No, Marc, it doesn't.

I try to be efficient when replying to posts, but I could probably do better.

I just worry that if I don't refer back to a previous post, my own statement won't make much sense. :smile:

On 2002-04-22 12:56, madscientist wrote:

On 2002-04-22 12:49, Marc Lamb wrote:

On 2002-04-22 12:04, madscientist wrote:

On 2002-04-22 11:24, Kiff '61 wrote:

For me, it was quite simple in the beginning: Dungeons & Dragons.

Once I fell into it, there was no getting away from the INTx men (there were a couple of women in my group, too, but it was almost exclusively guys who were the regular players).

Of course! (kicks self in head)

And then after I quit playing, I discovered that I enjoyed being around INTx guys for other reasons; namely, stimulating conversations that were more thought-provoking than anything I could find elsewhere. And in me, these guys found a willing listener, and someone who often questioned their ideas in light of "real-world" experiences I'd had.

The pattern continues here. :grin:

Again, fascinating.

Perhaps, I should make a list of where and how to meet NTs.

I'll start a prelim one here.

<hr>

If you see anyone playing "Magic: The Gathering", which is a card game, then you have located some NTs.

Go to CompUSA.

Buy Linux, and ask someone to help you install it, or ask them for help using it.

Hang out at 4T.com :smile:

Join the chess (I came in second place at my HS) or computer clubs.

Learn how to code.

If you find anyone with an intense dislike of Tupperware, then he/she is likely an INTP.

If you see someone just laugh for no apparent reason (laughing at their own thoughts), then you've likely seen an INTP.

Go to Star Trek discussion forums, or go to a Star Trek convention, in which 75% of the participants are likely to be INTPs, 24% are the other NTs, and the remaining 1% is the rest of the types.

Go to a LAN Party.

Play 3D shooters such as Quake 3, Counter Strike, Return to Wolfenstein, and Unreal Tournament and strategy games like Civilization 3 and Age of Empires 3, and RPGs like Baulder's Gate and Everquest online.

You can find hardcore NTs at your local Unix or Linux User Groups.

Take a trip to Silicon Valley and/or Cambridge.

Here's a question for all you MBTIers to ponder. Is there something about being introverted and this "quote" business? I mean, looking at my post here, it really seems silly (to me at least) that all this chatter is repeated so ad infinitum: On blah blah, madscientist wrote:

On blah blah, Kiff '61 wrote:.... On blah blah, madscientist wrote:....

Is the need to be thoroughly understood, or perhaps just the way this board is set up? I've seen these quotes go on and on and on, then end with a one line comment. Sometimes it gets to be so ridiculous I bust out laughing, but mostly its just annoying.

Anyway. does being introverted have anything to do with it?

No. :wink: :lol:

Are you sure? :lol:

For once I agree with Marc on something
(you know what I'm talking about; I don't need to quote; and I'm not an extravert)

(I already made the same point on the most active thread, you know, the one about whether we are in 3T or not; a thread which may outlast the 4T itself :wink: )

So why DO you do it, Robert??? :???:

On 2002-04-22 12:13, Kiff '61 wrote:
:lol: :lol:

Okay, I'll confess. My husband used to work for TSR, the company that started the whole Dungeons & Dragons phenomenon. And he still does freelance work for Wizards of the Coast, who started "Magic: the Gathering."

And who now own TSR, including D&D. Finding that out upset me at the time, but I'm now seeing that Wizards of the Coast is doing wonders for D&D with their D20 system. They've even put out a D20 version of Call of Cthulhu under license from Chaosium (who I used to write for, back when they had the license for Ringworld--curse Larry Niven, who sold the game rights a second time when he sold the movie rights. I don't know which was more galling--the movie never being produced or the game being used as the sourcebook for the Man-Kzin Wars series!). But I digress.

Say, Kiff, I'd like to meet your husband. Maybe we could talk shop about writing for the gaming industry.

I used to play-test games way back in the early 80's, and I got to know quite a few people in the RPG industry, which is loaded with INTJ's and INTP's, at least on the creative side.

And I'm trying to become a writer/gametester for Guardians of Order, who publish a series of anime-related games. Looking forward to making two more of my hobbies tax-deductible business ventures/expenses!

