On 2001-12-04 16:53, madscientist wrote:

On 2001-12-04 16:46, Neisha '67 wrote:

I think the questions are hard to design, especially for extreme intuitives. I have trouble with this sort of test because I tend to read too much into the questions to the point where the choices don't make sense. I keep thinking, well sometimes, option a is true, but I do recall that option b is true when I'm with my family, blah blah blah . . . I think it's especially true for intuitives who have any tendency at all toward being perceivers.
...

I agree with you totally on this.

I do too and this causes me to wonder if this suggests that Neisha is using Ne instead of Ni (seeing as she has been all over the map thus far!). With all those questions, I want more specific context in order to eliminate possibilities so as to better understand what they are getting at. For example: "to do what needs to be done." Do they mean that in a mundane sense such as paying your credit card bill? Or do they mean that in a larger sense such as saving America? If people who use Ni are not flailing around in confusion at the uncertain context, then this ought to be specifically an Ne problem, further complicating Neisha's mystery.

1. In order to take a break do you need to get away from the bustle of the world or do you need to find people to hang with?

Definitely the first.


2. Given a choice, would you rather spend big blocks of time in group activity or solitary activity?

Solitary activity, by far.

3. What's more of a strain, sitting in a meeting for several hours or concentrating on one task by yourself for several hours?

Depends on what the task is. You can always sleep in meetings.

4. What do you find more compelling, the present or the future?

Both.

5. Would you describe yourself as more fanciful or realistic?

Fanciful.

6. Do you tend to focus on details or on the big picture?

I am very detail-oriented


7. Facts speak for themselves or illustrate a larger point?

um...I am not sure how to answer this. I'd say probably illustrate a larger point.


8. You are more annoyed by people who can't seem to shut off their idea generators or people who can't think outside the box?

Both types of people annoy me, depending on my mood. Sometimes I like both types of people too. This isn't really an issue with me.

9. Stacks of paper on the floor are a mess or your personal filing system?

Again, depends. At home i am more persnickety about piles of paper on the floor than at work. At work, it works for me. At home it makes me crazy.


10. Most Saturdays are already booked with appointments you would rather not change or are pretty much unscheduled but busy anyway?

Pretty much unscheduled but busy anyway.

11. Do you enjoy supervising and/or directing the work of others or would you rather let everyone do their own thing and see what happens?

I like working alone, but in an ordered environment. The latter option sounds like a recipe for chaos--or an extremely creative environment, depending on how you look at it. In some situations it would work, in others, no.

12. Do you like to know what your day will look like or do you not mind changes in plans on a regular basis?

Generally, I like a plan of some sort, if not overly structured. But sometimes surprises in a day are nice too.


OK guys, add, subtract and tweak to your heart's content!

Where is the scoring for this?


[/quote]

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2001-12-04 17:58 ]</font>

On 2001-12-04 17:23, madscientist wrote:
Maybe I'm just weird, as when I saw the descriptions of Ne and Ni, I noticed that I actually used BOTH, equally.

Robert, actually even if the test had better accuracy, you would probably be surprised to learn that you DO have strong Ni, although perhaps a tad weaker than Ne. This does not come across in Keirsey of course. The point is that the way your brain is wired, you have the easiest time pairing Ti and Ne and that is why you are an INTP. But this does not mean that your Ni is weak. In fact tests show that your Ni is probably going to be remarkably strong. However you are going to have a notably weaker Te and Fe and thus your Ni cannot fully function to the level of your Ti and Ne together. Therefore you largely ignore your Ni even though it is strong.

Consider that you score nearly 100% N on Keirsey and somewhat weaker on T even though Ti is your dominant function. Keirsey does not differentiate between "e" and "i" attitudes. So Keirsey may be showing that your Ne and Ni combined (N) are greater than your Ti and Te combined (T) even though Ti is your dominant and strongest function. In other words, you probably have a very strong Ni which gets little use because you only have a weak Te and Fe with which to pair it.

Mr. Reed writes, "I absolutely cannot stand people who cannot think outside of the box. Actually, it's not someone who can't, per se, but someone who just refuses to do it."


Forgive me, Mr. Reed, with two straight responses to your posts, you're not the focus of anything untoward, or sinister on my part at all.

But, somehow, I just can't get the notion out of my, right-leaning, mind: You had oomwah in mind when you said that! :lol: Right? Come on, be honest.

I mean what 'box'? Of whose 'box,' do you speak? Is this a worldview? A political view? A philosophical view? Or, perhaps, just a personal space you wish not to be violated?

You know, Mr. Reed, many have tried to put 'God' in a box. Do you think 'God' can be placed neatly in a box, Mr. Reed? Does Mr. Reed adhere to the wisdom of, 'Do not place others in a box wherein thou art not willing to be placed into'?

Or, "Do unto to others what you wish others to do unto you."

Speak unto this 'box' thing, Mr. Reed, speak.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc S. Lamb on 2001-12-04 18:26 ]</font>

On 2001-12-04 18:21, Marc S. Lamb wrote:

Mr. Reed writes, "I absolutely cannot stand people who cannot think outside of the box. Actually, it's not someone who can't, per se, but someone who just refuses to do it."

Forgive me, Mr. Reed, with two straight responses to your posts, your not the focus of anything untoward, or sinister on my part at all.

I know. That's why I didn't really respond to them. Anyways, even though I am a far leftist atheist, the opposite of what you are in this respect, never have you shown antagonism towards me, so I prefer to not bother you about what you post.

But, somehow, I just get the notion out of my, right-leaning, mind: You had oomwah in mind when you said that! :lol: Right? Come on, be honest.

Ummm...no. I was thinking of people who cannot see past 4 feet of what's in front of them. I was thinking about the person who worked in a patent office who in 1899 said, "Everything that can be invented already has," the scientists who, even in 1915, refused to believe that powered flight was possible, and people like Pat Robertson (and you are no Pat Robertson...FAR from it).

I mean what 'box'? Of whose 'box,' do you speak? Is this a worldview? A political view? A philosophical view? Or, perhaps, just a personal space you wish not to be violated?

The whats and whos of box do not matter. I mean, anyone who just refuses to think beyond what they know and trust. Even though I am a leftist and an atheist, there never goes a day in which I don't question my beliefs.

You know, Mr. Reed, many have tried to put 'God' in a box. Do you think 'God' can be placed neatly in a box, Mr. Reed? Does Mr. Reed adhere to the wisdom of, "Do not place others in a box wherein thou art not willing to be placed into"?

Or, "Do unto to others what you wish others to do unto you."

No, I don't think that god can be placed in a box. But whether or not god can or cannot be placed inside a box is moot, and does not change anything.

On 2001-12-04 18:41, madscientist wrote:

Ummm...no. I was thinking of people who cannot see past 4 feet of what's in front of them. I was thinking about the person who worked in a patent office who in 1899 said, "Everything that can be invented already has," the scientists who, even in 1915, refused to believe that powered flight was possible, and people like Pat Robertson (and you are no Pat Robertson...FAR from it).

Don't forget the highly respected expert who so confidently proclaimed in 1913, "The nations of Europe are now so economically intertwined that there will never again be a major war on the continent." These guys recognize that history moves in cycles but for some bizarre reason they only see a straight line ahead of them. Thus we get comments like: "What happened in Germany in the 1930s can never happen here. Why not? Because...er...this is America, that's why."

Neisha-- just stopped back tonight, and caught your reply. Yes, I too found the questions odd. I also notice that our scores can be very far-ranging. Now in my case, I'm seldom an either-or kind of person on these types of continuums. I seldom answer Extremely anything on test items. The second choice in, or the middle is safer ground for me. So, I see my 2 high scores were just 152 and 147, while others score over 200 in one or more of the combinations. It appears that how definite vs how tentative one answers can sway the responses quite a bit. All I had to do was mark a couple of "F" choices stronger than I did a series of "T" choices, and voila-- instead of my usual ISTJ, they find me an ISFJ-- probably my true, hidden side appearing, right?

At least as an "S" I can turn over the responsibility for re-designing these tests to my "N" neighbors on this site. Have at it! Have fun!

Well, I came back and took it again this evening and actually came out INTP this time. I guess you really have to be meticulous about how you weigh each option against its opposite. Still it seems like they need to revise that test. They have the right idea how to go about though:

INTP 307
INFP 274
INTJ 274
INFJ 259
ENTP 247
ENFP 232
ISTP 217
ISFP 184
ENTJ 124
ENFJ 091
ISTJ 076
ISFJ 061
ESTP 049
ESTJ 034
ESFP 034
ESFJ 001

Fe 01
Fi 18
Ne 18
Ni 22
Se 00
Si 04
Te 04
Ti 21

I made up a diagram to show what is going on:

__*********************T****
_**********************N******************
___________________****S
_____******************F*

Robert, you can see that strong Fi I was telling you about with respect to INTPs. And you can also see how the INTP functions decline in strength in order from Ti through Ne and Si to Fe. We have reason to believe that this test as currently configured could be more accurate. But you are still going to have strength in the shadow functions which does not show up with Keirsey's test -- and you see it here. I went ahead and made a diagram for you based upon your earlier scores:

___********************T********
_**********************N**************
_______________********S
_________**************F**
Your INTP functions also decline in strength in order as they should. You also have an Fi tail. We both show our Ni's as being stronger than our Ne's -- and I suppose this is possible -- but I suspect that the odds are that the test is inaccurately weighting Ni for some reason. Also note that we both show nothing for Se. The test may be underscoring that.

This one's for Susan B. I've tried to steer away from posting on this deterministic thread, but alas...

Personality Type: IN T/f J/p

The internet and family/friends are my only solid links to mainstream culture, because since 1993 I have primarily work on-site at various public lands. I don't get near cities too often, even so:

plays: ???

music:
1) friends playing guitar/singing
2) guitar/piano
3) country
4) classical
5) bluegrass/ethinic sounds
6) classic Rock
7) 80's pop (for laughs and warm memories)

movies:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Raising Arizona
Dr. Zhivago
Wizard of Oz
Ferris Bueller's Day Off

computer games:
I haven't played them since the early 90's.

LOL!

I guess it's safe to say that I'm the only one that had no problem whatsoever with the questions on that one test.

Susan, using Neisha's test, you are an INxJ.

Thanks, madscientist.

Now I've come out as INFJ, INFP, INxJ, and INTJ, depending on which test I take! Well, it's true, I flip-flop between Thinking and Feeling a lot, and slightly less so between Judging and Perceiving. The IN holds firm though. I am about as far from E as you can get. I'm a true-blue nerd, but that's okay!

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2001-12-05 16:34 ]</font>

Susan, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I only get to post every 3-5 days. The reason you came out INxJ on my test is because I couldn't come up with any T/F questions. The test is very incomplete, a rough draft really, and I would love for others to add to it.

What's the difference between Ne and Ni? Can someone please explain the Jungian stuff to us? I'm only familiar with Keirsey.

Same here. I'm an e/infj, middle on the e/i and same with t/f. No clear preference for either one. I have that same problem with my family too. While I can be very reliable/responsible, have my chores done on time, be on time, and b e organized, my family still treats me like I'm living in a dream world even though I'm usually pretty realistic about most things, since I like to daydream a lot. My favorite thing to daydream about is what my life would be like as a tv show or what I'd be like as a Simpsons character. (lol the drawing looked pretty strange)Even though a lot of people think us nfs are unrealistic or like to daydream, many of my friends always come to me with problems they won't go to other friends with, even friends I've only had a short amount of time. Usually, I'm not the best advice giver, but together we kind of talk everything out and go by both the facts and emotions involved. My best friend tells me I usually notice stuff that a lot of people don't or see patterns/connections between things, which is common of infjs. I usually don't have prophetic dreams, but sometimes I'll have a similar series of dreams for about six months, then when something related happens I'll get a dejavu feeling then I'll never have another one of those dreams again. When I tell my family, they dismiss the subject since a lot of my dreams are kind of strange. I think I might have some psychic ability since even as a kid before I learned to play a musical instrument, I could sit down at a piano and pick out notes to a song on the radio then it would be correct. I guess my motto is 'every cloud has a silver lining, but there's still that stupid cloud.'

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: artist_nf on 2001-12-06 20:42 ]</font>

It looks like I'm an IxxP, most likely a INFP ('73, male) but with tendencies towards ISFP and ISTP. The close split between S and N makes sense to me intuitively (heh) from my interest in S&H's theory. I'm kind of a factoid monger, taking joy in knowing all sorts of (not-necessarily) useful info (e.g., that someday one of Mars' moons will crash into the planet). At the same time I really like classification systems that put all the neat factoids into interesting and even meaningful arrangements, like S&H's theory does.

As for faves:

TV: Moonlighting, Night Court, Deep Space 9, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Homicide, NYPD Blue, News Radio, MASH, Brimstone, The Twilight Zone (old and new), SG-1, The John Larroquette Show, Highlander: The Raven, Beast Wars cartoon (1st series), and others I can't think of right now.

Movies: I worked at a video store for a few years, so way too many to mention, but here's a good sample anyway, in no particular order.
The Magnificent Seven/The Dirty Dozen
The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
Klute
The Star Wars series
The Indiana Jones series
The Thin Man series
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
Arsenic and Old Lace
Mr. Deeds Goes to Town
We're No Angels (the original! w/Bogart)
Enter The Dragon/Fists of Fury/Chinese Conn.
The Addams Family/Addams Family Vales
The Nightmare Before Christmas
Adventures in Babysitting
Payback
most Monty Python movies
Lone Star
The Lover
White Palace
The Wanderers
Bulletproof Heart
Clara's Heart
Corinna, Corinna
Desert Hearts
The Last Dragon
Gloria (w/Sharon Stone)
most Hitchcock movies, esp. Rear Window and The Trouble with Harry
Psycho (the remake)
Last Man Standing (a remake of Fistful of Dollars)
The Ref
Unbreakable
The Crow
The Faculty
Soldier
Disturbing Behavior
The Sixth Sense
Stir of Echoes
Lost Boys/Flatliners/The Breakfast Club
Sleeping With The Enemy
Desperado/From Dusk Til Dawn
Serial Mom
My Family (Mi Familia)
American Me
Notting Hill
Totilla Soup
Fantasia/Fantasia 2000

I don't see many plays/musicals, but I have liked:
Rent
The Unsinkable Molly Brown
Guys and Dolls
A Christmas Carol

I don't play many video games, but at home I liked Tomb Raider and Twisted Metal 3. In the arcade I prefer any kind of pinball.

Music-wise, my tastes run the gamut. Here's a very small sample, again in no particular order.

Weird Al
Tom Lehrer
Tito and Tarantula
L7
the soundtracks/scores for a lot of the movies listed above, plus Pulp Fiction and both Blues Brothers movies
most Motown
Surfing with the Alien (album, Joe Satriani)
Lita (album, Lita Ford)
Beethoven's Fifth Symphony
Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain

Hey, Tim! Harold and Maude was playing on AMC today and I caught the end of it.

Maude was turning 80, so she was a Lost. But she was probably INFJ or INFP, like you said. Harold, of course, started out kind of like a preseasonal Xer but Maude turned him into a Boomer. Heh.

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2001-12-14 01:33 ]</font>

I would definitely peg Maude as an ENFP. She's far more extraverted and silly than the INFPs I know.

On 2001-12-14 08:23, jcarson71 wrote:
I would definitely peg Maude as an ENFP. She's far more extraverted and silly than the INFPs I know.

Gosh darn, I think you're right.

I think Jihad Johnny is a classic INFP gone over the edge. Alyosha Karamozov discovers Islamic righteousness.

Yes we must be very careful with those dangerous INFPs!

NEWSFLASH--"...He was always such a quiet boy...sob..."

Does anyone know what personality types are more dominant/submissive? My friend and I somehow got on the topic of dominance/submissiveness in relationships, and narcissism. I found out that I am an entj/estp, kind of dead center on the S/N and J/P scale, no obvious preference for either. Dominance is also confused with narcissism and stuff. I know I'm not a dominance/narcissist since controlling people goes against my values, but I know I don't have a submissive bone in my body since even as a kid, I'd respect my parents rules and how they raised me and stuff, but even as a young kid I would lay down the boundaries since sometimes they could get a little unrealistic and idealistic and saw children as an extension of their own personalities. There's a big difference between tact (changing the words without changing the facts) and conforming to please another person. I know that entjs/estps are more dominant types, but n allows me to see the big picture in relationships, while s allows me to see things realistically and see the facts of the here/now. I guess I've always been able to see why people do the things they've do or trace things back to how they started in logical order and not be fooled by narcissists since estps are known for having an uncanny sense of what motivates people or see what makes them tick.

On 2001-12-14 01:31, Susan Brombacher wrote:
Hey, Tim! Harold and Maude was playing on AMC today and I caught the end of it.

Maude was turning 80, so she was a Lost. But she was probably INFJ or INFP, like you said. Harold, of course, started out kind of like a preseasonal Xer but Maude turned him into a Boomer. Heh.

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2001-12-14 01:33 ]</font>

amc is pretty good! I caught some of it one time when I got mad at Days OF Our Lives because that dumb head writer Tom Langan ruined it, but he got fired, so I went back to that show. What other soaps do you watch? I love Days of Our Lives, Passions,(Timmy rules) One Life to Live. As an estp, I like shows that are bizarrelike passions, but I can't stand to see inconsistent writing, especially when they erase a soaps history and drop storylines and do things like have characters leave and not tell where they went.

On 2001-12-14 01:31, Susan Brombacher wrote:
Hey, Tim! Harold and Maude was playing on AMC today and I caught the end of it.

Maude was turning 80, so she was a Lost. But she was probably INFJ or INFP, like you said. Harold, of course, started out kind of like a preseasonal Xer but Maude turned him into a Boomer. Heh.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2001-12-14 01:33 ]</font>

Harold and Maude is one of my absolute favorite films of all time!

I'm sorry I missed it. My only copy of that film is on an old Betamax tape, and my machine gave up the ghost long ago. <sigh>

Guess it's time to raid the video stores.

I have to agree with your generational analysis, too.

Kiff '61

I'm an ESFP 1982

Hi. I'm new. my type is you guessed it- ESFP. I've been searching MBTI related boards and stuff and noticed that not many SP types seem to visit this type of site, but when I'm not at work or out having fun and stuff I'm a TV/internet addict and found a link to this type of stuff on another site when i was looking up something I heard about that favorite colors say about personality. Most of those tests are about the same type questions as MBTI only the results are colors and earth/water/fire/air element stuff. I'm also a red/orange and mix of earth/fire on a similar test. Most of the artisan descriptions seemed to fit about right except for I seem to be about 50-50 on the T/F and about 25/75 on the J/P. I thought the esfp description was really accurate especially the part about thinking/speaking in a spider web approach or could be described as a pin ball machine.