On 2002-03-27 06:37, Donna Sherman wrote:
I think I have my daughter's type figured out, Sherry. She's 4 years old now but her personality has been pretty set from day one. She is ESFP. E: this girl's been looking people straight in the eye since she was 3 months old and smiling. She's a nonstop talker. S: Seems to take in information via the senses; likes working on "projects" with her hands. F: already she communicates on a feeling level - uses feeling words, sad, mad, happy. Expresses feelings easily. P: I think P mostly because she's pretty loose and flexible. Although she enjoys cleaning and picking things up, overall I think SP fits better for her than SJ.

Fascinating. This would confirm Keirsey's observation that MBTI types (or at least temperaments) are set at birth.

I can speak about myself as an infant from stories my parents told me. I was a restless kid. Never talked until I was about 4. Decoded Speak-n-Spell when I was 5. My parents did always say that I seemed experimental. Perhaps, one of the most intriguing stories of being an infant happened when I was 2. My parents said that they found a stack of books and a small chair by the front door. I used that to unlock the door, and disappeared for about two hours (my overprotective mother must've had a heart attack!). I appeared at the house two hours later, having likely taken a tour of my neighborhood in my daipers before finding my way home. I would just love to remember that.

On 2002-03-27 09:52, madscientist wrote:

On 2002-03-27 06:37, Donna Sherman wrote:
I think I have my daughter's type figured out, Sherry. She's 4 years old now but her personality has been pretty set from day one. She is ESFP. E: this girl's been looking people straight in the eye since she was 3 months old and smiling. She's a nonstop talker. S: Seems to take in information via the senses; likes working on "projects" with her hands. F: already she communicates on a feeling level - uses feeling words, sad, mad, happy. Expresses feelings easily. P: I think P mostly because she's pretty loose and flexible. Although she enjoys cleaning and picking things up, overall I think SP fits better for her than SJ.

Fascinating. This would confirm Keirsey's observation that MBTI types (or at least temperaments) are set at birth.

I can speak about myself as an infant from stories my parents told me. I was a restless kid. Never talked until I was about 4. Decoded Speak-n-Spell when I was 5. My parents did always say that I seemed experimental. Perhaps, one of the most intriguing stories of being an infant happened when I was 2. My parents said that they found a stack of books and a small chair by the front door. I used that to unlock the door, and disappeared for about two hours (my overprotective mother must've had a heart attack!). I appeared at the house two hours later, having likely taken a tour of my neighborhood in my daipers before finding my way home. I would just love to remember that.

Yeah,kids are cool. All I remember my parents saying about me as a kid is "she's always talking" - I guess I was pretty E right from the outset!

I think Keirsey is right about the inborn nature of the temperment of kids; it would be neat if genetic (or other) evidence of this were ever found.

That's funny, Robert! I also escaped from my parents apartment soon after becoming mobile. I went to visit the upstairs neighbors, who brought me back down.

I was an early talker, a serious kid who spoke in full sentences, no baby talk, by the age of two. I was kind of the neighborhood entertainment for the pre-schoolers. Apparently, I would get annoyed and say, what are you laughing at, and slam the door on them. I would also escape from my mom in the grocery store and she would find me by the books and magazines.

On 2002-03-27 13:20, Neisha '67 wrote:
That's funny, Robert! I also escaped from my parents apartment soon after becoming mobile. I went to visit the upstairs neighbors, who brought me back down.

I was an early talker, a serious kid who spoke in full sentences, no baby talk, by the age of two. I was kind of the neighborhood entertainment for the pre-schoolers. Apparently, I would get annoyed and say, what are you laughing at, and slam the door on them. I would also escape from my mom in the grocery store and she would find me by the books and magazines.

I would disappear often too. I would just run around, sometimes breaking things in stores, embarressing my parents. I just basically never talked until I was 4. Don't know the reason. My parents almost had to literally put me on a leash.

I used to take things apart and put them back together. My parents stopped worrying once they realized that things still worked once I was done with them. I did get in big trouble at about age five, caught well into disassembling my grandparents' hot water heater.

It's funny about the personality types being set from birth. I score as a pretty strong extrovert. This has only been the case for the past five years or so. I first took the MBTI in '92 or '91, and came up an even stronger introvert. For most of the childhood I remember, I certainly fit that role. Strangely enough, however, I started talking at a very early age (and never really shut up), and was apparently very social with kids outside my peer group.


I wonder if there is a time, circa adolescence, when other factors can drive one's natural personality into temporary dormancy...



_________________
For the basis of all political action is coercion; even when the State does good things, it finally rests on a club, a gun, or a prison, for its power to carry them through. -- Voltairine de Cleyre

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Justin '77 on 2002-03-27 13:43 ]</font>

On 2002-03-27 13:42, Justin '77 wrote:
I wonder if there is a time, circa adolescence, when other factors can drive one's natural personality into temporary dormancy...

Perhaps the ingestion of large amounts and various kinds of soporifics in adolescence would do the trick. Mr. Meece might be able to comment more wisely upon this matter.

On 2002-03-27 13:48, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2002-03-27 13:42, Justin '77 wrote:
I wonder if there is a time, circa adolescence, when other factors can drive one's natural personality into temporary dormancy...

Perhaps the ingestion of large amounts and various kinds of soporifics in adolescence would do the trick. Mr. Meece might be able to comment more wisely upon this matter.

Point taken. Though my introverted phase began well before my mood-altering-though-prescribed-drug phase. Also, I was on a, let us say, anti-soporific...

Ritalin! It's like crank cut with vitamin E because -- well, because it's crank cut with vitamin E! :grin:

I was into almost getting myself killed.
Somehow as a toddler i managed to scale some bunk beds and dive off landing on my head. I also had a dark tooth as a child, because I slid down the stairs face first, and it killed the nerve endings in my tooth.
Awww. I think i was an extrovert. I remember inviting three kids into the bathroom to pee with me, and all the boys obliged, but the little girl just looked scared.
I didn't know about our differences yet.

On 2002-03-27 16:54, Terminator X wrote:
I was into almost getting myself killed.
Somehow as a toddler i managed to scale some bunk beds and dive off landing on my head. I also had a dark tooth as a child, because I slid down the stairs face first, and it killed the nerve endings in my tooth.
Awww. I think i was an extrovert. I remember inviting three kids into the bathroom to pee with me, and all the boys obliged, but the little girl just looked scared.
I didn't know about our differences yet.

I bet you also had a bowl haircut and Oshkosh B Gosh overalls, right? :smile:

Me, my parents actually worried about me because I watched TOO LITTLE tv! I was a bookworm even as a little child, and would often sneak off to the school library on "bathroom breaks," LOL!
I was the skinny little nerdy girl with the long stringy blonde hair practically covering my face, with my nose always buried in a book.

On 2002-03-27 06:37, Donna Sherman wrote:
I think I have my daughter's type figured out, Sherry. She's 4 years old now but her personality has been pretty set from day one. She is ESFP. E: this girl's been looking people straight in the eye since she was 3 months old and smiling. She's a nonstop talker. S: Seems to take in information via the senses; likes working on "projects" with her hands. F: already she communicates on a feeling level - uses feeling words, sad, mad, happy. Expresses feelings easily. P: I think P mostly because she's pretty loose and flexible. Although she enjoys cleaning and picking things up, overall I think SP fits better for her than SJ.

I have my four-year-old daughter down to two types: ENFJ or INFJ. She's very E at home, or pretty E w/others, as long as my husband or I are w/her. However, if she has a babysitter or goes to someone else's house, even if it's the house of someone she knows well, she won't talk or relax until she's been there at least an hour or more. And even then she doesn't really want to interact too much. So I'm having a hard time deciding which one is the "real her." The others are much easier: she asks a million "Why...?" questions & is always thinking about how concepts go together (N); she's very in touch w/her feelings & is pretty empathetic toward others (F); & quite often doesn't want to hear more than one choice (J).

I took the personality type test here


http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Your Type is

INTJ

Introverted 33%
Intuitive 17%
Thinking 44%
Judging 44%



You are:
moderately expressed introvert

slightly expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality

Nice link, Tristan. One of the better tests, I think. I still came out ENTP: slightly extraverted, strongly intuitive, moderately thinking, slightly perceiving.

Simple explanation of the functions also.

On 2002-03-27 21:56, Sherry63 wrote:

On 2002-03-27 06:37, Donna Sherman wrote:
I think I have my daughter's type figured out, Sherry. She's 4 years old now but her personality has been pretty set from day one. She is ESFP. E: this girl's been looking people straight in the eye since she was 3 months old and smiling. She's a nonstop talker. S: Seems to take in information via the senses; likes working on "projects" with her hands. F: already she communicates on a feeling level - uses feeling words, sad, mad, happy. Expresses feelings easily. P: I think P mostly because she's pretty loose and flexible. Although she enjoys cleaning and picking things up, overall I think SP fits better for her than SJ.

I have my four-year-old daughter down to two types: ENFJ or INFJ. She's very E at home, or pretty E w/others, as long as my husband or I are w/her. However, if she has a babysitter or goes to someone else's house, even if it's the house of someone she knows well, she won't talk or relax until she's been there at least an hour or more. And even then she doesn't really want to interact too much. So I'm having a hard time deciding which one is the "real her." The others are much easier: she asks a million "Why...?" questions & is always thinking about how concepts go together (N); she's very in touch w/her feelings & is pretty empathetic toward others (F); & quite often doesn't want to hear more than one choice (J).

So you have a four year old also? Very cool, aren't they? Do you think she's has the same personality all along?

When I was pregnant with my daughter she was a jumping bean. I think I knew I had an extravert on my hands even then!

My daughter, who will be 9 on April 12 (Aries, Year of the Rooster!) is extremely extraverted. She seems to be an ENFx or possibly ESFx. I can't tell yet whether she is J or P.

My son, Ian who is 10 (Libra-Scorpio cusp, Year of the Goat), is definitely INTP all the way. In a few years he may discover this site! He would fit right in with all the other INTPs here. He already shows a love of history.

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-03-29 16:16 ]</font>

On 2002-03-29 16:08, Donna Sherman wrote:

On 2002-03-27 21:56, Sherry63 wrote:

On 2002-03-27 06:37, Donna Sherman wrote:
I think I have my daughter's type figured out, Sherry. She's 4 years old now but her personality has been pretty set from day one. She is ESFP. E: this girl's been looking people straight in the eye since she was 3 months old and smiling. She's a nonstop talker. S: Seems to take in information via the senses; likes working on "projects" with her hands. F: already she communicates on a feeling level - uses feeling words, sad, mad, happy. Expresses feelings easily. P: I think P mostly because she's pretty loose and flexible. Although she enjoys cleaning and picking things up, overall I think SP fits better for her than SJ.

I have my four-year-old daughter down to two types: ENFJ or INFJ. She's very E at home, or pretty E w/others, as long as my husband or I are w/her. However, if she has a babysitter or goes to someone else's house, even if it's the house of someone she knows well, she won't talk or relax until she's been there at least an hour or more. And even then she doesn't really want to interact too much. So I'm having a hard time deciding which one is the "real her." The others are much easier: she asks a million "Why...?" questions & is always thinking about how concepts go together (N); she's very in touch w/her feelings & is pretty empathetic toward others (F); & quite often doesn't want to hear more than one choice (J).

So you have a four year old also? Very cool, aren't they? Do you think she's has the same personality all along?

When I was pregnant with my daughter she was a jumping bean. I think I knew I had an extravert on my hands even then!

I have to admit that the older my daughter gets, the more interesting I find her. She just discovered Barbies--at quite a young age, I thought, but I guess I'm behind the times. Is your daughter interested in Barbies too?

She developed stranger anxiety at 5 months & didn't warm up to anyone other than my husband or myself until close to 18 months. She's still reserved around most everyone (except the grandparents) at first, but she does warm up w/people she knows as long as my husband or I are there. That's why I'm still hesitating over E or I--I had her typed as a definite I when she was younger, but now I'm not sure.

We just came back from spending Easter weekend w/my in-laws & she was fine w/her 8-year-old cousin (female) & my in-laws, but very shy w/the rest of the family & wanted to be away from the action (preferably w/said cousin). :smile:

FWIW, my daughter's a Year of the Ox. Stubborn, stubborn, stubborn... :smile:

On 2002-03-29 16:15, Susan Brombacher wrote:
My daughter, who will be 9 on April 12 (Aries, Year of the Rooster!) is extremely extraverted. She seems to be an ENFx or possibly ESFx. I can't tell yet whether she is J or P.

My son, Ian who is 10 (Libra-Scorpio cusp, Year of the Goat), is definitely INTP all the way. In a few years he may discover this site! He would fit right in with all the other INTPs here. He already shows a love of history.

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-03-29 16:16 ]</font>

Susan, were your two in diapers at the same time? Oy vey! :smile:

Sherry "Klatsching all the way..."
_________________
"My library/Was dukedom large enough." --William Shakespeare, 'The Tempest'

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sherry63 on 2002-03-31 21:58 ]</font>

That does seem like a good test. The questions are a bit more penetrating and subtle. My results seem consistent with other tests. I 33%, N 67%, T 1%, P 33%

On 2002-03-31 21:56, Sherry63 wrote:
I have to admit that the older my daughter gets, the more interesting I find her. She just discovered Barbies--at quite a young age, I thought, but I guess I'm behind the times. Is your daughter interested in Barbies too?

Three seems to be the age that girls get into Barbies these days. They go for the princess Barbies -- Rapunzel was big when my daughter was small. When they get to be early school age, they go more for the high school and Generation Girls Barbies.

At four, my daughter used to love to enact elaborate fairy tales (Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella) with her Barbies (we had to have a fair supply of Kens around and getting appropriate costumes was always an issue). Also, it was hard to figure out how to get ugly characters -- we had to settle for dressing the bad characters in silly costumes. Of course, I was the one who had to dress and undress them and play the male parts! :lol:

At seven, she is much more independent now with her doll play. :smile:

I don't know what 1997 was the year of . . . if your daughter's 4, then maybe mind also was born in the year of the Ox!

My girl likes Barbies, coloring books and every kind of crayon, marker, or other things you can draw with as well as glitter, glue, scissors and all else that goes with pre-school projects. Play Doh, unfortunately, since it has a tendancy to disintegrate into the carpet! Books, books, and more books. With toys, she tends to move from one thing to the next pretty easily, so she doesn't necessarily prefer Barbie, though she plays with her!

It's neat to watch her develop. Seems like J vs P is a tough thing to evaluate in kids, though. Being clean and organized seems to be clearly an adult value!

On 2002-03-31 21:57, Sherry63 wrote:


Susan, were your two in diapers at the same time? Oy vey! :smile:

Yep, pretty much! Hate to get into the dreaded discussion of toilet training (I can hear all you guys yawn!), but my daughter pretty much got herself out of diapers when she was only about 18 months old. She just decided one day she was going to use the potty instead. My son was not out of diapers until he was close to almost 3, and wore trainers at night until almost 4! He wasn't delayed, just lazy and on his own schedule. So even though they are 1 1/2 years apart, my son and daughter got out of their diapers at around the same time.

She also talked much earlier than he did, and was using words and babbling when she was only a little over a year old. Ian did not speak at all until almost 3, but when he did, spoke in complete sentences! I remember I was terribly worried about his slowness in this area, and took him to a specialist to have his hearing checked. I do remember one morning shortly before he spoke his first full sentence, actually hearing him "practice" to himself in his room when he thought no one could hear :smile:

Since then, I have frequently heard that many boys have this same pattern of speech development, and that it's especially common in INT types.

My daughter, who is very extraverted, spoke very early and didn't care how she put her words together!

Now, would you ladies like another round of coffee? How about some pastries with that?

_________________
Labels tell you where the box is coming from and where it is headed and are quite helpful. They do not tell you what's inside though they might indicate "fragile", "handle with care", "this is not a Bill", "magnetic medium", etc.--VIRGIL K. SAARI

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-04-02 18:08 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-04-02 18:10 ]</font>

On 2002-04-02 17:00, Donna Sherman wrote:
I don't know what 1997 was the year of . . . if your daughter's 4, then maybe mind also was born in the year of the Ox!
[snip]
It's neat to watch her develop. Seems like J vs P is a tough thing to evaluate in kids, though. Being clean and organized seems to be clearly an adult value!

I worked w/an engineering research group that was 90% mainland Chinese, so I learned a bit about the Chinese years. It seems that they start & end around the beginning of February. So the Year of the Ox would be roughly Feb. '97--Feb. '98.

At eight months, my daughter would stop eating & refuse to start again unless the offending dollop of yogurt on the high-chair tray was wiped up. By a year, she was trying to clean up by herself.

Does anyone know if there's been any research done into Types running in a family? Frinstance, both my husband & I are I & J. Would this predispose our daughter to be those as well?

On 2002-04-02 18:07, Susan Brombacher wrote:

Now, would you ladies like another round of coffee? How about some pastries with that?

I'm always good for another cup! And might you have any chocolate croissants? I'm trying to not eat my daughter's Easter candy... :grin: :grin:

I can't imagine that MBTI types run in families. Especially where there is a generation gap between prophets and civics. I am almost opposite to my parents. Generations is the major factor here, not genetics.

I guess Jung thought that types were hard-wired for life, and maybe they are, but that doesn't automatically mean they are genetic. If they were, then I and my parents would have identical types. I am INTP or INFP and my Mom is ESTJ; my Dad probably ISTJ. N is my strongest score, yet my Mom is clearly S. There are only 16 types. The chances are only 1 in 16 of being of the same type as another person. If types are genetic, then certainly the odds would indicate that children would almost certainly be the same type as at least one of their parents. Yet the odds are, your type is more likely to be the same as one of your friends who may share the same interests and attitudes as you, but may even be of another race or color than you.

I don't know, Eric, my dad's side of the family is chock-full of INTPs, including my dad, and INFPs. My mom's side of the family is chock-full of ESTJs,including my mom, and ESFJs. You can imagine what family events are like with quiet spacey INxPs wandering off in random directions and loud overbearing ESxJs trying to herd everyone into one place! :wink:

Interesting discussion about kids. It's premature for me to try to "type" my 18 month old, so I won't even bother. He's a pretty typical toddler, all SP all the time. Susan, I am amazed that your daughter potty-trained at 18 months! My kid has no awareness what-so-ever of anything going on in his nether-regions! The general guidelines I was given were approximately two years, ten months for girls and three years, two months for boys. So, your kid is quite precocious, but I suspect you know that!

Who was it who has the kid who needs everything wiped spotless? My sister and my little niece was/is like that! My sister turned out to be an ISFJ (or this is what I have surmised -- she is very threatened by this sort of thing). Don't know about my niece because she's only 2 1/2 and I don't see her often enough to be able to "type" her, but I suspect she's probably an ISFJ or ESFJ.

OK, enough with the klatch!

Has there ever been any correlation with MBTI types and geographic regions? I swear everyone I know here in the Portland is some sort of NT or NF. Those who know their type confirm this. Coincidence? I think not! Anyone else live in a "typed" region? Eric, I suspect SF is similar to PDX.

Here in St. Louis, the population seems to be very overwhelmingly dominated by SJ and SP types. Even here at college, SPs and SJs dominate. NTs and NFs are really few and far between here. Perhaps, I should migrate to the Northwest. One thing I noticed is that the North seems to inhabit more Intuitives, while the South has more Sensors. For NTs, Cambridge, and the area around MIT is a place where people can meet people of their own temperament. The very selective colleges also likely harbor many Intuitives. San Francisco is populated by Intuitive types, especially NFs, it seems. Silicon Valley is populated mainly by NTs. Because of the demographic patterns, it is not surprising to me that a city like Portland would have many Intuitives.