Oh, and to be back on topic, I'm also an NT, although a weakly E and strongly J ENTJ. I suppose I'd fit in with all the NTs in gaming. :smile:

BTW, Robert, here's another place you could meet NT (and some INFP) people, including lots of women--anime conventions. You just missed the one in Rosemont, IL, but there will be one in 4 months in Iowa. Here's the link:

http://www.animeiowa.com/

Female anime fans are really big into costume play, including girls in Japanese school uniforms. I know how that turns you on! :wink: Oh, and here's one at Mizzou, Rolla:

http://www.rollanet.org/~cogcon/

A gaming convention with anime rooms--enjoy!

This INTP also invented two games, but neither has been published. I liked going to game conventions a while back.

On 2002-04-23 18:29, Eric A Meece wrote:

So why DO you do it, Robert??? :???:

Likely mostly because of laziness and efficiency.

Right now, I am designing two RPGs. One will be a turn-based one akin to the Final Fantasy series, and another one I plan on developing will be more like Zelda.

Perhaps, we can have a 4T.com Quake deathmatch...

What is more important to your fate-your generation or your MBTI type?

On 2002-05-01 05:47, Tim Walker wrote:
What is more important to your fate-your generation or your MBTI type?

I would say generation as very few of us are islands; but in the matter of what I think of as our ultimate fate both pale when compared to our actions and how we overcome the wickedness that follows. HTH

It seems I'm now on four INTP lists: the one at Boxhosts, the one at Rcs, the Underground one (schism in the ranks, don't ask, the cats refused to be herded or something), and now http://www.fourthturning.com

To change the subject, and this really belongs in WHEELS WITHIN WHEELS, I just finished a great book on the macrocycles, THE GREAT WAVE by Fischer. Am now trying to acquire it for my very own.

Quick question: what type do you all feel Benjamin Franklin was?

On 2002-05-15 12:03, Kiff '61 wrote:

Quick question: what type do you all feel Benjamin Franklin was?

Kiff, the very inventive and unconventional Franklin was a textbook ENTP. No doubt about it.

I was pretty sure he was a xNTP of some sort; my only real question was whether he was INTP or ENTP. :smile:

I just finished a biography of Franklin not long ago. What a great man. Possibly our greatest American ever.

On 2002-05-15 13:31, Kiff '61 wrote:
I was pretty sure he was a xNTP of some sort; my only real question was whether he was INTP or ENTP. :smile:

I just finished a biography of Franklin not long ago. What a great man. Possibly our greatest American ever.

Hudson and Riso consider him to be an Enneagram 7, which would make him ESTP or ENTP. There are very few Ixxx Type 7s, making our own Angeli Primlani a very rare bird indeed!

#7 seems odd for Franklin, a classic ENTP, who said a penny saved is a penny earned, and was a frugal and practical Capricorn/Saturn. #7s are the type given to excess, enthusiasm and indulgence; like Jupiter, and ESFP; not ENTP.

Try this if you're not sure if you're left/right brained or auditory or visual.

I'm slightly left-brained and very visual, the description of which sounds pretty much NTP.

http://www.rcw.bc.ca/test/Brain.exe

On 2002-05-15 23:21, Eric A Meece wrote:

#7 seems odd for Franklin, a classic ENTP, who said a penny saved is a penny earned, and was a frugal and practical Capricorn/Saturn. #7s are the type given to excess, enthusiasm and indulgence; like Jupiter, and ESFP; not ENTP.

Eric, #7 seems to have one of the strongest type correlations and it correlates to ExxP. That would include ENTP, ENFP, ESTP, and ESFP. Your characterization of #7 applies every bit as much to ENTP as it does to ESFP. And there is no necessary conflict with being frugal either. The point of the ENTP's frugality is to ensure that he always has enough for his spontaneous indulgences. He may only have one ragged shirt in his wardrobe, but he can always afford a beer. :wink:

I think I am beginning to understand my own INF personality type better than I ever have. There's a pattern of pleasure/pain and intense emotion that must be gone through to tap into the creative impulse. Inspiration for INF personalities requires intense emotion--both positive and negative--to feed and nurture it. A life without intense highs and lows is a life that does not inspire, a life that we find more difficult to learn from. With inadequate emotional stimulation, INF types may turn to drugs, alcohol, gambling, promiscuous or kinky sex or other questionable addictions not so much to dull our feelings, but to experience them more intensely.

One of the reasons so many INFx types types feel so dissatisfied with life is that real life is basically mundane and pointless and squelches any creative vision or expression. Most jobs, for instance, require you to buckle down, shut up, and do what you're told, and kiss up to people that are stupid or have less vision than you do. Most marriages, which may have once been full of passion and sexual creativity, settle into a routine that, for INF types, can become painfully dull. The material realities of bills, car payments, child care, and disciplining kids take precedence over the fun and adventure of romance. In our society, people are always rushing around watching clocks, adhering to schedules, and having to put up with absurd and petty bullshit so they can keep themselves fed. The newspapers, television and media in general are chock-full of the tired, the mundane, the stupid, and the needlessly tragic. In between all this is all the shallow and meaningless fluff, the celebrity worship, the Cult of Material Success.

In my own life, I've often been very depressed, sometimes dangerously depressed. These periods of depression are interspersed with moments of great joy. While this may seem like a handicap, it really isn't. I've been at my most creative and visionary when just emerging from a particuarly harrowing emotional rollercoaster ride. When things are even-keel, I feel bored and uninspired, and often find myself unconsciously creating drama in my life to spice things up. Sometimes this can take an imaginary form and fantasies explode. These fantasies paint a more seductive and far more interesting alternate reality, but this is only a temporary solution, and is bound to lead to disappointment when physical reality, as it always does, comes down and hits me like a sledgehammer in the gut. The effect of this "wake-up call" is much like coming off a euphoric and I literally crash, sometimes for weeks or months, sometimes for just a few days, sometimes only for a few hours. It all depends on the gravity and force of the impact...as well as how far from reality I had allowed my mind to wander.

When I was much younger, I didn't understand these mood swings, and found it much more difficult to deal with these emotional meltdowns. With increasing age, I find the crashes force me to regroup and put the brakes on my runaway fantasies, while at the same time assessing the true meaning of whatever has just happened prior to the meltdown, and what I can possibly learn from it. Almost always, the lesson is something extremely valuable and I come out of it with a new artistic vision and a changed and more mature attitude in general.

So it doesn't always suck being an INFP. Sometimes I actually think I'm fortunate.

_________________
All of life is an illusion. The only reality is how you interpret the illusion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Heliotrope on 2002-06-28 20:54 ]</font>

60% right brain, 75% visual; surprised?

That link doesn't work for me. It makes my computer do strange things but doesn't take me anywhere.

I certainly understand, S-, i mean Heliotrope. But even during those level times there is this sense that you are watching it from a slight distance, and a dirty little imp is sitting on your shoulder, who from time to time whispers thoughts into your ear about how ridiculous and strange and hilarious everyone is--all zoned in on their nonsensical missions--and moving through life like the horse with blinders who must stare at rear end of the horse in front of them all the live long day (and LIKES it like that, dammit!).

This dirty little imp is an endless source of entertainment, though. But listening to often to him can lead to trouble.

The other thing about my experience as an INFP is the self-loathing, which became a justification for all manner of overly risky behavior, which in turn brought on more of the internal greek chorus of auto-condemnation. Such an outlook had made it difficult to be in any meaningful relationship for the better part of my life until I learned to keep that darker side in check.

How about you, kindred spirit?

On 2002-06-30 12:24, Coelacanth wrote:
I certainly understand, S-, i mean Heliotrope. But even during those level times there is this sense that you are watching it from a slight distance, and a dirty little imp is sitting on your shoulder, who from time to time whispers thoughts into your ear about how ridiculous and strange and hilarious everyone is--all zoned in on their nonsensical missions--and moving through life like the horse with blinders who must stare at rear end of the horse in front of them all the live long day (and LIKES it like that, dammit!).

This dirty little imp is an endless source of entertainment, though. But listening to often to him can lead to trouble.

The other thing about my experience as an INFP is the self-loathing, which became a justification for all manner of overly risky behavior, which in turn brought on more of the internal greek chorus of auto-condemnation. Such an outlook had made it difficult to be in any meaningful relationship for the better part of my life until I learned to keep that darker side in check.

How about you, kindred spirit?

I couldn't have said it better myself. Were we separated at birth?

That little imp sometimes keeps you laughing when otherwise you'd be crying in your beer. He comes in handy, that's for sure.
Keep on posting! :smile:

When I take the online versions, many the questions I am not sure about at all because they would have different answers depending on the situation. That's what you get when you are 15, I guess. I know this much: IxTx. I usually get ISTJ but I don't seem to fit parts of the description.

I took a test *somewhere* that was something like "what astrological sign *should* you be?" and I got Taurus. I don't know what types are like that on the MBTI.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexMnWi on 2002-07-12 11:13 ]</font>

My top results:
1. INTP
2. ISTJ
3. ENTP
4. ESTJ

Notice the N and P are the least defined because the next type is ISTJ. The T was in all of the top 8 types.