Originally Posted by eameece

MYERS-BRIGGS TEMPERAMENT TYPES
Raw scores I came up with months ago:
INFJ ? counselor 55S/20R

Centered in the Metaphysics sector? Wow. Neisha, do you score way up there?

ESFP ? performer 35M/50E

On the border between Epicureans and Sense-Perception.

ENTJ - fieldmarshal 20M/55R

Mathematics sector. Vince?

ENFP ? enthusiast 15S/20E

With a name like that, this would be a perfect match for Mr. Saari. This is the Pagan sector.

ISFJ ? protector 5S/10E

Pagans again? ISFJ?

INFP ? monk/healer 50S/35E

Border between Transcendence and Romanticism. Might Susan be way up there?

ESTP ? entrepreneur 55M/20E

Positivism. That is a long way down.

INTP ? architect-theorist 20S/15R

Theory/Ideas.

ENFJ ? teacher 10S/5R

Theory/Ideas? ENFJ??? That seems strange to me but I do not know.

ISTP ? artisan 10M/5E

Pragmatism/Utilitarianism.

ISFP ? bucolic 20S/55E

Bucolic? Sounds like one of Mr. Saari's Bovine-Americans. Chaos/Nominalism.

ISTJ ? inspector 15M/20R

Explanation/Manipulation.

ENTP ? inventor 5M/10R

Explanation/Manipulation.

ESFJ ? provider 20M/15E

Verification/Agnosticism.

ESTJ ? supervisor 50M/35R

Border between Reliability/Mechanics and Necessity/Automism.

INTJ ? mastermind 35S/50R

Border between Essence/Forms and Truth/Eternal Values

In my chart however, I moved the highest scores, especially the E scores, more to the center, because E types are common, while extreme philosophies are rarely held.

This was based on the following
Scoring of MB Types on the wheel:
E = 4M, I = 4S, N = 3S/2R, F = 3E/2S
J = 4R, P = 4E, S = 3M/2E, T = 3R/2M
+ dominant function scores:
N = 2S/1R F = 2E/1S
S = 2M/1E T = 2R/1M
All scores X 5

OK, it is the factoring in of E, I, J, and P with which I quibble. But you know that. That is too much for me to think about at the moment though.

Originally Posted by eameece

My philosophy and MBTI correlations related to Strauss/Howe archetypes:
(this list is more organized around the wheel too)

going counter-clockwise from the "top:"

INFJ ? counselor 55S/20R - prophet
ENFJ ? teacher 10S/5R -prophet - moderate (moderate = more mixed)
INTJ ? mastermind 35S/50R - prophet/hero
INTP ? architect-theorist 20S/15R - prophet/hero - moderate
ENTJ - fieldmarshal 20M/55R - hero
ENTP ? inventor 5M/10R - hero - moderate
ESTJ ? supervisor 50M/35R - hero/nomad
ISTJ ? inspector 15M/20R - hero/nomad - moderate
ESTP ? entrepreneur 55M/20E - nomad
ISTP ? artisan 10M/5E - nomad - moderate
ESFP ? performer 35M/50E - nomad/artist
ESFJ ? provider 20M/15E - nomad/artist - moderate
ISFP ? bucolic 20S/55E - artist
ISFJ ? protector 5S/10E - artist - moderate
INFP ? monk/healer 50S/35E - artist/prophet
ENFP ? enthusiast 15S/20E - artist/prophet - moderate

Eric, how did you arrive at these? Just by equating N with Prophets, S with Nomads, etc.?

I found a few minutes, so I took Eric's (good to see you posting again, Eric), test and I came out:

7R 36M

which puts me in with Bertrand Russell and George Santayana (heroes of my undergraduate days) and Marx (never a hero of mine, but - whatever). Can anyone tell me if his fits with the results of all the other tests I took that you guys are throwing around?

Pax,

Dave Krein '42

Originally Posted by David Krein

I found a few minutes, so I took Eric's (good to see you posting again, Eric), test and I came out:

7R 36M

which puts me in with Bertrand Russell and George Santayana (heroes of my undergraduate days) and Marx (never a hero of mine, but - whatever). Can anyone tell me if his fits with the results of all the other tests I took that you guys are throwing around?

If you are in with your heroes, I'd say that Eric's test put you in the right place (which is great). But you do not seem to be where Eric expected ENTJs to show up. However I think placement of Es is still an open question, much more so than Is, and I think Eric will agree. But this is an interesting and very helpful score. Thanks. Let's see what Eric makes of it.

Thanks Dave.

I would say ETJ fits well, but I'm a bit surprised if Dave is an N with that score on my test. Then again, anyone who posts here is likely to have at least a moderately strong N.

