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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 288







Post#7176 at 07-08-2003 06:29 PM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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07-08-2003, 06:29 PM #7176
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...710EDT0714.DTL

ABC News' Peter Jennings becomes a U.S. citizen
DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer
Tuesday, July 8, 2003
?2003 Associated Press

(07-08) 15:27 PDT NEW YORK (AP) --

He's been reporting the news to Americans for nearly 40 years, and now Peter Jennings can say he's one of them.

The Canadian native quietly became a U.S. citizen more than a month ago at a ceremony in Manhattan, and revealed it to friends at a Fourth of July party last weekend.

The 64-year-old anchor of ABC's "World News Tonight," who was born in Toronto and raised in Ottawa, will retain his Canadian citizenship.

He began considering the dual citizenship in the months after the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, feeling a deeper sense of connection to the United States. Still, the words don't come easily when he was asked Tuesday to explain why.

"Not to sound too corny about it, but love, respect, gratitude, time," he said. "I've been thinking about this for so long. This is not the kind of thing you can do overnight."

Or easily. One of his requirements when applying for citizenship was to detail the times he's left and returned to the United States over the past five years -- a challenge for a journalist who frequently travels overseas.

Like any nervous student, he studied for his citizenship test and took practice exams. Jennings had a perfect score.

With his family in tow, Jennings was sworn in on May 30 at a government office with several other new citizens, none of whom spoiled his secret.

Jennings was called upon to deliver a toast to the United States in Philadelphia on Thursday at the dedication of a new museum celebrating the U.S. Constitution.

When he was done, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia told Jennings, "not bad for a Canadian." Jennings said he knelt beside Scalia and whispered the secret to him.

The next day, he told his friends.

Jennings' citizenship has occasionally been raised by critics, most recently July 4, 2002, when ABC decided not to include country singer Toby Keith and his song, "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American)" on an Independence Day special.

"My decision to do this has nothing to do with politics, it has nothing to do with my profession," Jennings said. "It has everything to do with my family."

He's aware of the critics, but "I always felt it was more of a reflection on them than it was on me," he said.

"People who don't like what we do in the media will always find a reason to be critical," he said. "I wish at the moment we were all a little less rhetorical. It's quite nasty in the country in many respects. That would cause me great pain no matter where I was from, but it caused me particular pain as I went through this process."

Now, as a new American, Jennings said he will feel more free to criticize his country at home and defend it abroad.

?2003 Associated Press
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didnīt replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#7177 at 07-09-2003 12:19 AM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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07-09-2003, 12:19 AM #7177
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Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.

So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.
1987 INTP







Post#7178 at 07-09-2003 12:19 AM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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07-09-2003, 12:19 AM #7178
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Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.

So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.
1987 INTP







Post#7179 at 07-09-2003 12:19 AM by AlexMnWi [at Minneapolis joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,622]
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07-09-2003, 12:19 AM #7179
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Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.

So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.
1987 INTP







Post#7180 at 07-09-2003 02:16 AM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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07-09-2003, 02:16 AM #7180
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Cusp Turning

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.

So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.
Alex,

I know what you mean. I call this particular "cusp turning" (cool name, BTW) the "Phony Fourth". I think that 9/11 was a very intense event that struck a nation that was in a mature, but not yet ripe, third turning. As I and others have noted (including yourself, I think) the generations were not quite lined up for a turning change, but they were close (this assumes one disagrees with Mike Alexander, who has made some interesting points about S&H's mechanism).

My guess is that we are in a long, strange first phase 4T, but it won't be long before things get really interesting.

What the 4T could/will bring scares me and makes me want the Glitzy Culture Wars era to keep on rollin'. Yet . . . I would love to not have Britney Spear's virginal status be front page news. A cultural cleansing would also be nice.
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#7181 at 07-09-2003 02:16 AM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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07-09-2003, 02:16 AM #7181
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Cusp Turning

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.

So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.
Alex,

I know what you mean. I call this particular "cusp turning" (cool name, BTW) the "Phony Fourth". I think that 9/11 was a very intense event that struck a nation that was in a mature, but not yet ripe, third turning. As I and others have noted (including yourself, I think) the generations were not quite lined up for a turning change, but they were close (this assumes one disagrees with Mike Alexander, who has made some interesting points about S&H's mechanism).

My guess is that we are in a long, strange first phase 4T, but it won't be long before things get really interesting.

What the 4T could/will bring scares me and makes me want the Glitzy Culture Wars era to keep on rollin'. Yet . . . I would love to not have Britney Spear's virginal status be front page news. A cultural cleansing would also be nice.
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#7182 at 07-09-2003 02:16 AM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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07-09-2003, 02:16 AM #7182
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Cusp Turning

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.

So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.
Alex,

I know what you mean. I call this particular "cusp turning" (cool name, BTW) the "Phony Fourth". I think that 9/11 was a very intense event that struck a nation that was in a mature, but not yet ripe, third turning. As I and others have noted (including yourself, I think) the generations were not quite lined up for a turning change, but they were close (this assumes one disagrees with Mike Alexander, who has made some interesting points about S&H's mechanism).

My guess is that we are in a long, strange first phase 4T, but it won't be long before things get really interesting.

What the 4T could/will bring scares me and makes me want the Glitzy Culture Wars era to keep on rollin'. Yet . . . I would love to not have Britney Spear's virginal status be front page news. A cultural cleansing would also be nice.
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#7183 at 07-09-2003 03:12 PM by [at joined #posts ]
---
07-09-2003, 03:12 PM #7183
Guest

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=347821

Xer depression or Millie work ethic... or is something else involved here?


So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.







Post#7184 at 07-09-2003 03:12 PM by [at joined #posts ]
---
07-09-2003, 03:12 PM #7184
Guest

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=347821

Xer depression or Millie work ethic... or is something else involved here?


So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.







Post#7185 at 07-09-2003 03:12 PM by [at joined #posts ]
---
07-09-2003, 03:12 PM #7185
Guest

Quote Originally Posted by AlexMnWi
Well, maybe it is 4T. Actually, this makes it seem like it will be a mild 4T (which S&H said was possible in the book), or, it is a tease and it will be a regular not-so-mild 4T by the end. I don't know. Just like generations have cusps, which some describe as some people are completely X, and some are completely Millie, and there aren't really hybrids. I suppose our current culture is like this also. Some aspects of culture are like in the article, and seems completely Millie and 4T. In other aspects, it seems very 3T and X-ish. For example of this, there is still such a focus on multiculturalism, our differences, blah blah blah. But, maybe those trends continue until the regeneracy. I think what is sort of nice with our time, is that you can sort of "choose a turning" and go there. In the mood for 3T? Go somewhere with low unemployment, but a 3T culture, such as Madison, which has low unemployment and a real party college. This area is also very "multicultural" and what-not.

Want a 4T culture instead? Go to a college that is not a real party school and is very "millie", and is in an area with higher unemployment.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=347821

Xer depression or Millie work ethic... or is something else involved here?


So, as some say that a cusp is part of both generations, I think we are in a "cusp turning", or something. I mean, media circuses and so forth still go on, they are still cutting taxes (although they don't really raise these until regeneracy either), and so forth.

By the way, S&H sort of hint in the book that the GC can be, and often is, an otherwise mediocre president, who can "talk the talk but not walk the walk". FDR was the GC of course, but the unemployment fell VERY slowly during the entire New Deal, which had unconstitutional aspects and was essentially worthless... when it came to fighting the depression. However, at the same time, it restored confidence and optimism, which is what made him a GC. Lincoln was the GC, but he picked the worst generals. Bush could be a (not the) GC, but the situation in Iraq is pretty bad, the economy isn't that healthy, and most people overseas seem to hate him. However, he has never had approval ratings below 50%, many of his supporters strongly approve of him, and he has strong anti-terror rhetoric, even if the American public is a better weapon against terrorism (already foiled the shoe bomber, and on 9/11, a likely attack on the Capitol) than the Homeland Security Department. Seeing as how I doubt his actions would have gotten much support before 9/11, this makes another 4T aspect.

My main point, I think the 4T aspects of our culture appeared on 9/11, but the 3T aspects won't go away until the regeneracy.







Post#7186 at 07-12-2003 03:10 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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07-12-2003, 03:10 PM #7186
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http://search.csmonitor.com/search_c...3s01-ussc.html

Focus on founding figures keeps growing
From new books to a new National Constitution Center, citizens ponder past during a time of present turmoil.
By Patrik Jonsson | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
RESTON, VA. ? When descendants of Thomas Jefferson's alleged slave paramour Sally Hemings arrive at Monticello this weekend, they'll come once more as a family apart.

Despite DNA tests that detected Jeffersonian blood coursing through Hemings's descendants, the 25-year argument over Jefferson's heirs goes not just to science, but to Jefferson's failure to come to terms with slavery. After being refused admittance to the official Monticello family, the Hemings have gone their own way, with 150 converging for a weekend of storytelling and liturgical dancing at the Virginia plantation where America was dreamed up. "People still doubt us, but we on the black side have always known the truth," says Julia Westerinen, one of Hemings's descendants.

The rancor over Jefferson's biological legacy represents the seedier part of a broadening search for its founding essence, a history distilled not just in forefathers' trysts and heartbreaks, but in their philosophical moorings. Canonized in the 19th century, picked apart late in the 20th, they're cast, these days, in a more nuanced light: visionary figures, yes, but ultimately humans - enigmatic, inconsistent, and something short of George Washington's infallible cherry-tree virtue.

Such intense historical introspection - fueled by a flurry of books, conferences, and popular discussion - is unusual.

It's a debate that, some say, reveals a country adrift, pining for Jeffersonian wisdom and Washingtonian leadership in a new kind of war, worrying deep rips in the social fabric on affirmative action and gay marriage, even sifting through 18th-century economic buzz for discussions on corporations' global role.

"There's a great desire now, a sort of underlying patriotism, where everybody is going back to the founding fathers to figure out what the country is about," says Ronald Radosh, a senior fellow at the conservative Hudson Institute in Washington.

Fathers' trip to the fore

From Civil War reenactors to Franklin fanatics, the past has always loomed large in the American psyche. But recently, thinkers are gobbling history at a furious rate - and arguing at a rising pitch.

It's been a while since the country was at such a crossroads. "This discussion ... first happened in the 1770s and it happened last in the 1930s with the New Deal," says Thomas Hartmann, a writer and radio-show host who deals with the Founders' creeds.

Over the past decade, the founders have been topics of far-ranging books, notably on John Adams and Alexander Hamilton. Gouverneur Morris, another key figure in the Constitution, is also the subject of a new book. Even Jonathan Edwards, one of the country's first "revivalists," is the topic of a new tome. David McCullough's look at John Adams in 2001 brought raves, and Walter Isaacson's "Ben Franklin" is opening eyes on the most erudite of the Founders. Many credit National Endowment for the Humanities head Bruce Cole for his "We the People" project, fomenting discussion on classics. It goes beyond books: Philadelphia boasts a new National Constitution Center.

James MacGregor Burns, Pulitzer-prize winning coauthor of the upcoming "George Washington," says Americans are finding refreshment in Jefferson's thoughts as he penned the Declaration of Independence, and in what Franklin intuited as he pored over everything from electricity to flatulence. The men's private conundrums - Jefferson's trysts and Franklin's falling out with his Loyalist son - only make their lives more real, he says, and, somehow, more American.

"There's the enigma of this little country hanging onto the Atlantic seaboard, producing not only the galaxy of leaders that we're talking about, but also the lawyers and editors and teachers.... The question people ask is: How could that happen?" Burns says.

A recasting of history

With some critics questioning today's leadership - and the Democrats' struggle to find an inspiring candidate - Burns sees that era as a wellspring of intellectual relief.

But with interest comes revisionism and emerging parallels: Analyzing homeland security and the Patriot Act, critics point to John Adams's support of the Alien and Sedition Acts, which let him jail political opponents - to protect the nation, he argued. And Jefferson gossip foreshadowed Clintonian rumors not only in trysts, but in his own version of Whitewater. Even now, some historians suggest Jefferson negotiated the Louisiana Purchase illegally. So it may come as no surprise that the forefathers weren't above popular, even risque, topics. Jefferson had thoughts on sexual behavior, supporting punishment for sodomy.

While conservatives pine for John Adams and liberals yearn for James Madison, everyone wants a piece of Jefferson. Though he forged the separation of church and state, even the Christian Right quoted him this week in confronting what many see as a left-leaning bent on the Supreme Court. "You seem to think that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of constitutional interpretation - a very dangerous doctrine indeed," Jefferson wrote to a colleague.

"How wise Jefferson was," marveled evangelist Pat Robertson this week.

And in that war of founders' words, some say, is another trend in analysis. "With people as complex as the founders, you can pretty much use their writings to justify any kind of modern position, and that's the danger," says Mr. Hartmann, who just finished reading 6,000 of Jefferson's letters.

For example, says Hartmann, Jefferson's Democratic party is the longest surviving political party in the history of civilization - but the White House has reinvented him as a Republican in a reference on its website.

In the end, say historians, the appeal is resurgent because the country is still changing. And through the forefathers' mounds of letters, historians and laypeople find an unvarnished wisdom - early chapters of modern US history, written in the the Enlightenment's glow. "All that was in front of them was ancient Greek and Latin history, the history of Christianity and the history of Britain, and that's what they're basing their philosophy on," says Lenni Brenner, a historian and writer for the leftist CounterPunch.com website.

For the Hemings clan, at least, the lure of history goes beyond Jefferson's failure to fight slavery in his personal life, to the nuances of a man leading a country and searching for self. "We're all looking for the full picture," says Ms. Westerinen. "And we're all writing a book."







Post#7187 at 07-12-2003 03:10 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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07-12-2003, 03:10 PM #7187
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http://search.csmonitor.com/search_c...3s01-ussc.html

Focus on founding figures keeps growing
From new books to a new National Constitution Center, citizens ponder past during a time of present turmoil.
By Patrik Jonsson | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
RESTON, VA. ? When descendants of Thomas Jefferson's alleged slave paramour Sally Hemings arrive at Monticello this weekend, they'll come once more as a family apart.

Despite DNA tests that detected Jeffersonian blood coursing through Hemings's descendants, the 25-year argument over Jefferson's heirs goes not just to science, but to Jefferson's failure to come to terms with slavery. After being refused admittance to the official Monticello family, the Hemings have gone their own way, with 150 converging for a weekend of storytelling and liturgical dancing at the Virginia plantation where America was dreamed up. "People still doubt us, but we on the black side have always known the truth," says Julia Westerinen, one of Hemings's descendants.

The rancor over Jefferson's biological legacy represents the seedier part of a broadening search for its founding essence, a history distilled not just in forefathers' trysts and heartbreaks, but in their philosophical moorings. Canonized in the 19th century, picked apart late in the 20th, they're cast, these days, in a more nuanced light: visionary figures, yes, but ultimately humans - enigmatic, inconsistent, and something short of George Washington's infallible cherry-tree virtue.

Such intense historical introspection - fueled by a flurry of books, conferences, and popular discussion - is unusual.

It's a debate that, some say, reveals a country adrift, pining for Jeffersonian wisdom and Washingtonian leadership in a new kind of war, worrying deep rips in the social fabric on affirmative action and gay marriage, even sifting through 18th-century economic buzz for discussions on corporations' global role.

"There's a great desire now, a sort of underlying patriotism, where everybody is going back to the founding fathers to figure out what the country is about," says Ronald Radosh, a senior fellow at the conservative Hudson Institute in Washington.

Fathers' trip to the fore

From Civil War reenactors to Franklin fanatics, the past has always loomed large in the American psyche. But recently, thinkers are gobbling history at a furious rate - and arguing at a rising pitch.

It's been a while since the country was at such a crossroads. "This discussion ... first happened in the 1770s and it happened last in the 1930s with the New Deal," says Thomas Hartmann, a writer and radio-show host who deals with the Founders' creeds.

Over the past decade, the founders have been topics of far-ranging books, notably on John Adams and Alexander Hamilton. Gouverneur Morris, another key figure in the Constitution, is also the subject of a new book. Even Jonathan Edwards, one of the country's first "revivalists," is the topic of a new tome. David McCullough's look at John Adams in 2001 brought raves, and Walter Isaacson's "Ben Franklin" is opening eyes on the most erudite of the Founders. Many credit National Endowment for the Humanities head Bruce Cole for his "We the People" project, fomenting discussion on classics. It goes beyond books: Philadelphia boasts a new National Constitution Center.

James MacGregor Burns, Pulitzer-prize winning coauthor of the upcoming "George Washington," says Americans are finding refreshment in Jefferson's thoughts as he penned the Declaration of Independence, and in what Franklin intuited as he pored over everything from electricity to flatulence. The men's private conundrums - Jefferson's trysts and Franklin's falling out with his Loyalist son - only make their lives more real, he says, and, somehow, more American.

"There's the enigma of this little country hanging onto the Atlantic seaboard, producing not only the galaxy of leaders that we're talking about, but also the lawyers and editors and teachers.... The question people ask is: How could that happen?" Burns says.

A recasting of history

With some critics questioning today's leadership - and the Democrats' struggle to find an inspiring candidate - Burns sees that era as a wellspring of intellectual relief.

But with interest comes revisionism and emerging parallels: Analyzing homeland security and the Patriot Act, critics point to John Adams's support of the Alien and Sedition Acts, which let him jail political opponents - to protect the nation, he argued. And Jefferson gossip foreshadowed Clintonian rumors not only in trysts, but in his own version of Whitewater. Even now, some historians suggest Jefferson negotiated the Louisiana Purchase illegally. So it may come as no surprise that the forefathers weren't above popular, even risque, topics. Jefferson had thoughts on sexual behavior, supporting punishment for sodomy.

While conservatives pine for John Adams and liberals yearn for James Madison, everyone wants a piece of Jefferson. Though he forged the separation of church and state, even the Christian Right quoted him this week in confronting what many see as a left-leaning bent on the Supreme Court. "You seem to think that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of constitutional interpretation - a very dangerous doctrine indeed," Jefferson wrote to a colleague.

"How wise Jefferson was," marveled evangelist Pat Robertson this week.

And in that war of founders' words, some say, is another trend in analysis. "With people as complex as the founders, you can pretty much use their writings to justify any kind of modern position, and that's the danger," says Mr. Hartmann, who just finished reading 6,000 of Jefferson's letters.

For example, says Hartmann, Jefferson's Democratic party is the longest surviving political party in the history of civilization - but the White House has reinvented him as a Republican in a reference on its website.

In the end, say historians, the appeal is resurgent because the country is still changing. And through the forefathers' mounds of letters, historians and laypeople find an unvarnished wisdom - early chapters of modern US history, written in the the Enlightenment's glow. "All that was in front of them was ancient Greek and Latin history, the history of Christianity and the history of Britain, and that's what they're basing their philosophy on," says Lenni Brenner, a historian and writer for the leftist CounterPunch.com website.

For the Hemings clan, at least, the lure of history goes beyond Jefferson's failure to fight slavery in his personal life, to the nuances of a man leading a country and searching for self. "We're all looking for the full picture," says Ms. Westerinen. "And we're all writing a book."







Post#7188 at 07-12-2003 03:10 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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07-12-2003, 03:10 PM #7188
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http://search.csmonitor.com/search_c...3s01-ussc.html

Focus on founding figures keeps growing
From new books to a new National Constitution Center, citizens ponder past during a time of present turmoil.
By Patrik Jonsson | Special to The Christian Science Monitor
RESTON, VA. ? When descendants of Thomas Jefferson's alleged slave paramour Sally Hemings arrive at Monticello this weekend, they'll come once more as a family apart.

Despite DNA tests that detected Jeffersonian blood coursing through Hemings's descendants, the 25-year argument over Jefferson's heirs goes not just to science, but to Jefferson's failure to come to terms with slavery. After being refused admittance to the official Monticello family, the Hemings have gone their own way, with 150 converging for a weekend of storytelling and liturgical dancing at the Virginia plantation where America was dreamed up. "People still doubt us, but we on the black side have always known the truth," says Julia Westerinen, one of Hemings's descendants.

The rancor over Jefferson's biological legacy represents the seedier part of a broadening search for its founding essence, a history distilled not just in forefathers' trysts and heartbreaks, but in their philosophical moorings. Canonized in the 19th century, picked apart late in the 20th, they're cast, these days, in a more nuanced light: visionary figures, yes, but ultimately humans - enigmatic, inconsistent, and something short of George Washington's infallible cherry-tree virtue.

Such intense historical introspection - fueled by a flurry of books, conferences, and popular discussion - is unusual.

It's a debate that, some say, reveals a country adrift, pining for Jeffersonian wisdom and Washingtonian leadership in a new kind of war, worrying deep rips in the social fabric on affirmative action and gay marriage, even sifting through 18th-century economic buzz for discussions on corporations' global role.

"There's a great desire now, a sort of underlying patriotism, where everybody is going back to the founding fathers to figure out what the country is about," says Ronald Radosh, a senior fellow at the conservative Hudson Institute in Washington.

Fathers' trip to the fore

From Civil War reenactors to Franklin fanatics, the past has always loomed large in the American psyche. But recently, thinkers are gobbling history at a furious rate - and arguing at a rising pitch.

It's been a while since the country was at such a crossroads. "This discussion ... first happened in the 1770s and it happened last in the 1930s with the New Deal," says Thomas Hartmann, a writer and radio-show host who deals with the Founders' creeds.

Over the past decade, the founders have been topics of far-ranging books, notably on John Adams and Alexander Hamilton. Gouverneur Morris, another key figure in the Constitution, is also the subject of a new book. Even Jonathan Edwards, one of the country's first "revivalists," is the topic of a new tome. David McCullough's look at John Adams in 2001 brought raves, and Walter Isaacson's "Ben Franklin" is opening eyes on the most erudite of the Founders. Many credit National Endowment for the Humanities head Bruce Cole for his "We the People" project, fomenting discussion on classics. It goes beyond books: Philadelphia boasts a new National Constitution Center.

James MacGregor Burns, Pulitzer-prize winning coauthor of the upcoming "George Washington," says Americans are finding refreshment in Jefferson's thoughts as he penned the Declaration of Independence, and in what Franklin intuited as he pored over everything from electricity to flatulence. The men's private conundrums - Jefferson's trysts and Franklin's falling out with his Loyalist son - only make their lives more real, he says, and, somehow, more American.

"There's the enigma of this little country hanging onto the Atlantic seaboard, producing not only the galaxy of leaders that we're talking about, but also the lawyers and editors and teachers.... The question people ask is: How could that happen?" Burns says.

A recasting of history

With some critics questioning today's leadership - and the Democrats' struggle to find an inspiring candidate - Burns sees that era as a wellspring of intellectual relief.

But with interest comes revisionism and emerging parallels: Analyzing homeland security and the Patriot Act, critics point to John Adams's support of the Alien and Sedition Acts, which let him jail political opponents - to protect the nation, he argued. And Jefferson gossip foreshadowed Clintonian rumors not only in trysts, but in his own version of Whitewater. Even now, some historians suggest Jefferson negotiated the Louisiana Purchase illegally. So it may come as no surprise that the forefathers weren't above popular, even risque, topics. Jefferson had thoughts on sexual behavior, supporting punishment for sodomy.

While conservatives pine for John Adams and liberals yearn for James Madison, everyone wants a piece of Jefferson. Though he forged the separation of church and state, even the Christian Right quoted him this week in confronting what many see as a left-leaning bent on the Supreme Court. "You seem to think that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of constitutional interpretation - a very dangerous doctrine indeed," Jefferson wrote to a colleague.

"How wise Jefferson was," marveled evangelist Pat Robertson this week.

And in that war of founders' words, some say, is another trend in analysis. "With people as complex as the founders, you can pretty much use their writings to justify any kind of modern position, and that's the danger," says Mr. Hartmann, who just finished reading 6,000 of Jefferson's letters.

For example, says Hartmann, Jefferson's Democratic party is the longest surviving political party in the history of civilization - but the White House has reinvented him as a Republican in a reference on its website.

In the end, say historians, the appeal is resurgent because the country is still changing. And through the forefathers' mounds of letters, historians and laypeople find an unvarnished wisdom - early chapters of modern US history, written in the the Enlightenment's glow. "All that was in front of them was ancient Greek and Latin history, the history of Christianity and the history of Britain, and that's what they're basing their philosophy on," says Lenni Brenner, a historian and writer for the leftist CounterPunch.com website.

For the Hemings clan, at least, the lure of history goes beyond Jefferson's failure to fight slavery in his personal life, to the nuances of a man leading a country and searching for self. "We're all looking for the full picture," says Ms. Westerinen. "And we're all writing a book."







Post#7189 at 07-12-2003 03:30 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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07-12-2003, 03:30 PM #7189
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I've seen this new interest in the Founders reflected in the popularity of book titles such as John Adams by David McCullough, Founding Brothers by Joseph Ellis, and Walter Isaacson's new biography of Benjamin Franklin.

The Wisconsin Humanities Council is also starting a "Wisconsin Reads" initiative next year, and one of the books they've chosen is Founding Brothers.







Post#7190 at 07-12-2003 03:30 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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07-12-2003, 03:30 PM #7190
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I've seen this new interest in the Founders reflected in the popularity of book titles such as John Adams by David McCullough, Founding Brothers by Joseph Ellis, and Walter Isaacson's new biography of Benjamin Franklin.

The Wisconsin Humanities Council is also starting a "Wisconsin Reads" initiative next year, and one of the books they've chosen is Founding Brothers.







Post#7191 at 07-12-2003 03:30 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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07-12-2003, 03:30 PM #7191
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I've seen this new interest in the Founders reflected in the popularity of book titles such as John Adams by David McCullough, Founding Brothers by Joseph Ellis, and Walter Isaacson's new biography of Benjamin Franklin.

The Wisconsin Humanities Council is also starting a "Wisconsin Reads" initiative next year, and one of the books they've chosen is Founding Brothers.







Post#7192 at 07-13-2003 01:23 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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07-13-2003, 01:23 PM #7192
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Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)







Post#7193 at 07-13-2003 01:23 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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07-13-2003, 01:23 PM #7193
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Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)







Post#7194 at 07-13-2003 01:23 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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07-13-2003, 01:23 PM #7194
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Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)







Post#7195 at 07-13-2003 01:39 PM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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07-13-2003, 01:39 PM #7195
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Re: Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)
Ah, that explains it. Thank you, Mr. Saari. :lol:








Post#7196 at 07-13-2003 01:39 PM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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07-13-2003, 01:39 PM #7196
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Re: Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)
Ah, that explains it. Thank you, Mr. Saari. :lol:








Post#7197 at 07-13-2003 01:39 PM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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07-13-2003, 01:39 PM #7197
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Re: Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)
Ah, that explains it. Thank you, Mr. Saari. :lol:








Post#7198 at 07-15-2003 03:33 PM by monoghan [at Ohio joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,189]
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07-15-2003, 03:33 PM #7198
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Re: Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)
Ah, that explains it. Thank you, Mr. Saari. :lol:

Well, Seadog, that picture answers the old question "Is it a bunny or a chicken?"







Post#7199 at 07-15-2003 03:33 PM by monoghan [at Ohio joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,189]
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07-15-2003, 03:33 PM #7199
Join Date
Jun 2002
Location
Ohio
Posts
1,189

Re: Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)
Ah, that explains it. Thank you, Mr. Saari. :lol:

Well, Seadog, that picture answers the old question "Is it a bunny or a chicken?"







Post#7200 at 07-15-2003 03:33 PM by monoghan [at Ohio joined Jun 2002 #posts 1,189]
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07-15-2003, 03:33 PM #7200
Join Date
Jun 2002
Location
Ohio
Posts
1,189

Re: Are we in the Fourth Turning? The e-yarrow stalks say:

Quote Originally Posted by Seadog '66
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The present is embodied in Hexagram 49 - Ko (Revolution): What takes place is believed in only after it has been accomplished. There will be great progress and success. Advantage will come from being firm and correct. In that case, occasion for repentance will disappear.

The second line, divided, shows its subject making his changes after some time has passed. Action taken will be fortunate. There will be no error.

The fourth line, undivided, shows occasion for repentance disappearing from its subject. Let him be believed in, and though he change existing ordinances, there will be good fortune.
The situation is shifting, but neither Yin (the passive feminine force) nor Yang (the active masculine force) is gaining ground.






The future is embodied in Hexagram 5 - Hsu (Waiting): With sincerity, there will be brilliant success. With firmness there will be good fortune, and it will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

The things most apparent, those above and in front, are embodied by the upper trigram Tui (Lake), which is tansforming into K'an (Water). As part of this process, joy, pleasure, and attraction are giving way to danger and the unknown.

The things least apparent, those below and behind, are embodied by the lower trigram Li (Fire), which is transforming into Chi'en (Heaven). As part of this process, brightness and warmth are giving way to strength and creativity.


I Ching

HTH 8)
Ah, that explains it. Thank you, Mr. Saari. :lol:

Well, Seadog, that picture answers the old question "Is it a bunny or a chicken?"
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