Marc Lamb already started a thread about this under "October Surprise 2004."

This is just one of many stories about bogus registrations, ripped-up registrations, absentee ballot irregularities, push polls, stolen lawn signs, shots fired at campaign HQs, etc., etc.

This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone after the debacle that was E2K. I expect these stories to escalate up to and including the day of the election.

As evidence that we are, if not already in the Cascade Phase of the 4T, then very close to the Catalyst, I offer two items, both from the front page of the 'Life' segment (Section D) of last Thursday's 'USA Today'.

1) Perhaps trivial, but perhaps surprisingly important, an article indicating that so-called 'reality TV' - a late 3T phenomenon if ever there was one - is taking a pounding in the Nielsens.

2) According to an article on how to keep political differences within a marital or other romantic relationship (of the 'I'm for Bush, but she likes Kerry' sort) from posing an increased threat to said relationships of a level not seen in a long time, two things are mentioned aside from the main topic. One is the increasing tendency among singles to date only people of similar political views. The other item is an exposition of *why* our political differences have become so bitter as to raise the specter of possible civil war, not to mention threatening previously stable relationships - since 9/11, most people in America have become at least somewhat anxious and afraid, and have to that extent switched into survival mode. This has become a polarizing condition because each side (conservative and liberal) sincerely believes that if the other gets in this time, we're doomed as a society. Thus, someone who supports 'the other side', even if we sleep with said person every night, almost inevitably becomes seen as a potentially dire threat to our survival. Would anyone out there, on either side, care to imagine the stress that can put on a marriage or romance?

Originally Posted by Titus Sabinus Parthicus

1) Perhaps trivial, but perhaps surprisingly important, an article indicating that so-called 'reality TV' - a late 3T phenomenon if ever there was one - is taking a pounding in the Nielsens.

Even so, they're probably still more profitable than the "scripted dramas". How much does the cast of ER pull down these days??

Originally Posted by Titus Sabinus Parthicus

Would anyone out there, on either side, care to imagine the stress that can put on a marriage or romance?

It's certainly stressing my marriage, and that's with my wife on the same side (ABB). I just tend to get so worked up about it that it drives her nuts. :oops:

Actually, the movie Team America: World Police strikes me as almost inherently Third Turning-ish.

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

Another common theme coming up again and again is how things just don't seem to work right anymore. I hear it at my job, my wife hears it, my Dad, my Mom, my friends. Everywhere!

My explanation is the we are at the very, very end of a 3T and individualism and institutional decay are now becoming seriously dysfunctional.

I agree.

In my view, an Unravelling proceeds from the bottom up, in sync with the Generational pattern. Basically, as the Adaptive Generation replaces the Civic Generation in any given institution, it begins to Unravel, as they elevate a concern for fairness and process and (esp.) self-expression and self-fulfillment over the self-discipline and group cohesion favored by their next-elders. Thus the institutions become simultaneously fairer and more open, and more disconnected and ineffective in practice.

Different institutions Unravel at different rates and times, depending on phase of life and luck of the position. Today, almost last of all, we're seeing the international system bequeathed by the end of World War II Unravel, in precise synch with the control of that system by the Silents, with growing Boomer pressure from below straining the weakening fabric.

Originally Posted by Sam I Am

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

My wife told me that today at lunch her coworkers brought up the topic of severe civil unrest in light of another screwed up election. Election fraud and violence were the topic for a good twenty minutes, and discussion got passionate (mixed Xer/Boomer crowd). She didn't even bring up "fourth turnings" or anything as her knowledge of it all is limited. But she's becoming more convinced that S&H are onto something in terms of something big coming up in society.

Another common theme coming up again and again is how things just don't seem to work right anymore. I hear it at my job, my wife hears it, my Dad, my Mom, my friends. Everywhere!

My explanation is the we are at the very, very end of a 3T and individualism and institutional decay are now becoming seriously dysfunctional. Society just cannot go on this way with pressure mounting like this. Even if E2K4 is not the trigger, some event will be set it off in the not too distant future. I don't see us lasting this way to 2008.

If you think Bush wins this time, as I and several others do, then 2006 is the transition election. That may be better, because who would guess?

Care to join the 2006 chorus? 8)

I've said before that 2005-6 would be just about the right time, in theoretical terms, because I believe that the previous transition years were 1945-46, 1965-66, and 1985-86, with a few local variations.

Thus, if I am right, this Cycle has seen Turnings of about 20 years length, and the next one would be about 'due' next year or the year after. But that would be an approximation, I wouldn't be stunned to see it come as late as 2007 or 2008.

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

...In my view, an Unravelling proceeds from the bottom up, in sync with the Generational pattern. Basically, as the Adaptive Generation replaces the Civic Generation in any given institution, it begins to Unravel, as they elevate a concern for fairness and process and (esp.) self-expression and self-fulfillment over the self-discipline and group cohesion favored by their next-elders. Thus the institutions become simultaneously fairer and more open, and more disconnected and ineffective in practice...

I, too, like using those generational descriptors from Generations (S&H, 1991) better than the loaded ones from T4T; "Artists," for example, seems too presumptive to me. And "Reactives" seems like a better word for the so-called "Nomads."

--Croakmore

Originally Posted by Joseph Gradecki

Concerning "Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning"...

Has this come up yet?

The Kerry/Edwards campaign and the Democratic National Committee are advising election operatives to declare voter intimidation -- even if none exists...

A 66-page mobilization plan to be issued by the Kerry/Edwards campaign and the Democratic National Committee states: "If no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged yet, launch a 'pre-emptive strike.'"

I apologize if it has already, but nothing says 4T to me like evidence that one of the major political parties would rather turn our country into a banana republic then gracefully admit that they lost. Talk about your Boomer behavior!

So, no matter what happens, we're in for a replay of Florida writ large? I'm thinking of buying a gun. Thanks, DNC!

And you know all this...how? Because Karl Rove says it's true? Fuck him!

Never mind, Sean, I have found the thread!

For everyone's information, all of the above about moi is correct in reference to my feelings about Marc Lamb. I am back until after Election Day, for sure, as we are working the election. I will start out trying not to let Marc get to me, and take Croaker, Seadog, and David Kaiser's excellent advice. Marc will surely infuriate me, frustrate me and I will fight against letting him intimidate me, but it will eventually happen. This time, I'm just going to enjoy my time here until then!

I have remarried and now share a happy existence with a wonderful man whose political values are what I call progressive moderate. It is very satisfying after almost 50 years with a right-winger and closet John Bircher. I've been chuckling at the posts on relationships meeting political beliefs.....

David Kaiser, I also read your post about if Kerry wins and realized we are headed for fan particles no matter who wins. The Silent in me subconsciously denies reality sometimes in search for peaceful resolution. At any rate, I really like your take on things. Very refreshing.

Now, how about this to add to the scenario? We at one time long ago wrote off McCain as the Grey Champion, but many of us around me think that the only reason he is supporting Bush is because Bush & Co made him a deal that they will endorse him as the GOP candidate in 2008. Do you think that is possible?

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

And you know all this...how? Because Karl Rove says it's true? Fuck him!

Oh my Lord, Roadbldr, I couldn't have said it better myself! Bravo!

My better half has even suggested that Dan Rather was set up by The Rover as Dan has had a key spot on the Bush Family's Hit List for many years...... that makes more sense than anything the media is saying about it! Too bad, though, as I bet they were going for Dan to be fired over it........

BTW, Kitty Kelly's new book The Family is very good. A tad bit redundant in places, but Recommended. And if I ever can finish Bill Clinton's My Life, I'll be lucky, but the first half is very good. He is a very good writer.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Originally Posted by Joseph Gradecki

Concerning "Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning"...

Has this come up yet?

The Kerry/Edwards campaign and the Democratic National Committee are advising election operatives to declare voter intimidation -- even if none exists...

A 66-page mobilization plan to be issued by the Kerry/Edwards campaign and the Democratic National Committee states: "If no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged yet, launch a 'pre-emptive strike.'"

I apologize if it has already, but nothing says 4T to me like evidence that one of the major political parties would rather turn our country into a banana republic then gracefully admit that they lost. Talk about your Boomer behavior!

So, no matter what happens, we're in for a replay of Florida writ large? I'm thinking of buying a gun. Thanks, DNC!

And you know all this...how? Because Karl Rove says it's true? Fuck him!

We know it because the "Election Day Manual" is authentic, and has been confirmed to be so by the DNC itself.

p.s. Welcome back, Ms. Barb. We missed ya! 8)

Originally Posted by Barbara

Now, how about this to add to the scenario? We at one time long ago wrote off McCain as the Grey Champion, but many of us around me think that the only reason he is supporting Bush is because Bush & Co made him a deal that they will endorse him as the GOP candidate in 2008. Do you think that is possible?

Dear Ms. A, er Mrs. X, er Barbara, :oops:

Welcome back, I think very foolhardy for anyone, even one as accustomed to torture and abuse as Mr. McCain, to make a deal with Bushco, PLC. I think Jeb will run with either Lynne or Mary in 2008 and they will have a vast advantage in yard signs and bumper stickers at the get go.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Dear Ms. A, er Mrs. X, er Barbara, :oops:

Welcome back, I think very foolhardy for anyone, even one as accustomed to torture and abuse as Mr. McCain, to make a deal with Bushco, PLC. I think Jeb will run with either Lynne or Mary in 2008 and they will have a vast advantage in yard signs and bumper stickers at the get go.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Thanks for the chuckle!

Originally Posted by Rick Hirst

It's certainly stressing my marriage, and that's with my wife on the same side (ABB). I just tend to get so worked up about it that it drives her nuts. :oops:

And I find myself trying to calm my husband down quite a bit.

Barbara:

Congratulations on your marriage. That's wonderful news.

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

p.s. Welcome back, Ms. Barb. We missed ya! 8)

Enough "evidence" supplied for you, Trog? :evil:

So glad to see you back, Barbara. And congratulations for your personal changes. BTW: It'll be Hillary vs. McCain in 2008, 'cause Kerry is sure to lose this one for the doodlebugged Democrats.

--Croak

Welcome back, Barbara!
You have been missed.
Congratulations on your marriage.

Originally Posted by Barbara

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

And you know all this...how? Because Karl Rove says it's true? Fuck him!

Oh my Lord, Roadbldr, I couldn't have said it better myself! Bravo!

My better half has even suggested that Dan Rather was set up by The Rover as Dan has had a key spot on the Bush Family's Hit List for many years...... that makes more sense than anything the media is saying about it! Too bad, though, as I bet they were going for Dan to be fired over it........

Still, it is the textbook Rove technique for blinding people to embarrassing truths about Junior. You deliberately mix the facts with a certain fiction which will later be exposed. In the hullabaloo that follows exposure of the fiction, the people will automatically reject ALL of it, even the facts. In this sinister, deceitful, purely Luciferian way, Junior is "miraculously" freed (in the popular consciousness) from the taint of so many of the past failures in his wasted life.

With respect to the National Guard issue, a document was apparently forged which simply reiterated the facts from Junior's service rcord (i.e. that he did not report as ordered and lost his flight certification as a consequence). The necessary fiction was of course the document itself. Once it was released to the public, the document was exposed as an apparent forgery as planned. In the aftermath, the mass of people seem to have even lost sight of the fact that it has always been undeniably true that Junior did not report as ordered (i.e. they have disregarded all the plain facts contained in the false document, taking the curious bait that everything about a false document must be false). And so Rove scores another diabolical victory for the Luciferian creeps in the White House.

You may recall that Rove used a similar technique in the whole business about Junior performing community service in Houston thirty years ago for an alleged cocaine bust or something. In prepping the matter for public consumption, Rove called the then Democratic judges Republican. And when it was established that there were no Republican judges in Houston at the time (these were Democratic judges who only later became Republican), the entire issue was dismissed in the popular consciousness and there was no more talk of Junior's drug bust and the public service he allegedly performed. Rove is simply brilliant with these diabolical deceptions, which of course is why the Luciferian creeps in the White House keep him employed.

By the way, welcome back.

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Actually, the movie Team America: World Police strikes me as almost inherently Third Turning-ish.

I'll reserve judgement until I see it. But it does sound very 3T Nomad!

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

p.s. Welcome back, Ms. Barb. We missed ya! 8)

Enough "evidence" supplied for you, Trog? :evil:

What? That I mistakenly thought it silly that I could actually "intimidate" Ms. Barb, with mere words? Or the original assertion that liberals really do believe MLK's "dream" turned out worse than any of WJB's "lost causes"?

You called me a bigot for suggesting the latter was true, while Croaker cheered me for believing the former was insult Ms. Barb's character. Does he get the :evil: treatment, too?

Stick with your righteous crusade of stalking the Devil's Advocate at every turn, dude. We've only a few weeks left till I'm outta here anyway, as promised. Then T4T will belong soley to those who think just like you do. 8)

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

p.s. Welcome back, Ms. Barb. We missed ya! 8)

Enough "evidence" supplied for you, Trog? :evil:

What? That I mistakenly thought it silly that I could actually "intimidate" Ms. Barb, with mere words? Or the original assertion that liberals really do believe MLK's "dream" turned out worse than any of WJB's "lost causes"?

You called me a bigot for suggesting the latter was true, while Croaker cheered me for believing the former was insult Ms. Barb's character. Does he get the :evil: treatment, too?

Stick with your righteous crusade of stalking the Devil's Advocate at every turn, dude. We've only a few weeks left till I'm outta here anyway, as promised. Then T4T will belong soley to those who think just like you do. 8)

Not just a river in Egypt!

Originally Posted by Mr. Marc Lamb

We've only a few weeks left till I'm outta here anyway, as promised. Then T4T will belong soley to those who think just like you do.

This seems to be a "campaign" promise on Mr. Lamb's part. It's a Clintonian truth that has come many times before.

He may be "outta" here for say five minutes, or a day, or a week to keep his Clintonian word. Or the DA may leave and another of Mr. Lamb's manifestations will come back to T4T.

His word is as good as that of the POTUS. They are both honest men.

But, Mr. Lamb may flip-flop as the Bounaparte cousins are apt to do. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, eh? :wink:

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

p.s. Welcome back, Ms. Barb. We missed ya! 8)

Enough "evidence" supplied for you, Trog? :evil:

What? That I mistakenly thought it silly that I could actually "intimidate" Ms. Barb, with mere words? Or the original assertion that liberals really do believe MLK's "dream" turned out worse than any of WJB's "lost causes"?

You called me a bigot for suggesting the latter was true, while Croaker cheered me for believing the former was insult Ms. Barb's character. Does he get the :evil: treatment, too?

Stick with your righteous crusade of stalking the Devil's Advocate at every turn, dude. We've only a few weeks left till I'm outta here anyway, as promised. Then T4T will belong soley to those who think just like you do. 8)

1. You did intimidate Barbara. Ask her.

2. You are a bigot because you believe black equality is a lost cause. William Jennings Bryan (the historical figure) has no bearing on that.

3. Croaker expressed disbelief, but he did not attack me and was completely civil about it. We've PM'ed each other about the issue and I'm sure Barbara will (and already has) set the record straight.

4. I'm not stalking you. You're not that important. I am mirroring your bile for therapeutic purposes, among other things.

5. I doubt you'll leave.