My prices dropped again yesterday, to $4.059/159/259.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

What are gas/petrol prices like in Oz? Have they been rising?

By the way, my sister and her family are in the Sydney area right now, visiting her husband's family.

They have been rising strongly in recent years, no surprises there. But they have been stable in recent weeks, probably dropping.

The prices where I live have been around 160-165 cent per liter mark for a while now. I am planning on prices rising more than that.

Even for a small 4 cylinder car filling up is quite expensive. For example a 1990 Nissan Pulsar Hatchback with a 1.6 liter engine, filling up it's 50 liter fuel tank costs about $80, which is enough to go 600 kilometers.

When met by an issue of great importance and seriousness (e.g. Energy Independence) we can count on our elected leaders to behave with good statesmanship and maturity..... or NOT

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12252.html

At the stroke of 5:00 on Friday afternoon, House Republicans ended their half-day protest on the darkened chamber floor with a round of “God Bless America.”

That capped a wild day in the chamber, where Republicans, aides and tourists broke all manner of House protocols to protest the Democrats’ decision to leave Washington for the five-week August recess without voting on a measure to open new land to domestic oil and gas exploration.

The uproar began shortly before noon, after members cast their votes along party lines on the question of whether or not to adjourn for the day.

A small band of Republicans, protesting the decision to adjourn without an oil vote, started to speak from the well — even though the lights weren’t on, the microphones were turned off and most of their colleagues were scrambling to catch flights out of town.

An empty floor is one thing when TV cameras are there, but C-SPAN’s cameras, which typically broadcast every word uttered on the floors of both chambers, were not allowed to broadcast the revolt since the chamber was officially closed for business.

So this small band of rank-and-file Republicans, led by Georgia Rep. Tom Price and Indiana Rep. Mike Pence, shouted their criticisms of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, the liberal Democrat who stuck around to watch the first few speakers, and a collection of tourists in the gallery.

Reporters were asked to clear the Speaker’s Lobby adjoining the floor, and after relocating to a press gallery directly above it, were notified they might soon be asked to leave so the gallery could be closed since the House was no longer in session.

Republican Congressmen, eager to keep the press present, headed up to the gallery one at a time, each relieving the last, to keep it from closing.

The substance of the speeches was of a piece with the summer-long move by Republicans to hammer Democratic leaders in both chambers for failing to allow a vote on measures that would open more acres — most notably in Alaska and in the Outer Continental Shelf — to domestic oil and gas exploration by private companies — a proposal that has gained popularity with voters as the price of oil has increased.

It’s a vote Democratic leaders have thus far successfully avoided.

Republican Leader John A. Boehner of Ohio and his No. 2, party Whip Roy Blunt of Missouri, both appeared at the protest — a public acknowledgment that they approved of the step.

Republicans shouted their remarks from the well of the House until Arizona Rep. John B. Shadegg fumbled with the public address system and finally found the correct access code allowing him to turn on the microphone.

When he did, members cheered.

In fact, members did a lot of cheering Friday.

They cheered when the lights came on. They cheered when the lights went off again. They even cheered when the crowd in the galleries applauded their remarks.

In between, they shouted, “Work! Work! Work!”

When Capitol Police closed the tourist galleries, the members invited visitors down to the chamber floor — a rare privilege made possible because the House was not officially in session, so the regular rules did not apply.

Members noted these irregularities in their remarks all afternoon, and Republican staff scrambled to get members and aides on the floor to keep the momentum building. At one point, leadership aides sent out an all points bulletin to Republican staff asking for a bullhorn to help members broadcast their remarks to those in the chamber. Many lawmakers canceled their flights to make remarks on the floor.

Texas Rep. Kevin Brady even wheeled his suitcase onto the House floor.

In total, 48 Republicans spoke on the floor Friday, offering remarks ranging from the impassioned to the plainly partisan. Michigan Rep. Thaddeus G. McCotter declared, “This is the People’s House. This is not Pelosi’s Politburo.” He later pretended to be a Democrat, walking to their side of the floor to announce all the votes they had prevented.

The party has taken many lumps since losing control of the House and Senate in 2006, and members clearly relished the chance to be partisan pranksters.

California Rep. Devin Nunes and others paraded on the floor with a poster of a Volkswagen Bug with a sail attached, claiming that was the Democrats’ answer to rising fuel prices.

Texas Rep. John Culberson fed updates to his personal Twitter site from a cell phone that recorded the entire day.

This, of course, is not the first time members of the minority have stayed in the chamber after the House closed for official business; in 1995, when Republicans were in control, Democrats pulled a similar stunt. During that protest, they put a photo in the speaker’s chair of then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) wearing a diaper.

The protest occurred after the Democrats crafted an adjournment rule preventing Republicans from making a series of five-minute speeches to bash the majority party for declining to vote on offshore drilling.

More than 75 members had signed up to offer a brief speech when the House approved an adjournment resolution largely along party lines that shut the chamber immediately after the last vote.

As news of the protest spread over the Internet, the assembled Republicans eventually convened a news conference right outside Statuary Hall.

The attendant gaggle of reporters and cameras was the largest such crowd many of these members had attracted to a press conference since assuming the minority early last year.

Price, the energetic ringleader, told the throng, “What we did today was give voice to the American people on the biggest issue they face today: the high price of gasoline.”

Through the afternoon, Democrats were silent on the protest.

Afterward, Pelosi spokesman Nadeam Elshami said Democrats have "offered real solutions to bring down energy costs, promote renewable fuels and energy efficiency and promote oil production right here in America."

Citing a litany of modest measures to address commodity speculation and unused drilling permits, among other smaller legislation, Elshami argued "a majority of congressional Republicans have voted 'no' each time. They should go home to their districts and explain their record of obstructing common-sense proposals to address the pain at the pump."

During the press conference, at least three members announced their intent to stay in Washington — if not on the floor — until Pelosi brought lawmakers back from break to vote on an energy package. Pence even asked President Bush to command Congress to return to session.

But minutes later, this band of partisan pranksters went back to the floor, where Price told the crowd that the Republicans were wrapping up their protest to end an afternoon of rarities in the Capitol.

He and his band high-fived and exchanged hugs as they left the floor to chants of “USA! USA! USA!”

A 60s-style protest in the very chambers of Congress? LOL! I love Baby Boomers!

Originally Posted by Millennial_90'

When met by an issue of great importance and seriousness (e.g. Energy Independence) we can count on our elected leaders to behave with good statesmanship and maturity..... or NOT

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12252.html

A 60s-style protest in the very chambers of Congress? LOL! I love Baby Boomers!

They still haven't grown up yet, obviously. How childish.

I've wrote a short piece comparing the Americas of 1948, 1968, 1988, and 2008. Do you agree?

The world was still reeling from the global catastrophe that was World War II in 1948. While the hot war had ended, the Iron Curtain descended upon much of the world, beginning a period of competition and global power struggle that lasted for nearly 50 years. America was in a period of calm. Americans were beginning to feel wealthy and increasingly secure. The labor movement seemed dead. Americans coming of age or returning from war settled into Suburbia. This was the Truman era. The institutions of the New Deal were uncontroversial, as was the era's new corporatism. The US military integrated that year, and a large peacetime military and defense was uncontroversial. Americans were generally patriotic, non-questioning. This was the start of the “know your place” type of conservatism that the 1950s is generally known for. Social movements stalled, and the youth were the most conformist in living memory. Young people did not want to rock the boat in 1948. They valued social and political stability above all else, and embraced the command-and-control world their elders has prepared for them. The culture began to change as Rock entered the social scene for the first time. Television was a rapidly growing technology, a brand new medium perfectly suited for the transmission of GI culture. The culture seemed bland, friendly, rational. People were not focused on pop culture, but rather on the building and maintenance of public institutions and infrastructure. This was an era of technological dominance by the GIs, as they took the reigns of advanced industry and science and worked to turn America into a scientific and technological superpower. They helped to build the great American wealth machine that would last for several decades. This was the era of social stability, low crime, and safe neighborhoods, even in the roughest of urban neighborhoods. This was also an era of strict norms related to gender, sex, etc. Breaking these rules (such as unmarried sex) could mean social ruin for the offender.


1968 was a famous year of turmoil, unrest, and upheaval. Discouraged by the youth protesting and unrest over Vietnam, Lyndon B. Johnson declined to run for a second term, leading to the rise of Nixon. Americans were disillusioned by the MLK and RFK assassinations, the failure of Great Society, and the social turmoil of that year. The “Silent Majority” (which was primarily Middle Aged Silents) wanted Nixon to enforce law and order to a world that young people seemed hell-bent on wrecking with rampant rioting, vandalism, and actions that did not conform to 1950s-era social standards. The economy fared very well during this period. The politics of social and collective action was still uncontroversial during this era, and was used by both the old GI Generation and the Boomers coming of age in their social movements. But the seed of Goldwater would rise through the era, culminating in the rise of Reagan in 1980, at the Awakening's end. The social and collective action of the period encountered massive controversy, as different factions formed and fought, making it impossible. The many assassinations, as well as Vietnam killed much of the hope and idealism of the prior years, leading to to mass social hysteria, violence, rage, and despair. This was a golden era of music, sex, and drugs in the youth culture. The youth bonded very intimately with the pop culture and their pop culture icons. In fact, the musicians were often heroes of the youth cultural revolution. Soul and Rock were popular musical genres The classics of the 1960s and 1970s are still rather popular today among people of all ages. There was a major lifestyle revolution during this period, as the values of Height street in San Francisco, the center of the Hippie movement, (which was described as “a place where you could find heaven and hell in the same place”), challenged and led society to challenge traditional norms and values. Youth went to work on building a new culture. This happened with the new Hippie movement, the Black Power Movement, and later on, with resurgent Christian evangelism. This led to the rise of contemporary identity politics. Americans began to reject technology, science, rationalism, economics, etc, and preferred a pure, profound, and authenic spiritual experience. Americans celebrated the rational, technological, the scientific for the last time in 1969 with the Moon landings, which rank as some of the greatest technological achievements in history, the dream of scientists, dreamers, and engineers who earlier read/wrote science fiction, worked on the A-Bomb, and joined Rocket Clubs in their youthful years.



In 1988, Jesse Jackson ran for president. He never made it past the primaries, though. The youth of that year were more conservative than the previous bunch. They were not interested in the 1960s era rhetoric of Jackson, but were now interested in free market individualism, business, and accumulating vast personal wealth. With the rise of Reagan and the Yuppies in the 1980s, the new ideal was that of personal success. Americans celebrated the slow disintegration of the Soviet Union, leading to its collapse from 1989 to 1991. With that, Americans idealized a purist laissez-faire capitalism to accumulate vast personal wealth. The ideal lifestyle was to accumulate wealth, and then spend it on “living the good life” or just plain hedonistic fun. People believed that "greed is good", that making large sums of personal money was good for the nation and for the economy. The old politics of social and collective action, which was still popular during the prior era, now reeked of the stagnating and then collapsing Soviet Union totalitarianism and bureaucracy, of command-and-control. In the culture, this was the era of grunge, hip-hop, and, most significantly, of the megastar in music (Michael Jackson and Madonna), film, and sports (Michael Jordan). Americans fully embraced their ethnic identities, and we fully steeped in identity politics of some sort (mainly racial, gender, ethic, religion, etc.). In technology, Apple and Microsoft dominated the personal computer revolution, while Nintendo dominated gaming. Crime was unusually high during this time. Crack cocaine was fueling social disintegration and violence in inner cities, and turning crack sellers into wealthy people living the good life. With crime making many Americans uneasy, the personal safety (and later the child safety) movement would explode. Americans felt denormed, more liked a tossed salad than a melting pot. Action movies were very large in the box office. This, and the youth culture valued the purely physical, the athletic, which would by the 1990s would be classified as and pushed to the x-treme. People felt that The space shuttle Challenger has exploded just two years earlier, beginning a downslide from the more glorious 1960s and 1970s years. This era seemed to take the 1950s, and to invert it.


In 2008, Americans felt caught up in a perfect storm. The year began with the historic and intense battle between the first ever woman and first ever black person for presidency. That primary had dominated politics during the first half of 2008. The presidential contest of 2008 was dominated by worldly and secular issues rather than the wedge politics of the prior 40 years. The fight is to replace Bush, who has endured a stormy presidency, with ups (immediately after 9/11 in 2001) and downs (immediately after Hurricane Katrina in 2005), and is very unpopular with the public. The free-market conservatism of the prior several decades had collapsed three year earlier after Katrina. Obama has emerged as a political megastar, massively and broadly popular among young people, who are moving towards post-identity, who have a sense of solidarity across traditional social/cultural boundaries older generations never experienced, and who are yearning to start a new chapter in American history. Economically, Americans seem caught up in a massive vortex. The continued free-fall in the housing industry, the many credit crises, and expensive energy are parts of a perfect economic storm that many fear will bring a long and protracted recession. And then there is the problem of expensive energy and geopolitical turmoil resulting from a possible energy shortage. The continued rise in the price of oil and the global food crisis of 2008 have contributed to the mood of Crisis. The decades long consumption binge of America experienced a drastic slowdown, and Americans are turning more frugal, having abandoned large SUVs. In products, Americans again value the practical and inexpensive. This is even fueling a DIY technological movement among youngsters. The world of technology now seems youth led. They are using interactive networked technologies to communicate, play, and cooperate with each other. Electronic gaming has become an integral part of the youth popular culture, larger than the music and film industries which are struggling with the youth. The media world is being shaped drastically by information technologies, driven by young people with a vision on how to change our relationship to technology. Youth are interested in using science, optimism, technology and teamwork to solve global secular problems, such as poverty, war, energy. The film industry seems dominated by epics (fantasy, scifi, superhero/comic). These films represent a need and want of a hero in uncertain, stormy, and dark times. The music industry is on the verge of collapse. The culture, though is experiencing a revenge of the geeks and nerds, with the widespread popularity of technology among young people, the dominance of scifi, fantasy, and superhero epics in film and television, the rise of Obama, and popularity of smart musicians such as Kanye West. NASA is in a Crisis, as it needs to replace the Shuttle. At the same time, there is renewed space activism and interest, as well as efforts from the private sector and universities.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I've wrote a short piece comparing the Americas of 1948, 1968, 1988, and 2008. Do you agree?

The world was still reeling from the global catastrophe that was World War II in 1948. While the hot war had ended, the Iron Curtain descended upon much of the world, beginning a period of competition and global power struggle that lasted for nearly 50 years. America was in a period of calm. Americans were beginning to feel wealthy and increasingly secure. The labor movement seemed dead. Americans coming of age or returning from war settled into Suburbia. This was the Truman era. The institutions of the New Deal were uncontroversial, as was the era's new corporatism. The US military integrated that year, and a large peacetime military and defense was uncontroversial. Americans were generally patriotic, non-questioning. This was the start of the “know your place” type of conservatism that the 1950s is generally known for. Social movements stalled, and the youth were the most conformist in living memory. Young people did not want to rock the boat in 1948. They valued social and political stability above all else, and embraced the command-and-control world their elders has prepared for them. The culture began to change as Rock entered the social scene for the first time. Television was a rapidly growing technology, a brand new medium perfectly suited for the transmission of GI culture. The culture seemed bland, friendly, rational. People were not focused on pop culture, but rather on the building and maintenance of public institutions and infrastructure. This was an era of technological dominance by the GIs, as they took the reigns of advanced industry and science and worked to turn America into a scientific and technological superpower. They helped to build the great American wealth machine that would last for several decades. This was the era of social stability, low crime, and safe neighborhoods, even in the roughest of urban neighborhoods. This was also an era of strict norms related to gender, sex, etc. Breaking these rules (such as unmarried sex) could mean social ruin for the offender.


