I took one of the less detailed tests and came out ESTP.

Am I the only ESTP on this board? I'm being overwhelmed by all the INTPs.

An any rate, I'm not sure how tastes in entertainment reflect my personality type, but here's what I'm into:

TV: As for current TV, I'm into Survivor, The Simpsons, Frasier, CSI, ER, Behind The Music, and Emeril Live (the cooking show on Food Network - not the dreadfully awful TV sitcom). Other than that, I usually watch sports and music videos.

As for classic TV, I was really into Happy Days, Starsky and Hutch, and Love Boat in my pre-teen years; Cosby, Family Ties, Miami Vice, and Moonlighting in high school, and from my just out of college days, In Living Color, Married With Children and early X-Files.

Movies: Mostly comedies, such as Back To The Future, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, the Austin Powers movies, American Pie, South Park, but I really liked The Matrix and the Star Wars movies. I also loved It's A Wonderful Life.

Music: I really love Mariah Carey, but otherwise, my tastes range from hip hop, older R&B (most current R&B is crappy stuff they show on BET with all of the hoochie mama dancers, etc.), 80's new wave and metal, and some jazz. I was into the early grunge and alternative music scene at the time it was hot, but I rarely ever listen to it now.

On 2001-12-17 11:16, anne579 wrote:
Does anyone know what personality types are more dominant/submissive? My friend and I somehow got on the topic of dominance/submissiveness in relationships, and narcissism.

What I know of the MBTI actually says little directly about dominance/submissiveness (although I'd say that the extraverted types would generally be dominant and the introverted types would generally be submissive, but that's just a wild-@$$ed guess) and nothing about narcissism, although I expect that extraverted feeling types might tend to narcissistism if pathological.

A system that I find more helpful for both these issues is the Enneagram. There was an item about it that I just asked to activate, so watch this space.

I found out that I am an entj/estp, kind of dead center on the S/N and J/P scale, no obvious preference for either.

The version of the test I took used tiebreakers by gender. For the S/N tie, I was scored as an N, since I'm male. You'd probably be scored as an S. I wouldn't be surprised if you were scored as a P for the same reason.

Dominance is also confused with narcissism and stuff.

Those people who think that must be confused. In the MBTI system, dominance would be partially subsumed under extraversion/introversion, but that's because there is a problem with how extraversion is formulated. Part of it has to do with assertiveness (dominance), while part of it has to do with sociability (irrelevant to the question). Another personality variable, argreeableness/antagonism, doesn't seem to be addressed by the MBTI at all!

I know I'm not a dominance/narcissist since controlling people goes against my values,

But does it go against your personality? That's a different question! FWIW, I've run into systems that call ENTJs "Field Marshals", ESTJs "Supervisors", and ESTPs "Promoters". Those don't sound like submissive names to me!

FWIW, ENTPs are called "Inventors", which is neutral in the dominance/submissiveness area.

BTW, I'm an ENTJ, one of very few around here. As you'll find out, most of the people here are INTP or INTJ--extraverts are rare on this site, at least among those who took the MBTI!

On 2001-12-30 20:08, 728huey wrote:
I took one of the less detailed tests and came out ESTP.

Am I the only ESTP on this board? I'm being overwhelmed by all the INTPs.

You must have just missed Anne579. Should could have been scored ESTP.

An any rate, I'm not sure how tastes in entertainment reflect my personality type, but here's what I'm into:

TV: As for current TV, I'm into Survivor

Ditto here. Care to come over the the Generations and TV item to discuss it?

I have come out as INFJ, INTJ, and INFP on various tests, and probably all are accurate depending on my mood from one day to the next. No one is the same all the time.

On the Enneagram I am a 4/5 (Artist/Thinker).

For anybody who is still uncertain as to his/her true type, you may want to download this DDLI test here:

http://www.ling.rochester.edu/~duniho/ddli/

You have to download a small zip file (~100k) and take the test on your computer. Links are offered to download different versions and I know that at least a few do not work. The link for the MS-DOS version definitely does work and the file name for this is ddli341.zip.

You are given 100-120 questions and asked to rate the magnitude of a given preference on a scale of 0 to 7. This weighting contributes to the final scoring for E, I, N, S, T, F, J, and P so perhaps people will get a more accurate typing with this test. Additionally, supplemental questions are scored and preferences are determined to corroborate (or not corroborate) the initial typing. In other words, if you are typed correctly immediately after the test, the supplemental scoring will corroborate this typing. So those who keep getting different results on different tests may feel much more confident with the results of this test. HTH....

I am still trying to make sense of how Vince Lamb's Enneagram works. But I did find a few links to tests if anybody is interested:

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com

This apparently is the "mother" site for enneagrams. You can pay a fee to take the long version or you can take a "partial" test for free.

Here is another site:

http://www.9types.com

There are two different tests at this site. One appears identical to the partial test from the Enneagram Institute. But there is also a "new test" here in a different format.

While perusing the message boards at 9types, I found a link to a third test:

http://www.duniho.com/fergus/enneagram/test/test.phtml

The person on the message board stated that he/she got a clearer result with this test and, after taking it, I agree (my results in the first two tests were not perfectly clear but I did not pay the fee to take the long test either). It is yet another format and provides a variety of supplemental scoring.

Perhaps Vince or someone else would care to explain the enneagram? It looks like you are one of nine types and you have a "wing" to one or the other of the adjacent types in the circle. But there are apparently all kinds of submeanings and "triads" and I am not certain yet what they all mean.

Here is a page with a variety of different people's opinions as to Enneagram correlations with MBTI:

http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/typecorr.htm

As you can see, there is a lot of disagreement as to what some of these enneagram types represent in terms of MBTI. For all the INTPs, it looks like there is strong agreement that Five is Introverted Thinking and thus our type. But it also shows that some INTPs score differently. Many other MBTI types will have a more confusing correlation.

Let me take a stab at matching up the Enneagram types with the MBTI types.

Type 2 (Helper) corrresponds with ENFP
Type 3 (Status Seeker) corresponds with ESFJ
Type 4 (Artist) corresponds with INFP
Type 5 (Thinker) corresponds with INTJ/P
Type 6 (Loyalist) corresponds with ENFJ
Type 7 ((Generalist) corresponds with ESFP
Type 8 (Leader) corresponds with ENTP
Type 9 (Peacemaker) corresponds with ISTP
Type 1 (Reformer) corresponds with ESTJ

These are just my guesses. I had the most trouble determining the P/J dimension. If anyone would like to critique or modify my correlations, I'd be interested to see them.

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-01-01 16:39 ]</font>

I just took the http://9types.com test (the New Test) and came out with my highest score as a Romantic (5) and second-highest (4) as an Enthusiast. Hmmm.

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-01-01 16:54 ]</font>

OK, Stonewall, I took all the tests on your latest links. On the Jungian/MBTI test I came out ENTP, with the E being the weakest preference. On two of the enneagram tests I came out a 5 and on the third I came out a 4! Oh well!

On 2002-01-01 09:02, Stonewall Patton wrote:
For anybody who is still uncertain as to his/her true type, you may want to download this DDLI test here:

http://www.ling.rochester.edu/~duniho/ddli/

In other words, if you are typed correctly immediately after the test, the supplemental scoring will corroborate this typing. So those who keep getting different results on different tests may feel much more confident with the results of this test. HTH....

I had an initial reading of xNTP and a secondary supplemental of INTP on this one. I had a strong N versus S and P versus J and an overwhelming T over F...E/I came out closely. HTH

On 2002-01-01 16:53, Susan Brombacher wrote:
I just took the http://9types.com test (the New Test) and came out with my highest score as a Romantic (5) and second-highest (4) as an Enthusiast. Hmmm.

I scored type 5 the highest and Type 4 the second highest, the third highest was type six and fourth highest was type one.

It seems that predominately iNtuitives post to this web site. But iNtuitives are the minority; it's a Sensor's world. I wonder what other people feel about their minority status. For me, as an INFJ, I think being an iNtuitive must be a little like being left handed. Those who are left handed must deal with objects that are designed for those who are right handed-for example, scissors. Basically, the world is not designed in a way congeneal to them, but they are expected to adapt and be happy with their situation, and they are basically invisible. (As a Feeling Male I'm a double minority, but that's another thread).

On 2002-01-29 21:05, Tim Walker wrote:
It seems that predominately iNtuitives post to this web site. But iNtuitives are the minority; it's a Sensor's world. I wonder what other people feel about their minority status.

Dear Mr. Walker, I think as an INTP being in the minority should allow one to play the victim card early and often in the game of American 21st Century life. That we so often forebear is some consolation to me. HTH

I think that INTPs despise self-victimization.

On 2002-01-29 21:05, Tim Walker wrote:
It seems that predominately iNtuitives post to this web site. But iNtuitives are the minority; it's a Sensor's world. I wonder what other people feel about their minority status. For me, as an INFJ, I think being an iNtuitive must be a little like being left handed. Those who are left handed must deal with objects that are designed for those who are right handed-for example, scissors. Basically, the world is not designed in a way congeneal to them, but they are expected to adapt and be happy with their situation, and they are basically invisible. (As a Feeling Male I'm a double minority, but that's another thread).

Yes, it can be a little lonely being an iNtuitive in a world, especially if you go to a college seemingly populated by S types. Maybe I should try to go to a more prestigious college, where Ns would dominate more. But on this board, at least I have the ability to terrorize S types. :smile:

Heck, the world has turned me into a sensor. I started out my Federal Government career as a weak intuitive (INTJ) and ten years later, tested as a weak sensor (ISTJ). So beware, you young iNtuitives! Wait til work, kids, and the lot turn you into Sensors! (of course, this wouldn't apply to the Boomer iNtuitives here, who have had plenty of time to hold out against the lures of this world!)

Maybe I love this thread because it gives my "N" a chance to explore big themes. Notice though, that half my posts are nit-picky details? :lol:

Me turning into a sensor? Sure, when pigs fly. :smile: Basically, I am on the extreme N side of the spectrum.

There are a bunch of INFPs on another thread making bizarre claims (hehehe) about how they "hear voices in their heads," and about how their writings are in effect transcripts of these "otherworldly" conversations. I am guessing that this must be part of "auditory thinking" which Robert and I were discussing on yet another thread and it definitely needs to be fleshed out further by those who have it. But this is very confusing because many who claim to have this auditory "talent" also claim to be very visual. So let me put out a few questions for anybody willing to participate:

To fellow INTPS:

Do any of you relate to what Susan, Angeli, Justin and I guess others (INFPs?) are saying? I have tried hard to relate to what they describe but I just do not see it. It seems to me that the only voice I hear in my head is my own. For example, if I am reading something which states, "2 + 2 = 4," then I can hear my own voice in my head saying, "Two plus two equals four." If I am reading the alphabet, then I can hear my own voice in my head saying (retarded voice), "AAAAAAAAAAAA, B-BBBBBBBBBBBBB, CCCCCCCC...." (OK, not THAT bad.) I do not think that I ever hear anybody else's voice.

At times I will laugh at a joke which I heard sometime earlier somewhere else (often to the puzzlement of people around me who have no idea what I am thinking and laughing about). It occurred to me that here I might be hearing the joke teller's voice and that is why I am laughing. Well, I am not so sure. I believe the joke caused me to laugh originally because it conjured up an absurd image in my head. When I laugh about it later, I do not believe that I am recalling the joke teller's words specifically, but rather the absurd image which his joke created in my mind at the time. (I can then recall his words based upon the image, probably in my own voice again.) So any way you slice it, I am not relating to what our INFPs are describing.

Can any of you INTPs relate to what these people are describing about voices? If so, in what context (perhaps one which I have not thought of)? Can you relate to the visual description I wrote above? How or how not?


To INFPs and others:

Describe those voices in greater detail, if necessary. But also compare and contrast with your visual nature if you are visual. It sounds like visual and auditory are not mutually exclusive as far as the brain is concerned. Can you clearly see where either visual is dominant over auditory or auditory is dominant over visual? Or are both so wrapped up in a confusing melange that you cannot really say that you rely more on one than the other?


Back to INTPs and anybody else:

As far as the auditory brain goes, how would you compare voices to musical notes, for example? I suppose I can clearly hear a Middle C in my head with precision. For that matter, I can hear a full symphony going at it. But how do other people's voices compare? I just don't think I generally replay other people's voices in my head (which seems strange considering the music) but maybe I am missing something. Now if I consciously try to imagine a specific individual saying something, I can then hear their voice in my head saying the words I consciously put in their mouth. But I really do not think that I ever spontaneously hear other people's voices saying things which I have never even heard before (like our INFPs). This really is kind of fascinating so let's flesh it out.

On 2002-02-03 12:54, Stonewall Patton wrote:


Can any of you INTPs relate to what these people are describing about voices? If so, in what context (perhaps one which I have not thought of)? Can you relate to the visual description I wrote above? How or how not?

Dear Mr. Patton, I as an INTP do not have the experience of other voices. But, I do have the experience of another listener if I am in an intense one-on-one conversation about an important matter (as opposed to an intense conversation upon say which is a better hockey team the Minnesota Gophers or the North Dakota Fighting Sioux, a trivial matter) I add an auditor who listens very carefully to what both my interluctor and Virgil Saari are saying. This may be due neurological defect, injury or common to INTPs. It is an "out-of-the-mind" experience with some parallel to that recorded by those having an out-of-the-body experience due to physical trauma.


I do not recall changing my side of an argument or being influenced but I have perhaps a greater recall and greater precision of the use of language when this happens.


Yo. Ob. Svs. Virgil K. Saari

On 2002-02-03 12:54, Stonewall Patton wrote:



Back to INTPs and anybody else:

As far as the auditory brain goes, how would you compare voices to musical notes, for example? I suppose I can clearly hear a Middle C in my head with precision. For that matter, I can hear a full symphony going at it. But how do other people's voices compare? I just don't think I generally replay other people's voices in my head (which seems strange considering the music) but maybe I am missing something. Now if I consciously try to imagine a specific individual saying something, I can then hear their voice in my head saying the words I consciously put in their mouth. But I really do not think that I ever spontaneously hear other people's voices saying things which I have never even heard before (like our INFPs). This really is kind of fascinating so let's flesh it out.

What do you "hear" when you notice something like a birdsong? Does it enter as the actual sound, say "tweet-tweet" or does it enter as that is a "canary" (thing associated with the sound?


Do you hear the tones and notes? Or do you hear a guitar?

I am inflicted with very sensative hearing and have to work most of the day with earplugs when about machinery. I used to hear the object identified unless I was listening to music. Now, I find I hear the actual whine of my monitor and the whirring of my CPU's fan as sounds and not just identifiers. Is this aging or concentration and education on my part?. Do advise.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Virgil K. Saari on 2002-02-03 14:28 ]</font>

As to visual sense, if I am about to embark on say a watercolor painting; after I have all my equipment at the ready and am going to do a work of imagination rather than a landscape from nature I begin to concentrate.


My vision is filled with what I am working on and I can transfer that vision unto my easel. I had been painting an imagined youngster on a small chair in an imitation Norman Rockwell manner and I could look up from my canvas and see his shallow breathing and his bobbing head. This perhaps closer to what the INFPs do when they have words pour forth. HTH

I also don't hear anyone else's voice in my head but my own. So, I would also be really interested to hear from people who hear the voices. That's so interesting. I'm pretty sure I'm more of a visual thinker, but whatever I am doing is so automatic that I don't really think about what it is.

On 2002-02-03 14:00, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

Dear Mr. Patton, I as an INTP do not have the experience of other voices. But, I do have the experience of another listener if I am in an intense one-on-one conversation about an important matter (as opposed to an intense conversation upon say which is a better hockey team the Minnesota Gophers or the North Dakota Fighting Sioux, a trivial matter) I add an auditor who listens very carefully to what both my interluctor and Virgil Saari are saying. This may be due neurological defect, injury or common to INTPs. It is an "out-of-the-mind" experience with some parallel to that recorded by those having an out-of-the-body experience due to physical trauma.


I do not recall changing my side of an argument or being influenced but I have perhaps a greater recall and greater precision of the use of language when this happens.


Yo. Ob. Svs. Virgil K. Saari

Mr. Saari, I'm not sure that I understand what you are describing. Would you give a specific example? The one thing which did come to mind while reading your post is the predisposition toward self-correction (read: self-perfection) of grammar and usage. However I never thought of this in terms of any third party intervention, be it speaker or listener. In fact, at one point after getting online (with a requirement that I spend a whole lot of time online), I realized that I had to lessen my rigor with respect to this and compromise in order to keep up with the volume of both information and mail. The quality of my grammar and usage has diminished accordingly. I finally understand how a dedicated correspondent (and likely INTP) such as Thomas Jefferson could spell the same word three different ways in the same letter. Tom should have stepped away from his correspondence desk more often and I should do the same with respect to my computer monitor.

Are you referring to this constant self-correction of grammar and usage? If so, I would have to take more time to consider where it comes from, whether it be speaker or listener or something else entirely. But if you have a specific example in mind, perhaps this might clarify things.

On 2002-02-03 14:26, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

What do you "hear" when you notice something like a birdsong? Does it enter as the actual sound, say "tweet-tweet" or does it enter as that is a "canary" (thing associated with the sound?

I suppose the latter.

Do you hear the tones and notes? Or do you hear a guitar?

With music, I hear the intricate patterns and, if the patterns are not too intricate, the music generally does not appeal to me. For example, I am not much for anything a capella or "unplugged." I am drawn first toward instrumentation, and a more complex orchestration wherein different instruments complement and communicate with each other.

But yes, the tone seems to make a difference so I suppose this is the first thing I notice. For example, I am not much for solo piano (no bite), solo flute (think Coke bottle), or solo saxophone (think kazoo). These can be indispensable when blended into the "wall of sound" in the background. But I do not want to hear them up front and unfiltered by other instruments.

I am inflicted with very sensative hearing and have to work most of the day with earplugs when about machinery. I used to hear the object identified unless I was listening to music. Now, I find I hear the actual whine of my monitor and the whirring of my CPU's fan as sounds and not just identifiers. Is this aging or concentration and education on my part?. Do advise.

With respect to the monitor and fan, I guess I am not that old yet. However any sort of loud machinery can be obnoxious when you "cannot hear yourself think." A vacuum cleaner is obnoxious in precisely the same way.