Originally Posted by cbailey

Your local Sam's Club is a death trap.

Here it's called Costco, and I don't use it. Luckily, I can afford Whole Foods and Trader Joe's for much of my food supply. But it ain't cheap. Too bad we got to pay an arm and a leg in this country for proper food.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Here it's called Costco, and I don't use it. Luckily, I can afford Whole Foods and Trader Joe's for much of my food supply. But it ain't cheap. Too bad we got to pay an arm and a leg in this country for proper food.

Sam's Club prices are hard to beat. We do shop there. Just found the local Trader Joe's, because of a neighbor.

Seriously though, one of the things that has shocked me about moving to the coasts from the red states is how elitist it is out here. For a midwesterner, the inequality in health care, food, quality of life, everything is downright troubling. Especially since the 'blues' position themselves somehow as better more civilized humans than the 'reds' I am befuddled by the hippies who shop at Trader Joe's but drive right through the ghetto where murders are higher than one per night to do so. Higher taxes for similar roads, shaky welfare, and shaky civic services? Seriously, I don't understand it - how are they better than the plebes in indiana?

But our food system is a little scary when you realize that farmers in Iowa buy the same cheap crap at Sam's Club as I do, and are often deeply unhealthy. Seriously, if you can't get good food and be healthy in Iowa or Indiana, then something's a little off-kilter.

Originally Posted by antichrist

Seriously though, one of the things that has shocked me about moving to the coasts from the red states is how elitist it is out here. For a midwesterner, the inequality in health care, food, quality of life, everything is downright troubling. Especially since the 'blues' position themselves somehow as better more civilized humans than the 'reds' I am befuddled by the hippies who shop at Trader Joe's but drive right through the ghetto where murders are higher than one per night to do so. Higher taxes for similar roads, shaky welfare, and shaky civic services? Seriously, I don't understand it - how are they better than the plebes in indiana?

Where did you move to again? I can't recall.

Costco is considered higher on the food chain in the Intermountain area also. The Four Corners region hasn't quite reached that level of affluence yet. The Navajo Nation has their own Bashams, and those folks know nothing of elitism when it comes to food (fry bread and mutton the exception). I also am befuddled by the elitist food attitudes of the upper crust. I think we're all being sold this crap in some way or another regardless of class. Divided we fail.

Those upper middle class folks who have decided to live in the smaller towns that have now become second-home meccas are usually shocked by the lack of shopping facilities. They yearn for Trader Joe's, or Whole Foods, but will fight to the death when a Walmart thinks about locating in the community.

But really, any processed food has got to be full of crap whether it be from china, or the USA. I just try to garden alot.

Peter Kovacs, the author of the above piece was formally the CEO of NutraSweet, so I would think he would be part of Zarathustra's transnational economic regime, wouldn't you? Go figure.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Par for the course. The transnational economic regime being developed would turn the whole world into a giant third world nation. The first world middle class is having it's very economic support taken away so that a transnational elite can live high on the hog as elites always have in third world countries. If the masses are provided inferior, possibily even poisoned, food, who cares? It's only a problem when Mr. & Mrs. Overclass can't get a clean bill of health on their special, superexpensive, organic groceries, superbaby food, and the like. Then it is unacceptable.

I am sick and tired of this transnational, "neoliberal" contingent that doesn't know, or often care, that they are destroying, yes literally destroying, America's future. Poisoned food is but one symptom of a much, much larger malady.

Man, that's good. I wish I had written it.

Originally Posted by antichrist

...

But our food system is a little scary when you realize that farmers in Iowa buy the same cheap crap at Sam's Club as I do, and are often deeply unhealthy. Seriously, if you can't get good food and be healthy in Iowa or Indiana, then something's a little off-kilter.

I would wish that the Commercial Republic's consumers would have as much media coverage of the 2007 Farm Bill as they do of the Noh Play being staged as the Legislative and Executive fund our Eurasian Reform Measures. It will be of greater import than the drama now unfolding on the Iraki Not-War.

That "cheap crap" is cheap as it is subsidized by the taxpayer. It is crap as it often made from the by products of other industrial processes of raw material such as "whey proteins" that flow from the Dairy Compacts and the "corn sweetener" that comes with Ethanolization and Progressive Payments for maize growers. Look at the ingredients of some of the more popular "snack foods" and then look at the lower cost Feline-American Foodstuffs and Canine-American Comestibles. We aren't feeding dog-food to just your impoverished grandmother anymore.

During the "Farm Crisis" of the early Unravelling, one heard of farmers going hungry as their food shelves ran out at the end of the month and they had neither their own money or their neighbors' charities to sate their needs. They had lost the will and/or the ability to feed themselves even as they "fed the world".

Of late I've been shopping at the stores with bad service so I can call or write to corporate when I get back home and get myself a ten dollar coupon for the next time.

Originally Posted by Linus

Of late I've been shopping at the stores with bad service so I can call or write to corporate when I get back home and get myself a ten dollar coupon for the next time.

Yeah man we used to get free pizzas that way in college. The savings were contributed to the all important beer and vittles* fund.


*Well, some of the "vittles" included green leafy produce sometimes used to produce rope. Although we never added value by manufacture personally.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Where did you move to again? I can't recall.

The Northeast/Midatlantic, which probably explains everything.

I like Virgil's cat food. I worked in a poultry processing facility in flyover country many years ago, and there was a yellow trash can into which went everything that got dropped on the floor. Cat food. Also too some of the ground and seperated goo that was left over. Looked like light pink soft serve ice cream by the time they were done. Not chickens. Mmm tasty gold n plump.

Originally Posted by antichrist

Seriously though, one of the things that has shocked me about moving to the coasts from the red states is how elitist it is out here. For a midwesterner, the inequality in health care, food, quality of life, everything is downright troubling. Especially since the 'blues' position themselves somehow as better more civilized humans than the 'reds' I am befuddled by the hippies who shop at Trader Joe's but drive right through the ghetto where murders are higher than one per night to do so. Higher taxes for similar roads, shaky welfare, and shaky civic services? Seriously, I don't understand it - how are they better than the plebes in indiana?

This is why many people in the heartland tend to despise the "Blue" coasts. The "Liberal Elitist" meme didn't just pop out of the mind of a Republican propagandist, it has a ring of truth to it that the Repubs capitalized on. One of the things that has been hurting the Democratic Party's image are the snobbish, elitist attitudes of the upper-middle class types that live in the old urban cores.

I'm determined to buy more locally-grown produce this year.

Originally Posted by Odin

This is why many people in the heartland tend to despise the "Blue" coasts. The "Liberal Elitist" meme didn't just pop out of the mind of a Republican propagandist, it has a ring of truth to it that the Repubs capitalized on. One of the things that has been hurting the Democratic Party's image are the snobbish, elitist attitudes of the upper-middle class types that live in the old urban cores.

Sounds a little like my parents, especially my father.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Yeah man we used to get free pizzas that way in college. The savings were contributed to the all important beer and vittles* fund.


*Well, some of the "vittles" included green leafy produce sometimes used to produce rope. Although we never added value by manufacture personally.

By the time I'm old I figure I'll have saved about 578 bucks which I'm guessing will be just enough to buy myself a six pack before I walk into the desert.

Originally Posted by antichrist

TSeriously though, one of the things that has shocked me about moving to the coasts from the red states is how elitist it is out here. For a midwesterner, the inequality in health care, food, quality of life, everything is downright troubling. Especially since the 'blues' position themselves somehow as better more civilized humans than the 'reds' I am befuddled by the hippies who shop at Trader Joe's but drive right through the ghetto where murders are higher than one per night to do so. Higher taxes for similar roads, shaky welfare, and shaky civic services? Seriously, I don't understand it - how are they better than the plebes in indiana?

Originally Posted by Odin

This is why many people in the heartland tend to despise the "Blue" coasts. The "Liberal Elitist" meme didn't just pop out of the mind of a Republican propagandist, it has a ring of truth to it that the Repubs capitalized on. One of the things that has been hurting the Democratic Party's image are the snobbish, elitist attitudes of the upper-middle class types that live in the old urban cores.

It used to be called "Limousine liberalism" when the GI's and Silents dominated. Now the Boomer version could be called "Lexus Liberalism" I suppose, and it's rampant in Silicon Valley, with a place called Palo Alto being ground zero of the phenomenon. Though there "Mercedes Liberal" would be much more accurate, if less poetic.

Even now, while I am no longer a "Conservative", I strongly recognize the type and often find them annoying.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Yep. The freedom to be declared an "enemy combatant". The President has officially reserved the right to call you that if he wants to. It follows that you have the right to not have the right of habeas corpus, which again, the President says he can withhold from you. Finally, you have the right to be warrantlessly wiretapped and perhaps be exposed to other warrantless activities in the name of "Unitary Executive" theory.

In short, you have the right to disappear and never be heard from again. Congratulations. You have the Right to be Black Bagged.

Dude, your kind of libertarian would have LOVED 1970's Argentina.

Whatever. Hey, Sean look behind you! Oops, sorry Sean, it was just a big old shadow.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

Whatever.

Very erudite response. Impressive.

Originally Posted by K-I-A 67

Hey, Sean look behind you! Oops, sorry Sean, it was just a big old shadow.

And comedic too! Oh you're so wonderful. Let us know when you're ready to give another lecture on "libertarianism" so I can laugh some more.

I have never seen or heard of Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, but there is plenty of wholesome food available locally, and I am soon to plant our own vegetable garden. I have heard of Costco (I assume it's something like Wal-Mart) but have never seen one. Regarding Brian Beecher's campaign against Circuit City on another thread, I would sign the petition but it would be disingenuous of me to do so because, while I have frequently seen their commercials on TV channels such as WGN, I have never seen one of their stores and their web page store locator tells me there are no Circuit City stores within 100 miles of where I live. We do BestBuy here.

Pax,

Dave Krein '42

Originally Posted by David Krein

I have never seen or heard of Trader Joe's or Whole Foods, but there is plenty of wholesome food available locally, and I am soon to plant our own vegetable garden. I have heard of Costco (I assume it's something like Wal-Mart) but have never seen one. Regarding Brian Beecher's campaign against Circuit City on another thread, I would sign the petition but it would be disingenuous of me to do so because, while I have frequently seen their commercials on TV channels such as WGN, I have never seen one of their stores and their web page store locator tells me there are no Circuit City stores within 100 miles of where I live. We do BestBuy here.

My goodness. I think I'm suffering from culture shock.

Just FYI, David, no, Costco is nothing like Wal-Mart. It's a membership wholesale discounter that sells high-quality name brand merchandise at reduced prices. The downsides to this are that 1) you have to pay an annual fee to be a member, making it worth it only if you shop there quite a lot, and 2) some items, especially food, are available only in large quantities, so that buying anything perishable is iffy when you live alone.

Whole Foods is a high-quality supermarket chain specializing in organic produce, organic meat, and high-quality stuff in general. Trader Joes is somewhat similar except it has more packaging and a different selection, and generally isn't as big. WF is alleged to be expensive; in my experience it certainly is if you buy a lot of processed and pre-packaged food, but if you shop for bulk grains, fresh vegetables and fruits, and other unprocessed stuff it can actually be cheaper than Safeway.

There are also no Safeways anywhere around here. But I checked, and there is a Costco in Des Moines, about 150 miles from here, so Iowa must not be totally bereft of high commercial culture.

Pax,

Dave Krein '42

Originally Posted by David Krein

commercial culture.
Dave Krein '42

Is commerical ever really cultural?

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Very erudite response. Impressive.

Gee, I figured it applied.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

And comedic too! Oh you're so wonderful. Let us know when you're ready to give another lecture on "libertarianism" so I can laugh some more.

Hahahahahahaha!

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

It is crap as it often made from the by products of other industrial processes of raw material such as "whey proteins" that flow from the Dairy Compacts and the "corn sweetener" that comes with Ethanolization and Progressive Payments for maize growers.

How does high fructose corn syrup have anything to do with ethanol? Cheese making is an industrial process that produces a coagulated milk product. Whey is a high-BOD byproduct. It should simply be discarded?

Originally Posted by Mikebert

How does high fructose corn syrup have anything to do with ethanol?

Originally Posted by DOE

Corn syrup: An expanding market and the high cost of fructose
corn syrup encouraged expansion of wet mill plants that produce
the syrup as a by-product of the ethanol production process.

Two ways to make ethanol byproducts from corn: Ethanol production plants using corn as the feedstock either use a wet or dry mill process.

Wet mill processing plants produce more valuable by-products than
the dry mill process. In addition to the ethanol, wet mill plants produce:

Corn gluten meal (which can be used as a natural herbicide or as
a high protein supplement in animal feeds)
Corn gluten feed (also used as animal feed)
Corn germ meal
Corn oil
Carbon dioxide (CO2 for soft drinks or dried ice) and
High fructose corn syrups.

Wet mill plants also cost substantially more to build and have higher operating costs than dry mill processing plants, and hence are usually much bigger than dry mill plants in order to achieve economies of scale.

Ethanol for Urchins

The Three Pillars of Wisdom: Big Corn, Big Sugar, Big Government

Originally Posted by Mikebert

Cheese making is an industrial process that produces a coagulated milk product. Whey is a high-BOD byproduct. It should simply be discarded?

It Denmark, whey is fed to Porcine-Danes and they have an "epidemic" of bacons. In Our Commercial Republic, it is fed to Homo-Americans and we have an "epidemic" of obesities.

Originally Posted by Mikebert

How does high fructose corn syrup have anything to do with ethanol? Cheese making is an industrial process that produces a coagulated milk product. Whey is a high-BOD byproduct. It should simply be discarded?

They are both made of corn. And - corn is heavily subsidized here in the U.S.
The demand for ethanol is sending the price of corn tortillas - a staple food across the border - through the roof. If we or the Mexican government says :Let them eat flour tortillas" they will get what Marie Antoinette got.

So -why ethanol? The pull is the incesant demand to grow! grow! grow! Find more uses for our product so we can grow! The push is the "end dependence on foreign oil" lobby, which needs a semester tracing every factor and cost that goes into producing ethanol. (And a rectification of names by which people stop talking about "producing" oil when they're certainly not MAKING any!).

Whey? No idea how it should be used and I have no objection to seeing it in food, but once again we get the subsidies and the push-to-grow.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Try this one ...

BWA HA HA HA HA!

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