In case anybody else missed this, here is a page wherein Eric explains his questions:

http://www.california.com/~eameece/explainquestions.htm

It really is a big help and I did change a few of my answers. Eric, new result with improved understanding:


35R, 27S


There are still a few answers upon which I am not firmly settled but this is going to be very close. I have two questions starred and if I shifted one or both responses, it would elevate my S score by 2-4 points while reducing my R score by 2 (33R, 31S). But there are a few others on here which may swing things more wildly, I do not know. However note that I do appear fairly firmly in your Truth/Eternal Values sector where it seems like I should. Good job, Eric.

Eric:

I have quickly culled some other names. Would you care to place any of these on your chart such that we get a fuller picture? Forgive me if I have inadvertently repeated any already placed and feel free to add anybody not listed:


Abelard
Anaximander
Anaximenes
Antisthenes
Aristippus
Bakunin
Berkeley
Boethius
Calvin
Comte
Confucius
Dante
Diogenes
Edwards, Jonathan
Emerson
Empedocles
Engels
Epicurus
Erasmus
Feuerbach
Fichte
Goethe
Johnson, Samuel
Kierkegaard
Leucippus
Luther
Machiavelli
Marcus Aurelius
Montesquieu
Occam
Pelagius
Protagoras
Pyrrho
Rousseau
Schelling
Spencer
Thales
Xenophanes
Zeno
Zoroaster
Zwingli

I took Eric's test and came out 31R, 6S. (I'm ENTP).

My husband, who is ESTP, came out 9R, 14S.

I'd have thought he'd come out substantially different from me since he's sensing.

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Eric:

I have quickly culled some other names. Would you care to place any of these on your chart such that we get a fuller picture? Forgive me if I have inadvertently repeated any already placed and feel free to add anybody not listed:

I don't know all of these with very good precision. I'll place those whom I know with a ? if I'm doubtful. My memory doesn't serve me well on some of these. dk = don't know him and/or his philosophy cf already placed; see other list

Abelard near Aquinas somewhere; slightly right of him; 30S, 10R?
Anaximander I don't remember; below in the M realm?
Anaximenes same?? I am less well-informed about the ancients
Antisthenes dk
Aristippus dk
Bakunin dk anarchist; don't know his metaphysics
Berkeley 60S, 35E
Boethius dk
Calvin near Augustine; maybe even a bit higher and further left
Comte about 35M, 5E
Confucius probably 15S, 25R ???
Dante put him up there with the other Medievals and religious figures
Diogenes dk
Edwards, Jonathan probably up near Augustine
Emerson probably near Buddha; say 40S, 20E
Empedocles cf; I'm still hazy on him; somewhere near 20M, 20R (?)
Engels right there with Marx, no doubt
Epicurus cf
Erasmus maybe close to Voltaire; up a bit??
Feuerbach near Marx??
Fichte near Hegel; probably 5R, 45S
Goethe romantic; something like 25S, 20E
Johnson, Samuel opposite to Berkeley of course! (?)
Kierkegaard cf
Leucippus he was a colleague of Democritus so put him there.
Luther up there with Augustine
Machiavelli mine is not a political test, but probably safe to say well below the horizon and a bit to the right. He was sort of a pragmatist, though a rather sinister one. Maybe 25M and 25E. Maybe more ??
Marcus Aurelius I believe he was a Stoic ??
Montesquieu enlightenment figure; near Voltaire; maybe lower like 20M
Occam dk beyond one quote
Pelagius dk
Protagoras a moderate Sophist, 20M 25E
Pyrrho dk cynic?
Rousseau romantic; 30S, 20E
Schelling 40S, 15R
Spencer near Darwin, 50M, 15E
Thales maybe right in the center??
Xenophanes dk
Zeno near Parmenides; 60R, 20S
Zoroaster spiritualist obviously, something like 50S 25R ???
Zwingli[/quote] dk

G.E. Moore is a well-known modern who described himself as a realist in both senses (modern and medieval). He must be about 25M and 30R. He accepted both Plato's forms and common sense realism.

Croce; historical idealist; something like 30S, 10R
Peirce; moderate pragmatist; I'd put him in the reverence quadrant.
Bradley; idealist; 40S, 10E??

If you have info on my dk's feel free to fill me in!

Eric Meece
http://www.california.com/~eameece/questionnaire.htm

Originally Posted by Donna Sherman

I took Eric's test and came out 31R, 6S. (I'm ENTP).

My husband, who is ESTP, came out 9R, 14S.

I'd have thought he'd come out substantially different from me since he's sensing.

Well there is quite a difference relatively speaking between 31R and 9R. Most everyone involved here is R/S with some R/M. That says a lot about who posts here!

Eric

Here's my data:

INFJ 5w4

22E
42S
12M
35R

30S, 13R

Theology
Theosophy
Hegel
Aquinas
Kant

As Virgil says, HTH!

Originally Posted by eameece

Berkeley 60S, 35E

There is Neisha's brain-in-a-jar! I think it is fair to say that she does not belong in Berkeley's sector.

Confucius probably 15S, 25R ???

Pretty close to Aristotle as you have it.

Fichte near Hegel; probably 5R, 45S

In many respects, Kant gets hammered by certain people when their real problem lies with those who took Kant's work and "expanded" it in ways with which Kant often would not have agreed. Your chart demonstrates that those Kant "followers" generally moved up and right. This "vector" is probably what most of those critics disagree with.

Machiavelli mine is not a political test, but probably safe to say well below the horizon and a bit to the right. He was sort of a pragmatist, though a rather sinister one. Maybe 25M and 25E. Maybe more ??

Politics belongs to ethics. How significantly would your positions change on an ethics chart? I know that you place Kant's ethics further left than his metaphysics. But what about others?

Rousseau romantic; 30S, 20E

I went back and considered the full range of Rousseau's work and I agree with you that he was probably INFP and not INTP.

Originally Posted by Neisha '67

Here's my data:

30S, 13R

What do you say, Eric? It does look like Neisha is on the rational edge of INFJ land, bordering INTP. She has been trying to verify that she is INFJ. What do you think?

Hi - I am around, I've been lurking much more than posting because I've been so busy I can barely form a coherent thought, much less post it. Anyway, I'll go back and take some of the other tests, but I took Eric's long one (luckily, two of my bosses are out for the day!) and ended up as an 8R 33S. I don't know how much of that goes along with my personality type as much as it does my faith, but it could work. I have no argument with the results, in any case.

And it's nice to be back and posting again!

Originally Posted by allybear '62

Hi - I am around, I've been lurking much more than posting because I've been so busy I can barely form a coherent thought, much less post it. Anyway, I'll go back and take some of the other tests, but I took Eric's long one (luckily, two of my bosses are out for the day!) and ended up as an 8R 33S. I don't know how much of that goes along with my personality type as much as it does my faith, but it could work. I have no argument with the results, in any case.

And it's nice to be back and posting again!

Welcome back, Ally! A few people have been asking about you. And look at that tremendously spiritual score on Eric's test! So far we have you (ESFJ), Neisha (INFJ), and Kiff (ISTJ) in that same area (and I hope I am not forgetting anybody). It is kind of hard to find a real pattern here. Perhaps Eric has some ideas.

I took Eric's test again, using his explanations, and came up with 10R 17M.

I found the explanations quite helpful and well-written.

Eric:

I was having trouble squaring your totals and mine for my score but I finally located my oversight. So I can say that, after having read your explanations and discussed them with you in the context of my changing worldview, my score (after all this time) is:


36R, 38S


I am sure that I was considerably less spiritual up until a year or two ago, but it is still hard for me to see how I would not have been in that same Truth sector since my main motivation has always been the search for universals. Perhaps I was on or near that Truth/Theory cusp at 25R, 25S? Regardless, it looks like I now need to go back and reevaluate Leibniz and fit him into my Kantian scheme. That ought to be fun.

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Originally Posted by Neisha '67

Here's my data:

30S, 13R

What do you say, Eric? It does look like Neisha is on the rational edge of INFJ land, bordering INTP. She has been trying to verify that she is INFJ. What do you think?

Looks dead on to me!

About ethics, I don't know about all the philosophers. Machievelli's views are about politics so might not really fit. But it's likely down and right as I said. Kan't ethics and metaphysics diverge in very well-defined ways and are outlined in two different sets of books very specifically. With most philosophers the ethics and metaphysics are blended together much more and are much more in line with each other. If you have a specific question about another philosopher I might have more to say.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

I took Eric's test again, using his explanations, and came up with 10R 17M.

I found the explanations quite helpful and well-written.

Thanks Justin. I just hope that they aren't subtly influencing people to move more in my direction philosophically (which you did). I'll have to keep an eye on that.

What is your MBTI type?

In general our survey here is too small a sample to judge MBTI correlations to my test. As we noted, extraverts are not necessarily materialists, even though both represent a "worldly" or "objective" orientation in a general sense. And yes I would think SFs would be more empirical (although Ally Bear is the only SF here so far). But as I said, anyone who posts here, and ESPECIALLY on THIS thread, are strongly N in some way whatever their type actually is, and more likely NT. Note that this particular forum has to do with "theories." The book certainly has to do with archetypes and possibilities and patterns, though it has some scientific leanings, and Generations is more "people-oriented."

If anything the remarkable thing so far is that noone here has yet had an E score on my test, whereas my previous experience over the last 16 years has been that R scores are the minority. And there are 9 R/S scores and 3 R/M. R/S is the intuitive N sector (intuitive in the Jungian sense meaning preference for archetypes, universals, patterns and possibilities rather than actualities). It seems quite likely that Strauss and Howe are also N and/or NT and would score R/S on my test.

I don't know Justin's MBTI type, but so far we have 6 NTs, 3 STs, one NF and one SF. Both Fs were women BTW.

Not counting me; I am a border NT/NF, with an E/S score (much more S than E though)

Eric
http://www.california.com/~eameece/questionnaire.htm

Originally Posted by eameece

Originally Posted by Justin '77

I took Eric's test again, using his explanations, and came up with 10R 17M.

I found the explanations quite helpful and well-written.

Thanks Justin. I just hope that they aren't subtly influencing people to move more in my direction philosophically (which you did). I'll have to keep an eye on that.

What is your MBTI type?

In general our survey here is too small a sample to judge MBTI correlations to my test. As we noted, extraverts are not necessarily materialists, even though both represent a "worldly" or "objective" orientation in a general sense. And yes I would think SFs would be more empirical (although Ally Bear is the only SF here so far). But as I said, anyone who posts here, and ESPECIALLY on THIS thread, are strongly N in some way whatever their type actually is, and more likely NT. Note that this particular forum has to do with "theories." The book certainly has to do with archetypes and possibilities and patterns, though it has some scientific leanings, and Generations is more "people-oriented."

If anything the remarkable thing so far is that noone here has yet had an E score on my test, whereas my previous experience over the last 16 years has been that R scores are the minority. And there are 9 R/S scores and 3 R/M. R/S is the intuitive N sector (intuitive in the Jungian sense meaning preference for archetypes, universals, patterns and possibilities rather than actualities). It seems quite likely that Strauss and Howe are also N and/or NT and would score R/S on my test.

I don't know Justin's MBTI type, but so far we have 6 NTs, 3 STs, one NF and one SF. Both Fs were women BTW.

Not counting me; I am a border NT/NF, with an E/S score (much more S than E though)

Eric
http://www.california.com/~eameece/questionnaire.htm

There are at least two female NF's on this board (unless you are counting Neisha as NT). I'm the other one!

Originally Posted by eameece

If anything the remarkable thing so far is that noone here has yet had an E score on my test, whereas my previous experience over the last 16 years has been that R scores are the minority.

What planet did you say you were from, Eric? Oh, California, that's right! :wink:

BTW, Susan should have an E score if she ever takes the test.

deleted (error)
I couldn't find the delete key.

Originally Posted by Heliotrope

There are at least two female NF's on this board (unless you are counting Neisha as NT). I'm the other one!

Counting me, that makes three of us. I'm ENFP, and if I remember correctly, Neisha is INFJ and you're INFP, so all we need is a female ENFJ on these boards and we'll have all four NFs.

Originally Posted by Katie '85

Originally Posted by Heliotrope

There are at least two female NF's on this board (unless you are counting Neisha as NT). I'm the other one!

Counting me, that makes three of us. I'm ENFP, and if I remember correctly, Neisha is INFJ and you're INFP, so all we need is a female ENFJ on these boards and we'll have all four NFs.

That he has results from only one "NF" woman on these forums so far--Neisha, not that there is only one NF woman here. I know both Susan and you, Katie, are NF and I've heard that Angeli is also (ENFP, although I'd thought for months that she was an introvert...oh well). The three of you should take Eric's test! That would end the confusion!

There, spoken like a true ENTJ. :lol:

How many ENTJs does it take to change a light bulb?
"Hey, you! Change that light bulb!"

Originally Posted by eameece

Originally Posted by Justin '77

I took Eric's test again, using his explanations, and came up with 10R 17M.

I found the explanations quite helpful and well-written.

Thanks Justin. I just hope that they aren't subtly influencing people to move more in my direction philosophically (which you did). I'll have to keep an eye on that.

What is your MBTI type?

Pretty strange, Eric. I always test either ENTP or ISTP. My TP has been strong and constant for as long as I've been taking these tests (first time about age 15). Strangely, my EN and my IS seem linked. I sometimes test strongly or weakly to either side, but I have never tested ES or IN. As I said, very strange.
Perhaps you and / or Stonewall can exert your personality guru-ish powers towards an explanation for the phenomenon that is me :lol: