The midwest has the lowest unemployment at 5.5%, and the west has the highest, at 6.4%

If you go by subregions, the Pacific states have the highest unemployment at 6.8%, and the West North Central states have the lowest at 4.5%.
This is interesting because it probably mirrors the bursting of the "tech bubble" back in March of 2000, when the NASDAQ crashed. Obviously, while 6.8% ain't all that bad, this important sector has yet to recover to it's former glory. But I strongly suspect that it will have to if the U.S. is to really recover in this information economy.

I could be wrong, though.







Post#7162 at 07-07-2003 08:33 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Cut on the bias

Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Our media is biased against the military, and no matter what the mission or who the president is, that should be borne in mind.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0707/p02s01-woiq.html


Troop morale in Iraq hits 'rock bottom'
Soldiers stress is a key concern as the Army ponders whether to send more forces....


The open-ended deployments in Iraq are lowering morale among some ground troops, who say constantly shifting time tables are reducing confidence in their leadership. "The way we have been treated and the continuous lies told to our families back home has devastated us all," a soldier in Iraq wrote in a letter to Congress.

Security threats, heat, harsh living conditions, and, for some soldiers, waiting and boredom have gradually eroded spirits. An estimated 9,000 troops from the 3rd Infantry Division - most deployed for at least six months and some for more than a year - have been waiting for several weeks, without a mission, to return to the United States, officers say.

In one Army unit, an officer described the mentality of troops. "They vent to anyone who will listen. They write letters, they cry, they yell. Many of them walk around looking visibly tired and depressed.... We feel like pawns in a game that we have no voice [in]."


By Ms. Ann Scott Tyson from the 7 July 2003 number of the Christian Science Monitor for your disbelief or belief. HTH







Post#7163 at 07-07-2003 08:55 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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In for a penny, in for a ... (well ,another penny)

The reason the troops need this kind of support from home is that the Pentagon went into Iraq too light, expecting it would be Slam Bam Goodbye Saddam followed by a victory parade down Fifth Avenue. Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and their tech-loving crew believed their own simplistic propaganda and now our soldiers are paying the price on a complicated insurgency battlefield without the logistical depth to do the job.


It's Basic Leadership 101 to look out for the troops. Surely with the amount of green being spread around the brass could put more of the budget to what that entails: Not only training 'em hard to keep 'em alive in the toughest contest yet invented by supposedly civilized men, but also keeping their bellies full with the best food going, making sure they and their gear are being maintained in top shape for the killing job they must do and busting a gut trying to make their living conditions as decent as possible.




http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33363



Col. David Hackworth opines upon Nation-building on the cheap at Worldnetdaily.com: Shoestring logistics: The new American way on 1 July 2003. HTH







Post#7164 at 07-07-2003 09:21 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning

Many retailers getting with season

By Anne D''Innocenzio
ASSOCIATED PRESS
  • "These changes are part of an overall strategy begun several years ago when stores started delivering fabrics that consumers could wear through several seasons. But the latest moves, stores say, mark their biggest effort yet in the direction of climate-friendly clothing."
There's finally good news for shoppers looking for a bathing suit or a summer skirt and finding only woolen overcoats in the shops.

A growing number of retailers are offering clothes actually suitable to the season, a change from the decades-old policy of stocking winter clothes in July and summer clothes in January.

That means consumers will find more lightweight clothes and sandals through August ? not a rehash of spring and summer styles, but new fall products that can be worn now. In some stores they won't find a an overcoat or a heavy jacket until October.
Consumers' growing tendency to put off buying clothes until actually needed ? or the shopkeeper's determination to rush the season ? is behind the shift. Unusual weather patterns have exacerbated the problem. Last year, a warmer-than-usual fall left stores with mounds of bulky sweaters left over from July. This spring, which was unusually wet in parts of the country, including the Washington area, resulted in shorts and swimwear languishing in April and May.

Another factor for stores like American Eagle Outfitters and Abercrombie & Fitch, which cater to younger shoppers, is that a growing number of students are going back to school earlier and need clothes that can be worn in warm weather.

?Old Navy, burned by having too many fleece jackets last August, is delaying those deliveries until mid-September. It is delivering shorts and tank tops in spice tones this month and next.

?At Limited Inc.'s Express stores, consumers won't find many chunky sweaters in its early fall merchandise this month. Those will be featured in stores in October. Instead, customers will find paper-thin cashmere and lightweight knit tops.

?Family footwear retailer Payless ShoeSource has doubled the number of open-toed shoes available in August from a year ago.

These changes are part of an overall strategy begun several years ago when stores started delivering fabrics that consumers could wear through several seasons. But the latest moves, stores say, mark their biggest effort yet in the direction of climate-friendly clothing.

"When you are a mall-based retailer, you have to be pragmatic," says Paul Raffin, executive vice president of merchandising at Express. "The customer buys now and wears now."

But some retailers, including Nordstrom, are successful in getting shoppers to buy the next season's fashions early. The store lures shoppers with its annual fall sale, which this year is scheduled from July 18 through Aug. 3. Shoppers are enticed to grab fall merchandise, discounted by as much as 40 percent, before the price rises.
There is always the crowd of well-heeled customers and young, trendy customers who want to get a head start on the next season, even without discounts.
Patricia Handschiegel this month plans to buy two fall must-haves: high-boots and a tweed cap.

"You want to be among the first group of women to wear the new trends," the Los Angeles resident says.

But many more consumers are frustrated with stores' fashion calendars. Worried about the overall economy, the customers can't afford to invest in merchandise that they don't need for the next two to three months.

"I am pretty secure with my job, but raises are a lot slower, and I am becoming more cautious than in the past," Los Angeles resident Tracee Steinke says.







Posted for discussion purposes only.







Post#7165 at 07-07-2003 10:32 AM by zilch [at joined Nov 2001 #posts 3,491]
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Re: Cut on the bias

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Our media is biased against the military, and no matter what the mission or who the president is, that should be borne in mind.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0707/p02s01-woiq.html
Troop morale in Iraq hits 'rock bottom'
Soldiers stress is a key concern as the Army ponders whether to send more forces....

By Ms. Ann Scott Tyson from the 7 July 2003 number of the Christian Science Monitor for your disbelief or belief. HTH
it takes and imposter to know imposters

more nonsense from the nyt jason imposter wing of the loopy media

Paper apologises to Galloway

Friday, 20 June, 2003, 14:30 GMT 15:30 UK
BBC NEWS
  • Galloway denies accepting cash from Saddam
    An American newspaper has apologised to Glasgow Labour MP George Galloway after alleging that he accepted millions of pounds from Saddam Hussein.
The Christian Science Monitor has admitted that a set of documents upon which it based its story on were "almost certainly" fake.

Mr Galloway has always strenuously denied that he took any money from the Iraqi regime.

The newspaper said two of the "oldest" documents - dated between 1992 and 1993 - were actually written within the past few months.

Paul Van Slambrouck, Monitor editor, issued an apology both to Mr Galloway and the paper's readers.

He said: "At the time we published these documents, we felt they were newsworthy and appeared credible, although we did explicitly state in our article that we could not guarantee their authenticity.

"It is important to set the record straight. We are convinced the documents are bogus. We apologise to Mr Galloway and to our readers."

However the Glasgow MP has refused to accept the apology and is demanding to know who forged the documents.




Posted for discussion purposes only.







Post#7166 at 07-07-2003 11:28 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by ....
Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning

Many retailers getting with season

By Anne D''Innocenzio
ASSOCIATED PRESS
  • "These changes are part of an overall strategy begun several years ago when stores started delivering fabrics that consumers could wear through several seasons. But the latest moves, stores say, mark their biggest effort yet in the direction of climate-friendly clothing."
There's finally good news for shoppers looking for a bathing suit or a summer skirt and finding only woolen overcoats in the shops.

A growing number of retailers are offering clothes actually suitable to the season, a change from the decades-old policy of stocking winter clothes in July and summer clothes in January.

That means consumers will find more lightweight clothes and sandals through August — not a rehash of spring and summer styles, but new fall products that can be worn now. In some stores they won't find a an overcoat or a heavy jacket until October.
Consumers' growing tendency to put off buying clothes until actually needed — or the shopkeeper's determination to rush the season — is behind the shift. Unusual weather patterns have exacerbated the problem. Last year, a warmer-than-usual fall left stores with mounds of bulky sweaters left over from July. This spring, which was unusually wet in parts of the country, including the Washington area, resulted in shorts and swimwear languishing in April and May.

Another factor for stores like American Eagle Outfitters and Abercrombie & Fitch, which cater to younger shoppers, is that a growing number of students are going back to school earlier and need clothes that can be worn in warm weather.

•Old Navy, burned by having too many fleece jackets last August, is delaying those deliveries until mid-September. It is delivering shorts and tank tops in spice tones this month and next.

•At Limited Inc.'s Express stores, consumers won't find many chunky sweaters in its early fall merchandise this month. Those will be featured in stores in October. Instead, customers will find paper-thin cashmere and lightweight knit tops.

•Family footwear retailer Payless ShoeSource has doubled the number of open-toed shoes available in August from a year ago.

These changes are part of an overall strategy begun several years ago when stores started delivering fabrics that consumers could wear through several seasons. But the latest moves, stores say, mark their biggest effort yet in the direction of climate-friendly clothing.

"When you are a mall-based retailer, you have to be pragmatic," says Paul Raffin, executive vice president of merchandising at Express. "The customer buys now and wears now."

But some retailers, including Nordstrom, are successful in getting shoppers to buy the next season's fashions early. The store lures shoppers with its annual fall sale, which this year is scheduled from July 18 through Aug. 3. Shoppers are enticed to grab fall merchandise, discounted by as much as 40 percent, before the price rises.
There is always the crowd of well-heeled customers and young, trendy customers who want to get a head start on the next season, even without discounts.
Patricia Handschiegel this month plans to buy two fall must-haves: high-boots and a tweed cap.

"You want to be among the first group of women to wear the new trends," the Los Angeles resident says.

But many more consumers are frustrated with stores' fashion calendars. Worried about the overall economy, the customers can't afford to invest in merchandise that they don't need for the next two to three months.

"I am pretty secure with my job, but raises are a lot slower, and I am becoming more cautious than in the past," Los Angeles resident Tracee Steinke says.
Posted for discussion purposes only.
Bravo!

This will eliminate one of my long-standing pet peeves about shopping :-).







Post#7167 at 07-07-2003 04:57 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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[quote="Kevin Parker '59"]
Quote Originally Posted by ....
Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning

Bravo!

This will eliminate one of my long-standing pet peeves about shopping :-).
I am with you. I hate shopping, so when I go to get something, I expect it to be there, assuming it's the right kind of store.

On a darker note, check USA today for an article on Bush and NUKES. :o

Quoted here for discussion purposes only. The Entire article can be found at:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ear-usat_x.htm


Bush pushes for next generation of nukes
By Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY

MERCURY, Nev. ? If the Bush administration succeeds in its determined but little-noticed push to develop a new generation of nuclear weapons, this sun-baked desert flatland 65 miles northwest of Las Vegas could once again reverberate with the ground-shaking thumps of nuclear explosions that used to be common here.

Kevin Rohrer, of the agency that maintains U.S. nuclear weapons, looks out over the giant Sedan Crater at the Nevada Test Site.
By Robert Hanashiro, USA TODAY

The nuclear-weapons test areas are now a wasteland that is home mostly to lizards and coyotes. Throughout the Nevada Test Site, the ground is strewn with mangled buildings and pockmarked with craters, the ghostly evidence of the 928 nuclear tests the government conducted here from 1951 to 1992.

A concrete tower designed to hold the bomb for what would have been the 929th test still looms over the desert floor.

But "Icecap," the test of a bomb 10 times the size of the one that devastated the Japanese city of Hiroshima in 1945, was halted when the first President Bush placed a moratorium on U.S. nuclear tests in October 1992. The voluntary test ban came two years after Russia stopped its nuclear tests.

In the 11 years since, the United States has worked to halt the spread of nuclear weapons around the world and has often touted its own self-imposed restraint as a model for other nations.

But the Bush administration has now taken a decidedly different approach, one that has touched off a passionate debate in Washington. Last year the White House released, to little publicity, the 2002 Nuclear Posture Review. That policy paper embraces the use of nuclear weapons in a first strike and on the battlefield; it also says a return to nuclear testing may soon be necessary. It was coupled with a request for $70 million to study and develop new types of nuclear weapons and to shorten the time it would take to test them.

Last November, months before the invasion of Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld casually told reporters during a flight to Chile that military strategists were examining ways to neutralize Iraq's chemical and biological weapons. Among options studied were bunker-busting bombs that might have nuclear payloads.

Bunker-busters are heavy, missile-like bombs with hardened noses that penetrate the ground before exploding. No nuclear bunker-busters were employed in Iraq, although their use was considered there and in Afghanistan...

(More Text)

Critics say the evidence against battlefield use of nuclear weapons is spread all over the Nevada Test Site. Most notable is Sedan Crater, 1,280 feet across and 320 feet deep. It is the largest crater at the test site, the result of a 104-kiloton device that was exploded 635 feet underground in 1962.

The idea was to see whether nuclear weapons could be used for such peaceful purposes as creating new harbors. The blast threw 12 million tons of radioactive earth 290 feet into the air, where it became airborne fallout. That was the end of the idea of digging harbors with nuclear bombs.

Skeptics of the Bush program ? and the ability of the new weapons to perform as advertised ? say they hope the debate over the weapons has not started too late.

"The public does not focus very much on national security and foreign policy," says John Isaacs, president of Council for a Livable World, a Washington, D.C.-based nuclear arms public policy group. "The administration has prevailed by telling Congress this is only research, not developing or testing or building. The next battles (in Congress) may not be as easy."


Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ear-usat_x.htm







Post#7168 at 07-07-2003 05:57 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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07-07-2003, 05:57 PM #7168
Guest

Quote Originally Posted by ....
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Regionally (these ARE seasonally-adjusted, like the regular US unemployment rate is):
The midwest has the lowest unemployment at 5.5%, and the west has the highest, at 6.4%
This is interesting because it probably mirrors the bursting of the "tech bubble" back in March of 2000, when the NASDAQ crashed. Obviously, while 6.8% ain't all that bad, this important sector has yet to recover to it's former glory. But I strongly suspect that it will have to if the U.S. is to really recover in this information economy.

I could be wrong, though.
Looks like I might be right...

Dot-com bust has freed up freeways
STUDY SHOWS SHARP DECREASE IN SANTA CLARA COUNTY TRAFFIC

By Gary Richards
Mercury News
Posted on Mon, Jul. 07, 2003

The congestion of parent pick-up afterschool at Redwood Middle School in Saratoga creates a dangerous intersection at Fruitvale and Saratoga Avenues.

Silicon Valley has lost 196,200 jobs since the dot-com collapse three years ago. And it seems like every laid-off worker was a commuter on Highway 17.

Today, traffic is flowing more smoothly on every Santa Clara County freeway than it did back in the boom-clogged days of 2000. The freeways haven't been this free since 1997, and there is a cruel twist in that. The more the economy bleeds jobs, the easier vehicles flow through the valley's arteries.







Post#7169 at 07-07-2003 06:03 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by ....
Quote Originally Posted by ....
Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Regionally (these ARE seasonally-adjusted, like the regular US unemployment rate is):
The midwest has the lowest unemployment at 5.5%, and the west has the highest, at 6.4%
This is interesting because it probably mirrors the bursting of the "tech bubble" back in March of 2000, when the NASDAQ crashed. Obviously, while 6.8% ain't all that bad, this important sector has yet to recover to it's former glory. But I strongly suspect that it will have to if the U.S. is to really recover in this information economy.

I could be wrong, though.
Looks like I might be right...

Dot-com bust has freed up freeways
STUDY SHOWS SHARP DECREASE IN SANTA CLARA COUNTY TRAFFIC

By Gary Richards
Mercury News
Posted on Mon, Jul. 07, 2003

The congestion of parent pick-up afterschool at Redwood Middle School in Saratoga creates a dangerous intersection at Fruitvale and Saratoga Avenues.

Silicon Valley has lost 196,200 jobs since the dot-com collapse three years ago. And it seems like every laid-off worker was a commuter on Highway 17.

Today, traffic is flowing more smoothly on every Santa Clara County freeway than it did back in the boom-clogged days of 2000. The freeways haven't been this free since 1997, and there is a cruel twist in that. The more the economy bleeds jobs, the easier vehicles flow through the valley's arteries.
I noticed the same effect when i was in Seattle last winter for job interviews (not one of which panned out). Traffic there seemed down by 25-30%.







Post#7170 at 07-07-2003 08:59 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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07-07-2003, 08:59 PM #7170
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Loose Talk

Bring 'Em On

as the speaker heads for the

EXIT


3T, We be.







Post#7171 at 07-07-2003 09:41 PM by zilch [at joined Nov 2001 #posts 3,491]
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07-07-2003, 09:41 PM #7171
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Re: loose talking imposters

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
Bring 'Em On

as the speaker heads for the

EXIT


3T, We be.
you be a no t fraud







Post#7172 at 07-08-2003 01:41 AM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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07-08-2003, 01:41 AM #7172
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I don't know if he is saying it is 3T or 4T, but Fred Reed is definitely saying that it is new, it is weird, and it is getting weirder.



http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/reed4.html

(Standard disclaimers)



You Can't Change It, But It's A Fun Show

by Fred Reed


I-Already-Feel-Safer Department: In the Washington Times I discover that some ditzbunny in the legislature of Annapolis, Maryland, wants to outlaw plastic guns. Yes. She's going to get rid of them rascals. It's because it will end crime.

Quoth the Times "Alderwoman Cynthia A. Carter, Democrat, [now that's a surprise] said the law would ban all toy guns except for clear, brightly colored plastic guns." Honest. She's doing this. "If someone commits a felony with one, they [sic] will not only be charged with the crime but also with using a toy gun," avowed she, semi-literately.

I thought, Oh, good, Cynthia. You're encouraging criminals to use real guns, so that they won't be hit with the plastic penalty also. Of course a chief reason for using plastic guns has been that, if caught, the criminal could say with reason that he wasn't threatening life. How very astute, Cynthia.

The good lady will also fine parents of children caught playing with plastic guns out of doors. "Anything that can be done to deglamorize guns is a plus," said Ellen O. Moyer, mayor of the city that is home to the Naval Academy.

Cynthia is a co-mother of the Political Redskins Effect, which is the aesthetic appreciation of really good catastrophe. I used to follow the Skins when they were having a good year. When they had a mediocre year, I slacked off. But when they had disastrous years, when the running backs went in the wrong direction and the quarterback threw only interceptions and every other play was a fumble ? I followed them again. It was fun to see how bad they could be. I longed for more-humiliating mistakes, for impossible errors. Maybe it was sadistic, or traitorous, or maybe just a joy in parody.

I've come to feel the same way about American society. Slow decline is draining, but spectacular collapse invigorates. It's no longer anything to be upset about. It's entertainment. The season's lost anyway, no hope of the playoffs, so enjoy it. I fire up the computer every morning in hopes of finding some new and unexpected form of daft behavior, a new chuckle, some form of social self-parody that I never dreamed of.

My political philosophy these days is to favor the funniest candidate and the most absurd policy, just to watch what will happen. Don't delude yourself that this is an easy course. The principle of Greater Comedy does not make for easy choices.

If Hillary ran against George, for example, I'd be hard pressed to choose. On responsible terms, Hillary would easily be my choice. She would socialize the country, but George is Stalinizing it; she's lots brighter, less embarrassing, and doesn't want to be Arabia's mother. She doesn't want to put a camera in my bathroom.

But in terms of amusement, George wins. Hillary is just an old-line big-government Democrat, and boring. She would take the country in bad directions, but not interestingly bad ones. George and his buddies are turning the United States into the first state of total electronic control. It's a first-rate show. Face it: Watching the destruction of the world's greatest free government is much cooler that watching the snoring growth of federal departments.

Another recent headline: "Sayreville, New Jersey-AP ? You can't pretend your finger is a gun ? even if you're in kindergarten.

So says a federal appeals court in ruling that a New Jersey school district did not violate a kindergarten boy's free- speech rights by suspending him for threatening to shoot his friends during a game at recess."

Now that's what I like: Forty-weight solemn clownishness, the kind you could calk a roof with. A kid of maybe six points his finger, gets suspended, and it becomes an issue of freedom of speech to be decided by federal court. Only in America do courts concern themselves with the unfurling of a kindergartner's finger.

It is well that Americans do not care what others think about them. As best I can tell, Mexicans find our behavior puzzling if not lunatic, and the French think it deliciously amusing. The Canadians follow the American lead and often are even nuttier. The Russians probably watch with a sense of looming nostalgia. They've been there, but without the humor.

