That Katrina article is interesting. Sometimes I feel like the theory gives one a hand up in guessing what is going on. The author sees it as time to bring the govt back into the public sphere. With the cycle, we can guess that may be right, but know that's not the whole story.

We won't be 4t until there is a consensus that something is wrong. We will let the infrastructure go until it fails. Spectacularly. Period. 911 wasn't a spectular enough failing. katrina wasn't a spectacular enough failing. the 3t unravelling will go until something breaks.

* 911 sure seemed like something broke. but no lasting consensus.
* Katrina sure seemed like something broke. but no lasting consensus, and pledges of printing press money don't really help.
* Iraq seems broke to many people. but no consensus. 500 bil in printing press money is not helping.

I would guess this is going to keep going on, and worsening until both the reds and the blues agree on 1) the problem, 2) to fix it, and 3) how to fix it.

Now, how bad does it have to break for the reds and the blues to agree, and be willing to give up their agendas to fix it? And what are the problems we are letting go because of the 3t? And how do those problems interlace with the concerns of the various players?

Those are the questions.

Sweeter than a Sibelius Symphony

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

An interesting thing appears in today's NY Times--I doubt it's accessible on line. Actually, let me check. . .no. About ten CEO's (I didn't recognize them) bought an entire full page ad to argue that Donald Rumsfeld is an utter failure as a CEO of the Pentagon and should go. They noted stifling dissent, financial mismanagement, lack of accountability, and destroying the reputation of his company (the US of A). In other words, about a dozen very well-to-do citizens put a sizeable chunk of their own cash on the line to tell the world that this can't go on. It makes me feel a lot better as I start off on my Sunday morning bike ride.

David K '47

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

An interesting thing appears in today's NY Times--I doubt it's accessible on line. Actually, let me check. . .no. About ten CEO's (I didn't recognize them) bought an entire full page ad to argue that Donald Rumsfeld is an utter failure as a CEO of the Pentagon and should go. They noted stifling dissent, financial mismanagement, lack of accountability, and destroying the reputation of his company (the US of A). In other words, about a dozen very well-to-do citizens put a sizeable chunk of their own cash on the line to tell the world that this can't go on. It makes me feel a lot better as I start off on my Sunday morning bike ride.

In the words of Al Gore recently regarding the Bush Administration:

"One can only attempt to create one's own reality for so long. Reality proper has a way of insisting itself upon you."

How true. But the longer it takes to "insist", the worse things will be for us when it does.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

An interesting thing appears in today's NY Times--I doubt it's accessible on line. Actually, let me check. . .no. About ten CEO's (I didn't recognize them) bought an entire full page ad to argue that Donald Rumsfeld is an utter failure as a CEO of the Pentagon and should go. They noted stifling dissent, financial mismanagement, lack of accountability, and destroying the reputation of his company (the US of A). In other words, about a dozen very well-to-do citizens put a sizeable chunk of their own cash on the line to tell the world that this can't go on. It makes me feel a lot better as I start off on my Sunday morning bike ride.

In the words of Al Gore recently regarding the Bush Administration:

"One can only attempt to create one's own reality for so long. Reality proper has a way of insisting itself upon you."

How true. But the longer it takes to "insist", the worse things will be for us when it does.

It's pretty bad when a group of CEOs takes a GOP big shot to task. To be honest, I'm a bit shocked. Are they planning on changing teams, or merely hoping to resusitate the team they own? :?

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

An interesting thing appears in today's NY Times--I doubt it's accessible on line. Actually, let me check. . .no. About ten CEO's (I didn't recognize them) bought an entire full page ad to argue that Donald Rumsfeld is an utter failure as a CEO of the Pentagon and should go. They noted stifling dissent, financial mismanagement, lack of accountability, and destroying the reputation of his company (the US of A). In other words, about a dozen very well-to-do citizens put a sizeable chunk of their own cash on the line to tell the world that this can't go on. It makes me feel a lot better as I start off on my Sunday morning bike ride.

In the words of Al Gore recently regarding the Bush Administration:

"One can only attempt to create one's own reality for so long. Reality proper has a way of insisting itself upon you."

