Originally Posted by Rick Hirst

Welcome to T4T! 8)

Originally Posted by Harv

Originally Posted by Rick Hirst

Every single foreign and domestic policy decision should be oriented toward eliminating the need for oil imports within 5 years. Otherwise, we're going to be fighting, and losing, a war with China within 10 years.

why on earth would we be fighting a war against China at all? Yes, in case of a sharp drop in oil production as a result of the oil peak, both countries would be badly needing oil to operate their massive economies, and a war between them would only waste more oil for both. The "winner" of the war wouldn't be in control of any more oil, either. And don't think such a war could be fought in the middle east...the Chinese don't have the capability to project force that far abroad.

Short answer: it's the way of the saeculum.

Long answer: tensions have been escalating with China for some time. Oil supply is one issue; there's also outsourcing and the current account deficit, not to mention Taiwan and Tibet. We're on a collision course, and nothing I see in the current Administration's policies is moving us away from that collision.

Yes, of course it would collossally stupid to wage war with China, not the least because we are both nuclear powers. But we both have self-images that are explicitly imperialist, and that trend is only strengthening. Once the credit bubble bursts, tensions will continue to ratchet up until the unthinkable becomes thinkable. To be honest, I'm with the Frog on this one.

Agreed. We see ourselves, even without neocons, as the (at least last) guarantor of freedom in the world. Furthermore, one of our most fundamental global policies as a hegemonic power is to not allow any one Eurasian power to dominate the old world so as to best leverage our tremendous naval advantage. What's more again, we will be loathe to allow another power challenge us again navally in the Pacific. Taiwan fits into all this above one way or another.

China historically sees itself as the "Primary Nation", sometimes translated euphemistically as the "Middle Kingdom". That's what "Joong-gwoh", Chinese for "China", literally means. Their worldview puts China in the center of the universe in a sense more embedded than other nations when they do the same.

Indeed, for much of history China has been the largest, richest, and most powerful nation/kingdom/empire on the planet. From this long perspective they see the last few centuries of inferiority as superficial and temporary. They are becoming more confident that they are inevitably returning to their proper place as China now grows economically, technologically, and militarily.

Also there are growing tensions within their society that are worrisome. Fantastic economic growth has left in it's wake demographic and environmental stresses of an astounding nature. It is well known in environmental circles that China is courting disaster with deforestation, dessication, pollution, etc . . . . And hundreds of millions are moving from the rural areas into cities per decade. The cities are not able to handle the strain. With the "One Child" policy having been in place now for over a quarter century, the significantly lop-sided number of young males is a recipe for social instability even without the problems above exaccerbating the problem.

With Communism in de facto disrepute, the Communist party has ironically morphed into a nationalist party in all but name. All of the above leads me to believe a "Galtieri mentality" (think: Malvinas) is very, very possible. That is, keep the people distracted with nationalist pursuits.

I could go on. But for the reasons stated above and the facts that both nations are heading into 4T's soon, I see the potential for some kind of confrontation as very high.

Hmmn. What's this?

http://ariagoesdown.blogspot.com/200...tioned-to.html

So yes, I think Karl "parachutes are genius!" Rove is a moron. Yes, it makes my ears bleed when I hear Bush stumble over the simplest of syntax. Yes, I hate the war in Iraq ? but when left to the Dems we let Kenya go, Nairobi go, the Cole, the first bombing of the WTC and we were rewarded with 9/11. But on 9/11 I was a New Yorker, as I?ve been for 32 years. With my entire family within a 15 mile radius. And on 9/12 I smelled that acrid air and knew what I was smelling. And I don?t ever want to smell that again. I don?t want to see those sobbing faces all over the news again. Sure, there are countries and people who hate us. But you know what? When you are the United States, free, diverse, rich and happy, someone, somewhere will always hate you. So to appease them all seems stupid. And unnecessary, as no country can survive without a handout from the U.S. from time to time, so they?ll just have to get over it at some point and come back to us, hand out and open as usual. And yes, I feel that what goes on in my body is my business. And I don't care that some believe a fetus is a life because you know what? Christian Scientists believe you can buy or chant or whateverthefuck a cancerous tumor out of yourself and I wouldn't want them dictating right-to-life issues either. And yes, it pisses me off that the GOP thinks they have the right to point at any section of society and declare them less than the rest. I don't like the govt. declaring who I should discriminate against. Gays can?t get married? well why the fuck not?!! The Constitution says all men are created equal, well to me, that means gays are entitled to marry. Rick Santorum, you suck and to echo the sentiments of one Ken Wheaton, I wish homosexuality on all your children. But here?s what it boils down to?

If I?m wearing a burqa or a body bag, I can?t have an abortion anyway.

So ~ I?m outing myself. There?s an elephant in the room ladies and gentlemen. I?m not saying where I?ll stand when 2008 arrives {although if Kerry wins my guess is 6 feet south}. But this year? I?m voting for the guy that wants to save my life. Not the one who, with the blessing of the U.N., might at some point, be willing to avenge it afterwards.

Fuck you John Kerry, you?re a pussy.

Sure sounds to me like some people are deciding what a 4T should be about and throwing all other issues overboard.

And they say they're voting that way, too.

Originally Posted by Chris'68

Hmmn. What's this?

http://ariagoesdown.blogspot.com/200...tioned-to.html

[snip]

Sure sounds to me like some people are deciding what a 4T should be about and throwing all other issues overboard.

And they say they're voting that way, too.

So your point is that a lot of people are voting for Bush because the issues all boil down to deterring terrorism (which invading Iraq was somehow about), or that they should vote that way?

The makers, directors Matt Stone and Trey Parker and producer Scott Rudin, are contesting the MPAA classification, saying that the film doesn't show anything that's not been seen before in other R-rated movies. And besides, Rudin told the Hollywood Reporter, "our characters are made of wood and have no genitalia. If the puppets did to each other what we show them doing, all they'd get is splinters."

...Parker pointed to the differences between the MPAAs treatment of simulated violence and simulated sex. Team America features violent scenes in which a Tim Robbins puppet is set on fire and a Susan Sarandon puppet is dropped off a 20-story building - all acts that passed MPAA muster

Puppet oral sex goes against grain for US censors

What's good for the POTUS is good for the puppet! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Vandals targeting Democrat's office in LA

Vandals targeting Democrat's office in PA:

Sign of the impending Crisis or sign of a divisive election year, your call...

Originally Posted by Boean

Vandals targeting Democrat's office in LA

Vandals targeting Democrat's office in PA:

Sign of the impending Crisis or sign of a divisive election year, your call...

Both? Decisive election for sure. But hell, my friends and I pulled down Mondale-Ferraro posters all over Manhattan in 1984. Kids and fanatics will do what kids and fanatics will do!

As for whether this is the Crisis trigger or not, who knows? All I (think I) know is that the trigger is due.

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

Don't forget the union thugs invading the Bush-Cheney offices in Florida. This is more than youthful vandalism, this is much more sinister.

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

Don't forget the union thugs invading the Bush-Cheney offices in Florida. This is more than youthful vandalism, this is much more sinister.

The brownshirts have invaded the BC headquarters in Milwaukee as well. See Drudge link. Of course, nothing in the main stream media. So we have "nudge nudge wink wink, say no more," here and in the MSM.

The cliff approaches. Where's Titus when you need him?

Update: I don't want to leave this as whimsical. This political violence crosses the line and demands broad condemnation. Silence will mean implicit approval.

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

Don't forget the union thugs invading the Bush-Cheney offices in Florida. This is more than youthful vandalism, this is much more sinister.

The brownshirts have invaded the BC headquarters in Milwaukee as well. See Drudge link. Of course, nothing in the main stream media. So we have "nudge nudge wink wink, say no more," here and in the MSM.

The cliff approaches. Where's Titus when you need him?

Update: I don't want to leave this as whimsical. This political violence crosses the line and demands broad condemnation. Silence will mean implicit approval.

Just a few bad apples...

The only thing preventing this election from maybe turning out like the one in 1860, when the South went nuts over Lincoln's victory by siezing a federal fort, is the fact that two states, New York and California, most likely to lead a secession are governed by Republicans.

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

Don't forget the union thugs invading the Bush-Cheney offices in Florida. This is more than youthful vandalism, this is much more sinister.

The brownshirts have invaded the BC headquarters in Milwaukee as well. See Drudge link. Of course, nothing in the main stream media. So we have "nudge nudge wink wink, say no more," here and in the MSM.

The cliff approaches. Where's Titus when you need him?

Update: I don't want to leave this as whimsical. This political violence crosses the line and demands broad condemnation. Silence will mean implicit approval.

Just a few bad apples...

So that's one for approval.

Nobody here is advocating shootings, threats, or ripping up yard signs.

I guess that's what you would call crashing the party. :lol: :lol:

Protesters crashing the offices of both the Democrats and Republicans could be a 4T event. But it largely depends on the reaction, and how widespread this event is. If this results in widespread repeated attacks, then it is a very good 4T indicator.