1968 was a famous year of turmoil, unrest, and upheaval. Discouraged by the youth protesting and unrest over Vietnam, Lyndon B. Johnson declined to run for a second term, leading to the rise of Nixon. Americans were disillusioned by the MLK and RFK assassinations, the failure of Great Society, and the social turmoil of that year. The “Silent Majority” (which was primarily Middle Aged Silents) wanted Nixon to enforce law and order to a world that young people seemed hell-bent on wrecking with rampant rioting, vandalism, and actions that did not conform to 1950s-era social standards. The economy fared very well during this period. The politics of social and collective action was still uncontroversial during this era, and was used by both the old GI Generation and the Boomers coming of age in their social movements. But the seed of Goldwater would rise through the era, culminating in the rise of Reagan in 1980, at the Awakening's end. The social and collective action of the period encountered massive controversy, as different factions formed and fought, making it impossible. The many assassinations, as well as Vietnam killed much of the hope and idealism of the prior years, leading to to mass social hysteria, violence, rage, and despair. This was a golden era of music, sex, and drugs in the youth culture. The youth bonded very intimately with the pop culture and their pop culture icons. In fact, the musicians were often heroes of the youth cultural revolution. Soul and Rock were popular musical genres The classics of the 1960s and 1970s are still rather popular today among people of all ages. There was a major lifestyle revolution during this period, as the values of Height street in San Francisco, the center of the Hippie movement, (which was described as “a place where you could find heaven and hell in the same place”), challenged and led society to challenge traditional norms and values. Youth went to work on building a new culture. This happened with the new Hippie movement, the Black Power Movement, and later on, with resurgent Christian evangelism. This led to the rise of contemporary identity politics. Americans began to reject technology, science, rationalism, economics, etc, and preferred a pure, profound, and authenic spiritual experience. Americans celebrated the rational, technological, the scientific for the last time in 1969 with the Moon landings, which rank as some of the greatest technological achievements in history, the dream of scientists, dreamers, and engineers who earlier read/wrote science fiction, worked on the A-Bomb, and joined Rocket Clubs in their youthful years.



In 1988, Jesse Jackson ran for president. He never made it past the primaries, though. The youth of that year were more conservative than the previous bunch. They were not interested in the 1960s era rhetoric of Jackson, but were now interested in free market individualism, business, and accumulating vast personal wealth. With the rise of Reagan and the Yuppies in the 1980s, the new ideal was that of personal success. Americans celebrated the slow disintegration of the Soviet Union, leading to its collapse from 1989 to 1991. With that, Americans idealized a purist laissez-faire capitalism to accumulate vast personal wealth. The ideal lifestyle was to accumulate wealth, and then spend it on “living the good life” or just plain hedonistic fun. People believed that "greed is good", that making large sums of personal money was good for the nation and for the economy. The old politics of social and collective action, which was still popular during the prior era, now reeked of the stagnating and then collapsing Soviet Union totalitarianism and bureaucracy, of command-and-control. In the culture, this was the era of grunge, hip-hop, and, most significantly, of the megastar in music (Michael Jackson and Madonna), film, and sports (Michael Jordan). Americans fully embraced their ethnic identities, and we fully steeped in identity politics of some sort (mainly racial, gender, ethic, religion, etc.). In technology, Apple and Microsoft dominated the personal computer revolution, while Nintendo dominated gaming. Crime was unusually high during this time. Crack cocaine was fueling social disintegration and violence in inner cities, and turning crack sellers into wealthy people living the good life. With crime making many Americans uneasy, the personal safety (and later the child safety) movement would explode. Americans felt denormed, more liked a tossed salad than a melting pot. Action movies were very large in the box office. This, and the youth culture valued the purely physical, the athletic, which would by the 1990s would be classified as and pushed to the x-treme. People felt that The space shuttle Challenger has exploded just two years earlier, beginning a downslide from the more glorious 1960s and 1970s years. This era seemed to take the 1950s, and to invert it.


In 2008, Americans felt caught up in a perfect storm. The year began with the historic and intense battle between the first ever woman and first ever black person for presidency. That primary had dominated politics during the first half of 2008. The presidential contest of 2008 was dominated by worldly and secular issues rather than the wedge politics of the prior 40 years. The fight is to replace Bush, who has endured a stormy presidency, with ups (immediately after 9/11 in 2001) and downs (immediately after Hurricane Katrina in 2005), and is very unpopular with the public. The free-market conservatism of the prior several decades had collapsed three year earlier after Katrina. Obama has emerged as a political megastar, massively and broadly popular among young people, who are moving towards post-identity, who have a sense of solidarity across traditional social/cultural boundaries older generations never experienced, and who are yearning to start a new chapter in American history. Economically, Americans seem caught up in a massive vortex. The continued free-fall in the housing industry, the many credit crises, and expensive energy are parts of a perfect economic storm that many fear will bring a long and protracted recession. And then there is the problem of expensive energy and geopolitical turmoil resulting from a possible energy shortage. The continued rise in the price of oil and the global food crisis of 2008 have contributed to the mood of Crisis. The decades long consumption binge of America experienced a drastic slowdown, and Americans are turning more frugal, having abandoned large SUVs. In products, Americans again value the practical and inexpensive. This is even fueling a DIY technological movement among youngsters. The world of technology now seems youth led. They are using interactive networked technologies to communicate, play, and cooperate with each other. Electronic gaming has become an integral part of the youth popular culture, larger than the music and film industries which are struggling with the youth. The media world is being shaped drastically by information technologies, driven by young people with a vision on how to change our relationship to technology. Youth are interested in using science, optimism, technology and teamwork to solve global secular problems, such as poverty, war, energy. The film industry seems dominated by epics (fantasy, scifi, superhero/comic). These films represent a need and want of a hero in uncertain, stormy, and dark times. The music industry is on the verge of collapse. The culture, though is experiencing a revenge of the geeks and nerds, with the widespread popularity of technology among young people, the dominance of scifi, fantasy, and superhero epics in film and television, the rise of Obama, and popularity of smart musicians such as Kanye West. NASA is in a Crisis, as it needs to replace the Shuttle. At the same time, there is renewed space activism and interest, as well as efforts from the private sector and universities.

Very well written post Mr. Reed. A very good read.

Two quibbles from one who was there:

In 1948 the labor movement may have been dead, but unions were very strong.

In 1968, middle-aged Silents may have been the Silent Majority, but young Silents tried to be Boomers. And were rejected. Waah!

And some of us kept the space dream alive in our hearts clear into 2008.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Two quibbles from one who was there:

In 1948 the labor movement may have been dead, but unions were very strong.

In 1968, middle-aged Silents may have been the Silent Majority, but young Silents tried to be Boomers. And were rejected. Waah!

And some of us kept the space dream alive in our hearts clear into 2008.

Lots of us in the aviation industry still dream. And X rejected Jones, so I know the jilted feeling.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Two quibbles from one who was there:

In 1948 the labor movement may have been dead, but unions were very strong.

In 1968, middle-aged Silents may have been the Silent Majority, but young Silents tried to be Boomers. And were rejected. Waah!

And some of us kept the space dream alive in our hearts clear into 2008.

Many of the middle-aged Silent Americans were probably GIs. The youngest GIs in 1968 were 44, and as a 12-year-old at the time, a number of my friends had GI parents.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Two quibbles from one who was there:

In 1948 the labor movement may have been dead, but unions were very strong.

In 1968, middle-aged Silents may have been the Silent Majority, but young Silents tried to be Boomers. And were rejected. Waah!

And some of us kept the space dream alive in our hearts clear into 2008.

Makes sense about the Silent Generational Division. The first wavers are the STJ Adaptives and would've been more in line with the NT (especially the NTJ second wave) GIs, while the last wavers more in tune with the NF Idealists.

The same division is apparent in the Xers, but reversed.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I've wrote a short piece comparing the Americas of 1948, 1968, 1988, and 2008. Do you agree?

The world was still reeling from the global catastrophe that was World War II in 1948. While the hot war had ended, the Iron Curtain descended upon much of the world, beginning a period of competition and global power struggle that lasted for nearly 50 years. America was in a period of calm. Americans were beginning to feel wealthy and increasingly secure. The labor movement seemed dead. Americans coming of age or returning from war settled into Suburbia. This was the Truman era. The institutions of the New Deal were uncontroversial, as was the era's new corporatism. The US military integrated that year, and a large peacetime military and defense was uncontroversial. Americans were generally patriotic, non-questioning. This was the start of the “know your place” type of conservatism that the 1950s is generally known for. Social movements stalled, and the youth were the most conformist in living memory. Young people did not want to rock the boat in 1948. They valued social and political stability above all else, and embraced the command-and-control world their elders has prepared for them.

Good enough. In 1948 anyone ten years old or so knew how dangerous the world could be. They knew how dangerous strong political passions could be, as they might lead to fulminating hatred that expressed itself at Bataan and in Dachau. People had faith in the familiar -- after all, Americans had fought not so much to create a new world as to protect old standards of moral decency. A couple years earlier, newsreels had images of skeletal survivors of Axis brutality and dead bodies, the souls recently residing within them, had endured far too much to remain. Harsh judgment had been passed upon culprits.

It is likely then that Americans were rarely so unaccepting of alien ideas. Convention was safe. People were still scared of any possible reversion to the Depression that people over fifteen knew all too well -- and they knew that it was best to trust big corporations that had mastered the art of production that had kept horrors at Bataan and Dachau from happening here. Young adults were mostly GIs who had known regimentation and accepted it as few generations before or since did. Regimentation in military life was necessary for survival, and regimentation in economic life was necessary to keep Depression away.

1968 was a famous year of turmoil, unrest, and upheaval. Discouraged by the youth protesting and unrest over Vietnam, Lyndon B. Johnson declined to run for a second term, leading to the rise of Nixon. Americans were disillusioned by the MLK and RFK assassinations, the failure of Great Society, and the social turmoil of that year. The “Silent Majority” (which was primarily Middle Aged Silents) wanted Nixon to enforce law and order to a world that young people seemed hell-bent on wrecking with rampant rioting, vandalism, and actions that did not conform to 1950s-era social standards. The economy fared very well during this period. The politics of social and collective action was still uncontroversial during this era, and was used by both the old GI Generation and the Boomers coming of age in their social movements. But the seed of Goldwater would rise through the era, culminating in the rise of Reagan in 1980, at the Awakening's end. The social and collective action of the period encountered massive controversy, as different factions formed and fought, making it impossible. The many assassinations, as well as Vietnam killed much of the hope and idealism of the prior years, leading to to mass social hysteria, violence, rage, and despair. This was a golden era of music, sex, and drugs in the youth culture. The youth bonded very intimately with the pop culture and their pop culture icons. In fact, the musicians were often heroes of the youth cultural revolution. Soul and Rock were popular musical genres The classics of the 1960s and 1970s are still rather popular today among people of all ages. There was a major lifestyle revolution during this period, as the values of Height street in San Francisco, the center of the Hippie movement, (which was described as “a place where you could find heaven and hell in the same place”), challenged and led society to challenge traditional norms and values. Youth went to work on building a new culture. This happened with the new Hippie movement, the Black Power Movement, and later on, with resurgent Christian evangelism. This led to the rise of contemporary identity politics. Americans began to reject technology, science, rationalism, economics, etc, and preferred a pure, profound, and authenic spiritual experience. Americans celebrated the rational, technological, the scientific for the last time in 1969 with the Moon landings, which rank as some of the greatest technological achievements in history, the dream of scientists, dreamers, and engineers who earlier read/wrote science fiction, worked on the A-Bomb, and joined Rocket Clubs in their youthful years.

By 1968, Superpower America was a victim of its own success. The consensus that Americans had to avoid strong feelings and cultural innovation while endorsing big organizations and uncritical commercialism gave way as youth who never knew Depression and civilization-threatening war were growing up. People don't look inside when they are hungry and scared. Children born after 1942 were able to enjoy relaxed childhoods, and those born slightly earlier were trying to make up for lost experiences. People took prosperity and national security for granted unless they were GI "fuddy-duddies". Conformity became a mark of someone caught in the past.

In 1988, Jesse Jackson ran for president. He never made it past the primaries, though. The youth of that year were more conservative than the previous bunch. They were not interested in the 1960s era rhetoric of Jackson, but were now interested in free market individualism, business, and accumulating vast personal wealth. With the rise of Reagan and the Yuppies in the 1980s, the new ideal was that of personal success. Americans celebrated the slow disintegration of the Soviet Union, leading to its collapse from 1989 to 1991. With that, Americans idealized a purist laissez-faire capitalism to accumulate vast personal wealth. The ideal lifestyle was to accumulate wealth, and then spend it on “living the good life” or just plain hedonistic fun. People believed that "greed is good", that making large sums of personal money was good for the nation and for the economy. The old politics of social and collective action, which was still popular during the prior era, now reeked of the stagnating and then collapsing Soviet Union totalitarianism and bureaucracy, of command-and-control. In the culture, this was the era of grunge, hip-hop, and, most significantly, of the megastar in music (Michael Jackson and Madonna), film, and sports (Michael Jordan). Americans fully embraced their ethnic identities, and we fully steeped in identity politics of some sort (mainly racial, gender, ethic, religion, etc.). In technology, Apple and Microsoft dominated the personal computer revolution, while Nintendo dominated gaming.

By the 1980s people felt good about themselves irrespective of age. Such is a consequence of an Awakening played to its logical conclusion. GIs were satisfied that they had created a permanent prosperity; the Silent had believed that they had made the world just; the Boomers had discovered the interior, and even Thirteenth losers believed that there was nothing wrong with them. Cheap electronics allowed the splintering of society, as every kid could have his own TV set and perhaps a VCR and a video game console. By the 1990s computers were becoming commonplace -- and those were not operated for collective ends. People could be very private about personal lives -- perhaps excessively private.

Boom causes were not attracting youth. Generation X adopted Ronald Reagan's economics for its convenience while rejecting the community and organization that allowed GI prosperity to work well. Everyone was out for himself.

Crime was unusually high during this time. Crack cocaine was fueling social disintegration and violence in inner cities, and turning crack sellers into wealthy people living the good life. With crime making many Americans uneasy, the personal safety (and later the child safety) movement would explode. Americans felt denormed, more liked a tossed salad than a melting pot. Action movies were very large in the box office. This, and the youth culture valued the purely physical, the athletic, which would by the 1990s would be classified as and pushed to the x-treme. People felt that The space shuttle Challenger has exploded just two years earlier, beginning a downslide from the more glorious 1960s and 1970s years. This era seemed to take the 1950s, and to invert it.

Much so. A family of four could be living in four different worlds and get away with it. People who didn't get what they wanted in accordance with what norms allowed often saw no cause to respect those norms. That implies crime. Drugs, robberies, rapes -- those are the result of people feeling entitled to what was no longer easily available for some.

Note well that America had cast off much of the manufacturing activity -- activity that often involved strong unions that created some sense of community among workers -- for service and information work that either paid badly (fast food, retailing) without creating solidarity among workers or else was inaccessible to the people who used to form the middle-income proletariat in America: people who made good incomes with hard work even if they had little education and few social graces.

In 2008, Americans felt caught up in a perfect storm. The year began with the historic and intense battle between the first ever woman and first ever black person for presidency. That primary had dominated politics during the first half of 2008. The presidential contest of 2008 was dominated by worldly and secular issues rather than the wedge politics of the prior 40 years. The fight is to replace Bush, who has endured a stormy presidency, with ups (immediately after 9/11 in 2001) and downs (immediately after Hurricane Katrina in 2005), and is very unpopular with the public. ...

The details unfold a little more every day. We are in a Crisis Era, and events unfold with unexpected rapidity. People with the wrong connections, who have been getting away with shoddy behavior, often find themselves in utter disgrace. International power shifts suddenly, and political changes often realign the world. Assumptions of "normality" literally blow up on the complacent. Much makes little sense to those who expect to extrapolate "business as usual" as the norm for all ages.

Next month, a BBC2 television series The American Future: A History will premier and a book of the same title will be published. He makes the case that the US is at a historic moment.

The 2008 US Presidential election is unique in many ways. Voters are feeling uncertain about military outcomes and anxious about sudden shaky prosperity, leading to a weakened faith in governance that has not been felt this painfully since Watergate.

In its desire for national regeneration, the voting public has been going to the polls in numbers not seen for many generations. In a country whose mission is always to reinvent everything, history is rarely treated as a living, breathing thing – but certainly there are strong grounds for calling this election “historic”.

Historian Simon Schama takes the long perspective, looking at four of the critical issues facing the country: war, moral fervour, immigration and the increasingly difficult relationship between expectations of prosperity and the reality of economic and environmental limits. In his travels through America, past and present, Schama aims to reveal the big picture at a critical moment of choice – for the United States, and for the world.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

Next month, a BBC2 television series The American Future: A History will premier and a book of the same title will be published. He makes the case that the US is at a historic moment...

Sure, if the "minority" seeking political power happens to be a card-carrying BIG GOVERNMENT-LOVING "Progressive"

Oops, "women" of the conservative persuasion don't make for "a historic moment," do they? I mean, if the gal resembles Adolph Hilter, she ain't really a "minority" at all. She's a true Red American, something less than a "woman". Indeed, she's something less than even human, and thus must be destroyed at all costs.

Up yers, Mr Reed! You and yours are phony up on side and down the other. Stick it, pal! May you rot on the utterly corrupt ideological vine you've attached yourself to.

Originally Posted by zilch

<snip>

May you rot on the utterly corrupt ideological vine you've attached yourself to.

I find this outrageously ironic coming from a GOP operative. Some people's arrogance knows no bounds.

By the way zilch, you owe Mr Reed an apology. His post was completely non-partisan, merely quoting the BBC stating that this election is historic, a fact with which no one can argue.

Bri2k

Originally Posted by Bri2k

I find this outrageously ironic coming from a GOP operative. Some people have stones big enough to take down buildings.

By the way zilch, you owe Mr Reed an apology. His post was completely non-partisan, merely quoting the BBC stating this election is historic. Seems eight years of having it all have turned you into a bitter, shriveled little person.

Bri2k

Nah... he was bitter and shriveled even back when Clinton was President! But at least back then he did post some pretty insightful comments.

Originally Posted by Bri2k

I find this outrageously ironic coming from a GOP operative. Some people have stones big enough to take down buildings.

By the way zilch, you owe Mr Reed an apology. His post was completely non-partisan, merely quoting the BBC stating this election is historic. Seems eight years of having it all have turned you into a bitter, shriveled little person.

Bri2k

You can go here, if you dare, to catch a brief glimpse at the utterly detestable ideology you and Mr. Reed have embraced. Simply put, you all long to display privation at every turn. It is what you thrive on. You feed on media displays of human misery, as a means to increase your political power.

I utterly despise this sick ideology you've embraced. And I aim to toss as much sunshine upon your false political propaganda as I possibly can, in sincere hopes you all rot right along with the pure gutless shit you people thrive on.

No apology from me will be forthcoming, lady.

Originally Posted by zilch

You can go here, if you dare, to catch a brief glimpse at the utterly detestable ideology you and Mr. Reed have embraced. Simply put, you all long to display privation at every turn. It is what you thrive on. You feed on media displays of human misery, as a means to increase your political power.

I utterly despise this sick ideology you've embraced. And I aim to toss as much sunshine upon your false political propaganda as I possibly can, in sincere hopes you all rot right along with the pure gutless shit you people thrive on.

No apology from me will be forthcoming, lady.

Zilch, you really are a miserable coward. I doubt you'd be this openly contemptuous and hostile if there weren't a keyboard and modem between you and the objects of your disdain.

I am more than a little upset that, starting with Zilch's post above, this conversation has turned into an insult-fueled train wreck.

I believe Zilch was wrong to throw the "up yers" and "stick it" taunts above. But several of the immediate responses also attacked Zilch inappropriately.

I will be sending notes to everyone involved above in the hopes they will edit their own words. If not, I will need to take action. As I wrote in the proposed forum rules:

We encourage people who wish to post on the Fourth Turning Forums should strive to keep all commentary civil and courteous. It is not acceptable to post any messages that are hateful...

Far too many of the recent posts on this topic have been uncivil and discourteous. It's time to pull back everyone.

Originally Posted by webmaster

I am more than a little upset that, starting with Zilch's post above, this conversation has turned into an insult-fueled train wreck.

I believe Zilch was wrong to throw the "up yers" and "stick it" taunts above. But several of the immediate responses also attacked Zilch inappropriately.

I will be sending notes to everyone involved above in the hopes they will edit their own words. If not, I will need to take action. As I wrote in the proposed forum rules:



Far too many of the recent posts on this topic have been uncivil and discourteous. It's time to pull back everyone.

I totally apologize, and you certainly may pull my post for incivility.

zilch is on my iggy list, so I can't respond fully to him. That seems all for the better.

I think that one way of looking at a 3T is to see it as a time in which people test the limits of what they can get away with. Much risky behavior that people wouldn't dream of doing in a 1T because it has been discredited or in a 2T because it is hollow gives rich rewards. Leverage seems like a good way of making money off the wealth of people more cautious about holding onto assets. Borrow at 5% and get a 15% rate of return -- and all that keeps one from getting spectacularly wealth is the limits on one's ability to schmooze. But note well that as the more ruthless and brazen speculators get more successful they also drive up the cost of borrowing. Low-yield, long tern investments, often the ones that do the most good, become poor financial assets. Maintenance of infrastructure, never a glamorous activity but one that one neglects at the cost of physical capital, is a prime example of the sort of activity that fades badly in a 3T. Does anyone question the worth of maintenance?

Add to this -- private, highly-speculative investments crowd out public investment which as a rule depends on low real interest rates and willing taxpayers. Such an activity as elementary education that has a slow social payoff becomes unglamorous. Guess what happens to a society that underfunds elementary education! Precisely: it ends up with lots of kids who must get remedial education late in their public school careers. It also ends up with lots of high-school dropouts ill-prepared for any but the most menial of work. Government might spend big, but largely on behalf of well-connected people who exploit a pliant right-wing government. Business subsidies and high-profit contracts (including to the military-industrial complex) flourish.

As opportunities for investments that do good disappear, the confidence artists find manias to exploit. They find some economic banality such as "The Good Lord isn't making any more real estate" or "you will never get rich with your toil, so you might as well invest in business opportunities that you don't understand" and turns such stuff into sales pitches. To give an idea of how low they can go -- look at all the 419 schemes; you have likely gotten a few in your e-mail in-box. I hope that none of you has fallen for the missing heir, money laundering (you send money to someone connected to former Nigerian leadership who needs some seed money to get the proceeds of his corrupt dealings that thenew government won't let him have), or "your account is about to be closed and forfeited unless you contact us (and give us account information that lets the scammer forfeit the account from your bank). Government offers cheap credit to well-connected people who finance hare-brained schemes -- in part because scammers and schemers have greased the right palms.

People might be in a libertarian mood, but they end up with crony capitalism. So were the 1920s, and so is this one. The Teapot Dome and Enrob Corporation may have been very different... but they were about eighty years apart.

Government late in a 3T is often elected for its promises to do little. It usually underperforms expectations. If it can't create genuine prosperity, it can at least foster the illusion of prosperity through easy credit. But I look at the real estate boom and think of all the McMansions: the money expended upon them might have created some construction and landscaping jobs... but somehow I think that we would have done far better as a society to have invested in unglamorous plant and equipment that would have allowed us to make more of the things that we now import.

The 4T begins when people recognize the 3T as the loathsome failure that it is.

Originally Posted by Arkham '80

Zilch, you really are a miserable coward. I doubt you'd be this openly contemptuous and hostile if there weren't a keyboard and modem between you and the objects of your disdain.

zilch used the strawman argument... that if you disagree with him you are associated with some malign ideology. For example, the segregationists of the early 1960s claimed that anyone who wanted to give voting rights to blacks while toppling white supremacy was a communist taking orders from Moscow.

I find it hard to believe that any liberal wants a hurricane to do grievous human and physical damage to New Orleans even if such can be exploited for political gain. The Katrina tragedy and travesty was one too many for my taste, and it may have soured enough people about George W. Bush to flip a Senate seat or two and a few House races in 2006. Nothing says that political candidates have as much right to exploit the incompetence of opponents as incumbents have the right to exploit legitimate achievements.

Let us all hope and pray that Governor Jindal (R-LA) handles the incoming hurricane far better than did Governor Blanco (D-LA) did. Let us likewise hope and pray that George W. Bush does better this time. It's cheap on my part; Louisiana is likely to go Republican by a large margin this year, thanks in part to the exodus of Katrina victims who tended to vote Democratic. No political gain is worth mass death and destruction.

While I have received no note from Craig regarding my reply to zilch, in the interests of maintaining decorum in the forum, I have edited it.

Bri2k

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

(snip)

Let us all hope and pray that Governor Jindal (R-LA) handles the incoming hurricane far better than did Governor Blanco (D-LA) did. Let us likewise hope and pray that George W. Bush does better this time. It's cheap on my part; Louisiana is likely to go Republican by a large margin this year, thanks in part to the exodus of Katrina victims who tended to vote Democratic. No political gain is worth mass death and destruction.

So far, so good.

I've often wondered if there was any partisanship in the sluggish and bungled federal response to Katrina.

I found it odd that neighboring states with Republican governors got far more timely and effective aid from Washington.

They may sow the wind, but they shall reap the whirlwind.

Bri2k

Originally Posted by Millennial_90'

When met by an issue of great importance and seriousness (e.g. Energy Independence) we can count on our elected leaders to behave with good statesmanship and maturity..... or NOT

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12252.html

A 60s-style protest in the very chambers of Congress? LOL! I love Baby Boomers!

Uh... Sorry, this is not an exclusive Boomer endeavor.

Originally Posted by GOP Gas Kumbaya Session

Rep. Brian Bilbray, Calif. : 1951
Rep. Gus Bilirakis, Fla. : 1963
Rep. Rob Bishop, Utah : 1951
Rep. Roy Blunt, Mo. : 1950
Rep. John Boehner, Mich . : 1949
Rep. John Boozman, Ariz. 1950
Rep. Kevin Brady, Texas : 1955
Rep. Paul Broun, Ga. : 1946
Rep. Henry Brown, S.C. : 1935
Rep. Michael Burgess, Texas : 1950
Rep. Tom Cole, Okla. : 1949
Rep. John Campbell, Calif. : 1955
Rep. Eric Cantor, Va. : 1963
Rep. Shelley Moore Capito, W.V. : 1953
Rep. John Carter, Texas. : 1941
Rep. Mike Conaway, Texas : 1948
Rep. John Culberson, Texas : 1956
Rep. Charlie Dent, Penn. : 1960
Rep. Mary Fallin, Okla. : 1954
Rep. Jeff Fortenberry, Neb. : 1960
Rep. Virginia Foxx, N.C. : 1943
Rep. Louie Gohmert, Texas : 1953
Rep. Wally Herger, Calif. : 1945
Rep. Pete Hoekstra, Mich. : 1953
Rep. Duncan Hunter, Calif. : 1948
Rep. Steve King, Iowa : 1949
Rep. Dan Lungren, Calif. : 1946
Rep. Don Manzullo, Ill. : 1944
Rep. Kevin McCarthy, Calif. : 1965
Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, Mich. 1965
Rep. Devin Nunes, Calif. : 1973
Rep. Mike Pence, Ind. : 1959

I'm not sure about the 2 Silents, but for the rest (including the gaggle of first wave X'ers, some lava lamps and a few lids of weed would have added to the authenticity.