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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 460







Post#11476 at 07-09-2007 03:41 PM by Bob Butler 54 [at Cove Hold, Carver, MA joined Jul 2001 #posts 6,431]
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Quote Originally Posted by jadams View Post
I think "cascade" is the word, from little things to bigger and bigger things. So many it is hard to remember them all... (Snip...)

I don't know what to expect anymore, but someone once wrote in the forum that Bush was the catalyst and I am beginning to agree.
I'm not quite sure I'll go with 'Bush is the catalyst.' There can be more than one catalyst. You came up with a pretty good list of events. I'll propose that the cascade is like a flight of stairs, with each step being a catalyst. Under that metaphor, Bush isn't the cascade, he is just falling out of control down the cascade, thumping loudly with each new impact, and unfortunately bringing us along for the ride.







Post#11477 at 07-09-2007 03:49 PM by DonRobbie [at joined May 2007 #posts 124]
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Quote Originally Posted by jadams View Post
I think "cascade" is the word, from little things to bigger and bigger things. So many it is hard to remember them all.
Don't forget the dot.com bubble bursting, recession, jobless recovery, and then the housing bubble. Enron, subprime, and Bear Sterns showed that in general regulators were behind the curve. Anthrax and the failed search for the person(s) responsible. "I'm a uniter not a divider" becomes "I am the decider." The Patriot Act, now with Union busting! The "maestro" Greenspan shilling ARMs and the bipartisan Bankruptcy "reform" bill just in time for the housing collapse. Everyone was afraid of Y2K, now that seems quaint.
Xer ('71)
INTP







Post#11478 at 07-10-2007 01:00 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by DonRobbie View Post
Don't forget the dot.com bubble bursting, recession, jobless recovery, and then the housing bubble. Enron, subprime, and Bear Sterns showed that in general regulators were behind the curve. Anthrax and the failed search for the person(s) responsible. "I'm a uniter not a divider" becomes "I am the decider." The Patriot Act, now with Union busting! The "maestro" Greenspan shilling ARMs and the bipartisan Bankruptcy "reform" bill just in time for the housing collapse. Everyone was afraid of Y2K, now that seems quaint.
For what it's worth, even driving around DC nowadays is spookier than it was during the Sniper Era. There's something in the air that's just... not... right.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#11479 at 07-10-2007 09:09 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
For what it's worth, even driving around DC nowadays is spookier than it was during the Sniper Era. There's something in the air that's just... not... right.
Good observation.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#11480 at 07-10-2007 09:28 AM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
For what it's worth, even driving around DC nowadays is spookier than it was during the Sniper Era. There's something in the air that's just... not... right.
In what way, other than appalling traffic?
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#11481 at 07-10-2007 04:38 PM by Neisha '67 [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 2,227]
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Here's a commentary from our local paper that reflects some "turning yearning":

http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary...530.xml&coll=7







Post#11482 at 07-11-2007 01:03 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
In what way, other than appalling traffic?
Can't put my finger on it really... just a feeling. Could be subconscious on my part, knowing that we're probably 4T with no one responsible in charge. Then again, it's likely that feeling is shared by a substantial number of people who work on Capitol Hill... and the bad vibes are picked up by everyone else who comes into contact with them, directly or indirectly.... which in DC is nearly everyone. Sort of a low-level mass hysteria.
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 07-11-2007 at 01:09 AM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#11483 at 07-11-2007 04:27 PM by scott 63 [at Birmingham joined Sep 2001 #posts 697]
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Quote Originally Posted by Neisha '67 View Post
Here's a commentary from our local paper that reflects some "turning yearning":

http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary...530.xml&coll=7
Thanks. It is a pretty clear case and yet I don't get the impression that the writer was T4T aware.
Leave No Child Behind - Teach Evolution.







Post#11484 at 07-11-2007 04:27 PM by scott 63 [at Birmingham joined Sep 2001 #posts 697]
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Quote Originally Posted by Neisha '67 View Post
Here's a commentary from our local paper that reflects some "turning yearning":

http://www.oregonlive.com/commentary...530.xml&coll=7
Do we need a Turnin' Yearnin' Thread?
Leave No Child Behind - Teach Evolution.







Post#11485 at 07-12-2007 12:17 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by scott 63 View Post
Do we need a Turnin' Yearnin' Thread?
Go for it. It would surely be one of the better brand-new threads of late. Unlike those people set up for the most trivial of reasons, that could easily be served by an existing discussion.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#11486 at 07-12-2007 08:15 AM by Skabungus [at West Michigan joined Jun 2007 #posts 1,027]
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Turnin Yearnin`

I'd not be spurnin a turnin yearnin thread! Sounds great! In fact I, and a goodly number of people I know (Xers and Millies mostly) are chompin at the bit for the 4T transistion to full overdrive.

Its a scary prospect, to be wishing, hoping, the crisis will progress, because it will mean hard times for all. However, it feels (to me and mine) as if the breaking of bones will be less painful than the waiting for the hammer to fall on ones hands. Nothing sucks like waiting around watching society chase its tail.

On another note, these forums give good coverage to the potential for future war, global war, oil war and retrograde war pitting US against THEM while providing a never ending number of scenarios for how it might come about in a 4T. What seems to be missing is adaquate discussion of civil war here in America. It is not outside the realm of possibility, and, given the current state of affairs, more plausible than it was in say, 2002.







Post#11487 at 07-12-2007 04:18 PM by DonRobbie [at joined May 2007 #posts 124]
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Bad Moon Rising

Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Can't put my finger on it really... just a feeling. Could be subconscious on my part, knowing that we're probably 4T with no one responsible in charge. Then again, it's likely that feeling is shared by a substantial number of people who work on Capitol Hill... and the bad vibes are picked up by everyone else who comes into contact with them, directly or indirectly.... which in DC is nearly everyone. Sort of a low-level mass hysteria.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/column.../?id=110007460

It is not so hard and can be a pleasure to tell people what you see. It's harder to speak of what you think you see, what you think is going on and can't prove or defend with data or numbers. That can get tricky. It involves hunches. But here goes.

I think there is an unspoken subtext in our national political culture right now. In fact I think it's a subtext to our society. I think that a lot of people are carrying around in their heads, unarticulated and even in some cases unnoticed, a sense that the wheels are coming off the trolley and the trolley off the tracks. That in some deep and fundamental way things have broken down and can't be fixed, or won't be fixed any time soon. That our pollsters are preoccupied with "right track" and "wrong track" but missing the number of people who think the answer to "How are things going in America?" is "Off the tracks and hurtling forward, toward an unknown destination."

I'm not talking about "Plamegate." As I write no indictments have come up. I'm not talking about "Miers." I mean . . . the whole ball of wax. Everything. Cloning, nuts with nukes, epidemics; the growing knowledge that there's no such thing as homeland security; the fact that we're leaving our kids with a bill no one can pay. A sense of unreality in our courts so deep that they think they can seize grandma's house to build a strip mall; our media institutions imploding--the spectacle of a great American newspaper, the New York Times, hurtling off its own tracks, as did CBS. The fear of parents that their children will wind up disturbed, and their souls actually imperiled, by the popular culture in which we are raising them. Senators who seem owned by someone, actually owned, by an interest group or a financial entity. Great churches that have lost all sense of mission, and all authority. Do you have confidence in the CIA? The FBI? I didn't think so.

But this recounting doesn't quite get me to what I mean. I mean I believe there's a general and amorphous sense that things are broken and tough history is coming.
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/commen...ential-po.html
But don't think its just the President: As Gallup reports in this June 11-14, 2007, survey, 24% of Americans approve and 71% disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job. Congressional approval is down five points since last month and more than 10 points from the higher support levels in January and February following the Democratic takeover.

The current 24% rating is similar to the poor ratings Congress received last year, with Americans essentially voting to take control of Congress away from the Republicans in November...

It is unusual for congressional job approval ratings to be at or below 24%.

Note that Congress has been rated this negatively only a few times in the four decades Gallup has measured this item -- in 1979, during the energy crisis; at several points during the "term limits era" of 1990 to 1994; and last year. The above listed years were periods of tough economic conditions.
Xer ('71)
INTP







Post#11488 at 07-13-2007 08:54 AM by Skabungus [at West Michigan joined Jun 2007 #posts 1,027]
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...the other shoe

Yes, the atmosphere is as if we're aware things are going quietly crazy. Just slipping out of control, but, that there is no definitive point upon which to focus our gaze and say THAT'S the problem.

I routinely take lobbying trips to DC. I generally have 20 volunteers in tow (like herding cats) for each visit. We train them up on the first day and then loose them on the House and Senate offices for the rest of the week. In my years of doing this I have noted big changes in the capitol mood, from the congressional offices all the way to the attitudes of coffee shop clerks. There appears to be be a more superficial texture to the comments, responses, opinions I hear from people at all levels. Surely people are not thinking less deeply. Rather it seems as if they are just sharing less willingly. I think its due to the fact that people are uncomfortable being WITHOUT an opinion whether it's in DC or Lansing, or pohdunk USA. It's not really appropriate (at least in a 3T mood) to simply state "ya know, I just don't know what to think any longer. I can't say where I stand, or where I think we're going these days." People are waiting for the other shoe to drop and wondering if it'll be a sandle or a steel boot.

There is a tension, but its like a dull humm as opposed to the crackle of 2002.

tic, tic, tic, tic, tic.................







Post#11489 at 07-13-2007 05:16 PM by Cynic Hero '86 [at Upstate New York joined Jul 2006 #posts 1,285]
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I looked at the results of the 2006 elections and compared them with those of 1928-1930 and the results are very similar. However the mandates on this saeculums equivalent electoral shifts seem to be smaller than in 1930, coupled with the generational constallation seems to suggest that we're in a period equivalent to 1929-1930.







Post#11490 at 07-13-2007 06:09 PM by Millennial_90' [at joined Jan 2007 #posts 253]
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Al Gore continues to be hailed as the next GC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brent-...h_b_55292.html

Draft Al Gore, The True Heir To FDR and JFK

As 2 billion people join the LiveEarth concert on seven continents, a group of New Hampshire citizens has started a movement to put Al Gore on the ballot in New Hampshire.

ast week a poll in New Hampshire showed Al Gore winning the primary in that state and this coming fall I predict Al Gore will win the Nobel Prize for peace.

Every so often, in America, voters have an opportunity to fire the shot that will be heard around the world, to lift the spirits of America and lift the stature and reputation of America around the world.

It is time for a genuine and authentic national draft movement to put Al Gore's name on the ballot in every state where it is possible and more from worthy advocacy to direct action.

Every American should read Al Gore's book The Assault On Reason, a manifesto for freedom and democracy in the modern world, a sweeping indictment of the sins and shames of the George Bush era and a call to arms for everything that America can be.

In my view The Assault On Reason is the single most profound and important book since 9-11 in describing what has gone so catastrophically wrong during the Bush years, and what needs to be done.

Al Gore is the true and legitimate heir to Franklin Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy as a political leader who stands for fundamental change, a new political order in America, a new political realignment based on a lifetime of enormous achievement and a program that lays out a noble vision and concrete plan.

There is no candidate, in either party, who even comes close to being commander in chief ready on his first day as President. As Congressman, Senator, Vice President, leader, entrepreneur, capitalist, visionary, and a man with a moral compass Gore has the qualifications and experience necessary in a President, with the courage and principle our leaders should have.

There is no candidate, in either party, who has demonstrated any leadership, on any issue, even close the the leadership Al Gore has demonstrated on global warming and the environment not for a season, but for a lifetime.

There is no candidate, in either party, who has been so cogently correct on the great war of our times, as Al Gore has been in opposing the war in Iraq from the beginning, and in standing for an Americanism that honors free speech, the Bill of Rights, and our national values from opposing torture to supporting civil and human rights.

There is no candidate, in either party, who has been so far ahead of his times, on so many occasions, measured in decades and not months, on great issue after great issue from nuclear non-proliferation to alternative energy, from the potential of technology to the civil and human rights of men and women.

Judgement, temperament, experience, and knowledge are qualities that developed over a lifetime and qualities urgently needed in our next President.

Al Gore was born in the spirit of the new South and has stood for civil rights and equality, for civil liberties and constitutional freedom, in good times and bad, and is the ideal voice when even our Supreme Court is revisiting the dark days of segregrated justice in America.

America is ready for another revolution, a return to the first principles of freedom, for a profound reformation of the corruption that plagues our system, for a profound uplifting of the American Spirit based on high ideals, great aspirations, noble traditions and civic decency.

America is ending what will be seen as a dark interlude in our national affairs, which will be known as the Bush years, which will end with great rejoicing throughout America and around the world.

Gore-Obama, Gore-Webb, Gore-Bloomberg, Gore-Clark, Gore-Richardson, there is magic in them all, which is the magic of America.

Ladies and gentlemen, do not be deceived by the darkness on the evening news or the nasty poison that envelopes our politics. The dead hand of the past is ending, the future is now beginning, and the ideal man to lead it and shape it, is Al Gore.

Our mission, as Democrats, is not to elect a candidate or a Congress, but to change our country, to return what we have always been at our best, to bring out the nobility and spirit and character of our nation.

Our mission is not to win an election, but to inaugurate a new era in American history that will be reminiscent of those great eras of reform and renewal brought by Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy.

The heir to that tradition, the bearer of that legacy, and the person of substance and stature who towers over the mediocrity of our political times is Al Gore.

The draft movement will soon have his name on the ballot for the shot that could be heard around the world as the man, the mission and moment come together.
Last edited by Millennial_90'; 07-13-2007 at 06:14 PM.







Post#11491 at 07-13-2007 06:45 PM by Finch [at In the belly of the Beast joined Feb 2004 #posts 1,734]
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
I looked at the results of the 2006 elections and compared them with those of 1928-1930 and the results are very similar. However the mandates on this saeculums equivalent electoral shifts seem to be smaller than in 1930, coupled with the generational constallation seems to suggest that we're in a period equivalent to 1929-1930.
No doubt we don't have enough data yet; we need to see if the 2008 elections confirm (or reject) the saecular trend of the 2006 elections. I've stated 2005 = 1929 :: 2008 = 1932 for a while now, but we'll see...
Yes we did!







Post#11492 at 07-13-2007 08:31 PM by Millennial_90' [at joined Jan 2007 #posts 253]
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Quote Originally Posted by Finch View Post
No doubt we don't have enough data yet; we need to see if the 2008 elections confirm (or reject) the saecular trend of the 2006 elections. I've stated 2005 = 1929 :: 2008 = 1932 for a while now, but we'll see...
Yes, we will have to wait and see how the ELK 08' turns out. I think the next few years will be a new threshold for us and our place in this world . The mood right now, both at home and abroad, has become darker and pessimistic. Fears of a new apacolypse are amounting, both in pop culture (Mel Gibson's Apacolypto - comparing ) and in current events (e.g. the bloody siege of the Red Mosque). Much of the world is at a standstill - resembling the public mood right on the eve of "Black Monday" 1929. Many of us are expecting for the worst, and many of us are preparing for the worst. In the coming years ahead, we could very well witness catacylsmic environmental disasters, heightened global conflict, or severe economic crisis. Whatever it is, something is definately in the making, and the person who is elected in 08' must be prepared to deal with this situation. If he/she has the qualities of a Grey Champion, then he/she will rise to the occasion and triumph over the crisis that awaits their arrival (the Abe Lincoln 1860-62 best case scenario), if not then she/he will flounder in utter despair (the Hebert Hoover 1928-1930 worst-case scenario) IMO it is likely to be the latter. None of the current candidates seem to have an agenda that resonates well with the masses. And the frontrunners, Clinton and Guliani, have not mapped out any new path for serious change. Rather than redefine the conventions government, all are tinkering with existing policies (esp. with Social Security and Health Care) but no one seems willing to change our fundamentals and depart from the norms.

As I've mentioned before, I think that the 2008 Election will be analagous with the 1928 Election. Of course, the political atmosphere is different: National Security was not a vital concern in 1928, and our current incumbent president is not widly popular nor has he been credited with creating a booming economy (like Calvin Coolidge was in 1928). But the electoral trends are unusually similiar:
  • The voter turnout for the 1928 election was the highest for both the losing (Al Smith) and the winning (Hoover) candidate. With the growing media coverage of this election, the amount of money being spent by the candidates (this could very well be the first 1 Billion $ election), and the droves of Millenial voters registering, we could certainly expect to see a highter voter turnout than the E24.
  • The 2008 race is the first non-incumbent or "open seat" election (in which neither the sitting President nor the sitting Vice President will be a candidate) since 1928. That was the the same election in which Hoover won a highly-contested election, continued the policies of his Republican predecessors, and blundered when the Great Depression struck. Perhaps we may witness something similiar along those lines again.
  • The generational placement of these dates is also revealing. The 2008 and 1928 elections are precisely 80 years apart (the typical length of a saeculum). Its not only just that a full saeculum seperates the previous 4T from this one, but the age brackets are remarkably similiar. In 1928, the oldest Missionaries were 68 yrs. old, the oldest Losts were 45 yrs old, and the the oldest G.I.s were 27 yrs. old. Similiarily, by 2008, the oldest Boomers (b. 1943) will be 65 yrs old, the oldest Xers (b. 1961) will be 47, and the oldest Milles (b. 1982) will be 26 yrs old.
  • The 1928 Democratic candidate, Al Smith, Smith achieved a major distinction in his bid for presidency: he won a majority of large cities for the first time, including the country's 12 most populous cities, signaling a trend of immense significance. In long-term perspective Al Smith started a voter realignment that became more evident with the 1932 and 1936 landslide victories. In the 2008 Election, we can expect to witness a number of electoral trends that may presage a realignment in the same manner. As shown in the 2006 midterm election, Democrats have been gaining strength in South and Southwest states like Florida and Virginia. Towns and cities defined by an information-based economy, have become the breeding ground for newly-registered Democrats. If trends continue, by 2012, the Democrats could enjoy an electoral base of 332 electoral votes.
  • The 1928 election was notable for the use of innovative novelties as radio commercials and sound newsreels. Similiarly, internet technologies (via Youtube, Myspace, and Facebook) will certainly play a large role in the 2008 Election.
Last edited by Millennial_90'; 07-13-2007 at 08:34 PM.







Post#11493 at 07-16-2007 08:53 AM by Skabungus [at West Michigan joined Jun 2007 #posts 1,027]
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Secular Pivot Point

Execllent post Millennial '90!

As we enter the secular crisis, I note that the Religious Right seems to be in disarray. Many evangelicals are jumping ship to join the greener side of the spectrum.....embracing environmental stewardship as a way of expressing faith.....this is a far cry from the whole-hearted support for R candidates over the past 20 years.

The Dems never did manage (and probably wont ever manage) to become the "spiritual" equivalent of the Reganistas. It's something that hurt them terribly in 3T elections, but, may end up their saving grace (amazing?) as we enter the brass tacks issues of the 4T. The gods work in mysterious ways!

In Michigan Militialand we've recently witnessed Dems taking control of the state house of representatives and Dem Gov. Jennifer Grandholm (eek! A WOMAN TOO!!!) winning by a sound majority over Dick "what's in a name" DeVos......a hardcore right-wing conservative Bushie with a vocabulary almost as broad as GWB's. The move to the Dem side of the fence here in Michigan, I feel, is significant and an early indicator of things to come. After all, the "end times" seem to have already come to Michigan with the auto makers buckeling the economy is in the bag; housing forclosures are at record highs; government shutdowns eminent.......Michigan is in a resession even if the rest of the country is coasting along reasonably well. I think 2008 will show a significant move to the Dems, particularly in state houses, and local elections. People here are quite sick of the the "trickel down theory", tax breaks for the rich and other key points of R political speeches. The one front that seems not to be weekening here in Militialand of the north is the religious right. Still rabid about creationism, anti-abortionism, homeskewling, tax cutting and such, they maintain a strong stake in the State's future. Are they strong enough to hold back the push of millions of unemployed, pissed of middle class voters thinking more about how to pay their very secular bills? We'll see.

Could pockets like Michigan Militialand and Katrinatown be good indicators of how people in dire straights react? I think so.

Secular crisis? Pick a secular solution.

Just for the record............I am not a Democrat.







Post#11494 at 07-16-2007 04:10 PM by bobd [at Toledo,Ohio joined Nov 2002 #posts 16]
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Yet Another Possible (non) Catalyst in the Offing?

I found this article from the UK's Guardian on-line today and thought it interesting. Some relevant quotes:

The balance in the internal White House debate over Iran has shifted back in favour of military action before President George Bush leaves office in 18 months, the Guardian has learned.

The shift follows an internal review involving the White House, the Pentagon and the state department over the last month. Although the Bush administration is in deep trouble over Iraq, it remains focused on Iran. A well-placed source in Washington said: "Bush is not going to leave office with Iran still in limbo."


...

Nick Burns, the undersecretary of state responsible for Iran and a career diplomat who is one of the main advocates of negotiation, told the meeting it was likely that diplomatic manoeuvring would still be continuing in January 2009. That assessment went down badly with Mr Cheney and Mr Bush.

"Cheney has limited capital left, but if he wanted to use all his capital on this one issue, he could still have an impact," said Patrick Cronin, the director of studies at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.


Any speculation viz. a 4T catalyst should Bush decide to attack Iran prior to either the 2008 election or, more ominously, immediately thereafter? Or would this be yet another non-catalyst catalyst?

Bob D.
Last edited by bobd; 07-16-2007 at 05:48 PM. Reason: corrected stupid grammer in my OP







Post#11495 at 07-16-2007 08:57 PM by Cynic Hero '86 [at Upstate New York joined Jul 2006 #posts 1,285]
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Quote Originally Posted by Millennial_90' View Post
Unfortunately given the incompetence of the republicans and selfishness of their candidates combined with the cluelessness of the leadership sector of the democrats will likely lead to the 2008 election being between Mccain and Hillary.







Post#11496 at 07-16-2007 09:30 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
Unfortunately given the incompetence of the republicans and selfishness of their candidates combined with the cluelessness of the leadership sector of the democrats will likely lead to the 2008 election being between Mccain and Hillary.
McCain has already started slip-sliding away.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#11497 at 07-16-2007 09:43 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by jadams View Post
I think "cascade" is the word, from little things to bigger and bigger things. So many it is hard to remember them all.
- 2000 supreme court rules against Florida recount
- when was enron? (remember Junior was involved in that too)
- 911 ( and don't forget our saudi friends)
- No more taxes for the rich (haunting)
- Just go shopping (also haunting)
- war on terror
- suspending habeas corpus
- illegal wiretapping
- giving US Army to oil corporations free of charge to fight their war to protect their oil profits
- iraq occupation
- Plame affair
- Abramoff scandal
- Tom deLay and K street
- No bid contracts in Iraq, Halliburton et al
- I know I am forgetting some other big financial scandal!
- swift-boating John Kerry... I also cannot remember why things turned so rapidly and so badly immediately after the 2004 election. Was it:
- HURRICANE KATRINA??!
- Fitzgerald investigation
- All the interesting gay outings like Mark whosit and the gay emails, and that preacher with the gay prostitute, and the Military Studs.com guy who they hired as a shill for Bush's press conferences
- cheney shoots somebody (it's all gettting kind of funny)
- Illegal aliens dust up
- my short term memory is fried. I can't remember the order of it all, but I do think that the Libby "commute" is a bigger deal than I expected. Ask yourself, why not a pardon? Got to keep him on the hook until Junior is out of office? IMAGINE WHAT LIBBY KNOWS ABOUT EVERYTHING

Well, what did I miss? And what the heck was Junior doing with Daddy and Pooty Poot at Kennebunkport? That spells something big don't it? Is it oil? Or Cheney loss of power? Or what?

In any case, I have been surprised how many people brought up the Libby pardon during the holidays. Even people I thought were politically clueless. There's a sense of helplessness that is starting to feel like DESPERATION.

And notice the msm...they do not change their tune unless their corporate masters tell them to. Interesante.

And I think we will have one more thing to add to the list... constitutional crisis. I don't think it will be "just" an impeachment. Things are just getting too wacked out of control.

I don't know what to expect anymore, but someone once wrote in the forum that Bush was the catalyst and I am beginning to agree.
The Bush administration is pure ugliness. Intractable... but grating. It's what happens when a vice such as greed is transmogrified into a virtue with nothing more than repetition, and when old decencies in politics become 'rules for fools'. One wonders when murder becomes another tool of politics.

(Technically, lying about a casus belli in order to delude an elected legislature into authorizing an aggressive and illegal war is itself a war crime... and deaths related to war crimes are tantamount to murder).

I see only one virtue in this Administration -- loyalty. But it is loyalty to its own lies and to those who do the dirtiest of dirty work). It isn't only the Administration; it was also Congress, which had so many scandals that most Americans believed that it needed major changes in partisan composition.







Post#11498 at 07-17-2007 12:28 AM by MillinnealJim [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 42]
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07-17-2007, 12:28 AM #11498
Join Date
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Posts
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
Unfortunately given the incompetence of the republicans and selfishness of their candidates combined with the cluelessness of the leadership sector of the democrats will likely lead to the 2008 election being between Mccain and Hillary.
Don't count your chickens before they are hatched...

The primary season has a long way to go. A lot can happen, and as others have noted, McCain is slipping already. On the Democratic side, Obama is a strong contender, Edwards is playing the populist game (which makes him unpredictable), and for all we know, we could be stunned this fall by a Gore entry, which would completely shake up the entire race. These are unpredictable times, and my feeling is that the next President will be someone unexpected today.


As for Bush, he's not the catalyst. He's just one of many who will someday be regarded as a bump in History's road. His only current relevance is in that he apparently has decided to stand against the tide in his final years in the Oval Office, and veto everything that comes his way from the Democrats. A brief list of bills he has either vetoed or threatened to veto, since the Democrats took Congress (not all inclusive):

1. The College Cost Reduction Act - H.R. 2669
2. Homeland Security Appropriations - H.R. 2638
3. State-Foreign Operations Appropriations - H.R. 2764
4. Interior-Environment Appropriations - H.R. 2643
5. The Energy Price Gouging Act H.R. 1252
6. The No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels (NOPEC) Act - H.R. 2264
7. FY 2008 Defense Authorization Bill - H.R. 1585
8. FY 2008 Homeland Security Authorization - H.R. 1684
9. Hate Crimes Prevention Act H.R. 1592
10. D.C. Voting Rights Act H.R. 1905
11. Rail and Mass Transit Security Act - H.R. 1401
12. Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007 - H.R. 1255
13. Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2007 - H.R. 985
14. Reauthorizing Clean Water State Revolving Loan Fund - H.R. 720
15. Employee Free Choice Act - H.R. 800
16. Requiring Medicare to Negotiate Lower Prescription Drug Prices - H.R. 4

The college cost reduction act is one of the biggest increases in student aid since the GI bill. Whatever will the late wave Millies think?

FYI- a more comprehensive list can be found at this link: http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0058

It's from Pelosi's office, so take that for what you will.







Post#11499 at 07-17-2007 12:38 AM by Cynic Hero '86 [at Upstate New York joined Jul 2006 #posts 1,285]
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07-17-2007, 12:38 AM #11499
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Yes, but I was stating the worst case scenario as it appear so far for 2008. Given the current candidates and potentials, that was what I had in the earlier statement.







Post#11500 at 07-17-2007 10:06 AM by Mustang [at Confederate States of America joined May 2003 #posts 2,303]
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07-17-2007, 10:06 AM #11500
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Quote Originally Posted by MillinnealJim View Post
His only current relevance is in that he apparently has decided to stand against the tide in his final years in the Oval Office, and veto everything that comes his way from the Democrats. A brief list of bills he has either vetoed or threatened to veto, since the Democrats took Congress (not all inclusive):

1. The College Cost Reduction Act - H.R. 2669
2. Homeland Security Appropriations - H.R. 2638
3. State-Foreign Operations Appropriations - H.R. 2764
4. Interior-Environment Appropriations - H.R. 2643
5. The Energy Price Gouging Act H.R. 1252
6. The No Oil Producing and Exporting Cartels (NOPEC) Act - H.R. 2264
7. FY 2008 Defense Authorization Bill - H.R. 1585
8. FY 2008 Homeland Security Authorization - H.R. 1684
9. Hate Crimes Prevention Act H.R. 1592
10. D.C. Voting Rights Act H.R. 1905
11. Rail and Mass Transit Security Act - H.R. 1401
12. Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007 - H.R. 1255
13. Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2007 - H.R. 985
14. Reauthorizing Clean Water State Revolving Loan Fund - H.R. 720
15. Employee Free Choice Act - H.R. 800
16. Requiring Medicare to Negotiate Lower Prescription Drug Prices - H.R. 4

The college cost reduction act is one of the biggest increases in student aid since the GI bill. Whatever will the late wave Millies think?

FYI- a more comprehensive list can be found at this link: http://www.speaker.gov/legislation?id=0058

It's from Pelosi's office, so take that for what you will.

That's rather humorous. The moron didn't veto a damn thing for the first six years of his "regency" and, consequently, the Bush vermin have given us virtually unprecedented growth in the size, scope, and expense of government (in the fine tradition of the biggest "liberals" in history). Of course he's only doing what he's told to do by his babysitters and it is those babysitters who are really to blame. But still, the moron goes out of his way to act like a petulant little child so he indeed deserves a serious spanking.
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."

-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
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