How true. But the longer it takes to "insist", the worse things will be for us when it does.

It's pretty bad when a group of CEOs takes a GOP big shot to task. To be honest, I'm a bit shocked. Are they planning on changing teams, or merely hoping to resusitate the team they own? :?

They wish to keep the public interested in their offerings as if the Commercial Republic was a sports franchise such as the NFL. You want people to be rooting for the AFC or the NFC come late season and not dreaming of another sport entirely (fútbol, for instance) with a similar name but another regimen.

Originally Posted by Mr. Frank Chodorov

“(those) who want to clean up the whorehouse, but keep the business intact.

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

I just heard a radio spot for selective service registration.

The tagline was "it lets the world know we're reading for anything."

When I was coming up I think it was something like "dude you like totally have to or whatever."

How about a nice cup of WTF!! For Discussion Purposes Only

The first rule of Silicon Valley fight club is ...

Inspired by film, techies gather for bloody underground beatdowns
By Jordan Robertson
The Associated Press
Updated: 4:14 p.m. CT May 29, 2006

MENLO PARK, Calif. - They may sport love handles and Ivy League degrees, but every two weeks some Silicon Valley techies turn into vicious street brawlers in a real-life, underground fight club.

Kicking, punching and swinging every household object imaginable — from frying pans and tennis rackets to pillowcases stuffed with soda cans — they beat each other mercilessly in a garage in this bedroom community south of San Francisco.

Then, bloodied and bruised, they limp back to their desks in the morning.

"When you get beat down enough, it becomes a very un-macho thing," said Shiyin Siou, 34, a Santa Clara software engineer and three-year veteran of the clandestine fights. "But I don't need this to prove I'm macho — I'm macho enough as it is."

Inspired by the 1999 film "Fight Club," starring Brad Pitt and Ed Norton, underground bare-knuckle brawling clubs have sprung up across the country as a way for desk jockeys and disgruntled youths to vent their frustrations and prove themselves.

"This is as close as you can get to a real fight, even though I've never been in one," the soft-spoken Siou said.

Despite his reserved demeanor, he daydreams about inflicting pain on an attacker. "I have fantasies about it," he said.

In recent months, police in New Jersey and Pennsylvania have broken up fight clubs involving teens and preteens who posted videos of their bloody battles online.

Earlier this month in Arlington, Texas, a high school student who didn't want to participate was beaten so badly that he suffered a brain hemorrhage and broken vertebrae. Six teenagers were arrested after DVDs of the fight appeared for sale online.

Adult groups are more likely to fly under the radar of authorities.

Menlo Park police hadn't heard about the local club and said they wouldn't be likely to take action because the fights are on private property between consenting adults. That could change if someone complains or is sent to a hospital, police said.

'You get to be a superhero for a night'
Gints Klimanis, a 37-year-old software engineer and martial arts instructor, started the invitation-only "Gentlemen's Fight Club" in Menlo Park in 2000 after his no-holds-barred sessions with a training partner grew to more than a dozen people. Most participants are men working in the high-tech industry.

"You get to be a superhero for a night," Klimanis said. "We have to go to work every day. We're constantly told to buy things we don't need, and just for a couple hours we have the freedom to do what we want to do."

One man tends to another's cut after a fightThe only protective equipment used is fencing and hockey masks. Several fighters have suffered broken noses, ribs and fingers.

Men involved in fight clubs often carry bottled-up violent impulses learned in childhood from video games, cartoons and movies, said Michael Messner, a University of Southern California sociology and gender studies professor.

"Boys have these warrior fantasies picked up from popular culture, and schools sort of force that out of them," he said. In these fantasies, "The good guys always resort to violence, and they always get the glory and the women."

There is also a sadomasochistic thread running through underground fight clubs, said Michael Kimmel, a sociology professor at Stony Brook University in New York.

"Real-life fight clubs are the male version of the girls who cut themselves," he said. "All day long these guys think they're the captains of the universe, technical wizards. They're brilliant but empty.

"They want to feel differently. They want to get hit, they want to feel something real."

Five-year fight club veteran Dinesh Prasad, 32, a heavily tattooed Santa Clara engineer, said he once broke a rib in a match but never complained to his fellow combatants. He also recently skipped his first wedding anniversary to attend a fight rather than drive to Los Angeles, where his wife is finishing law school.

"I came here to get over my fear of fighting, and it's working," he said. "I'm much tougher than I was five years ago. I'm not at the level of these other guys, but if things were to get tough, I can get tough, too."

Originally Posted by GuruOfReason

How about a nice cup of WTF!! For Discussion Purposes Only

The first rule of Silicon Valley fight club is ...

Inspired by film, techies gather for bloody underground beatdowns
By Jordan Robertson
The Associated Press
Updated: 4:14 p.m. CT May 29, 2006

MENLO PARK, Calif. - They may sport love handles and Ivy League degrees, but every two weeks some Silicon Valley techies turn into vicious street brawlers in a real-life, underground fight club.

Kicking, punching and swinging every household object imaginable — from frying pans and tennis rackets to pillowcases stuffed with soda cans — they beat each other mercilessly in a garage in this bedroom community south of San Francisco.

Then, bloodied and bruised, they limp back to their desks in the morning.

"When you get beat down enough, it becomes a very un-macho thing," said Shiyin Siou, 34, a Santa Clara software engineer and three-year veteran of the clandestine fights. "But I don't need this to prove I'm macho — I'm macho enough as it is."

Inspired by the 1999 film "Fight Club," starring Brad Pitt and Ed Norton, underground bare-knuckle brawling clubs have sprung up across the country as a way for desk jockeys and disgruntled youths to vent their frustrations and prove themselves.

"This is as close as you can get to a real fight, even though I've never been in one," the soft-spoken Siou said.

Despite his reserved demeanor, he daydreams about inflicting pain on an attacker. "I have fantasies about it," he said.

In recent months, police in New Jersey and Pennsylvania have broken up fight clubs involving teens and preteens who posted videos of their bloody battles online.

Earlier this month in Arlington, Texas, a high school student who didn't want to participate was beaten so badly that he suffered a brain hemorrhage and broken vertebrae. Six teenagers were arrested after DVDs of the fight appeared for sale online.

Adult groups are more likely to fly under the radar of authorities.

Menlo Park police hadn't heard about the local club and said they wouldn't be likely to take action because the fights are on private property between consenting adults. That could change if someone complains or is sent to a hospital, police said.

'You get to be a superhero for a night'
Gints Klimanis, a 37-year-old software engineer and martial arts instructor, started the invitation-only "Gentlemen's Fight Club" in Menlo Park in 2000 after his no-holds-barred sessions with a training partner grew to more than a dozen people. Most participants are men working in the high-tech industry.

"You get to be a superhero for a night," Klimanis said. "We have to go to work every day. We're constantly told to buy things we don't need, and just for a couple hours we have the freedom to do what we want to do."

One man tends to another's cut after a fightThe only protective equipment used is fencing and hockey masks. Several fighters have suffered broken noses, ribs and fingers.

Men involved in fight clubs often carry bottled-up violent impulses learned in childhood from video games, cartoons and movies, said Michael Messner, a University of Southern California sociology and gender studies professor.

"Boys have these warrior fantasies picked up from popular culture, and schools sort of force that out of them," he said. In these fantasies, "The good guys always resort to violence, and they always get the glory and the women."

There is also a sadomasochistic thread running through underground fight clubs, said Michael Kimmel, a sociology professor at Stony Brook University in New York.

"Real-life fight clubs are the male version of the girls who cut themselves," he said. "All day long these guys think they're the captains of the universe, technical wizards. They're brilliant but empty.

"They want to feel differently. They want to get hit, they want to feel something real."

Five-year fight club veteran Dinesh Prasad, 32, a heavily tattooed Santa Clara engineer, said he once broke a rib in a match but never complained to his fellow combatants. He also recently skipped his first wedding anniversary to attend a fight rather than drive to Los Angeles, where his wife is finishing law school.

"I came here to get over my fear of fighting, and it's working," he said. "I'm much tougher than I was five years ago. I'm not at the level of these other guys, but if things were to get tough, I can get tough, too."

sounds like USENET.

What happens is that xers do this stuff under the radar, then the millenials come along and co-opt our not-infrequently mindless and self-destructive (but nevertheless somehow gratifying pastimes), end up maming or killing themselves, and the whole thing gets made illegal.

First it was Raves, which we enjoyed mostly without bother for years. Then the kids enter the scene, swallow obscene quantities of strange substances, die, and suddenly there are not just state but federal laws ruining everything.

Then it was Jackass, which we enjoyed(?) for years before little gaggles of teenyboppers thought it might be fun to run over each with cars and things, and bye bye Jackass.

I find the idea of people gathering in basements to beat the crap out of each other (apparently not for money, which is generally a good reason to do anything) kind of lame, but, please millenials - for everyone's sake - don't try this at home.

(PS It's not improbable that xers are killing themselves while doing this stuff too but - you know - no one cares so it makes it all okay.)

Interesting shifts in the wind:


PEGGY NOONAN

Third Time
America may be ready for a new political party.

Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

Something's happening. I have a feeling we're at some new beginning, that a big breakup's coming, and that though it isn't and will not be immediately apparent, we'll someday look back on this era as the time when a shift began.

All my adult life, people have been saying that the two-party system is ending, that the Democrats' and Republicans' control of political power in America is winding down. According to the traditional critique, the two parties no longer offer the people the choice they want and deserve. Sometimes it's said they are too much alike--Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Sometimes it's said they're too polarizing--too red and too blue for a nation in which many see things through purple glasses.

In 1992 Ross Perot looked like the breakthrough, the man who would make third parties a reality. He destabilized the Republicans and then destabilized himself. By the end of his campaign he seemed to be the crazy old aunt in the attic.

The Perot experience seemed to put an end to third-party fever. But I think it's coming back, I think it's going to grow, and I think the force behind it is unique in our history.
This week there was a small boomlet of talk about a new internet entity called Unity '08--a small collection of party veterans including moderate Democrats (former Carter aide Hamilton Jordan) and liberal-leaning Republicans (former Ford hand Doug Bailey) trying to join together with college students and broaden the options in the 2008 election. In terms of composition, Unity seems like the Concord Coalition, the bipartisan group (Warren Rudman, Bob Kerrey) that warns against high spending and deficits.
Unity seems to me to have America's growing desire for more political options right. But I think they've got the description of the problem wrong.

Their idea is that the two parties are too polarized to govern well. It is certainly true that the level of partisanship in Washington seems high. (Such things, admittedly, ebb, flow and are hard to judge. We look back at the post-World War II years and see a political climate of relative amity and moderation. But Alger Hiss and Dick Nixon didn't see it that way.) Nancy Pelosi seems to be pretty much in favor of anything that hurts Republicans, and Ken Mehlman is in favor of anything that works against Democrats. They both want their teams to win. Part of winning is making sure the other guy loses, and part of the fun of politics, of any contest, of life, can be the dance in the end zone.

But the dance has gotten dark.

Partisanship is fine when it's an expression of the high animal spirits produced by real political contention based on true political belief. But the current partisanship seems sour, not joyous. The partisanship has gotten deeper as less separates the governing parties in Washington. It is like what has been said of academic infighting: that it's so vicious because the stakes are so low.





The problem is not that the two parties are polarized. In many ways they're closer than ever. The problem is that the parties in Washington, and the people on the ground in America, are polarized. There is an increasing and profound distance between the rulers of both parties and the people--between the elites and the grunts, between those in power and those who put them there.
On the ground in America, people worry terribly--really, there are people who actually worry about it every day--about endless, weird, gushing government spending. But in Washington, those in power--Republicans and Democrats--stand arm in arm as they spend and spend. (Part of the reason is that they think they can buy off your unhappiness one way or another. After all, it's worked in the past. A hunch: It's not going to work forever or much longer. They've really run that trick into the ground.)

On the ground in America, regular people worry about the changes wrought by the biggest wave of immigration in our history, much of it illegal and therefore wholly connected to the needs of the immigrant and wholly unconnected to the agreed-upon needs of our nation. Americans worry about the myriad implications of the collapse of the American border. But Washington doesn't. Democrat Ted Kennedy and Republican George W. Bush see things pretty much eye to eye. They are going to educate the American people out of their low concerns.

There is a widespread sense in America--a conviction, actually--that we are not safe in the age of terror. That the port, the local power plant, even the local school, are not protected. Is Washington worried about this? Not so you'd notice. They're only worried about seeming unconcerned.

More to the point, people see the Republicans as incapable of managing the monster they've helped create--this big Homeland Security/Intelligence apparatus that is like some huge buffed guy at the gym who looks strong but can't even put on his T-shirt without help because he's so muscle-bound. As for the Democrats, who co-created Homeland Security, no one--no one--thinks they would be more managerially competent. Nor does anyone expect the Democrats to be more visionary as to what needs to be done. The best they can hope is the Democrats competently serve their interest groups and let the benefits trickle down.





Right now the Republicans and Democrats in Washington seem, from the outside, to be an elite colluding against the voter. They're in agreement: immigration should not be controlled but increased, spending will increase, etc.
Are there some dramatic differences? Yes. But both parties act as if they see them not as important questions (gay marriage, for instance) but as wedge issues. Which is, actually, abusive of people on both sides of the question. If it's a serious issue, face it. Don't play with it.

I don't see any potential party, or potential candidate, on the scene right now who can harness the disaffection of growing portions of the electorate. But a new group or entity that could define the problem correctly--that sees the big divide not as something between the parties but between America's ruling elite and its people--would be making long strides in putting third party ideas in play in America again.

Ms. Noonan is a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal and author of "John Paul the Great: Remembering a Spiritual Father," (Penguin, 2005), which you can order from the OpinionJournal bookstore. Her column appears Thursdays.

Originally Posted by Shopping Center at [i

Undernews[/i]]Brilliant! How else can we possibly solve the two-party monopoly in US politics? Faced with the fake choice between the corporate-owned right-wing Democrats and the corporate-owned right-wing Republicans, we need to find the CENTER: a corporate-owned right-wing centrist party. The usefulness of such an experiment should not be underestimated: just imagine, more business as usual, but NEITHER the corrupt Democrats or corrupt Republicans take the blame. And when the experiment is over, we can enshrine the two-party system with a Constitutional Amendment banning 3rd parties. Brilliant!

Upon the founding of another Progressive Party, Unity 08[/i]


Unity 08

Originally Posted by A middling sort of Progressive at U08

We’re a movement to take our country back from polarizing politics. In 2008, we’ll select and elect a Unity Ticket to the White House— one Democrat, one Republican, in whatever order, or independents committed to a Unity team.

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Thursday night, I went to a local "watering hole" for the first time in about three months. The change is astounding. People are starting to collect older currency in the belief that old coins with a higher content of silver are going to be worth more in the future. People actually traded beers for coins. Someone told me that the reason the Fed deesn't publish M3 anymore is because they plan to flood America with worthless money over the next few years. I'm not saying that we've flipped into the 4t, but I saw people whom I hadn't seen in months and they are changing in ways that I wouldn't have expected. Nobody was talking about sports at the bar. War and the economy were the topics of conversations. I'm still processing my thoughts about these unexpected changes that I've seen. :?

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Thursday night, I went to a local "watering hole" for the first time in about three months. The change is astounding. People are starting to collect older currency in the belief that old coins with a higher content of silver are going to be worth more in the future. People actually traded beers for coins. Someone told me that the reason the Fed deesn't publish M3 anymore is because they plan to flood America with worthless money over the next few years.

Inflation 1923–24: a woman feeds her tiled stove with money.

. . . a Weimar Republic in the making. . . How low will the dollar go . . . .?

It's about time Americans learned - THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND! (nor is it any more "federal" than FedEx)

As it happens, the rave rampage killer was a right-wing freak:

Originally Posted by Kyle Huff

"I hope that you will find this letter after the fact. Don't let the police or FBI keep you from haveing it, this is my last wish for you to see this. Don't Kill yourself moron. That's the last thing I would want to happen. As long as your alive so is part of me, ya know. I hate leaving you by yourself, but this is something I feel I have to do. My life would always feel in complete otherwise. I can't let them get away with what theyre doing, Kids like me and you are seriously dying over this shit. I hate this world of sex that they are striving to make. This is a revolution brother, The most important thing to happen since man began, to let it die out would be a crime. I will never be able to "cum" with them, I will always see it as hell. The things they say "and do" the're rapeing us are just to disturbing to me to just ignore and try to live my life with, I know this is a short letter and might sound stupid but It would take a book to properly explain this to you. I don't have the time for that, or the will. The basic jist of it is that they're fucking next to us when were really high to make us freak out. And trying to stop the heart by making is palpatate. And they are doing it its just a question of if were willing to be OK with it, And obviously im not. Maybe someday you'll be willing to help me kill this hippie shit. I know that its going to get worse now, but that's part of the ... Now Kids Now!!! Bye Kane, I Love you.

It's like Easy Rider.

Isn't Attorney General Jerry Brown just inherently a 3t thing?

The lions are eating the Christians again. That's gotta be a fourthturning indicator:

Lion Kills Man Who Climbs In Cage, Invokes God

Originally Posted by Linus

Isn't Attorney General Jerry Brown just inherently a 3t thing?

To me, electing former governor Moonbeam is as 2T as it gets. He has that weird combination of competence, charisma and flakiness that only seems to work in California.

Why haven't we done a better job at taking our country back from extreme corporate ownership? When will the "ordinary citizens" start fighting back. For more on this topic, may I suggest reading the book Hostile Takeover by David Sirota.

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

Why haven't we done a better job at taking our country back from extreme corporate ownership? When will the "ordinary citizens" start fighting back. For more on this topic, may I suggest reading the book Hostile Takeover by David Sirota.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man is another good one.

Originally Posted by Lorin

The lions are eating the Christians again. That's gotta be a fourthturning indicator:

Lion Kills Man Who Climbs In Cage, Invokes God

Oops! I thought it was the lion who was invoking God.

Originally Posted by scott 63

Originally Posted by Lorin

The lions are eating the Christians again. That's gotta be a fourthturning indicator:

Lion Kills Man Who Climbs In Cage, Invokes God

Oops! I thought it was the lion who was invoking God.

If you are familiar with the Narnia series, the Lion is a stand in figure for God. This was just a a reverse sacrament of communion, with God eating a little flesh, drinking a little blood. It's a classic example of the Golden Rule, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Or, from a secular perspective, it could be viewed as evolution in action. This guy should be nominated for a Darwin Award.

Feels more 3T to me, though personally I'd rather sit on a flagpole.

Originally Posted by scott 63

Originally Posted by Lorin

The lions are eating the Christians again. That's gotta be a fourthturning indicator:

Lion Kills Man Who Climbs In Cage, Invokes God

Oops! I thought it was the lion who was invoking God.

The originator of the forward I just received needs to add that one to the list:

1. Include Your Children When Baking Cookies
2. Something Went Wrong in Jet Crash, Experts Say
3. Police Begin Campaign to Run Down Jaywalkers
4. Drunks Get Nine Months in Violin Case
5. Iraqi Head Seeks Arms
6. Prostitutes Appeal to Pope
7. Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over
8. British Left Waffles on Falkland Islands
9. Teacher Strikes Idle Kids
10. Clinton Wins Budget; More Lies Ahead

Originally Posted by scott 63

Originally Posted by Lorin

The lions are eating the Christians again. That's gotta be a fourthturning indicator:

Lion Kills Man Who Climbs In Cage, Invokes God

Oops! I thought it was the lion who was invoking God.

Of course! Translated, he was saying "God os great, God is good, and we thank God for this food...."

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Originally Posted by scott 63

Originally Posted by Lorin

The lions are eating the Christians again. That's gotta be a fourthturning indicator:

Lion Kills Man Who Climbs In Cage, Invokes God

Oops! I thought it was the lion who was invoking God.

Of course! Translated, he was saying "God os great, God is good, and we thank God for this food...."

Or alternately...

"Rub-a-dub-dub... thanks for the grub... YAAAAYYYYY, GOD!!!" :lol: