On 2002-07-12 11:05, AlexMnWi wrote:

When I take the online versions, many the questions I am not sure about at all because they would have different answers depending on the situation. That's what you get when you are 15, I guess. I know this much: IxTx. I usually get ISTJ but I don't seem to fit parts of the description.

If you do not fit the description, then it's not you. But those tests are overrated. They mistype more often than people realize and we have seen it on this board. Try this:

Read the descriptions and try to rank them in order of how well they describe you. In fact there should only be a a few of them that really fit you, right? Which ones remotely fit you? We can look for common threads in the types you pick and possibly isolate your type.

Actually, try this test which was linked way back in this thread (assuming that it still works):

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/mmdi-re/mmdi.htm

What this does, among others things, is isolate your dominant function and, when paired with your indicated auxiliary, we know with greater certainty what type you are. I think this spits out a bunch of information but be sure to post the ordering of your functions and the ordering of the types it picks for you (with the scores so that we know what is clearly stronger than something else).

I took a test *somewhere* that was something like "what astrological sign *should* you be?" and I got Taurus. I don't know what types are like that on the MBTI.

I don't know much about that but I'll try to look up some of the descriptions posted here and see if I can grasp it. What other "signs" rate highly with you? Taurus and what else?

I took that test twice, and got two very different results. ISTP and INFJ.

On 2002-07-12 13:10, Chris Loyd '82 wrote:

I took that test twice, and got two very different results. ISTP and INFJ.

Which test is that? Take that one I linked for Alex and list your ordering for the eight functions as well as for the sixteen types, and try to copy the numerical values as well.

BTW, ISTP and INFJ are consistent with INTP in a roundabout way. ISTP shares Ti as a dominant function with INTP, but uses the other auxiliary. An INFJ uses Ti and Fe just like an INTP but in reverse order. So in a roundabout way, you are corroborating INTP.

Okay, here's what I got on that one.
ISTJ: 263
ISTP: 248
ESTP: 212
ESTJ: 209
ISFJ: 208
INTP: 178
ESFP: 157
ENTJ: 139
ISFP: 127
INTJ: 109
ESFJ: 88
ENTP: 58
INFP: 57
INFJ: 54
ENFJ: 18
ENFP: 3


Si: 19
Ti: 17
Se: 14
Te: 13
Fi: 6
Ni: 5
Fe: 2
Ne: 0

The one thing I don't like about the ISTJ descriptions is that I am supposed to continue with things until they are finished. I do get things done if I am supposed to for school, for example. But, I am on summer break, and when I decide to do something that takes time, I rarely finish it during the summer and I have no schedule whatsoever. Here's what I think:

School Year: ISTJ
Summer: ISTP (It is 2nd highest)

Evidently, "J" is the least defined in me.

The test I took as far as the Taurus thing goes was the type that puts your result on a screen... it doesn't list the order of the results.

The test you linked for Alex.

Third try:

Top 4: INFJ, INTJ, ENFP, ENFJ

ISTJ 40
ISFJ 60
INFJ 247
INTJ 227

ISTP 73
ISFP 117
INFP 202
INTP 158

ESTP 19
ESFP 39
ENFP 226
ENTP 206

ESTJ 64
ESFJ 108
ENFJ 193
ENTJ 149

Fe 11
Fi 12
Ne 17
Ni 19
Se 0
Si 2
Te 7
Ti 8

On 2002-07-12 18:30, AlexMnWi wrote:

The one thing I don't like about the ISTJ descriptions is that I am supposed to continue with things until they are finished. I do get things done if I am supposed to for school, for example. But, I am on summer break, and when I decide to do something that takes time, I rarely finish it during the summer and I have no schedule whatsoever. Here's what I think:

Alex, what you have described is a very "P"-like trait. I am not sure but I do not think that an ISTJ would have your relaxed attitude about what you do, even in the summer. They are usually rock-solid dependable about getting things done and meeting schedule.

Judging from your and Chris' test results, I'd say that test is pretty useless at the moment. I cannot make heads or tails of what you truly are because you picked up both attitudes of the same two functions as your top four. Had there been a gap between them, things might be clearer.

What about the test you originally took (was it Kiersey?). What percentages did you get? The point about that one is that the functions which score at the end of their scale are pretty clear while those that score close to their midpoint are debatable.
That test might at least make it clear that you are an I and a T, for example. But it would be good information to know where you are on that J-P scale.

On 2002-07-12 20:20, Stonewall Patton wrote:

On 2002-07-12 18:30, AlexMnWi wrote:

The one thing I don't like about the ISTJ descriptions is that I am supposed to continue with things until they are finished. I do get things done if I am supposed to for school, for example. But, I am on summer break, and when I decide to do something that takes time, I rarely finish it during the summer and I have no schedule whatsoever. Here's what I think:

Alex, what you have described is a very "P"-like trait. I am not sure but I do not think that an ISTJ would have your relaxed attitude about what you do, even in the summer. They are usually rock-solid dependable about getting things done and meeting schedule.

Judging from your and Chris' test results, I'd say that test is pretty useless at the moment. I cannot make heads or tails of what you truly are because you picked up both attitudes of the same two functions as your top four. Had there been a gap between them, things might be clearer.

What about the test you originally took (was it Kiersey?). What percentages did you get? The point about that one is that the functions which score at the end of their scale are pretty clear while those that score close to their midpoint are debatable.
That test might at least make it clear that you are an I and a T, for example. But it would be good information to know where you are on that J-P scale.

I seriously think its near 50-50 because as far as going to school, etc. I need a schedule and I use it well; never tardy, etc. I also have my HS classes planned out (although very changeable) all the way through senior year.

Maybe the situation I described is that I often end up procrastinating and I think to myself (I'll do my homework later, but I'll get it done). I do start late, but I usually give up quickly. I think that it had more to do with how tired I was, so I would be unable to concentrate, provoking frustration?

I think it is almost to the sense that I am a J in long-term, but a P in short-term. I have been doing better at fulfilling long-term goals than short-term goals.

I can corraberate (sp?) Alex's descriptions, up to a point of course. I enjoy planning what college courses I'm going to take, all the way to up graduation. I also enjoy mock business distribution systems (percentage of market share does my product XXX have, product YYY, etc), based on planned obscolence and correspondant price devaluations. I planned out an alternate history for Apple, where in 1999 they would be still be selling the Apple ][e for $50 and free 1-800 tech support, as well as all their other, later, machines.

Stonewall, I have come out as an INTP on virtually all tests.

By the way, does anyone here have a fascination with other natural human languages, and writing systems? Omniglot is a favorite. Love that D'ni alphabet.

Alex,

Procrastination is a "P" thing. It really does sound to me like you are a "P." Furthermore, the closeness to "J" suggests to me that you are a dominant judger as opposed to a dominant perceiver. You would be a dominant judger who is not a J (i.e. is a P). In other words, you would be one of the four IxxP types. I take it that you are certain that you are introverted?

If we place any trust in that test you took, it looks like you use T to judge rather than F. And Kiersey may corroborate this. So it looks like you might be either INTP or ISTP. Either way, you would be mechanically inclined but an ISTP prefers to work with his hands while an INTP prefers to work with his mind. If you are an ISTP, then you probably like to work on car engines or build structures (i.e. do carpentry). If you are an INTP, then you are probably drawn to using your knowledge of physics to design a propulsion system or to design a house (just to match the two examples given).

If anything, the tests suggest that you are an ISTP. However it seems more likely that you are an INTP if you are drawn to this site. In fact, at 15, you have not fully developed your auxiliary yet and that may explain why you come up as S rather than N. I am not certain though. Robert Reed may be able to do more with this data.

When I take the online versions, many the questions I am not sure about at all because they would have different answers depending on the situation. That's what you get when you are 15, I guess. I know this much: IxTx. I usually get ISTJ but I don't seem to fit parts of the description.

This seems to imply that you lean more towards P than J. Indecisiveness is a trait that is very prevalent among Perceivers.

My top results:
1. INTP
2. ISTJ
3. ENTP
4. ESTJ

Notice the N and P are the least defined because the next type is ISTJ. The T was in all of the top 8 types.

INTP - Ti Ne Si Fe
ISTJ - Si Te Fi Ne
ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si
ESTJ - Te Si Ne Fi

As we can see here, in the primary axis, Tx is present in all. Since you are certain that you are an introvert, let's narrow it down to INTP and ISTJ, and add the other introverted types with Tx in their primary axis. These include ISTP (Ti Se Ni Fe) and INTJ (Ni Te Fi Se).

I seriously think its near 50-50 because as far as going to school, etc. I need a schedule and I use it well; never tardy, etc. I also have my HS classes planned out (although very changeable) all the way through senior year.

Maybe the situation I described is that I often end up procrastinating and I think to myself (I'll do my homework later, but I'll get it done). I do start late, but I usually give up quickly. I think that it had more to do with how tired I was, so I would be unable to concentrate, provoking frustration?

That eliminates ISTJ, and leaves ISTP, INTP, and INTJ. INTPs and ISTPs are natural procrastinators (my INTP professor of beginning C programming proclaimed that he believes in procrastination).

INTJs can procrastinate too. If they do procrastinate, then they either have a form of ADD, or they have an underdeveloped auxiliary Te function.

When you think to yourself, what do you think about? If you usually think about what is, then you are likely an ISTP. If you think about what could be, then you are likely an INTx.

The one thing I don't like about the ISTJ descriptions is that I am supposed to continue with things until they are finished. I do get things done if I am supposed to for school, for example. But, I am on summer break, and when I decide to do something that takes time, I rarely finish it during the summer and I have no schedule whatsoever.

If there is no schedule during summer, than that likely eliminates INTJ. Not finishing projects is something that plagues xxxP types. Having Ne or Se in your primary axis promotes exploration over closure. Likely, INTP or an ISTP will not complete a project unless it is necessary. The single-mindness (sp?) of an INTJ will drive him/her to complete whatever they set their sights on. We can now eliminate the INTJ.

Stonewall -- If anything, the tests suggest that you are an ISTP. However it seems more likely that you are an INTP if you are drawn to this site. In fact, at 15, you have not fully developed your auxiliary yet and that may explain why you come up as S rather than N. I am not certain though. Robert Reed may be able to do more with this data.

I have to agree here. IxTP seems definite. ISTP seems more likely, but not by much. What is likely is that you have significantly developed your opposite perceiving function. You have likely learned how to use your tertiary Ni, assuming that you are an ISTP. But of course, Stonewall's implication that your auxiliary could be underdeveloped is also likely. If so, then we would witness a very weird occurrence, in which the tertiary function exercises more influence than the auxiliary. But I'm not sure if that is even possible.

I would say that you are an ISTP with the SvN scale near the center.

I would suppose I am an INTP. If I start a project on my own, I usually don't finish it. But, if I have to for school, for example, I always do it, although I don't like it. Does anyone know where I can link to descriptions?

I've narrowed it down to INTx. I think it could still be a J because I am not very tolerant of change (when it affects me), for example, moving. But, after quite some time, I am used to the idea of moving and I look forward to it. Then, if something were to happen so that I would not move, I would not tolerate that well, even though I would have preferred it at the beginning of the ordeal. This has happened before. But again, as far as my daily work goes, I procrastinate, big time. I could still go either way with the P or J depending on the situation.

On 2002-07-13 12:21, AlexMnWi wrote:

I've narrowed it down to INTx. I think it could still be a J because I am not very tolerant of change (when it affects me), for example, moving. But, after quite some time, I am used to the idea of moving and I look forward to it. Then, if something were to happen so that I would not move, I would not tolerate that well, even though I would have preferred it at the beginning of the ordeal. This has happened before. But again, as far as my daily work goes, I procrastinate, big time. I could still go either way with the P or J depending on the situation.

You need to read the INTP and INTJ descriptions and see what fits. However it sounds like you may have already and you are still uncertain. You say that you procrastinate big time which means that you have to be a P big time. It looks like INTP to me.

I'll tell you what. Do you have ADD-like traits? For example, do you have a remarkably low boredom threshold but alternately hyperfocus on something you like doing, concentrating more intensely than anybody you know? If so, you have to be INTP.

On 2002-07-13 12:44, Stonewall Patton wrote:

On 2002-07-13 12:21, AlexMnWi wrote:

I've narrowed it down to INTx. I think it could still be a J because I am not very tolerant of change (when it affects me), for example, moving. But, after quite some time, I am used to the idea of moving and I look forward to it. Then, if something were to happen so that I would not move, I would not tolerate that well, even though I would have preferred it at the beginning of the ordeal. This has happened before. But again, as far as my daily work goes, I procrastinate, big time. I could still go either way with the P or J depending on the situation.

You need to read the INTP and INTJ descriptions and see what fits. However it sounds like you may have already and you are still uncertain. You say that you procrastinate big time which means that you have to be a P big time. It looks like INTP to me.

I'll tell you what. Do you have ADD-like traits? For example, do you have a remarkably low boredom threshold but alternately hyperfocus on something you like doing, concentrating more intensely than anybody you know? If so, you have to be INTP.

I am bored a lot but I have trouble concentrating. I don't know if this is because of personality however (the lack of concentration) because I don't get enough sleep so I am often tired.

A P-Like trait in me is that during the summer, I just go to bed whenever. However, it becomes J-Like in the morning because I set my alarm clock to wake up at 8 a.m. even during summer.

I found some links for MBTI and/or Enneagram addicts:


Here is a detailed report which attempts to tie MBTI and the Enneagram together. It also adds another axis leading to some sort of leadership analysis (I have not read it through yet):

http://cbae.nmsu.edu/~dboje/teaching...leadership.htm



This may or may not be the same site:

http://cbae.nmsu.edu/~dboje/teaching/338/index.html



Yet another site:

http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/index2.html



A great list of links:

http://www.trytel.com/~jfalt/web-mbti.html



More links to various tests:

http://www.davideck.com/cgi-bin/test...on=personality



Here is a philosophy test which was linked from the top site linked above:

http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/ross-barger

The analysis at that site suggested a possible correlation between idealism and N (since it is associated with NF and NT), but held off on asserting any more substantial correlations between temperament/personality and philosophy. However it occurs to me that there may be generational correlations. The four philosophy types are as follows:

Idealism
Realism
Pragmatism
Existentialism

Certainly idealism is associated with Prophets (Idealists) and realism is associated with Nomads (Reactives). Might it be that pragmatism correlates with Heroes (Civics) and existentialism with Artists (Adaptives) or vice-versa?

Kiff, since you consider me "the most idealistic Nomad [you] have ever known," you may be interested to know that I am an idealist first and a realist second. (Then existentialism rates a weak third and pragmatism an even weaker last place.) I suspect that the idealism is tied to the INTP temperament, irrespective of generation. However the strong secondary showing for realism may reflect the generational influence of the Nomad archetype. At least it would be interesting to compare the primary and secondary choices for INTPs of different generations. For example, is Mr. Saari by any chance an idealist first and either a pragmatist or existentialist second? Your ISTJ-ness will likely favor pragmatism or realism or both.

BTW, this site also classifies George W. Bush as an ISTJ. Now I cannot believe that! Would ISTJs Kiff and Jenny have opinions on this? To my mind, the man is an SP all the way and most likely an SFP. E/I is a close call but I favor I. Therefore I see George W. Bush as an ISFP and, in fact, the site references author Otto Kroeger as having classified Junior as an ISFP. However there is yet another site I came across in all those links which also called Junior an ISTJ. It looks like Otto and I are all alone in calling him an ISFP but I stand by it. I in no way see ISTJ.

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

I found some links for MBTI and/or Enneagram addicts:
BTW, this site also classifies George W. Bush as an ISTJ. Now I cannot believe that! Would ISTJs Kiff and Jenny have opinions on this? To my mind, the man is an SP all the way and most likely an SFP. E/I is a close call but I favor I. Therefore I see George W. Bush as an ISFP and, in fact, the site references author Otto Kroeger as having classified Junior as an ISFP. However there is yet another site I came across in all those links which also called Junior an ISTJ. It looks like Otto and I are all alone in calling him an ISFP but I stand by it. I in no way see ISTJ.

I dunno. W's insistance in getting rid of Saddam once and for all sounds pretty J to me. He can be pretty dogged insistant when he wants something (E2K, the tax cut, war in Iraq), which, whatever your opinion of the issues at hand, strikes me more like J and less like P.

Also, just because he presents an affable facade doesn't mean that there isn't a calculating mind in there. So he could be ISTJ.

Of course, I'm not intimate with the President, so what do I know? :lol:

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Here is a philosophy test which was linked from the top site linked above:

http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/ross-barger

The analysis at that site suggested a possible correlation between idealism and N (since it is associated with NF and NT), but held off on asserting any more substantial correlations between temperament/personality and philosophy. However it occurs to me that there may be generational correlations. The four philosophy types are as follows:

Idealism
Realism
Pragmatism
Existentialism

Certainly idealism is associated with Prophets (Idealists) and realism is associated with Nomads (Reactives). Might it be that pragmatism correlates with Heroes (Civics) and existentialism with Artists (Adaptives) or vice-versa?

Oh, goody! More tests to take! :-D

Well, I took this one and scored the following:

Idealism: 7
Realism: 1
Pragmatism: 7
Existentialism: 6

Pretty eclectic responses, eh? Maybe it reflects the fact that I'm a Boom/X cusper. Also that I've been in spiritual flux for the past year or so.

Kiff, since you consider me "the most idealistic Nomad [you] have ever known," you may be interested to know that I am an idealist first and a realist second. (Then existentialism rates a weak third and pragmatism an even weaker last place.)

I wonder if pragmatism is related to SJ. Seems logical.

BTW, this site also classifies George W. Bush as an ISTJ. Now I cannot believe that! Would ISTJs Kiff and Jenny have opinions on this?

He's too outwardly emotional and not self-critical enough to be an ISTJ. He ain't no wonk. ;-)

To my mind, the man is an SP all the way and most likely an SFP. E/I is a close call but I favor I. Therefore I see George W. Bush as an ISFP and, in fact, the site references author Otto Kroeger as having classified Junior as an ISFP. However there is yet another site I came across in all those links which also called Junior an ISTJ. It looks like Otto and I are all alone in calling him an ISFP but I stand by it. I in no way see ISTJ.

I can go along with ISFP. I might see him as closer to ESFP than you do, though.

Originally Posted by The Wonk

I dunno. W's insistance in getting rid of Saddam once and for all sounds pretty J to me. He can be pretty dogged insistant when he wants something (E2K, the tax cut, war in Iraq), which, whatever your opinion of the issues at hand, strikes me more like J and less like P.

Agreed, but all he ever does is read cue cards written up by Js. To my mind, an ISTJ would not need cue cards; he would be hands on. But Junior has never been hands on and has always played the role of front man throughout his "career." He is the guy who fluffs up the customers before they are brought in to conduct the actual business with actual ISTJs. Additionally, he is emotive (SP and F, I think) enough to pull off the act with the cue cards. An ISTJ would look and feel like an idiot reading those cards ("evil-doers"? come on! hehe), throw the cards out, and take charge of the situation.

Also, just because he presents an affable facade doesn't mean that there isn't a calculating mind in there. So he could be ISTJ.

It is not that whether his mind is calculating, but rather what it is calculating. An ISTJ might be calculating how to take out Hussein while meeting some sort of budgetary limitation. Junior is simply calculating how much time it is going to take to read through his cue cards so that he can call Domino's and order lunch!

Clearly, the whole flavor of this administration and the words Junior uses are SJ. So the question is: are they Junior's words or somebody else's? Is Junior in charge or is someone else? If one answers in the former in both cases, then Junior is an STJ. If one answers in the latter in both cases, then Junior is an SFP. It is just amazing that such a divided perception exists in the country.

I've looked at lots of MBTI information online and taken several online tests, and I'm almost positive that I'm an ENFP. Moderate E, strong N, more of a borderline F, and a strong P. I suppose I could possibly be ENTP, especially since I remember reading that ENTP and ENFP share a dominant Ne function. I can relate to both descriptions, but I think ENFP is the closest match.

I have a question that I've been wondering about for a while. Considering that people with an N preference consist of only 25 % of the general population, would clusters of N types in families suggest that certain types and/or preferences are inherited? My own extended family contains a large number of Intuitives, especially NFs. Is that coincidence, hereditary, or perhaps something else?

Originally Posted by Kiff '61

Well, I took this one and scored the following:

Idealism: 7
Realism: 1
Pragmatism: 7
Existentialism: 6

Pretty eclectic responses, eh? Maybe it reflects the fact that I'm a Boom/X cusper. Also that I've been in spiritual flux for the past year or so.

That is pretty cool. If there is anything to the generational correlation, then that idealism should be your Boomer influence, given that idealism is not associated with SJ. I would think that your temperament favors pragmatism and then the idealism ought to be a generational influence. But look at the existentialism. Although, no specific correlation was argued, I suspect that is more NJ than anything else. I don't know. We would have to see more people's results to tell anything.

I wonder if pragmatism is related to SJ. Seems logical.

Yes, I think that correlation chart showed something of a correlation though I guess the site's author did not recognize it as substantial.

He's too outwardly emotional and not self-critical enough to be an ISTJ. He ain't no wonk. ;-)

I can go along with ISFP. I might see him as closer to ESFP than you do, though.

I can go with ESFP. I am firm on SFP and the E/I is a toss-up. ESFP may be more likely than ISFP.

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Here is a philosophy test which was linked from the top site linked above:

http://www.nd.edu/~rbarger/ross-barger

The analysis at that site suggested a possible correlation between idealism and N (since it is associated with NF and NT), but held off on asserting any more substantial correlations between temperament/personality and philosophy. However it occurs to me that there may be generational correlations. The four philosophy types are as follows:

Idealism
Realism
Pragmatism
Existentialism

Certainly idealism is associated with Prophets (Idealists) and realism is associated with Nomads (Reactives). Might it be that pragmatism correlates with Heroes (Civics) and existentialism with Artists (Adaptives) or vice-versa?

... I suspect that the idealism is tied to the INTP temperament, irrespective of generation. However the strong secondary showing for realism may reflect the generational influence of the Nomad archetype. At least it would be interesting to compare the primary and secondary choices for INTPs of different generations. For example, is Mr. Saari by any chance an idealist first and either a pragmatist or existentialist second?

I came out Idealist 10. Pragmatist 6. Realist/Existentialist 3/3. HTH

I'll finally bite as you guys have talking about Myers-Briggs forever and I have only the vaguest idea of what it is (in my day we took the Minnesota Multiphasic which kept repeating the question about whether one had black and tarry stools). Anyhow, I took the online test linked above and came out an E (22) N (44) T (44) J (11). On the philosophy one, I was Idealism = 0, Realism = 10, Pragmatism = 9, and Existentialism = 3. Any comments?

Pax,

Dave Krein '42