If this was the Fourth Turning, destroying Al Qaeda would have been our first priority and we wouldn't have out sourced the job to, what Kerry accurately described as, "the Afghan warlords."
Needless to say, we still have the same terrorism strategy that we had in the 90s, which is that of law enforcement. While we tinker around and slowly lose in Iraq, the enemy has more resources to hit a bewildered America again - maybe tomorrow, in a way that will shock us just as much as it did the first time.
There has been no paradigm shift in how we deal with that very significant foe.

Originally Posted by Bat Mitzvah Girl

Originally Posted by elilevin

Jenny,

Are congratulations in order?

I had my Bat Mitzvah on Shabbat Chol ha-Moed Pesach 15 years ago, at the age of 32. Did you just have one during Pesach?

Yes, a group of nine of us (8 women and a lone man) became b'nei mitzvah Saturday afternoon. After the Shabbat Torah-reading service, we had a quick havdallah service and then celebrated our b'nei mitzvahood (or however you want to phrase it) and the end of Pesach by eating challah and then going in for a catered dinner.

I was able to do my four lines of Torah with some competency, so I feel tremendously relieved! And it was a lovely service. Roadbldr '59 came to be with me on that special day; as I write this, he is probably boarding his plane to take him back home. I think he got a kick out of the dor v'dor (translation -- generation to generation) part of the service. :wink:

He was joined by my mother, one of my sisters, my brother, and other family and friends, and of course, my daughter, who will become Bat Mitzvah in about 2 1/2 years.

It was wonderful.

Mazel tov!

Originally Posted by Blue Stater

If this was the Fourth Turning, destroying Al Qaeda would have been our first priority and we wouldn't have out sourced the job to, what Kerry accurately described as, "the Afghan warlords."

Page One story from yesterday's Washington Post:

• U.S. Sees Drop in Terrorist Threats
  Al Qaeda Focusing Attacks in Iraq and Europe, Officials Say
  
  By Dana Priest and Spencer Hsu
  Washington Post Staff Writers
  Sunday, May 1, 2005; Page A01
  
  Reports of credible terrorist threats against the United States are at their lowest level since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, according to U.S. intelligence officials and federal and state law enforcement authorities.
  
  The intelligence community's daily threat assessment, developed after the terrorist attacks to keep policymakers informed, currently lists, on average, 25 to 50 percent fewer threats against domestic targets than it typically did over the past two years, said one senior counterterrorism official.
  
  A broad cross section of counterterrorism officials believes al Qaeda and like-minded groups, in part frustrated by increased U.S. security measures, are focusing instead on Americans deployed in Iraq, where the groups operate with relative impunity, and on Europe.

But something tells me that the poster is actually mad because al Qaeda isn't having any success here: If they were, Bush would be Hoover, and Kerry would be president.

What a pitiful, not to mention vacuous, way to look forward to elections, eh, just hoping the other guys screw up so you might win one.

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

What a pitiful, not to mention vacuous, way to look forward to elections, eh, just hoping the other guys screw up so you might win one.

It is pitiful that you chicken hawks choose to defer a war rather than fight it.
Coward.

Originally Posted by Blue Stater

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

What a pitiful, not to mention vacuous, way to look forward to elections, eh, just hoping the other guys screw up so you might win one.

It is pitiful that you chicken hawks choose to defer a war rather than fight it.
Coward.

Ahhh... The strawman fallacy... Attributing false positions to one's debate opponents.

Could you two at least come up with some new false positions? Or maybe you could talk about what other person is saying, rather than invent stupid things they never said?

Waste of perfectly good bandwidth...

I don't have a lot of time tonight, but I thought of another movie that (IMO) plays directly to the Generational tensions. I may have mentioned this before, a while back, I can't remember.

In 1970, a movie called Colossus: The Forbin Project came out, based on the novel of the same name by D.F. Jones from some years earlier. The movie is arguably horror, or at least has horror elements, though that's debatable depending on your definitions.

IMO, though, it captures the Silent ambivalence about G.I. megaprojects and technophila quite clearly.

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

Originally Posted by Blue Stater

Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate

What a pitiful, not to mention vacuous, way to look forward to elections, eh, just hoping the other guys screw up so you might win one.

It is pitiful that you chicken hawks choose to defer a war rather than fight it.
Coward.

Ahhh... The strawman fallacy... Attributing false positions to one's debate opponents.

Could you two at least come up with some new false positions? Or maybe you could talk about what other person is saying, rather than invent stupid things they never said?

Waste of perfectly good bandwidth...

H-m-m-m. You're recommending that duelists try fencing. Fencing is all attack, no defense: you try to win. Dueling is mostly defense: you try not to lose.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

H-m-m-m. You're recommending that duelists try fencing. Fencing is all attack, no defense: you try to win. Dueling is mostly defense: you try not to lose.

Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into a position which makes defeat impossible, and does not miss the moment for defeating the enemy.

--Sun Tzu

An item from Sports Illustrated. Considering Texas attitudes towards football, I'm not sure if it is an omen of 3T of 4T, but...

1. Texas lawmakers are weighing a cheerleading bill that would outlaw sexually suggestive moves. Cheerleaders throughout the state demanded that the politicians Bring ... It ... On!

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

H-m-m-m. You're recommending that duelists try fencing. Fencing is all attack, no defense: you try to win. Dueling is mostly defense: you try not to lose.

Maybe true with swords. In political flaming, when someone resorts to blatant fallacy combined with insults way off the topic of debate, this is interpreted as conceding defeat. These two seem to be embracing defeat.

Originally Posted by catfishncod

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

H-m-m-m. You're recommending that duelists try fencing. Fencing is all attack, no defense: you try to win. Dueling is mostly defense: you try not to lose.

Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into a position which makes defeat impossible, and does not miss the moment for defeating the enemy.

--Sun Tzu

Ah, but the-best-of-the-best sword fighters went straight for the kill:

You must utterly cut the enemy down so that he does not recover his position. You much understand how to utterly cut down the enemy.

--Miyamoto Musashi

Originally Posted by Croakmore

Originally Posted by catfishncod

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

H-m-m-m. You're recommending that duelists try fencing. Fencing is all attack, no defense: you try to win. Dueling is mostly defense: you try not to lose.

Making no mistakes is what establishes the certainty of victory, for it means conquering an enemy that is already defeated.

Hence the skillful fighter puts himself into a position which makes defeat impossible, and does not miss the moment for defeating the enemy.

--Sun Tzu

Ah, but the-best-of-the-best sword fighters went straight for the kill:

You must utterly cut the enemy down so that he does not recover his position. You much understand how to utterly cut down the enemy.

--Miyamoto Musashi

I've heard what the frog has said, at least in samurai swordplay. When doing practice fencing combat, bouts can be lengthy. In live duels, fights often ended with the first stroke.

Not that this applies to cyber-political debates.

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

An item from Sports Illustrated. Considering Texas attitudes towards football, I'm not sure if it is an omen of 3T of 4T, but...

1. Texas lawmakers are weighing a cheerleading bill that would outlaw sexually suggestive moves. Cheerleaders throughout the state demanded that the politicians Bring ... It ... On!

and who gets to decide how "sexually suggestive" is defined? There are many who are aroused just by cheerleaders in general. Perhaps they should wear chadors...

For what it's worth (which may not be very much), I happened to flip on the TV, and as I type this, PrimeTime Live is running a show about American Idol's current 'scandal' with Paula Abdul.

Somehow, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, the focus on this strongly suggests that we still be 3T to me.

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

For what it's worth (which may not be very much), I happened to flip on the TV, and as I type this, PrimeTime Live is running a show about American Idol's current 'scandal' with Paula Abdul.

Somehow, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, the focus on this strongly suggests that we still be 3T to me.

If people actually pay atention, I'll agree.

Originally Posted by Semo '75

Originally Posted by mandelbrot5

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

An item from Sports Illustrated. Considering Texas attitudes towards football, I'm not sure if it is an omen of 3T of 4T, but...

1. Texas lawmakers are weighing a cheerleading bill that would outlaw sexually suggestive moves. Cheerleaders throughout the state demanded that the politicians Bring ... It ... On!

and who gets to decide how "sexually suggestive" is defined? There are many who are aroused just by cheerleaders in general. Perhaps they should wear chadors...

Strictly speaking, the proposed bill wouldn't actually ban anything at all if it were passed into law. It would allow the state government to reduce funding to school districts that permit "sexually suggestive" cheerleading performances.

As far as who gets to decide what the standard should be, it would ultimately be the people of the state of Texas, by way of their elected representatives.

In other words, Texas politicians get to condemn coaches and parents for allowing "sexually suggestive" behaviour under the public spotlight, and reap political benefits for doing so. I think the possible negative ramifications should be obvious.

Despite this, it's impressive how suggestive cheerleading routines can be, even in a private Baptist school in a Red state where prayers are read over the intercom every morning. My brother ('87 cohort) attended such a school for a few years....

Evidence that we are in a 4T:

Apocalyptic talk is getting common. People begin to think that the Book of Revelation clearly depicts the immediate future.

Many people talk -- whether with horror or delight -- of the prospect of single-party domination of US politics in which nearly half of all people will be rendered politically irrelevant.

Evidence that we are still in a 3T:

Celebrity is a supposed value in itself.
Economic inequality is intensifying, and people go along with it.
Efforts to regiment society face resistance.
Popular culture is not being sanitized.
Ethnic, religious, regional, and generational divisions in culture continue to intensify with 'retro' styles in vogue.
The economy sputters along as we have seen in the recent past.
i

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

For what it's worth (which may not be very much), I happened to flip on the TV, and as I type this, PrimeTime Live is running a show about American Idol's current 'scandal' with Paula Abdul.

Somehow, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, the focus on this strongly suggests that we still be 3T to me.

I agree. Which means I am agreeing with HC. Which is the best argument I've ever seen on this board that I am wrong about us being 3T. :wink:

Right-winger PC run amok:

School Board bans band from performing "Louie Louie"

Dawning said that if a majority of parents supports their children playing the song, she will reconsider her decision.

"It was not that I knew at the beginning and said nothing," Dawning said. "I normally count on the staff to make reliable decisions. I found out because a parent called, concerned about the song being played."

"A parent called." One parent. And this nimrod won't even check out the allegation of raunchy lyrics. :evil:

Originally Posted by Peter Gibbons

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

For what it's worth (which may not be very much), I happened to flip on the TV, and as I type this, PrimeTime Live is running a show about American Idol's current 'scandal' with Paula Abdul.

Somehow, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, the focus on this strongly suggests that we still be 3T to me.

I agree. Which means I am agreeing with HC. Which is the best argument I've ever seen on this board that I am wrong about us being 3T. :wink:

And the hooplah over the Dionne Quintuplets back in the 30s would suggest to Vera '95 that we be 3T in 1936, too?

And the hoopla over Michael Jackson's "kid-molestation" trial is like that of the Scopes "Monkey" trial of 1925, wherein John Scopes was accused of molesting the minds of children by teaching them about Darwinian evolution. Both Jackson and Scopes are Nomads, and their respective trials took place at the very end of a 3T.

--Croakmore

Originally Posted by Kiff 1961

Right-winger PC run amok:

School Board bans band from performing "Louie Louie"

Dawning said that if a majority of parents supports their children playing the song, she will reconsider her decision.

"It was not that I knew at the beginning and said nothing," Dawning said. "I normally count on the staff to make reliable decisions. I found out because a parent called, concerned about the song being played."

"A parent called." One parent. And this nimrod won't even check out the allegation of raunchy lyrics. :evil:

What is this? 1962?

Originally Posted by Croakmore

And the hoopla over Michael Jackson's "kid-molestation" trial is like that of the Scopes "Monkey" trial of 1925, wherein John Scopes was accused of molesting the minds of children by teaching them about Darwinian evolution. Both Jackson and Scopes are Nomads, and their respective trials took place at the very end of a 3T.

--Croakmore

Actually, I think Jackson is a boomer, born in 1959.

Originally Posted by Milo

Originally Posted by Croakmore

And the hoopla over Michael Jackson's "kid-molestation" trial is like that of the Scopes "Monkey" trial of 1925, wherein John Scopes was accused of molesting the minds of children by teaching them about Darwinian evolution. Both Jackson and Scopes are Nomads, and their respective trials took place at the very end of a 3T.

--Croakmore

Actually, I think Jackson is a boomer, born in 1959.

Close - August 1958.

Originally Posted by Milo

Originally Posted by Kiff 1961

Right-winger PC run amok:

School Board bans band from performing "Louie Louie"

Dawning said that if a majority of parents supports their children playing the song, she will reconsider her decision.

"It was not that I knew at the beginning and said nothing," Dawning said. "I normally count on the staff to make reliable decisions. I found out because a parent called, concerned about the song being played."

"A parent called." One parent. And this nimrod won't even check out the allegation of raunchy lyrics. :evil:

What is this? 1962?

It's my understanding that sometime around then, the FBI spent two and a half years investigating whether or not the song had dirty lyrics. I wonder if it's still banned in Indiana.