On 2002-02-04 14:40, Croaker'39 wrote:
Stonewall--is this mumbo-jumbo any clearer than my mumbo-jumbo?

Like I said before, Croaker, I'm back out here on the Peninsula now, right around the corner in PA, ready to go search for the Cope's Giant Salamander in the tribs of Barnes Creek and work through all the mumbo-jumbo on the way.

"The Bible is not Jesus. The Bible is not God. The Bible is not the Holy Spirit."

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. --John 1:1


One might consider that the name of Jesus (human nature) appears 700 times in the Gospels and Acts, fewer than 70 times in the Epistles. The name of Christ (divine nature) occurs 60 times in the Gospels and Acts, 240 times in the Epitles and Revelation.

Perhaps, like the seasons of time, a balance is required when beholding the nature of Jesus Christ. :smile:

On the Gospel according to Paul the Apostle and Jesus.

On 2002-02-04 14:40, Croaker'39 wrote:

On 2002-02-04 14:18, Dave'71 wrote:

Paul's writing contains some (maybe lots of) truth, just like your writing contains some (maybe lots of) truth. It is my belief that Jesus' words contained the total truth, but his words are one, two and sometimes even three and more times removed. This is why he gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit contains all the truth, but our hearts must be open to hear it: "For those who have ears to hear." The Bible is not Jesus. The Bible is not God. The Bible is not the Holy Spirit. But the Bible most likely contains some of each of these. The Bible also contains aspects of contemptable Man. To some, the Bible has become an Idol, just like those things that Jesus called on us not to worship.

Stonewall--is this mumbo-jumbo any clearer than my mumbo-jumbo?

Frog man, I would not characterize your views as "mumbo-jumbo." I just cannot understand why you do not simply tune Bible thumpers out as I do. Out of sight, out of mind, man! You are replaying McCarthyism with a new villain. Why can we not allow everyone to say what they want to say and believe what they want to believe while steadfastly enforcing the Constitution so as to ensure that they can never implement their views and impose them on anybody else?

Under the Constitution, communists and pseudo-Christians are free to say whatever they damn well please. AND ALSO under the Constitution, communists and pseudo-Christians are forbidden to implement their respective agendas without first amending same Constitution. Why can't we just return to constitutional government and end all this bovine excrement?

It is very simple and indeed our joke of a pathetically corrupt government maintains with a straight face that the Constitution is still in place. Well, let's hold them to it and make that open sewer on the Potomac, bubbling over with verminous control freaks and racketeers, conform again to the Constitution. The Constitution: it's not just a good idea, it's the Law!

BTW, although Dave loses me at times, I do not see that post of his as mumbo-jumbo. Indeed that is about the finest thing he has written yet. Start with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and throw out anything else in the Bible which contradicts it. That is the logical first step in putting Christ back in Christianity. But of course one must first see value in Jesus and I guess you do not, Croaker. Hey, that's your right! (God, I love that good ole Constitution!)

On 2002-02-04 15:29, Marc S. Lamb wrote:
"The Bible is not Jesus. The Bible is not God. The Bible is not the Holy Spirit."

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. --John 1:1

Are you implying that the Word equals the text within the Bible?

The Word is not "the Words," is it?

The Word is so much more simple than that.

No thanks, Dave, I don?t need missionary assistance just yet. Besides, my wife says I?m an attack frog who can?t be trusted under social circumstances.

Now chatsters, let me show you why young Dave, here, as a good example of what keeps me croaking. Dave is a hopeful biologist, trusting God to fix everything, if we all just say our prayers. HOPE, he says, will see us through.

?We got better things for you,
More than your friends can do,
We got the Holy Ghost in fire
Juuuust to pull through?? (Holy Modal Rounders)

And while all the prayers are being dispatched hopefully, especially those delivered up by good biologists like young Dave, the natural environment is going the way of St. John The Divine?s Book of Revelation, which I have read with considerable anguish.

This is the crux of my tedious lamentations: Why does a good biologist like Dave resort to HOPE in the face of Wilson?s Bottleneck? My God! All good biologists ought to be screaming their squishy heads off over what is REALLY coming! It has everything to do with the Ts, more than we want to know. But who?s taking about it?. So let?s just keep on hoping?

I read somewhere that for every single prayer issued by Christian, another amphibian species goes extinct in the Amazon, and two for every Muslim prayer. Frogs everywhere are pissed. I read that at a checkout stand, where I get most of my religious news.

On 2002-02-04 16:39, Croaker'39 wrote:

(Holy Modal Rounders)

Sounds like a cricket team from a college at Oxford.

Marc wrote:

Croaker, I know you lived through that momentous time, when America decided she had had enough with trusting that the US government was up to the task of running everyone's life. Be it LBJ's left, or Nixon's right.

Now tell me, Croaker, how are we to come around to fixin' this "Wilson?s Bottleneck," without returning to those good old days that your generation loathed so much, huh?

Come on, Croaker; ex-hippie, leftest, down with the government, up with the people and all that other crap that driveled out of Bezerkly, Columbia, and other such bastians of the left?

Or was it really all just a joke in order to save your own skin, huh?

But, now it's "Wilson?s Bottleneck" that changes everything, right? Well I say better bottleneckin' than dead!

Put that in your little church and smoke it!

Peace, bro!

Croaker was a hippie? A little old, isn't he? He must have been a beatnik!

On 2002-02-04 16:39, Croaker'39 wrote:

No thanks, Dave, I don?t need missionary assistance just yet. Besides, my wife says I?m an attack frog who can?t be trusted under social circumstances.

Now chatsters, let me show you why young Dave, here, as a good example of what keeps me croaking. Dave is a hopeful biologist, trusting God to fix everything, if we all just say our prayers. HOPE, he says, will see us through.

?We got better things for you,
More than your friends can do,
We got the Holy Ghost in fire
Juuuust to pull through?? (Holy Modal Rounders)

And while all the prayers are being dispatched hopefully, especially those delivered up by good biologists like young Dave, the natural environment is going the way of St. John The Divine?s Book of Revelation, which I have read with considerable anguish.

This is the crux of my tedious lamentations: Why does a good biologist like Dave resort to HOPE in the face of Wilson?s Bottleneck? My God! All good biologists ought to be screaming their squishy heads off over what is REALLY coming! It has everything to do with the Ts, more than we want to know. But who?s taking about it?. So let?s just keep on hoping?

I read somewhere that for every single prayer issued by Christian, another amphibian species goes extinct in the Amazon, and two for every Muslim prayer. Frogs everywhere are pissed. I read that at a checkout stand, where I get most of my religious news.

Simply put, Croaker, things do not work like standard science thinks it does, because science can not nor will not approach things that are not quantifiable. Love is not quantifiable. Freewill is not quantifiable, neither are consciousness and fear. But each of these things have a role within our world.
The default mode of the human is what creates the doomsday (entropic) perspective of science. But the default mode is not the truth.

In regards to you AND your lovely amphibian cohorts around the world, think convergent evolution. I consider convergent evolution as the biological version of the resurrection. Specific morphologies (types) tend to fill the niche which is above it. (E.g. when you blow up a balloon, it will always form a sphere.) Therefore, even if the Olympic Torrent Salamander goes extinct, the Van Dykes may be able to re-evolve into the same morphology as what the Olympic Torrent exists as today. Because the Olympic's Torrent's morphology was perfect under a specific set of conditions. It's all about convergence. Even after you die, Croaker, there may be a time in which the peak Croaker will re-evolve into the perfect Croaker morphology. But it is my belief that only the "good" will remain. Evolution's tendency is a final peak (read Teilliard de Chardin's THE PHENOMENA OF MAN) rather than an endless wave that approaches a constantly retreating infinity.

I am not saying that we should let these species die and these sad happenings happen. But all that is happening is a process that must occurr for certain things to be extinguished for once and for all.

Sometimes you must let another get burned from a fire in order for that person to truly learn. After he is burned, the skin heals. Yes, there is a scar, but the scar teaches the person not to do it next time

Add me to the fellowship of the C.A.C.

And where do we line up to start working on that "Wilson's Bottleneck?"

Croaker was a hippie? Of course he was! Ever heard of Abbie "Yippie" Hoffman, Class of 56?

Otherwise, I deny that I posted what you said I posted, Mr. Patton, coz I deleted it. :smile:




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc S. Lamb on 2002-02-04 19:40 ]</font>

That's a nice reply, Dave, and I'll think upon it. We have a huge problem, because one of us has more feathers than the other, and he's flying a little higher. My feathers are un-evolved, of course. I don't hit those lofty heights. I just can't feel the rapture. All I can see or feel are cyclical and aperiodic models of Princess Summerfall Winterspring. Bless her heart!

We have a big fluff factor that stands in the scientific way. I don't think everyone should believe as I do, but I'll play the foolish Chicken Little instead of gallant Gray Champion if my froggie friends are in trouble.

Come join my Church-No-Church; it's located at the tip of Point-No-Point.

On 2002-02-04 19:25, cbailey wrote:
Add me to the fellowship of the C.A.C.

And where do we line up to start working on that "Wilson's Bottleneck?"

Yes, I'd like to sign up to narrow it down as well.

On 2002-02-04 19:38, Marc S. Lamb wrote:


Croaker was a hippie? Of course he was! Ever heard of Abbie "Yippie" Hoffman, Class of 56?

Otherwise, I deny that I posted what you said I posted, Mr. Patton, coz I deleted it. :smile:

That would explain why the damn thing did not come up when I hit "quote." I actually had to copy it from the thread.
No shame in calling Croaker a hippie, is there?

Nah, I just vented... then opted out. :smile:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. --John 1:1


Dave wonders,
"Are you implying that the Word equals the text within the Bible? The Word is not 'the Words,' is it?"

Dave, how would you have heard the "Greatest Story Ever Told," had someone not told it to you? And how was it they told it to you, if not for "words"?

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth. --John 4:24

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. --Timothy 3:16

On 2002-02-04 19:39, Croaker'39 wrote:
All I can see or feel are cyclical and aperiodic models of Princess Summerfall Winterspring.

Exactly! I couldn't have said it better myself, Croaker. The "peak" that I was referring to is that one located at the tip-top of the most-macro bell curve.

Come join my Church-No-Church

Again! I agree!!! I think we're coming to a convergence of our own, Croaker. IMHO, Christianity is beyond religion.

On 2002-02-04 20:48, Marc S. Lamb wrote:
Dave wonders,
"Are you implying that the Word equals the text within the Bible? The Word is not 'the Words,' is it?"

Dave, how would you have heard the "Greatest Story Ever Told," had someone not told it to you? And how was it they told it to you, if not for "words"?

The "Greatest Story Ever Told" came from Jesus to us through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit may be passed through paper, but it best passed from heart to heart. IMHO, the Scriptures would have stayed closer to the Truth if they were kept as a spoken story. But it really doesn't matter that much because the Bible is more than adequate.

Even still, I believe that "the Word" is one rather than a whole compilation of varied scriptures. The Word is Love. "For God so Loved the world..."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dave'71 on 2002-02-04 22:57 ]</font>

Ask not for whom the frog croaks. He croaks for thee.

On 2002-02-06 05:43, Croaker'39 wrote:

Ask not for whom the frog croaks. He croaks for thee.

Yeah, and no frog is an island.

Bingo with that! But people who live inside stone walls shouldn't throw glass.

On 2002-02-07 07:06, Croaker'39 wrote:

Bingo with that! But people who live inside stone walls shouldn't throw glass.

Frog man, that is indeed some funky formaldehyde you are using.

Beefeater martinis and a kiss from the Princess never did a frog any harm.

Would a iced-down Pabst or a Pearl and a kiss from an old broad like, say, oh, an Angie or a Raquel, be okay, too, Croaker?

:wink:

Babs?Those princesses are way out of my league, but I?ll be peeping in at Peggy Flemming soon, thanks to Joseph Smith and the Mormon Olympics.

On 2002-02-08 05:55, Croaker'39 wrote:

Babs?Those princesses are way out of my league, but I?ll be peeping in at Peggy Flemming soon, thanks to Joseph Smith and the Mormon Olympics.

Oh, yeah, I forgot about Peggy.... do you remember her in "Snow White and the Three Stooges" ???? :smile: