On 2001-10-22 11:30, Jenny Genser wrote:
In 1990, I tested as INTJ

In 2000, I tested as ISTJ.

There are now four ISTJ's on this group, Lis, Me, Kiff '61 and Jenny :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tristan Jones on 2001-10-22 15:05 ]</font>

Hmmmm. Does this mean we should start a club? :wink: Or do we already have a .org like Robert does?

I am an INFJ, born 1972.

I read in an MTBI book that although INFJ, INTJ, INTP, and INFP are only about 5-10% of the population, they are a majority at MTBI workshops, because they are interested in cultivating theories about the world.

That makes sense with T4T theory as well!

OK, Robert, seeing as we are both INTPs, I prepared a detailed response that only a fellow INTP could enjoy. All other types feel free to read this before bedtime in lieu of taking Nyquil:

Yay!! Another INTP!! :grin:

Actually, the percentages don't show what is dominant. They only show you the degree by which you harber that preference. So even if my 'T' turned out to be 51, I would still be an INTP.

The problem is that if someone is that close to the T-F line, then he could easily take the test on another day, answer one question differently, and come out INFP, all things being equal. And as INTPs are T-dominant, meaning that F is their fourth function which does not really develop until late in life, it is highly unlikely that an INTP would ever accidentally come out with F over T in the test even on a bad day. It is actually more likely that S will beat N on an odd day since N is the secondary and less relied upon function and in closer proportion to S, its opposite.

So that means that even though my 'T' is only 59, my Ti is still very dominant.

Your T is very dominant over your F. However your N is many times more dominant over your S. You favor T over F by a 3 to 2 ratio, but you favor N over S by a 20 to 1 ratio. This is all consistent with the following order of functions:

N
T
F
S

This ordering implies that you are either an ENTP or an INTJ. Because you scored 100% I, it looks like INTJ. I'm not saying that you are! But the way you answered the questions was consistent with one.

Look at it one other way: Again you score T:F as 3:2 and N:S as 20:1 Try to reconcile those ratios into the INTP ordering of T-N-S-F. I do not think it can be done. You would get either T-N-F-S or T-F-N-S and neither one makes sense.

An INTP with 100% N and 51% T will still have a Ti that dominates his/her thinking.

I understand what you are saying but it contradicts what I studied and I do not think it makes sense. An INTP with just 51% T really cannot decide if he is more of a thinker or a feeler -- and he might well turn out a feeler if he took the test again on another day and answered one question differently. As T is the dominant function of an INTP, this confusion should really never exist, i.e. every INTP knows that he is a thinker and will never score as a feeler. Ergo, someone who scores just 51% T is not T-dominant and not an INTP. In fact they will undoubtedly be a dominant perceiver (N or S) rather than a dominant judger (T or F).

Again, the numbers do now show which ones are dominant...not by a long shot. Instead, they show the degree of the scale. For instance, the SN scale. My 95% N only says that I prefer my intuition to my sensing on a more extreme scale. So that means that each letter is totally independent from each other when using the xxxx designation to determine your type.

Fair enough but, again, try to reconcile those ratios with INTP ordering, T-N-S-F. I do not think it can be done. You have a contradiction.

Do I have any doubt about my INTP type? Absolutely not. The descriptions at PersonalityPage.Com and INTP.org are amazingly exact in their description of my type.

There you go! That is the surest test of all.

INTJs are very related to INTJs, but from my studies, the second type that would best describe me is INFP.

Note that your second best type, INFP, uses an INTP's opposite dominant. This is again consistent with you being a dominant-N and less certain of your secondary function as T or F. You have me scratching my head again!

I am someone who is usually caught in my own thoughts. My Ti is very dominant over my other preferences. I'm the type of person who will plan to walk to the library. When I leave my house, I will just be in deep thought. Then all of a sudden, I will be at the library, and not remember ever walking there. :lol:

If I remember correctly, what you just described is Ne, not Ti. It is Ne-dominants like ENTPs who might look spaced out at times and perhaps be confused as to where they are (INTPs to a lesser extent). Remember how I said that your ordering of functions was consistent with either ENTP or INTJ? Now I am thinking that you are an ENTP! But how on earth could an ENTP ever score 100% I? You confound me, Robert!

I'll tell you one little secret which I came across in some research (assuming that you have not seen it). There are detailed tests out there which actually assess the strengths of all eight functions (Ne, Ni, Te, Ti, Fe, etc.), order them for you, and more clearly pinpoint your true type. INTPs produce a unique result in these tests. They demonstrate strength in Fi which mirrors their Fe. In other words, they show a result something like this:

Ti|__
__|Ne
Si|__
Fi|Fe

If I remember correctly, no other type shows anything similar as they generally follow along from function 5 to 8 mirroring their first four functions in the opposite attitude. If you were to find such tests (and maybe you have), and you produced this unique result, then there would be absolutely no doubt that you are an INTP. I stated earlier that the basic tests initially showed me edging over the line toward E (and ENTP) and this did not make sense. It was finally this sort of detailed test which sealed it that I am in fact an INTP. The initial exaggerated E had more to do with my lifestyle at the time and I have tested INTP subsequently.

But...in the end, if you read all the descriptions, and you have no doubt that you are an INTP, then that is probably your answer. You may be using your Ne to an exaggerated degree in your current environment, hence your atypical scores. But you sure sound like an ENTP who does not know that he is an extrovert! And I do not know how that is possible. I guess you have to be an INTP after all.

So, while you ISTPs have your club of four, there are now 3 of us "exceedingly rare" INFJs on this board: Moi, Tim Walker, and Anne '72. Unless I forgot someone.

I always felt like such a square peg everywhere else.

I'm an INFP, except for when I'm an ENFP. I seem to slide back and forth on the I/E continuem every time I take the test.

born, 1968

On 2001-10-22 17:15, Stonewall Patton wrote:
OK, Robert, seeing as we are both INTPs, I prepared a detailed response that only a fellow INTP could enjoy. All other types feel free to read this before bedtime in lieu of taking Nyquil:
....
The problem is that if someone is that close to the T-F line, then he could easily take the test on another day, answer one question differently, and come out INFP, all things being equal. And as INTPs are T-dominant, meaning that F is their fourth function which does not really develop until late in life, it is highly unlikely that an INTP would ever accidentally come out with F over T in the test even on a bad day. It is actually more likely that S will beat N on an odd day since N is the secondary and less relied upon function and in closer proportion to S, its opposite.

Well, no matter how many times I've taken the test, I never came out as an INFP. Basically, my main body of research is David Keirsey's Please Understand Me II. I agree with you that it is easier to switch from S to N from time to time. But since I am on the extreme N scale, that will never happen to me. According to Keirsey, everyone does a bit of the other. On average, someone with an N preference will be introspective only 85% of the time, while S will be observant 85% of the time. As extreme as my introspective side is, I might occasionally exercise S. But then again, that makes sense because the third function of an INTP is Introverted Sensing. For someone with more borderline S or N, they will probably occasionally switch to the other side on tests. But for those who are extreme, that is unlikely to happen. For the INTP, Ne is secondary while Si is third. But for an extreme N like me, Ne very quickly, easily, and powerfully crushes the Si under its enormous weight.

Your T is very dominant over your F. However your N is many times more dominant over your S. You favor T over F by a 3 to 2 ratio, but you favor N over S by a 20 to 1 ratio. This is all consistent with the following order of functions:

N
T
F
S

This ordering implies that you are either an ENTP or an INTJ. Because you scored 100% I, it looks like INTJ. I'm not saying that you are! But the way you answered the questions was consistent with one.

Look at it one other way: Again you score T:F as 3:2 and N:S as 20:1 Try to reconcile those ratios into the INTP ordering of T-N-S-F. I do not think it can be done. You would get either T-N-F-S or T-F-N-S and neither one makes sense.

I see.

I understand what you are saying but it contradicts what I studied and I do not think it makes sense. An INTP with just 51% T really cannot decide if he is more of a thinker or a feeler -- and he might well turn out a feeler if he took the test again on another day and answered one question differently. As T is the dominant function of an INTP, this confusion should really never exist, i.e. every INTP knows that he is a thinker and will never score as a feeler. Ergo, someone who scores just 51% T is not T-dominant and not an INTP. In fact they will undoubtedly be a dominant perceiver (N or S) rather than a dominant judger (T or F).

Interesting. Makes a lot of sense. If an INTP can't really decide whether or not he is an F or T, then that would make for a lot of confusion. Then the question would be, can someone switch from Ti to Fi, as their dominant function, and from Fe to Te as their inferior function? Doesn't seem likely. In any case, even if it is possible, then we would measure it as Ti/Fi for te dominant function and Fe/Te for the inferior function. I haven't researched enough to know it is possible. But if so, then my dominant function is actually (T59|F41)i while my inferior function would be (F41/T59)e. This is an interesting matter to look into.

Fair enough but, again, try to reconcile those ratios with INTP ordering, T-N-S-F. I do not think it can be done. You have a contradiction.

SN and TF are totally independent from each other. But now let's add another dimension to this. Sure, I scored 95N and 59T, but the question is, how much weight does this carry? What are the sizes of the SN and TF scale? For an INTP, INFP, ISTP, or ISFP, the TF will always take predecence over it SN. Basically, SN and TF is nothing but a scale. T and F are not entities unto themselves. Rather, they are more like a spectrum. From this, I gather that the TF scale turns out to be much larger than SN for these individuals. In this case, SN has no effect on TF. Which has more gravity in the individual? For an ENTP, the Ne has Ti on a lease. But for an INTP, the Ti is a black hole, and Ne is a star that ventured too close. So in order for this to still be logicall consistent, we need to look at the preferences in the view of a spectrum, not types onto themselves. SN is measured in a scale. This means that if you scored 95N, then you are 5S. Both still add to 100. So when we say 95N, we are measuring not magnitude, but instead, we are measuring percentage. So 55N carries as much weight as 95N.

Note that your second best type, INFP, uses an INTP's opposite dominant. This is again consistent with you being a dominant-N and less certain of your secondary function as T or F. You have me scratching my head again!

I am someone who is usually caught in my own thoughts. My Ti is very dominant over my other preferences. I'm the type of person who will plan to walk to the library. When I leave my house, I will just be in deep thought. Then all of a sudden, I will be at the library, and not remember ever walking there. :lol:

If I remember correctly, what you just described is Ne, not Ti. It is Ne-dominants like ENTPs who might look spaced out at times and perhaps be confused as to where they are (INTPs to a lesser extent). Remember how I said that your ordering of functions was consistent with either ENTP or INTJ? Now I am thinking that you are an ENTP! But how on earth could an ENTP ever score 100% I? You confound me, Robert!

Well, I do have an overdeveloped Ne. In fact, circumstances in life probably forced me to develop my Ne more. But I think that this is possible. Your first function does not describe what you do most of the time. It defines which is the most dominant. Since I am an extreme Ne, I use it in place of S. Also, since Si is introverted, it doesn't do much help. And remember that Ne is extraverted. This means that when interacting with the outside world, I will always use Ne, unless something happens and Ti squashes Ne. In fact, when I travel, I am often exercising my Ti, but since it is introverted, it is always hidden from view. In fact, when reading this message, I am exercising my Ne, but my Ti is stepping in to filter an analyze what happened. So when I am traveling, and not aware of it, it is because my Ti is totally occupied with something else, and is blocking information gathered by the Ne from reaching it and interrupting it. If someone had Se instead of Ne as their secondary type, then they would be an ISTP, to state the obvious. And because of this, they would be unable to live inside their heads, as they would need their senses to scan the outside world. But if you have a very strong Ne, then you can afford to do that. Intuition is largely subconscious. So your N can work without you being aware of it. In fact, a very strong N is what creates the "absent-minded professor" type. When we look at it this way, it seems that Einstein, who was undoubtedly an INTP, most likely had a very powerful N. In an INTP, Ne supports Ti, while in an ENTP, Ti supports Ne. In the case of an INTP, the Ne works subconsciously to handle the outside world. In this way, it supports Ti by channeling all of our conscious energy into thoughts in your mind. What this does is to help keep your thoughts pure. It helps keep your thoughts very abstract, and shields concrete information from polluting your thought process, unless your Ti demands input from the outside world. To me, this seems consistent because the entire point of an INTP is to produce thought. They produce logical ideas (whereas INFPs produce spiritual ideas). So yes, what I described to you was Ne, but it is still consistent because it is heavily supporting and guarding Ti.

I'll tell you one little secret which I came across in some research (assuming that you have not seen it). There are detailed tests out there which actually assess the strengths of all eight functions (Ne, Ni, Te, Ti, Fe, etc.), order them for you, and more clearly pinpoint your true type. INTPs produce a unique result in these tests. They demonstrate strength in Fi which mirrors their Fe. In other words, they show a result something like this:

Ti|__
__|Ne
Si|__
Fi|Fe

If I remember correctly, no other type shows anything similar as they generally follow along from function 5 to 8 mirroring their first four functions in the opposite attitude. If you were to find such tests (and maybe you have), and you produced this unique result, then there would be absolutely no doubt that you are an INTP. I stated earlier that the basic tests initially showed me edging over the line toward E (and ENTP) and this did not make sense. It was finally this sort of detailed test which sealed it that I am in fact an INTP. The initial exaggerated E had more to do with my lifestyle at the time and I have tested INTP subsequently.

Maybe I need to take a test from a professional. This is interesting.

But...in the end, if you read all the descriptions, and you have no doubt that you are an INTP, then that is probably your answer. You may be using your Ne to an exaggerated degree in your current environment, hence your atypical scores. But you sure sound like an ENTP who does not know that he is an extrovert! And I do not know how that is possible. I guess you have to be an INTP after all.

Heh. Every once in a while, I might jump out of my shell and behave like an extravert. But this is severely draining, and I have to jump back to INTP to recharge.

On 2001-10-22 15:53, Lis '54 wrote:
Hmmmm. Does this mean we should start a club? :wink: Or do we already have a .org like Robert does?

I have searched the Net ISTJ's do not have a .org, however there is a Yahoo Club on ISTJ's
here: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/istjopen . INTP's are more involded with the internet than ISTJ's, ISTJ's make about 6% of the general population and their proporation is reflected on this board. INTP's being only 1% of general population are over-repsentated on this board.

I just took the quick test, and I think I'm an INTP as well. This description fits me pretty well:

People of this type tend to be: quiet, independent, and private; logical and unemotional; creative, ingenious, and innovative, global thinkers; curious and driven to increase their competence; casual, and adaptive; nonconforming and unpredictable.

except the the last part. I've always felt uncomfortable if I stood out in any way. But the descriptions for ISTP, INTJ, and ISTJ (to vary the letters I wasn't as sure about) sounded less like me.

Well, now I know why I don't exactly fit in here! I just took the quick quiz and I am an ESFJ (I know I took a longer one years ago and I am pretty sure it came out the same way), plus the description sounds just like me:

Life as an ESFJ
(Extravert, Sensor, Feeler, Judger)

People of this type tend to be: active, friendly, and energetic; outgoing, affectionate, and talkative; concerned about others and careful to be polite and cooperative; realistic, literal, and conscientious; highly sensitive and easily hurt; organized, responsible, and conventional.

The most important thing to ESFJs is their relationships and helping people in real, and practical ways.

On 2001-10-23 11:39, allybear '62 wrote:
Well, now I know why I don't exactly fit in here! I just took the quick quiz and I am an ESFJ (I know I took a longer one years ago and I am pretty sure it came out the same way), plus the description sounds just like me:

Life as an ESFJ
(Extravert, Sensor, Feeler, Judger)

People of this type tend to be: active, friendly, and energetic; outgoing, affectionate, and talkative; concerned about others and careful to be polite and cooperative; realistic, literal, and conscientious; highly sensitive and easily hurt; organized, responsible, and conventional.

The most important thing to ESFJs is their relationships and helping people in real, and practical ways.

Now it gets more interesting, since we have the total opposite of the type who makes up the plurality of 4Ters here. ESFJs tend to make up about 13% of the population, while INTPs make up only 1%. Now, the stakes are reversed. YOU are in the minority :lol: (evil laughter)

Because of this, you will be under analysis by us INTPs. :smile:

Just for reference, here is a comparison of the components of ESFJ as opposed to INTP.

INTP
Ti, Ne, Si, Fe
ESFJ
Fe, Si, Ne, Ti.

Interesting!!!

Definate NTJ. Go back and forth as to E or I. Birthyear: 1967.

On 2001-10-23 11:15, jeffw wrote:
I just took the quick test, and I think I'm an INTP as well.

Another one??? Are there any of us left in America who are not on this board?

This description fits me pretty well:

People of this type tend to be: quiet, independent, and private; logical and unemotional; creative, ingenious, and innovative, global thinkers; curious and driven to increase their competence; casual, and adaptive; nonconforming and unpredictable.

except the the last part. I've always felt uncomfortable if I stood out in any way.

Those descriptions do not always hit the nail on the head. Noncomforming carries the connotation of an artist who actively seeks to be different and necessarily draws attention to himself/herself. I suspect aconformist (if there is such a word) is a better description of an INTP. I do what I do and if it conforms, fine. If it does not, that's fine too. Actively conforming or not conforming plays no part in my calculations with respect to anything. I only seek not to draw undue attention to myself in material ways as such attention may hamper my ability to communicate my ideas to someone else. To put it in simpler terms, I want someone's attention focused on what I am saying, not on what I am wearing or how my hair is cut. Therefore I ensure that I am neither conspicuously out of style nor on the cutting edge of current style. I just do not want it to be an issue.

Does this sound more like it?

On 2001-10-23 11:59, Neisha '67 wrote:
Definate NTJ. Go back and forth as to E or I. Birthyear: 1967.

Neisha, can you remember your approximate scores with respect to N-S and T-F? We should be able to deduce whether your true type is E or an I from these.

On 2001-10-21 13:09, SMA wrote:
xNTJ, 1969

I usually see these listed as:

EexiI
NnxsS
TtxfF
JjxpP

depending on how strong your affinity is. I'm strong NTJ, dead center on I/E

SMA, same for you. Can you remember your approximate scores for N-S and T-F? Or are you saying that you were on the line on all these scales? If you have clear scores for N-S and T-F, we can probably tell whether your true type is I or E.

I think it was something like:

E-I: 50/50
N: 90% (10% S)
T: 95% (5% F)
J: 75% (25% P)

On 2001-10-23 13:44, SMA wrote:
I think it was something like:

E-I: 50/50
N: 90% (10% S)
T: 95% (5% F)
J: 75% (25% P)

Now that is something else! You are so far over toward both N and T that we cannot reasonably tell which one is dominant. If you are truly T-dominant, then you are ENTJ. If you are actually N-dominant, then you are INTJ. But these tests are sufficiently imprecise that I would not want to say that you are T-dominant on the basis of these scores.

That 50% on the I-E scale was no joke! It was entirely consistent.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Stonewall Patton on 2001-10-23 13:58 ]</font>

Oh dear, it's been about six months since I took the test.

What I vaguely recall is that I was very strong N over S, like 90/10 (hence the appeal of things like T4T).

I think I was more like 70/30 or even 60/40 T over F.

I am naturally very strong J, but I am contantly trying to be more P because we nomads need to be comfortable with uncertainty during both 3Ts and 4Ts.

The fact that I am addicted to these threads bodes well for I over E, although I do like people and get cranky when I spend too much time alone.

As Virgil says, HTH.

On 2001-10-23 14:01, Neisha '67 wrote:

What I vaguely recall is that I was very strong N over S, like 90/10 (hence the appeal of things like T4T).

I think I was more like 70/30 or even 60/40 T over F.

Excellent. Your results imply that you are N-dominant. INTJ is N-dominant whereas ENTJ is T-dominant. Therefore you look like an INTJ.

The fact that I am addicted to these threads bodes well for I over E, although I do like people and get cranky when I spend too much time alone.

I know exactly what you mean and I originally had the same problem with that I-E business. It seems that these tests may be inadvertently scoring a lot of NTs inconclusively on the I-E line when they are in fact Is. They need to rewrite the questions.

As Virgil says, HTH.

What does HTH mean? I scratch my head every time I read one of Virgil's posts.

I thought it meant "hope this helps" but maybe it means something paleo-conservative in homeric greek. :wink:

On 2001-10-22 17:28, angeli wrote:
I'm an INFP, except for when I'm an ENFP. I seem to slide back and forth on the I/E continuem every time I take the test.

born, 1968

angeli, you are another one with the same I-E problem so many of us have had. If you can remember your approximate scores for N-S and T-F, I can probably tell you what your true type is.

On 2001-10-23 11:49, madscientist wrote:

Now it gets more interesting, since we have the total opposite of the type who makes up the plurality of 4Ters here. ESFJs tend to make up about 13% of the population, while INTPs make up only 1%. Now, the stakes are reversed. YOU are in the minority :lol: (evil laughter)

Because of this, you will be under analysis by us INTPs. :smile:

Just for reference, here is a comparison of the components of ESFJ as opposed to INTP.

INTP
Ti, Ne, Si, Fe
ESFJ
Fe, Si, Ne, Ti.

Interesting!!!

That is interesting...there are definitely some differences I have noticed between my experiences and ways of expressing myself and most of the board, but it's all good. I will be more than happy to let myself be dissected for your enjoyment...why not?!?

Robert,

I finally remembered how the magnitudes of all eight functions are typically represented, after testing, for all eight types. Let me use ISTJ as an example since so many are forming up here, but the standard form pretty much applies to all types except INTP:

___________________I_________E_________________
__**********************S*******_______________
____________________****T***************_______
________________********F**____________________
_______________________*N*****_________________

You can clearly (I hope) see that the magnitudes of the four standard ISTJ functions decrease in order from Si through Te and Fi to Ne. And you can also see a corresponding "shadow" of sorts declining in magnitude from Se through Ti and Fe to Ni. This again is standard form for all types (except INTP) of course after substituting the proper order of functions for a given type. Note that the "shadow" Se in the ISTJ example above is not necessarily smaller in magnitude than the weakest (fourth) standard ISTJ function (Ne) although this may be an artifact of the instrument. I do not know what it means but this is the way the tests come out.

What I meant by INTPs being unique is that you get something like this:

___________________I_________E_________________
__**********************T*******_______________
____________________****N***************_______
________________********S**____________________
___________________*****F*****_________________

Fi seems to balance Fe, and the ordering of the "shadow" side is broken as Fi is greater in magnitude than most or all of the superior "shadow" functions. Indeed it may arguably be unclear whether Fe even qualifies as our fourth function although we clearly do extrovert feeling. Again this anomaly is unique to INTPs as I understand it.

If you are interested, follow up on it. I have some ideas on how an Fi component may be integral to the INTP thinking process but that is probably not for this forum. But I did want to show you how research demonstrates that the highest scoring function on the basic test seems to correspond to the dominant function, and accordingly may indicate a possible mistyping when inconsistent with the test's verdict. That is why I have been helping all these Ns who are unclear as to their Eness or Iness thanks to the basic test's imprecision.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Stonewall Patton on 2001-10-23 14:46 ]</font>

As a rare poster, I only found this thread an hour ago. Maybe I can get a reading from the General.

I have taken this test in both long and short forms on numerous occassions. Since the Myers-Briggs thing interested me from the first time I was introduced to it, I've kept track of my scores. The results are pretty consistent:
I/E is always between 45/55 and 55/45, so I count that as a true 'x'
N/S is between 95/5 and 100/0 - very 'N'
T/F is between 90/10 and 95/5 - very 'T'
P/J is between 80/20 and 100/0 - very 'P'.

When I read the INTP and ENTP descriptions, both seem to apply about equally - neither fully. I think my 'x' is well deserved, regardless of the internal conflicts it portends.

What say you, General. Your opinion would be appreciated.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David '47 on 2001-10-23 21:26 ]</font>

On 2001-10-23 21:24, David '47 wrote:
As a rare poster, I only found this thread an hour ago. Maybe I can get a reading from the General.

I have taken this test in both long and short forms on numerous occassions. Since the Myers-Briggs thing interested me from the first time I was introduced to it, I've kept track of my scores. The results are pretty consistent:
I/E is always between 45/55 and 55/45, so I count that as a true 'x'
N/S is between 95/5 and 100/0 - very 'N'
T/F is between 90/10 and 95/5 - very 'T'
P/J is between 80/20 and 100/0 - very 'P'.

When I read the INTP and ENTP descriptions, both seem to apply about equally - neither fully. I think my 'x' is well deserved, regardless of the internal conflicts it portends.

What say you, General. Your opinion would be appreciated.

Well, well, well. It looks like we will have an INTP discussion here.

Fron INTP Profile: When two INTPs get togther, watch out! All forms of social graces and host-guest protocols become irrelevant. Both want only to share concepts and interests and absorb the intellectual stimulation of the other. Interruption of this process by any social necessity is undesired and annoying. Often the pair will become oblivious to everything around them and this may seem almost comical to an outsider. Introductory greetings such as "how are you?" may just be given and received with nonchalant disinterest. Conversations are more likely to open with something like: "Hi, I think I've worked out how changes in the Borg's command protocols can be routed through sub-space without compromising their universal teleconnectivity!", knowing that the other person knows exactly what he's on about. Later, the host may offer the guest a drink after an hour of discussing the latest developments in computer technology, and the guest may then notice that he is thirsty.

We have MANY INTPs on this site! So it is time for us to have the mother of all INTP conversations!! This has the potential to turn into the largest INTP destination. Hell, we might even get as many INTPs as a Star Trek convention or a Linux conference with Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman. Hopefully, we'll see more of us, and other INxx, since we are horrendously represented in the larger society.