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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 508







Post#12676 at 01-29-2012 03:05 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
However...if, say, my neighborhood needed to band together for our common defense, it might be a good thing if one or two of those types lived among us. We'd have a leg up on those communities with less hardware and expertise. Just sayin'.I keep coming back to Octavia Butler's nightmarish novel, "Parable Of The Sower".
Absolutely! In fact, it would be essential that the "community" arm and train to defend itself. And wouldn't the "politics" be interesting? "Diplomatic relations" with the HOA down the street?
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#12677 at 01-29-2012 08:29 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Indiana Senate panel votes to let schools teach creationism

By Dan Carden dan.carden@nwi.com, (317) 637-9078 | Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:40 pm | (92) Comments



INDIANAPOLIS | An Indiana Senate committee on Wednesday endorsed teaching creationism in public schools, despite pleas from scientists and religious leaders to keep religion out of science classrooms.

Senate Bill 89 allows school corporations to authorize "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life" and specifically mentions "creation science" as one such theory.

State Sen. Scott Schneider, R-Indianapolis, who voted for the measure, said if there are many theories about life's origins, students should be taught all of them.

But John Staver, professor of chemistry and science education at Purdue University, said evolution is the only theory of life that relies on empirical evidence from scientific investigations.

"Creation science is not science," Staver said. "It is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion."

The Rev. Charles Allen, head of Grace Unlimited, an Indianapolis campus ministry, said students would be served better by teaching religion comparatively, rather than trying to "smuggle it in" to a science course.

The Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee nevertheless voted 8-2 to send the legislation to the full Senate.

Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-a...#ixzz1ktfBdqRn
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#12678 at 01-29-2012 10:58 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Indiana Senate panel votes to let schools teach creationismBy Dan Carden dan.carden@nwi.com, (317) 637-9078 | Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:40 pm | (92) CommentsINDIANAPOLIS | An Indiana Senate committee on Wednesday endorsed teaching creationism in public schools, despite pleas from scientists and religious leaders to keep religion out of science classrooms.Senate Bill 89 allows school corporations to authorize "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life" and specifically mentions "creation science" as one such theory.State Sen. Scott Schneider, R-Indianapolis, who voted for the measure, said if there are many theories about life's origins, students should be taught all of them.But John Staver, professor of chemistry and science education at Purdue University, said evolution is the only theory of life that relies on empirical evidence from scientific investigations."Creation science is not science," Staver said. "It is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion."The Rev. Charles Allen, head of Grace Unlimited, an Indianapolis campus ministry, said students would be served better by teaching religion comparatively, rather than trying to "smuggle it in" to a science course.The Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee nevertheless voted 8-2 to send the legislation to the full Senate.Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-a...#ixzz1ktfBdqRn
What is wrong with these people? Isn't it obvious that science, including evolution, is the "software" He uses to run the Universe? "Let there be light!" is exactly what happened at the Big Bang.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#12679 at 01-30-2012 12:02 AM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
What is wrong with these people? Isn't it obvious that science, including evolution, is the "software" He uses to run the Universe? "Let there be light!" is exactly what happened at the Big Bang.
Exactly my POV. Science to me, tells me how God did what did--as much as we can understand at this moment, of course.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#12680 at 01-30-2012 12:13 AM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Exactly my POV. Science to me, tells me how God did what did--as much as we can understand at this moment, of course.

~Chas'88
www.prometheus-music.com/audio/wordgod.mp3
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#12681 at 01-30-2012 10:43 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Exactly my POV. Science to me, tells me how God did what did--as much as we can understand at this moment, of course.~Chas'88
Yep. There is no inherent conflict between "creationism" and science. The former is merely a quick synapsis of the latter...which was all most people 2-4000 yrs ago could grasp, and barely at that.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#12682 at 01-31-2012 03:20 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
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01-31-2012, 03:20 PM #12682
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Senate Bill 89 allows school corporations to authorize "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life" and specifically mentions "creation science" as one such theory.

State Sen. Scott Schneider, R-Indianapolis, who voted for the measure, said if there are many theories about life's origins, students should be taught all of them.
And again ... a TOTAL misunderstanding of the term "theory" as it is used in science.
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#12683 at 01-31-2012 04:20 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
Absolutely! In fact, it would be essential that the "community" arm and train to defend itself. And wouldn't the "politics" be interesting? "Diplomatic relations" with the HOA down the street?
If it get's that bad, I'll leave. If it's that bad everywhere, I doubt any of us will be among the survivors ... nor will human society. The Mad Max hangers-on will deplete themselves quickly enough.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#12684 at 02-12-2012 02:45 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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02-12-2012, 02:45 PM #12684
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To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#12685 at 02-14-2012 06:48 AM by pizal81 [at China joined May 2010 #posts 2,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Indiana Senate panel votes to let schools teach creationism

By Dan Carden dan.carden@nwi.com, (317) 637-9078 | Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:40 pm | (92) Comments



INDIANAPOLIS | An Indiana Senate committee on Wednesday endorsed teaching creationism in public schools, despite pleas from scientists and religious leaders to keep religion out of science classrooms.

Senate Bill 89 allows school corporations to authorize "the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life" and specifically mentions "creation science" as one such theory.

State Sen. Scott Schneider, R-Indianapolis, who voted for the measure, said if there are many theories about life's origins, students should be taught all of them.

But John Staver, professor of chemistry and science education at Purdue University, said evolution is the only theory of life that relies on empirical evidence from scientific investigations.

"Creation science is not science," Staver said. "It is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion."

The Rev. Charles Allen, head of Grace Unlimited, an Indianapolis campus ministry, said students would be served better by teaching religion comparatively, rather than trying to "smuggle it in" to a science course.

The Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee nevertheless voted 8-2 to send the legislation to the full Senate.

Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-a...#ixzz1ktfBdqRn
Science is by definition something that is not religious. God, spirits etc... are not things that science can DIRECTLY prove or disprove. Even as a Christian I don't really like the idea of teaching direct "creation science" as written in the Bible because the Bible is not a science book. Not that it is fairy tales, but it does not describe how the world was created just that God was involved. Now the thing is science can lead to a conclusion that intelligence did design the world if the probability of ending up where we are is too great. (I didn't put that that best way, but I didn't want to explain all of it.) For instance, if the evolution would take to long to happen by chance or even be impossible to happen by chance and there is no reason to belief that things happened like they did out of necessity then science is pointing to intelligence. I think "Intelligent Design Theory" is viable enough to be taught in schools. It does not discriminate between which god or how many and science can point to that conclusion. Now that is different from creation science because that is based on the Bible and it may not even be the proper reading of the Bible many times.

One thing though is that there are many outdated theories being taught in science class to help children learn evolution. Some of the things in text books have been disproven already, but are left in because it make evolution easier to teach. Not that i'm saying evolution isn't true just that there seems to be a bit of a double standard.







Post#12686 at 02-20-2012 05:00 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Left Arrow Data collection arms race fuels privacy fears

Big brother has plenty of cookies.


Quote Originally Posted by msnbc.com
This week's revelations that Google Inc, Twitter and other popular Internet companies have been taking liberties with customer data have prompted criticism from privacy advocates and lawmakers, along with apologies from the companies.

They are the latest in a long line of missteps by large Internet companies that have faced little punishment for pushing privacy boundaries, which are already more expansive than most consumers understand.

Despite all the chatter about online privacy and the regular introductions of proposed data protection laws in Congress, Silicon Valley is in the midst of a veritable arms race of personal data collection that is intensifying

Many innovative companies, most prominently Facebook, base virtually all of their services on the ability to personalize, which requires them to know their users well. Their business models likewise depend to an increasing degree on the ability to target a banner advertisement or other marketing pitch to an individual. Millions of times each day, the right to advertise to a specific user is auctioned off in a fraction of a second by computers talking to one another.

For both the buyers and the sellers of the advertising, the business advantage goes to the participant with the most knowledge, and that race is driving companies like Google to learn as much about its users as Facebook does. policies forbade it. On Friday, a Wall Street Journal report showed that Google was tweaking ads on Apple's Safari Web browser to install tracking cookies which, while commonplace on other browsers, are blocked on Safari unless the user specifically allows them....

...Privacy advocates in the United States say they do not expect big changes anytime soon.

"Trying to pass a bill through Congress that's actually going to safeguard user records, especially when you've got huge advertiser lobbies trying to defang that law, is an incredible challenge," said Rainey Reitman, activism director with the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

That is more likely today than it was 24 hours ago," said Justin Brookman, director of consumer privacy at the Center for Democracy & Technology, which gets funding from foundations and major technology companies.

"But the 'right-to-be forgotten,' erase-button thing, you would see more of a fight."
It's been said before but I'll write it again. Anything and I mean anything that you put on the internet is there forever.
And forever is a very long time.







Post#12687 at 02-20-2012 05:52 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
It's been said before but I'll write it again. Anything and I mean anything that you put on the internet is there forever.
And forever is a very long time.
I bet if any of us *BOOMERS* go missing, the authorities will know where to look first.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#12688 at 10-14-2012 05:18 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Walmart worker strikes go viral, hitting 28 stores in 12 states

Walmart workers who recently went on strike in Illinois and California appear to have inspired some of their fellow big box employees, and now it looks like the movement is going viral.

Labor leaders said Tuesday, just one day before Walmart’s annual shareholder meeting, that workers at 28 stores in 12 states walked out and went on strike to demand the anti-union employer raise wages, improve working conditions and end retaliations against employees who attempt to form unions.

“It’s not a hard sell because these people are tired of being treated the way we are being treated by Walmart,” Evelin Cruz, a striking Walmart worker in the Los Angeles area, told Raw Story on Wednesday. “They disregard us as workers. They think that we are machines, we should have no emotions. We should not have families. We should not have the right to speak. So it’s pretty easy to convince people to get on-board. We need to have more voices around the country being heard with the same message, because it is the same situation in every store and throughout their supply chain.”

The strikes on Tuesday were just the second time in more than a half century that Walmart workers walked off the job at multiple stores, and comes on the heels of strikes at nine Walmart stores in Los Angeles. Those followed a 21-day action put on by Chicago-area Walmart warehouse workers, whose strike recently ended after their employer agreed to a major settlement over allegations of wage theft.

In the wake of these two strikes and the ripple-effect being felt across the company, it suddenly looks like a whole new ballgame for organized labor.

One of the problems striking workers cite is the lack of access to full-time working hours, which prevents them from obtaining even the meager health benefits the company offers. The National Consumer’s League (NCL) told Raw Story that Walmart’s refusal to provide those benefits by exploiting part-time labor leads to a number of spillover costs that taxpayers ultimately pick up.

“Many Walmart workers are dependent on public assistance programs due to their low wages and not having access to full time jobs and being denied benefits because they’re not working the number of hours required to get access to those benefits, or the benefits are just so expensive that on their low wages they just can’t afford them,” NCL Executive Director Sally Greenberg said in an exclusive interview. “Walmart has a record of even working with employees to sign them up for public assistance programs, which we think is really atrocious.”

She added that Walmart’s position of keeping wages low in order to pass the savings along to consumers doesn’t wash either: “Companies that pay a decent wage and provide benefits to their workers help create a middle class that is able to buy the kinds of products that Walmart sells,” Greenberg explained. “It is actually a plus for companies if they provide fair compensation to workers. It’s also better for consumers when they’re able to actually afford housing, healthcare and have access to benefits of the kind we think Walmart, with all its success and profits, ought to be able to pay workers.”

The famously anti-union retailer, which says it employs more than 2.1 million people, raked in $114.3 billion in revenues during just the second fiscal quarter of 2012, earning a profit of $4.02 billion. Berkeley labor economist Sylvia Allegretto found last year that just six of the Walton family’s richest members have a combined wealth greater than the bottom 30 percent of American earners put together.

The problem with increasing labor’s leverage against that kind of wealth is that most Walmart workers don’t realize that U.S. law guarantees their right to strike if their employer has violated labor law, which is why organized workers are calling for an end to illegal “retaliations” against workers who discuss forming unions. Groups on a conference call organized by the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union on Wednesday said they’re planning another round of strikes on Black Friday, the biggest sales day of the year, if their demands aren’t met.

Colby Harris, a striking Walmart worker in Dallas, told Raw Story that the primary obstacle to growing their numbers is fear, plain and simple. “It’s not hard to convince people,” he said, stressing that “there is no such thing as job security” at Walmart. “We all work there together, they see what’s going on. They know that what Walmart does is not right. The thing about it is that those people who haven’t joined are just so fearful.”

“They want to see someone stand up for them first, and that’s what [we] are here for, to show them that you can go on strike and you can go back to work and not face any injustice or termination because you chose to stand up for your rights,” he added. “We can’t be fearful. We have to set the example for other workers.”

Mike Compton, who joined the victorious strike put on by Walmart warehouse workers in Illinois, insisted that Tuesday’s actions were just the beginning. “The fact that we were on strike for 23 days and we are now back in, the workers see now they do have rights,” he said. “We’re planning a ‘Know Your Rights’ class for workers, where we’ll go over the [National Labor Relations Bureau] handbook and teach them that we do have the right to organize and stand up for fair labor practices. We’ve got a lot of work ahead of us, but we’re going to get it done.”

Walmart did not respond to a request for comment on this story.
This would have never happened 10 years ago. We definitely are 4T.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#12689 at 10-15-2012 04:54 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Wallmart sells nothing but junk, and that's how they treat their employees too. Go strikers!
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#12690 at 05-11-2016 12:36 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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05-11-2016, 12:36 PM #12690
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Looking back at this nearly 15 years later, it's apparent that 9/11 and the short hint of unity after it was quite the false start.

Even now, there is an incredible number of people stuck in the 3T and the boring, predictable Red vs Blue fight. One thing about that fight, though, it's more populist now. But it's still a fight between the coastal "urbmons" and the inland places. It is true there was a good amount of similar fighting during the 1930s - America Firsters, Fr. Coughlin et al, contra "The Establishment" / "The New Deal" / etc. But I think it's worse this time around.
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#nevertrump
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