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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 455







Post#11351 at 06-09-2007 09:31 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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A post from DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x1068645

Paris Hilton...A tipping point for the rich?

Ah. It's finally here. After almost three decades of suffering under the Raygunomics scheme called "trickle-down, we have finally reached a tipping point. Americans HATE the rich and they don't care you knows it anymore.

The cat is out of the bag. The toothpaste is out of the tube and you can't put it back in. Normally mild manner people are seething with anger. Paris the Heiress got out of jail!

Do you have any idea how many phone calls the DA must have got to make him drag her back to court. It's unheard of.

In defense of Paris, I have to say that doing 5 days for what she is charged with is pretty standard but the public doesn't seem to care. They want her back in jail to suffer as much as possible. It seems the public is being irrational but not if you've been watching the silent rage building to-wards the rich and their spoiled brat children for the last five years. It's been coming.

George W Bush should take note. He's suffering from the same syndrome. A SPOILED BRAT WHO INHERITED THE WHITEHOUSE! Bush hatred and Paris hatred have a lot in common. The Republicans should take note. Another tax cut for the rich just may get you lynched. The Democrats should take note. If this immigration bill passes you may need Dragonskin body armor! Pass another trade deal at your own risk! There is a sea change going on. America is fast sinking into an all out class war. A gigantic tidal wave of hatred. French revolution anyone?

You see Americans are in a REALLY BAD MOOD! Especially the middle class. Lou Dobbs has been doing this as a theme on his show for years. He was ahead of the media pack in seeing this trend. The American middle class is getting whipped like a dog. They're mad as Hell. Out-sourcing, in-sourcing, health-care, interest rates rising, wages going down, college tuition going up, terra, Iraq, open borders, globalization, CEO thieves, poisoned pet food from China and now they are losing money in the only secure investment they ever had. Their house. ACK!!

Mark this day on the calendar because it will go down in history as the day a little shallow rich girl started the tidal wave of anger that will change the way we do business for a long time. Americans are openly hating the rich today and it FEELS SO GOOD!

Thank you Paris!
Turning sign?
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#11352 at 06-09-2007 12:41 PM by Millennial_90' [at joined Jan 2007 #posts 253]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I don't think Americans necessarily hate the rich, but for whatever reason, we are certainly growing ever more distrustful.

But, I agree, Paris-gate is a legitimate indicator that we are in the 4T. During the 3T, the public responded to these events with ethusiasm and fanfare. If Paris went under house-arrest during the 90s, then there would still be harsh criticism directed against the justice system, but little would have been done to forcefully impose the Judge's sentence. However, this incident proves that the public is becoming less and less receptive to celebrity misconduct - behavior that may have seemed tolerable for the headlines of a 3T. Had the citizens and activists of LA not responded as vehemently as they did, then Paris would have simply been just another case of a celebrity receiving preferential treatment.

Of course, Paris-gate is only part of a whole string of celebrity scandals, that, together, constitute a general backlash against the celebrity misconduct. The opening salvo was Janet Jackon's nipple-gate (leading to a media crack down by censorship comitees) followed by Michael Jackson's trial (put a final end to his career), Mel Gibson's DUI incident (which caused NBC to cancel a TV series he was supposed to produce), Tom Cruise's erratic bevahior (leading to his breakup with Paramount Pictures), Lindsay Lohan drunken escapades (causing Universal Pictures to release a public letter bashing her for her misconduct), Isiah Washington's homphobic remarks (causing him to be dropped from Grey's Anatomy), and Britney Spear's emotional breakdown and fallout with K-Fed (causing her popularity among fans to plummet)
Last edited by Millennial_90'; 06-09-2007 at 12:50 PM.







Post#11353 at 06-09-2007 12:47 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Paris Hilton as the 4T Catalyst??? THAT'S funny!!!

Forgive me for not being caught-up, but what exactly did PH do, anyway?
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 06-09-2007 at 12:51 PM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#11354 at 06-09-2007 02:09 PM by Bob Butler 54 [at Cove Hold, Carver, MA joined Jul 2001 #posts 6,431]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Paris Hilton as the 4T Catalyst??? THAT'S funny!!!

Forgive me for not being caught-up, but what exactly did PH do, anyway?
Drunk driving, then later driving with a suspended license, I believe.

I don't know that Paris ought to be considered THE Catalyst, or THE marker indicating the 3T / 4T cusp is past, but she deserves a post or three on a thread like this.

Nicole Ritchie, Paris's sidekick, was on Letterman a few nights ago. It seems she might also get a similar conviction with jail time. Lindsay Lohan, another partying young rich Hollywooder, is also in legal trouble. Thus, it is hard to say Paris is an isolated case.







Post#11355 at 06-09-2007 02:59 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54 View Post
Drunk driving, then later driving with a suspended license, I believe.

I don't know that Paris ought to be considered THE Catalyst, or THE marker indicating the 3T / 4T cusp is past, but she deserves a post or three on a thread like this.

Nicole Ritchie, Paris's sidekick, was on Letterman a few nights ago. It seems she might also get a similar conviction with jail time. Lindsay Lohan, another partying young rich Hollywooder, is also in legal trouble. Thus, it is hard to say Paris is an isolated case.
You can add the football star Michael Vick after evidence of involvement in dog fighting -- how low can one go? -- pops up. OK, there was Rae "Bungled Conspiracy to Kill a Pregnant Girlfriend" Carruth.

Old Money used to have the tact to shun the spotlight and show some social responsibility. Maybe it still does, on the whole. When is the last time that you heard of a scandal involving a Rockefeller or a Harriman?

We may be entering a new era in which those who have everything handed on a silver platter are expected to demonstrate that they deserve it. The old fortunes in retailing, banking, and manufacturing ordinarily required the aid of family members in the fast-growth time in which genuine effort was necessary for keeping things from falling apart. It's not quite so these days when the fortunes arise from speculative investment, government contracts, and cracking the whip on scared employees. Not so long ago it was the grandchildren of the founders who frittered away the assets that others had painstakingly accumulated. Now it's the kids.

A 4T has one wholesome effect in pushing conspicuous consumption off the stage. High-priced marques of automobiles such as Duesenberg and Pierce-Arrow vanished not because people could no longer afford them; they disappeared because people dared be seen with them. Conspicuous consumption draws much the same attention during a 4T from taxing authorities as does flashing cash in the presence of potential muggers: the first says "Tax me!" and the second says "Mug me!"

I'm ahead of myself, to be sure. I have my idea of how Paris Hilton would spend her house arrest -- Party Time, and I don't mean with James Carville. It would be one unending drunken debauchery, something that most Americans can never and want never to understand. Most of us expect some contrition.







Post#11356 at 06-09-2007 03:22 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Paris Hilton as the 4T Catalyst??? THAT'S funny!!!
More of a sign of the times then anything.

It's about time the decadent Have-Mores straighten up and pay up.
Last edited by Odin; 06-09-2007 at 03:25 PM.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#11357 at 06-09-2007 06:35 PM by Bob Butler 54 [at Cove Hold, Carver, MA joined Jul 2001 #posts 6,431]
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More Catalysts?

Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Paris Hilton as the 4T Catalyst??? THAT'S funny!!!
Just after my above Paris Hilton post, I visited the local drugs store. On the way out, I passed a display that included two tabloid newspapers. Combined, the headlines reminded me of this thread.

OPRAH DISMISSED!
THE END TIMES ARE BEGINNING!



No... Not really... Just kidding... The celebrity justice thing seems vaguely real, but I'm not really looking for catalysts hiding underneath my bed.

Does anyone else think Paris, Nicole and Lindsay should get together and put together a TV series that combines the basic themes of The Simple Life and Scared Straight?
Last edited by Bob Butler 54; 06-09-2007 at 06:40 PM.