Originally Posted by monoghan

The cliff approaches. Where's Titus when you need him?

Indeed!!!

I hope his wife will give him a temporary reprieve and let him post!

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

Don't forget the union thugs invading the Bush-Cheney offices in Florida. This is more than youthful vandalism, this is much more sinister.

The brownshirts have invaded the BC headquarters in Milwaukee as well. See Drudge link. Of course, nothing in the main stream media. So we have "nudge nudge wink wink, say no more," here and in the MSM.

The cliff approaches. Where's Titus when you need him?

Update: I don't want to leave this as whimsical. This political violence crosses the line and demands broad condemnation. Silence will mean implicit approval.

Just a few bad apples...

So that's one for approval.

I doubt that Mon. I think he's making a (very witty) reference to Bush's handling of Abu Ghraib. 8)

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

The only thing preventing this election from maybe turning out like the one in 1860, when the South went nuts over Lincoln's victory by siezing a federal fort, is the fact that two states, New York and California, most likely to lead a secession are governed by Republicans.

My God! An astute point . . . for a change. Very good Trog, keep taking those pills.

Originally Posted by monoghan

Don't forget the union thugs invading the Bush-Cheney offices in Florida. This is more than youthful vandalism, this is much more sinister.

Agreed . . . on both sides, Dem and GOP. I think this violence is inspired, if not sometimes actually carried out, by late midlife Boomers. This does not primarily smack of Xer nihilism or Millie coming-of-age antics.

Originally Posted by monoghan

Update: I don't want to leave this as whimsical. This political violence crosses the line and demands broad condemnation. Silence will mean implicit approval.

Originally Posted by Kiff 1961

Nobody here is advocating shootings, threats, or ripping up yard signs.

I agree with both of you and chime in. We should all add our voices to that chorus. :shock:

Originally Posted by Shemsu Heru

Protesters crashing the offices of both the Democrats and Republicans could be a 4T event. But it largely depends on the reaction, and how widespread this event is. If this results in widespread repeated attacks, then it is a very good 4T indicator.

Agreed. Could the nonsense seen in the satirical The Second Civil War (1997) actually happen???

Originally Posted by Kiff 1961

Nobody here is advocating shootings, threats, or ripping up yard signs.

Ah, but if it had been Kerry headquarters, I dare say that the condemnations would be ringing. Again, silence is approval.

Is this how you (plural) want to win? You accept these allies? You hate Bush that much to tolerate this level of copycat (if not organized) political violence?

Hey, folks, this is just how the KKK got away with what they did for years. Just some good old boys (few rotten apples) doing stuff that just happens to redound to your benefit, right? This stinks.

Originally Posted by monoghan

Originally Posted by Kiff 1961

Nobody here is advocating shootings, threats, or ripping up yard signs.

Ah, but if it had been Kerry headquarters, I dare say that the condemnations would be ringing. Again, silence is approval.

Is this how you (plural) want to win? You accept these allies? You hate Bush that much to tolerate this level of copycat (if not organized) political violence?

Hey, folks, this is just how the KKK got away with what they did for years. Just some good old boys (few rotten apples) doing stuff that just happens to redound to your benefit, right? This stinks.

Mon, it's happening on BOTH sides. Don't let Matt Drudge make you think it is one-sided. But I agree with you that it is disturbing and everyone here should condemn it . . . even if it happens to the headquarters of the Communist or Christian Nationalist parties. I'm serious.

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

My God. And this is in the RED Zone! :shock:

Originally Posted by monoghan

Is this how you (plural) want to win? You accept these allies? You hate Bush that much to tolerate this level of copycat (if not organized) political violence?

I thought I made myself perfectly clear above. And I highly resent your continued accusations and straw man arguments with no basis in fact.

I don't believe in violence as a means to a political end. I thought you understood that.

Having said that, however, I'm not at all surprised that it is going on this year, on either side. Not at all. This is a highly charged, emotional election.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

My God. And this is in the RED Zone! :shock:

Of course. The Red Zone is the more violent in general. :|

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Originally Posted by Andy '85

Not to be outdone . . . .

Bush-Cheney Office in Tennessee Hit by Gunshots

Protestors Ransack Bush/Cheney Headquarters In Orlando

My God. And this is in the RED Zone! :shock:

If Bush takes a red state in a huge landslide (let's say 60 percent Bush, 38 percent Kerry, 2 percent other), that is still well over a third of the electorate who dislike Bush enough to vote for a "Nor-eastern lib'ral". That's a lot of mad Southerners.