Anyway, for those who prefer to enjoy the spectacle instead of opposing the inevitable, I suggest that the best course is to promote a coalition of male Republicans and female Democrats. These reliably display the most amusing traits of their sexes.

The Republican men, as for example BushCroft and Rumsfeld, bring to the table a peculiarly male arrogance and sense of godhead. Female arrogance tends to be social; male, military. Men have a slightly different approach to insecurity. I suspect that those occupying the great double-wide on Pennsylvania Avenue worry that maybe size does matter, and they need to do something quick. They easily persuade themselves, in the absence of any real system of values, that their duty is to sweep away the smoldering ashes of the Constitution to make room for more microphones.

The female Democrats should manage the social burlesque. Being viscerally obsessed with security, security, security in a world that seems to be mysteriously but disturbingly somehow wrong, they will pass Niceness Legislation. The analysis will be emotional rather than rational. They won't know this. When the ill-conceived proves unworkable, they will insist on tighter controls on little boys, more bans on second-hand smoke, more intrusiveness in a flailing attempt to impose Niceness.

What I figure is, there's probably an alien Space Base somewhere, maybe on Jupiter, full of people with hairy green tentacles coming out of their heads and several eyes. And they're shooting Degradation Rays at the Earth. First they did Russia, which was already pretty degraded and didn't have far to go. Now they've got the US. They're beaming the footage back to wherever they live as a reality show.

Nothing else really explains what is happening. It's three-ring national apoptosis, the long leap from the Golden Gate. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make outrageously funny. We're there, and it's a splendid show.


July 8, 2003


Fred Reed [send him mail] is author of Nekkid in Austin: Drop Your Inner Child Down a Well.







Post#7173 at 07-08-2003 02:26 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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Do We Have Confirmation?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0703/p17s01-almo.html

Sunny side up
Cynicism is so 1990. sincerity is back in vogue.

By Gloria Goodale | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

LOS ANGELES - If art reflects society, Americans appear to be embracing a new motif that has this as its signature theme: "Sincerely Yours."

From popular music and TV to Hollywood movies and fine art, the importance of being earnest - last seen so definitively in America during Norman Rockwell's era - is back in vogue, particularly among the young. In music, it's heard in the heartfelt tunes of the band Coldplay and Texas chanteuse Norah Jones. On TV, dramas such as NBC's "American Dreams" celebrate wholesome family values. Hollywood's "Legally Blonde 2" continues the "bright makes right" story of pretty-in-pink Elle Woods, who actually says, "I'm the luckiest girl in the world!" Even in the art world, the public is flocking to shows in which beauty and cheeriness take precedence over the oh-so-'90s ironic or shocking.

At the "Matisse Picasso" retrospective in New York, curators have noted that the colorful, cheerful Matisse has drawn far more visitors than Picasso. And in Los Angeles, "Modigliani & the Artists of Montparnasse" showcases the passionate, bohemian context of the 20th-century artist and the sheer beauty of his work.

"This [early 20th-century period] is very rich. It's also inherently optimistic and sincere," says Kenneth Wayne, curator at the Albright-Knox Gallery who organized the Modigliani show, now at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA).

Matisse and Modigliani "are visually beautiful and fun to look at," says Carol Eliel, curator of modern and contemporary art at LAMCA.

"This is what people want to look at now." This stands in stark contrast to such shows as 1999's "Sensation" exhibit, which included excrement and dissected animals.

Much has been written about the death of irony in the arts following 9/11, but now the pundits who stir the tea leaves of culture see the sincerity is what's replacing it.

The recent movie "From Justin to Kelly" features the first winners of TV's "American Idol" competition in such sincere, well-scrubbed sing-your-heart-out roles that Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney come to mind.

This is not necessarily a predictor of quality - the movie itself was not screened for critics and it bombed at the box office. This straight-ahead sincerity also doesn't mean that violence and sex in TV and movies are suddenly out of fashion. Graphic violence and leave-little-to-the imagination sex are still prevalent in pop culture.

Hip-hop stars 50 Cent and Jay-Z, for example, continue to top the charts. Their lyrics are laced with profanity, and loaded with sexual and violent images. Meanwhile, Jewel and Liz Phair are repackaging themselves as sexy mainstream pop artists, dressing in skimpy skirts and plunging necklines.

What is emerging, nonetheless, is an optimistic chipper culture with little interest in cynicism and the grunge look. Even recent college grads are optimistic about the future, according to recent reports, despite a weak job market.

Cultural observers and experts say this new generation is gravitating more toward meaningful images and a positive outlook, and Hollywood and the art world are responding.

Australian filmmaker Baz Luhrmann, who created "Moulin Rouge," a film about the bohemians in early 20th-century Paris that has become a cult hit among the 18 to 25 demographic, says this is the generation that has seen it all.

"They want something more meaningful, something from the heart," Mr. Luhrmann says. "They're tired of irony."

Even before 9/11, when the collective psyche rejected irony, the signs of a shift were apparent, says Robert Thompson, director of the Center for the Study of Popular Television at Syracuse University.

"We've been waiting to exhale for a long time," says Mr. Thompson. He points to what he calls early examples, such as Oprah Winfrey. "There is a woman without an ironic bone in her body," he says. Behind her came people like Dr. Phil.

"He's a tell-it-like-it-is guy," he says. "Irony," says Thompson, such as the sardonic '90s sitcom hit, "Seinfeld," "is tell it-like-it-is-not."

Others suggest the shift is even more profound. William Strauss calls this the leading edge of a full-bore generational overhaul, decades in the making. "This is a time when the culture cleanses itself," he says, describing a transition he has written about in "The Fourth Turning," a book he coauthored.

History has moved throughout time in cycles of four overturnings which, Mr. Strauss writes, "have kept the great wheel of time in motion, infusing civilization with periodic new doses of vitality." Strauss dubs the final turning of each cycle a reverse of the film "Pleasantville," in which "we take out the garish colors and put in pleasant ones."

His theory is that cycles of history have repeated themselves for centuries. Today's mood, he says, most resembles that of the Great Depression.

"Up until the fall of 1929, America inhabited a decade of wonderful nonsense," he says, comparing this to the '90s. The popular phrase of that time was, "Oh yeah?" in response to any attempt to be serious. The '90s equivalent was "whatever!" Strauss says with a laugh.

The mood shifted after the stock market crash that brought both eras to an end, he says. "This ushered in a new mood and there was no going back," he says. The terrorist attacks helped this shift move along more quickly.

"The events of 9/11," says Strauss, "pushed people toward the enduring, toward things that are sweeter." Look at classic images of Norman Rockwell and the Depression-era movies, he says, films that focused on noble people in the midst of difficult circumstances.

"Whether it was Frank Capra or Andy Hardy, the image of teens in the '30s was young people with bright shining faces who were honest and sincere."

Today, says Strauss who works with high school theater groups across the country, young people want their stories to have traditional beginnings, middles, and endings.

The next generation also works together well in groups. "This is not a niche culture," he says, "happy is in."

Not everyone is going to like this change, adds Strauss, who, as cofounder of the satirical musical group "The Capitol Steps" certainly understands irony. "To some eyes, this will look bland, even propagandistic," he adds with a laugh.

On the positive side, however, he sees a much more civic culture, with a more politically engaged populace.

Elle Woods would certainly agree. After all, she marches on Washington in order to change what she considers an unjust law. It's just that she does it without losing her style. Says one gushing co-worker, "you've come further than all of us, while maintaining your bounce and sparkle!"

This new generation also is not entirely without the knowing nudge or wink. It just won't have the sharp elbow's edge, say pundits. This is the era of the sophisticated innocent, again well-captured by Elle as she begs lawmakers to heed her call.

"An honest voice is louder than a crowd," she says over and over during her Jimmy Stewart/Gary Cooper moments. Then, in a supremely Elle Woods moment, she adds, "stand up for the land of the free gift with purchase!"







Post#7174 at 07-08-2003 06:29 PM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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07-08-2003, 06:29 PM #7174
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...710EDT0714.DTL

ABC News' Peter Jennings becomes a U.S. citizen
DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer
Tuesday, July 8, 2003
?2003 Associated Press

(07-08) 15:27 PDT NEW YORK (AP) --

He's been reporting the news to Americans for nearly 40 years, and now Peter Jennings can say he's one of them.

The Canadian native quietly became a U.S. citizen more than a month ago at a ceremony in Manhattan, and revealed it to friends at a Fourth of July party last weekend.

The 64-year-old anchor of ABC's "World News Tonight," who was born in Toronto and raised in Ottawa, will retain his Canadian citizenship.

He began considering the dual citizenship in the months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, feeling a deeper sense of connection to the United States. Still, the words don't come easily when he was asked Tuesday to explain why.

"Not to sound too corny about it, but love, respect, gratitude, time," he said. "I've been thinking about this for so long. This is not the kind of thing you can do overnight."

Or easily. One of his requirements when applying for citizenship was to detail the times he's left and returned to the United States over the past five years -- a challenge for a journalist who frequently travels overseas.

Like any nervous student, he studied for his citizenship test and took practice exams. Jennings had a perfect score.

With his family in tow, Jennings was sworn in on May 30 at a government office with several other new citizens, none of whom spoiled his secret.

Jennings was called upon to deliver a toast to the United States in Philadelphia on Thursday at the dedication of a new museum celebrating the U.S. Constitution.

When he was done, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia told Jennings, "not bad for a Canadian." Jennings said he knelt beside Scalia and whispered the secret to him.

The next day, he told his friends.

Jennings' citizenship has occasionally been raised by critics, most recently July 4, 2002, when ABC decided not to include country singer Toby Keith and his song, "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American)" on an Independence Day special.

"My decision to do this has nothing to do with politics, it has nothing to do with my profession," Jennings said. "It has everything to do with my family."

He's aware of the critics, but "I always felt it was more of a reflection on them than it was on me," he said.

"People who don't like what we do in the media will always find a reason to be critical," he said. "I wish at the moment we were all a little less rhetorical. It's quite nasty in the country in many respects. That would cause me great pain no matter where I was from, but it caused me particular pain as I went through this process."

Now, as a new American, Jennings said he will feel more free to criticize his country at home and defend it abroad.

?2003 Associated Press
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didnīt replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#7175 at 07-08-2003 06:29 PM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...710EDT0714.DTL

ABC News' Peter Jennings becomes a U.S. citizen
DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer
Tuesday, July 8, 2003
?2003 Associated Press

(07-08) 15:27 PDT NEW YORK (AP) --

He's been reporting the news to Americans for nearly 40 years, and now Peter Jennings can say he's one of them.

The Canadian native quietly became a U.S. citizen more than a month ago at a ceremony in Manhattan, and revealed it to friends at a Fourth of July party last weekend.

The 64-year-old anchor of ABC's "World News Tonight," who was born in Toronto and raised in Ottawa, will retain his Canadian citizenship.

He began considering the dual citizenship in the months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, feeling a deeper sense of connection to the United States. Still, the words don't come easily when he was asked Tuesday to explain why.

"Not to sound too corny about it, but love, respect, gratitude, time," he said. "I've been thinking about this for so long. This is not the kind of thing you can do overnight."

Or easily. One of his requirements when applying for citizenship was to detail the times he's left and returned to the United States over the past five years -- a challenge for a journalist who frequently travels overseas.

Like any nervous student, he studied for his citizenship test and took practice exams. Jennings had a perfect score.

With his family in tow, Jennings was sworn in on May 30 at a government office with several other new citizens, none of whom spoiled his secret.

Jennings was called upon to deliver a toast to the United States in Philadelphia on Thursday at the dedication of a new museum celebrating the U.S. Constitution.

When he was done, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia told Jennings, "not bad for a Canadian." Jennings said he knelt beside Scalia and whispered the secret to him.

The next day, he told his friends.

Jennings' citizenship has occasionally been raised by critics, most recently July 4, 2002, when ABC decided not to include country singer Toby Keith and his song, "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American)" on an Independence Day special.

"My decision to do this has nothing to do with politics, it has nothing to do with my profession," Jennings said. "It has everything to do with my family."

He's aware of the critics, but "I always felt it was more of a reflection on them than it was on me," he said.

"People who don't like what we do in the media will always find a reason to be critical," he said. "I wish at the moment we were all a little less rhetorical. It's quite nasty in the country in many respects. That would cause me great pain no matter where I was from, but it caused me particular pain as I went through this process."

Now, as a new American, Jennings said he will feel more free to criticize his country at home and defend it abroad.

?2003 Associated Press
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didnīt replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY
-----------------------------------------