Post#11358 at 06-09-2007 06:59 PM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Reed View Post
Similarly, Hurricane Katrina and her sisters Rita and Wilma only affected a few people, but the response to those disasters was enough to result in the meltdown of the political regime then in place. The meltdown continues today, and the recent midterms were an indicator of it, especially given how swiftly Democrats seized both houses of Congress and many governorships even in red states. And so we could definitely be in Crisis. But going by the nature of media and telecommunications of today, the pressure cooker is more likely to be displayed on the Internet than in the MSM. As a result of this, the social moment is likely to hit most Americans like a tsunami, suddenly, and seemingly without warning.
Agreed! I became convinced several months ago that Katrina was the trigger and that we've been cascading since. And I like your description of how this could be without a whole lot of people noticing it (for now).

I am one who thinks that GDP is somewhat overreported, unemployment somewhat underreported, and CPI very underreported. From what I've read, if we used the same standards for judging CPI as we did as recently as 1992, it would read nearly 10% right now! That is more in line with what I see in the supermarket (yes, I do all of the shopping).

I wouldn't be surprised if the GDP is in reality already starting to contract a little; and wouldn't be surprised if there are a whole lot of effectively unemployed real estate agents, construction contractors and illegal aliens (as a result of the housing bust) not showing up in the data, since they can't go on the unemployment line.

But's it's even more than the economy. The mood out there is just getting so sour. And it's different from what I remember as a kid c.1979-80, last time things were this sour. Then it just seemed like frustration with limits (limits to oil, limits to American power). This seems more like bitter, cynical resignation. To me, anyway.

As they say in my sig line, "foreboding will deepen, and spiritual currents will darken . . ."
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#11359 at 06-09-2007 09:04 PM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
We may be entering a new era in which those who have everything handed on a silver platter are expected to demonstrate that they deserve it.
You mean the Boomers might actually be held accountable for their own existence? That would be a 4T sign.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didn´t replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#11360 at 06-09-2007 10:48 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Postseasonal Sheriff

The uproar over Hiltons' release is in itself far too triivial to be anything more than a sign of the times. As I've said before we're 4t, it's just that many people don't realize it yet. There is no going back, not to widespread tolerance of spiecal treatment style celeberty circuses anyway. So far, we've been lucky enough to avoid anything as catastropic as a stock market crash, but luck can change.
What amazes me is how the L.A. County Sheriff Baca thought that releasing Hilton after a minimal time in jail wouldn't cause an uproar. But then again, he is a silent and elder adaptives seem to be always the last to realize that business as usual has changed.
Last edited by herbal tee; 06-09-2007 at 10:57 PM.







Post#11361 at 06-09-2007 11:36 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
The uproar over Hiltons' release is in itself far too triivial to be anything more than a sign of the times. As I've said before we're 4t, it's just that many people don't realize it yet. There is no going back, not to widespread tolerance of spiecal treatment style celeberty circuses anyway. So far, we've been lucky enough to avoid anything as catastropic as a stock market crash, but luck can change.
What amazes me is how the L.A. County Sheriff Baca thought that releasing Hilton after a minimal time in jail wouldn't cause an uproar. But then again, he is a silent and elder adaptives seem to be always the last to realize that business as usual has changed.
I've been reading the comments of the articles on the blogs, and the vast majority are not friendly at all to Paris Hilton, or even to rich people. In fact, there is a graphic going around the blogs that I find interesting. If the attitude persists against other rich people (particularly if they are seen as corrupting), then we would definitely be in a similar place as the mid 1770s or the early 1930s.

Last edited by Mr. Reed; 06-09-2007 at 11:40 PM.
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Post#11362 at 06-10-2007 06:05 PM by catfishncod [at The People's Republic of Cambridge & Possum Town, MS joined Apr 2005 #posts 984]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Reed View Post
I've been reading the comments of the articles on the blogs, and the vast majority are not friendly at all to Paris Hilton, or even to rich people. In fact, there is a graphic going around the blogs that I find interesting. If the attitude persists against other rich people (particularly if they are seen as corrupting), then we would definitely be in a similar place as the mid 1770s or the early 1930s.
Hilton is catching hell not only because she is not only (a) rich but also (b) patently foolish, (c) patently courting public attention, and (d) highly visible even when not actively courting attention.

Nonetheless, the vitriol does not come from being a celebrity, or even a foolish celebrity -- it is coming from being rich. For twenty-three years now, since Wall Street and "greed is good", the national forum has turned a blind eye to the widening of class differences. No more. The division of profit in society and the conduct of the upper class is becoming a topic of discussion once more -- or, rather, the distractions used by the upper class to prevent such discussions are failing. 'News' stories about "Ooh, look, a foolish celebrity! Look, another one! Hey, here's one doing charity work -- how unusual!" are intended to prevent us from noticing how many celebrities and non-celebrities are not paying their dues to society.

But dropping the foolish Ms. Hilton into the PR equivalent of boiling oil is not going to fix anything. The Waltons, on the other hand...
'81, 30/70 X/Millie, trying to live in both Red and Blue America... "Catfish 'n Cod"







Post#11363 at 06-10-2007 06:12 PM by 1990 [at Savannah, GA joined Sep 2006 #posts 1,450]
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Quote Originally Posted by catfishncod View Post
The Waltons, on the other hand...
Indeed. When the 4T is on, the Hiltons and Waltons of the world will be the ones who catch hell, not the Bill Gateses and Warren Buffets who made sure to throw in plenty of good works.
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Post#11364 at 06-10-2007 07:14 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by 1990 View Post
Indeed. When the 4T is on, the Hiltons and Waltons of the world will be the ones who catch hell, not the Bill Gateses and Warren Buffets who made sure to throw in plenty of good works.
Amen.

I think that Wal*Mart will have to change its ways when, during a deep 4T, people won't be making purchases on impulse as the store thrives upon.







Post#11365 at 06-10-2007 09:06 PM by antichrist [at I'm in the Big City now, boy! joined Sep 2003 #posts 1,655]
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Funny. I don't get that impression at all. I know it is important to dislike The Waltons as the ultimate big box, but their customers like them. Country stars make it a point of shopping there so that they can be down with the peeps. Just because the intelligentsia has traced the rise of Sam to the decline of local retail doesn't mean that Sam's customers are going to line up for retribution. My impression is that Sam's customers see his organization as allowing them to maintain their economic position.







Post#11366 at 06-10-2007 09:11 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Post#11367 at 06-10-2007 09:45 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
Funny. I don't get that impression at all. I know it is important to dislike The Waltons as the ultimate big box, but their customers like them. Country stars make it a point of shopping there so that they can be down with the peeps. Just because the intelligentsia has traced the rise of Sam to the decline of local retail doesn't mean that Sam's customers are going to line up for retribution. My impression is that Sam's customers see his organization as allowing them to maintain their economic position.
Sam Walton, like his successors, respected the anti-intellectualism of American culture. Wal-Mart has never sought to elevate American culture. It has ridden the wave of country music, the paradigm of thought for most white Americans whose idea of a good book is the insipid Chicken Soup stuff from a Wal-Mart rack. OK, Harry Potter is popular enough to hit the book racks. It does, to be sure, recognize that not all Americans or American residents listen to American country music. For Latinos, Mexican country music (look at the CD labels and you will notice that the Mexican music idols dress much like American C/W performers and have visual motifs similar to those of American C/W performers).

C&W performers love Wal-Mart because it is the #1 retailer of C&W music. Any surprise?

Like most college grads I have mixed views of Wal-Mart. It is a more efficient retailer than anyone else, an effective exploiter of economies of scale that no other retailer can exploit. To be sure, some retailers can undercut Wal-Mart by supplying schlock, typically other stores' failures. It's acceptable for objects that one will never buy as intended heirlooms, like electronic goodies. Sure, there's much Kitsch that wise shoppers avoid... but Wal-Mart isn't the only place that supplies it.

It's acceptable for electronic gadgetry, glassware, cheap clothes, food, sporting goods, lawn care stuff, office equipment, magazines, cheap watches (I prefer a genuine Timex to a fake Rolex and couldn't afford a real Rolex) and the like. I wouldn't trust its furniture to avoid becoming an embarrassment within five years, and I get my books and music... elsewhere. I confess to DVDs from Wal-Mart because all but the most elevated are to be found there, if not for long.

Wal-Mart has no pushy salespeople; it relies upon impulse shopping. That's one comfort. But I haven't gotten a music CD or a book from a Wal-Mart for years, and I don't expect to. It's the definitive mass marketer of our time, and







Post#11368 at 06-10-2007 10:46 PM by catfishncod [at The People's Republic of Cambridge & Possum Town, MS joined Apr 2005 #posts 984]
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Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
Funny. I don't get that impression at all. I know it is important to dislike The Waltons as the ultimate big box, but their customers like them.
There's Wal-Mart and then there are the Waltons. Please it be you to note the difference -- and it is a major difference, because unlike Gates and Buffett, the Waltons have extremely little to do any longer with the source of their stupendous wealth. (Collectively, the Walton heirs control more money than Gates and Buffett combined.)

I have problems with Wal-Mart as a company, but I have far more with the Waltons, who are as happy to hoard wealth without a care for those they gain it from, as the decadents who built Newport, RI, did. At least the Waltons are not quite so eager to flaunt their wealth -- at least one new bit of good manners has been implanted this saeculum.

Just because the intelligentsia has traced the rise of Sam to the decline of local retail doesn't mean that Sam's customers are going to line up for retribution. My impression is that Sam's customers see his organization as allowing them to maintain their economic position.
This is the paradox of Wal-Mart. On the one hand, they have massively benefited the lower and lower-middle classes: their aggressive negotiations with suppliers and their immensely efficient supply chain permit many to live well on low incomes. On the other hand, they have in the process contributed massively to the decline of the middle and upper-middle classes, particularly small merchants and manufacturers. This has a secondary effect on small-town America: shops and factories close, and people can buy less at Wal-Mart; but service jobs of the same quality are not provided by Wal-Mart itself, and the manufacturing jobs will like as not be sent to China.

Wal-Mart remains popular, but its popularity has stopped growing and is beginning to decline as businesses continue to fail in the face of their competition. The latest casualties, at least down South, are grocery stores, whose stocks and business are declining. I am only exaggerating slightly when I say that people will soon depend on Wal-Mart for their daily bread: convienence stores and Wal-Mart will soon be the sole providers of processed foodstuffs in some outlying areas.

When you have fight your way through a thousand parked cars just to get a box of Shredded Mini-Wheats... anyone might start wondering what's going on.

The sad part is that none of this is necessary. If Wal-Mart would hire experienced staff and treat them well (instead of hiring minimum-wage or illegal help and treating them like Chinese peasants), and if Wal-Mart created a partnering system to connect their stupendous supply chain with local businesses in return for a cut or other considerations, they would be a massive force in favor of small-town economic growth. It is not at all guaranteed that their profits would decrease by such an action, either. They could be the new railroads, delivering goods for anyone and taking massive profits in the process. The negative effects of Wal-Mart are driven solely by the empire-building impulse: the desire that everything be controlled centrally, and that all benefits flow to the center first and to the periphery only afterwards, if at all. It's a management choice, and one that both the Waltons and their hired help appear perfectly happy with, no matter the effects on anyone not resident in Bentonville, Arkansas.
'81, 30/70 X/Millie, trying to live in both Red and Blue America... "Catfish 'n Cod"







Post#11369 at 06-10-2007 10:56 PM by catfishncod [at The People's Republic of Cambridge & Possum Town, MS joined Apr 2005 #posts 984]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Sam Walton, like his successors, respected the anti-intellectualism of American culture. Wal-Mart has never sought to elevate American culture.
Why should it? That's not its point. Did Woolworth's try to "elevate American culture"? How about Sears, Roebuck & Co.? McDonald's? Home Depot?

I don't give a darn about "intellectualism" in this context. It's not for everyone. A decent shirt for $11 is, and I can get that at Wal-Mart. Ditto a $8 power strip or a $19 DVD of the latest summer blockbuster.

But I can get all that at Target, too, for a similarly decent price, and I don't have to fight through a million cars or have Wal-Mart TV and Big Brother-like banners promoting the eternal glories of "Low Prices ALWAYS". I don't have to journey to the next county just to find Sporting Goods. Wal-Mart can't scale forever. At some point it has to deliver quality, even if only the quality of helping you find what you seek in an efficient manner. And I don't like places that don't know and don't care about keeping their tropical fish alive and eject Humane Society representatives who complain when the manager orders the tanks drained and all the fish thrown in the garbage -- all because the profit margins are too low.
'81, 30/70 X/Millie, trying to live in both Red and Blue America... "Catfish 'n Cod"







Post#11370 at 06-10-2007 11:46 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by catfishncod View Post
Why should it? That's not its point. Did Woolworth's try to "elevate American culture"? How about Sears, Roebuck & Co.? McDonald's? Home Depot?

I don't give a darn about "intellectualism" in this context. It's not for everyone. A decent shirt for $11 is, and I can get that at Wal-Mart. Ditto a $8 power strip or a $19 DVD of the latest summer blockbuster.

But I can get all that at Target, too, for a similarly decent price, and I don't have to fight through a million cars or have Wal-Mart TV and Big Brother-like banners promoting the eternal glories of "Low Prices ALWAYS". I don't have to journey to the next county just to find Sporting Goods. Wal-Mart can't scale forever. At some point it has to deliver quality, even if only the quality of helping you find what you seek in an efficient manner. And I don't like places that don't know and don't care about keeping their tropical fish alive and eject Humane Society representatives who complain when the manager orders the tanks drained and all the fish thrown in the garbage -- all because the profit margins are too low.
Like many I hold my nose when I enter Wal-Mart. That organization is so secretive that one has to be an employee to know what goes on --- and then, if you blab, you are no longer an employee.

Wal-Mart has succeeded in part by reducing service to the bare minimum of a checkout clerk who is instructed to never comment about purchases or someone to inspect the fitting rooms on occasion to see that someone didn't leave a few dresses or slacks behind in the fitting room. Often it is a customer who explains a product to another -- which means that the store ends up with free sales help. That's creepy, once you think about it.

I am convinced that there's more to life than collecting the latest blockbuster movies (I prefer the ones from the time when the scriptwriting was better and explosions and foul language was rarer) or books off the Best Seller list. Country music turns me off. I get my books and music elsewhere, thank you.

Now that you tell me about their tropical fish... I understand why their tropical fish don't look so good. Sure, they can undercut the higher-priced pet stores, but at a cost to the fish. If you want your fish to swim a little longer at your home, then you had better go elsewhere. I don't have tropical fish, so thank you for warning me in case I take up the hobby.

I don't fault Wal-Mart for the debasing of the American mind. It has been debased for a long time -- long before Wal-Mart appeared in about every town of more than 10,000 people.

Wal-Mart has a high profile because of its volume of sales and its ubiquity. It well fits a 3T in which people buy things on impulse to sate their damaged egos, and what most people buy for that purpose is junk. In a 4T people won't have so much disposable income, so they will have to ask themselves whether what they buy is truly good. Maybe Wal-Mart will make the necessary transition; maybe they will need to hire people who know the features of what they sell. But until then I can wonder whether Wal-Mart will end up like such predecessors as W.T. Grant, Ames, BEST, and Service Merchandise and lots of old Supercenters will be partitioned into smaller stores that lease a recently-abandoned building.







Post#11371 at 06-11-2007 10:23 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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06-11-2007, 10:23 AM #11371
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Amen.

I think that Wal*Mart will have to change its ways when, during a deep 4T, people won't be making purchases on impulse as the store thrives upon.
Actually - been there, done that, learned better. Last winter, Albuquerque had a huge snowstorm we were not at all prepared for. It went on for a week and left the roads nearly impassible. I ran out of supplies and made my one single, difficult venture out of the house count for the max. Straight shot up Coal to the turnoff for WallyWorld, purchase everything I needed from milk (overpriced) to cat food, and back, thankful I could do it.

As far as I'm concerned the Great Snow was a micromini 4T rehearsal and very instructive.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#11372 at 06-11-2007 12:19 PM by Brian Beecher [at Downers Grove, IL joined Sep 2001 #posts 2,937]
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06-11-2007, 12:19 PM #11372
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Paris Hilton; Wal-Mart, etc.

I am one who is disturbed by all the attention given to Paris Hilton, as if what she does is affection our lives directly. BTW, tomorrow it will be a baker's dozen years since the murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman. As she was the wife of a famous football star, this trial ended up becoming the biggest circus trial of the entire 20th century, even eclipsing the Scopes Monkey Trial of 1925.

If the O. J. Simpson murder trail were held today, would the reactions to it or the results be any different than they were at the time it happened?

On Wal-Mart, it is fashionable to make them the primary whipping boy for what is happening on Main Street USA. But I have often pointed out that they are not alone in this process. What's interesting is that when outfits such as Woolworth's were in their heyday, there were still plenty of independent retailers who were not as grossly impacted by that chain as many are by Wal-Mart. Then again, I don't think the former was nearly as much an all-purpose center as the latter has become. Chains such as Walgreen's, Blockbuster, Borders, and even Jiffy-Lube are example of much the same mentality, that being to saturate the marketplace thoroughly enough so that people will have few if any choices other than them for books, pharmaceuticals, etc. One more reson to go to and sign my petition to help break this stranglehold at www.petitiononline.com/bb3838. Hope to get enough signatures to send a message to the US Congress.

Back to the original subject, the Paris Hilton incident serves to remind us that no one is above the law, but didn't Watergate prove that more than three decades ago? Will the backlash against the privileged finally help bring an end to the "Robin Hood in Reverse" policies of the past nearly three decades?







Post#11373 at 06-11-2007 12:54 PM by antichrist [at I'm in the Big City now, boy! joined Sep 2003 #posts 1,655]
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06-11-2007, 12:54 PM #11373
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Like many I hold my nose when I enter Wal-Mart.
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Country music turns me off. I get my books and music elsewhere, thank you.
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I don't fault Wal-Mart for the debasing of the American mind. It has been debased for a long time
...

It [Wal Mart] well fits a 3T in which people buy things on impulse to sate their damaged egos, and what most people buy for that purpose is junk.
Like I said, just because the intelligentsia has one opinion of it doesn't mean that its regular customers agree. Especially since they are low-taste, debased, impulsive, and trying to assuage their damaged psyches.

Any wonder why the Reds don't like or trust the intelligentsia?







Post#11374 at 06-11-2007 01:33 PM by Linus [at joined Oct 2005 #posts 1,731]
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06-11-2007, 01:33 PM #11374
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Do people really go to Wal-Mart for impulse shopping?

My sense is people go there for the basics: food, clothes, toothpaste, motor oil.

I buy most of my personal grooming products at my unfriendly neighborhood Kmart. I wonder if this makes me a bad person.
Last edited by Linus; 06-11-2007 at 01:58 PM.
"Jan, cut the crap."

"It's just a donut."







Post#11375 at 06-11-2007 01:57 PM by Linus [at joined Oct 2005 #posts 1,731]
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06-11-2007, 01:57 PM #11375
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So I'm watching the live feed of MSNBC at work.

Do you remember how a few years ago people were complaining there weren't enough abduction-sploitation segments featuring attractive young black women?

It seems the cable news networks (or at least MSNBC) have taken this criticism to heart and are now airing abduction-sploitation segments featuring attractive young black women.

I look forward to the multi-day marathon coverage of some Mexican child that has fallen into a well.

I would have recorded this segment and stuck it somewhere I could link to but the product we're supposed to be selling to do this sort of thing from live feed doesn't seem to work.
Last edited by Linus; 06-11-2007 at 02:05 PM.
"Jan, cut the crap."

"It's just a donut."
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