Originally Posted by Justin '77

Originally Posted by eameece

Originally Posted by Justin '77

I took Eric's test again, using his explanations, and came up with 10R 17M.

I found the explanations quite helpful and well-written.

Thanks Justin. I just hope that they aren't subtly influencing people to move more in my direction philosophically (which you did). I'll have to keep an eye on that.

What is your MBTI type?

Pretty strange, Eric. I always test either ENTP or ISTP. My TP has been strong and constant for as long as I've been taking these tests (first time about age 15). Strangely, my EN and my IS seem linked. I sometimes test strongly or weakly to either side, but I have never tested ES or IN. As I said, very strange.
Perhaps you and / or Stonewall can exert your personality guru-ish powers towards an explanation for the phenomenon that is me :lol:

I may also be able to help somewhat, but not all that much. The fact that you consistently score TP means that Ti (introverted thinking) is your primary or tertiary function. That means that you prefer to make decisions based on logic, rather than values, objectively, rather than subjectively. It also means that you like to analyze things and come to conclusions in private, rather than by talking them through with others.

The function order for ISTP is: Ti-Se-Ni-Fe

The function order for ENTP is: Ne-Ti-Fi-Se

So, you also have Se as a component of your personality, which means that you like to experience the outer world through your five senses.

The ordering for the two that you don't test as are:

INTP: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe

ESTP: Se-Ti-Ne-Fi

I can see why you wouldn't be INTP, because that type lacks Se. I am not sure why you have never tested ESTP, though, except that, perhaps Ti is always dominant over Se. So that you always have both Se and Ti, but that Se is in the service of Ti, and not the other way around.

Any other thoughts? Stonewall? Robert? Eric? Susan?

Originally Posted by Neisha '67

I may also be able to help somewhat, but not all that much. The fact that you consistently score TP means that Ti (introverted thinking) is your primary or tertiary function. That means that you prefer to make decisions based on logic, rather than values, objectively, rather than subjectively. It also means that you like to analyze things and come to conclusions in private, rather than by talking them through with others.

Accuracy confirmed.

The function order for ISTP is: Ti-Se-Ni-Fe

The function order for ENTP is: Ne-Ti-Fi-Se
&c

Where do I find info on the Ti, Fe, and other groupings?

There is a bunch of stuff on Jungian functions on the web. I'll see if I can find something for you.

About my last post -- I just saw that I said Ti is your primary or tertiary function. I misspoke. I meant to say, primary or secondary function.

Also, the little "e" and "i" after the larger letters stand for "extroverted" and "introverted." So, if you extrovert a function, you apply it to the outer world and/or prefer to use it in the outer world. If you introvert a function you apply it to the inner world and/or prefer to use it in your inner world. Introverts prefer to use their dominant function in their inner world. Extroverts prefer to use their dominant function in their outer world.

If you are fairly certain that thinking, and not intuition, is your dominant function, than you are probably ISTP.

Anyone want to try analyzing my data (ENTJ; 5w4; 9R/7S)?

Originally Posted by Neisha '67

If you are fairly certain that thinking, and not intuition, is your dominant function, than you are probably ISTP.

Perhaps I'm using a different definition from you. I don't see the two (thinking and intuition) as mutually exclusive. Depending on circumstances, I rely on either or both.

Originally Posted by Number Two

Anyone want to try analyzing my data (ENTJ; 5w4; 9R/7S)?

I think NT, #5 and 9R are pretty consistent for a thinker. I wonder a bit about you and others who come out as ENTJ. They are supposed to be pretty commanding types who spend a lot of time strategizing for battle. I know you are "Number Two," but perhaps the traditional description of ENTJ is a bit extreme, especially for a w4. I'm not sure it fits you as a liberal either. A typical ENTJ might have a much stronger R score too. Then again, maybe you really are "Number Two," and we'd better all be careful to obey the rules of The Village with you watching us. What do you think?

Don't worry, Eric, I got your email. I will definitely take your test, and post my results. Unfortunately I am on my way out the door and will not be back online tonight.

I'm eager to see how I come out too!

Originally Posted by Heliotrope

Don't worry, Eric, I got your email. I will definitely take your test, and post my results. Unfortunately I am on my way out the door and will not be back online tonight.

I'm eager to see how I come out too!

Helio, make sure you read Eric's explanation page (linked on this thread) as you answer the questions. It can limit a whole lot of uncertainty and give you a more precise result.

Eric:

I was considering Hegel. You call him an INTP and I am having difficulty seeing it. I suppose the rational, mechanistic sort of workings of the dialectic could conceivably the product of an INTP mind. But I would think that this might be consistent with an INTJ as well.

However consider his desire to suppress individual rights and toss out the English and French traditions. He thought that everybody should serve the state. This emphasis on service and loyalty and working through a hierarchy/system is more of a Te thing. The suppression of individual rights creates a sort of claustrophobia in Ti. If he were an INTP, I do not understand how he would want to live under what he advocated. Therefore, I am inclined to see him as an INTJ.

What points to INTP in your mind? Simply his placement on your chart?

Justin, here's a description of ISTP that also has a jungian functional analysis. There's also a link at the bottom of this description to other descriptions, including ENTP.



http://www.typelogic.com/istp.html

Who would like to analyze mine?
ISTJ, 32R 25M

Here are some quirks about me that may help you analyze the results. My watch is set exactly to the school bells. Otherwise, I almost never remember that the bell is about to ring, so I end up with a big, but organized, pile of stuff on my desk that I have to pack up. Then I am usually the last one out of the class. With my watch, I am usually among the first out of the class. Also, I rarely if ever start a conversation, but if a conversation I am overhearing or listening to actually interests me, I usually end up interrupting people, and apparantly it's really annoying. I am the type of person who will remember a faux pas months or even years after it happened, and horribly regret it, realizing how embarrasing it was. In my head, the faux pas are probably made to seem a lot worse than they actually were. I dwell horribly on my mistakes. I fidget a lot. I get along okay with most people, but there is a group of people I completely hate and I literally wish they did not go to my school, and when I graduate I hope I never, ever have the misfortune of seeing them again. And about 90% of the people I hate are girls; only one of them is a guy. I would honestly have no problem whatsoever with punching them in the face if they got me mad enough. Another thing, I am the type of person who rarely ever fights back, but sometimes I get completely P.O.ed if enough bad things happen to me at once, and lets just say that its probably a good idea that I not carry around a handgun because I'd probably lose all of my inhibitions and shoot someone. And after I snap, which usually involves me punching someone, on the inside I get horribly sad, and it becomes a struggle for me to not show my emotions on the outside. Whenever I go on a long car trip, even when I am not driving, I have to go on the computer to find driving directions. I give them to my dad, and I get upset if he doesn't go the way I want to, which is almost all of the times I give him directions. I am a pure backseat driver. My English teacher started yelling at my class of about 15 about our book reports. Only 4 people passed, 2 with Cs, and 2 with As. I was one of the two people with an A. I have a 4.0 GPA. It becomes really stressful for me to meet that, but I do it anyway. I do not want to speak at graduation, however, because I've noticed that the quality of my speech has declined severely over the past year or so. It's not like I have a disablity or anything, its just that I mumble quickly, and I don't think before I say something, etc. Most of my faux pas are where I haven't thought before saying something.

Wow, that is some scoring scale!

Anyhow, I took Eric's test and here is how I came out:

2R/35S
Essentialist
INtuitive

Theology
Theosophy
Hegel
Aquinas
Kant

This is interesting, and fits right in with my MBTI type (INFP).

Originally Posted by Heliotrope

Wow, that is some scoring scale!

Anyhow, I took Eric's test and here is how I came out:

2R/35S
Essentialist
INtuitive

Theology
Theosophy
Hegel
Aquinas
Kant

This is interesting, and fits right in with my MBTI type (INFP).

Actually you fit INFJ. INFP would have to have an E score. Wow; still noone who posts at this site has an E score except me! You are right on the border though Susan; the lowest R score so far. Ally Bear, Neisha and Kiff all have similar scores to you.

Regarding Hegel, yes I think there is a good case that he is INTJ. Or he could actually be INFJ, considering that his philosophy score would be almost the same as INFJ. But INTJ seems appropo. Certain aspects of his philosophy are very rationalistic and judging; others are a bit softer and more romantic. It's a mixed bag with him.

There is a case too that Kant was really an INTJ, considering the rigid schedule he was known to keep in his personal life. There is the well known story that the German people knew something important was up when Kant failed to pass during his morning walk at exactly 8 am or whatever it was. He was saluting the Fall of the Bastille. Of course, that also signifies that he was a democrat.

Originally Posted by eameece

Originally Posted by Number Two

Anyone want to try analyzing my data (ENTJ; 5w4; 9R/7S)?

I think NT, #5 and 9R are pretty consistent for a thinker. I wonder a bit about you and others who come out as ENTJ. They are supposed to be pretty commanding types who spend a lot of time strategizing for battle. I know you are "Number Two," but perhaps the traditional description of ENTJ is a bit extreme, especially for a w4.

I got 5w4 by averaging the results of two tests (5w6 and 4w5)... I'd say that I almost definitely am a thinker - and it should come as no surprise that I pick my battles (i.e. fight VERY few) but when I do fight I do spend the time strategizing (doesn't that also fit Taurus well?)

I'm not sure it fits you as a liberal either. A typical ENTJ might have a much stronger R score too. Then again, maybe you really are "Number Two," and we'd better all be careful to obey the rules of The Village with you watching us. What do you think?

:-)... "Number Two" is at least partially sarcastic (and an amalgam of the "Number Two" of the Village and Dr. Evil's "Number Two") - I'd say that all the data fits well (especially when you mix it with the astrological data) - I don't see anything here that is not consistent with a Nomad/Hero cusp Taurean liberal thinker!

Originally Posted by eameece

Originally Posted by Heliotrope

Wow, that is some scoring scale!

Anyhow, I took Eric's test and here is how I came out:

2R/35S
Essentialist
INtuitive

Theology
Theosophy
Hegel
Aquinas
Kant

This is interesting, and fits right in with my MBTI type (INFP).

Actually you fit INFJ. INFP would have to have an E score. Wow; still noone who posts at this site has an E score except me! You are right on the border though Susan; the lowest R score so far. Ally Bear, Neisha and Kiff all have similar scores to you.

Regarding Hegel, yes I think there is a good case that he is INTJ. Or he could actually be INFJ, considering that his philosophy score would be almost the same as INFJ. But INTJ seems appropo. Certain aspects of his philosophy are very rationalistic and judging; others are a bit softer and more romantic. It's a mixed bag with him.


There is a case too that Kant was really an INTJ, considering the rigid schedule he was known to keep in his personal life. There is the well known story that the German people knew something important was up when Kant failed to pass during his morning walk at exactly 8 am or whatever it was. He was saluting the Fall of the Bastille. Of course, that also signifies that he was a democrat.

There are times when I act more like a J than a P, and I have scored as INFJ on a least one test. My J and P flipflop almost as much as my F and T (I've also scored on other tests as INTP).

Originally Posted by eameece

Originally Posted by Heliotrope

Wow, that is some scoring scale!

Anyhow, I took Eric's test and here is how I came out:

2R/35S
Essentialist
INtuitive

Theology
Theosophy
Hegel
Aquinas
Kant

This is interesting, and fits right in with my MBTI type (INFP).

Actually you fit INFJ. INFP would have to have an E score. Wow; still noone who posts at this site has an E score except me! You are right on the border though Susan; the lowest R score so far. Ally Bear, Neisha and Kiff all have similar scores to you.

She has come out strongly existentialist on these other tests suggesting that she should be further right on yours. She has come out looking like a theistic existentialist and perhaps your Romanticism sector is more like it. But even if she did not have benefit of your explanations the first time she took it, it seems unlikely that she would move that far right if she took it again with your guidance. It is puzzling.

Regarding Hegel, yes I think there is a good case that he is INTJ. Or he could actually be INFJ, considering that his philosophy score would be almost the same as INFJ.

Yes, I suppose that is also possible.

There is a case too that Kant was really an INTJ, considering the rigid schedule he was known to keep in his personal life. There is the well known story that the German people knew something important was up when Kant failed to pass during his morning walk at exactly 8 am or whatever it was.

I was considering this as well. It does look more J than free-wheeling P. However I think it is possible that an INTP might keep to such a regular schedule if he made a conscious choice to live as something of an ascetic and Kant sort of did, I think.

Additionally, his walk was part of his theoretical or experimental health regimen. In the wintertime, he would not breathe through his mouth, talk to anyone or for any other reason open his mouth on his walk, suspecting that infections stemmed from nasty things inhaled orally. I do not know if this says anything about J or P or not.

He was saluting the Fall of the Bastille. Of course, that also signifies that he was a democrat.

That generally sounds more P than J, although I would not think it is a hard and fast rule. Hegel was the opposite and did not accept anything "liberal" coming out of France or England in his unwavering worship of the state. That generally sounds more J than P. Whatever they may have been, I doubt that Kant and Hegel were the same type.

Alex:

I am not sure that what you described has anything directly to do with your MBTI type or where you call on Eric's philosophy chart. Do you think it might?

I dunno about other INTJ's on the list,

I happen to be a INTJ myself,

I have a uncanny sense of how political and institutional systems work and I have developed proposals to totally transform society and it's institutions, I even found out a way to develop a functional global government in various steps. This talent in building systems makes INTJ's good engineers, however I fairly average in conventional engineering, social engineering I am way better in.

Any thoughts on this subject from fellow INTJ's

Here's my data, if anyone feels inclined to analyze it: ENFP, 21R 31S. I'm not sure about my Enneagram type, although I took some online tests a while ago, and I remember being a 7 in at least two of them.

I think my biggest personality characteristic is my Intuition. My N scores are always consistently high - my other functions fluctuate more. I'm usually moderately to very extroverted, depending on who I'm with. I get a huge energy boost if I get to talk alot, or be the center of attention. On the other hand, I can listen very attentively. Somehow I always end up being the person that other people confide in and tell their problems to. I enjoy it though. One of my greatest annoyances in relationships is when the other person *won't* open up and talk. I'm not asking for meaningful, deep conversations all the time. It's just when the other person doesn't ever want to talk about how they feel about anything. That gets on my nerves.

My T/F scores are pretty close. Depends on my mood I guess. If I had to choose a different personality type that best fit me it would be ENTP. My dominant function is definitely extroverted intuition, so it would work either way.

I think Bob Woodward removed all doubt that Bush is an ESFJ with his book and interview on 60 Minutes. How can it be doubted that Bush is F when he himself stated that he trusts his instincts not his reason? Also, given his clearly-shown desire to be in command and ability to be decisive, that he is J? He stated that "I can understand people questioning other's suggestions, but since I am the president I don't feel that my decisions need to be questioned."

I'm still looking for a few more customers for my philosophy questionnaire. See if it relates to your MBTI type.

Originally Posted by eameece

I think Bob Woodward removed all doubt that Bush is an ESFJ with his book and interview on 60 Minutes. How can it be doubted that Bush is F when he himself stated that he trusts his instincts not his reason?

I think an xSTP might say the same thing, although an xSTJ might not. I suspect that it is more indicative of SP in general, not F.

Also, given his clearly-shown desire to be in command and ability to be decisive, that he is J?

No, SPs can act tough...much tougher than SJs. And that is all Junior has ever done. He has emoted (played a role) like a little kid. I think he is xSFP (a natural actor and emoter) who is trying to act like he is in charge when clearly he is not. If he were in charge, he would be "on top of his game" and would not need those stupid cue cards which he is always stumbling over, for the simple reason that he would know of that which he speaks (which he plainly does not).

He stated that "I can understand people questioning other's suggestions, but since I am the president I don't feel that my decisions need to be questioned."

He is acting, trying to pull a con by suggesting to people that, despite obvious appearances, he is in charge. SPs are natural actors. I think he is clearly xSFP.

Since this is the "test" topic, here's one for all you "vocabulary gurus". Enjoy!

http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/schmies.html

FWIW, I scored 176 out of 200.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Since this is the "test" topic, here's one for all you "vocabulary gurus". Enjoy!

http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/schmies.html

FWIW, I scored 176 out of 200.

I got 166. Admittedly, I guessed on quite a few responses. ;-)

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Since this is the "test" topic, here's one for all you "vocabulary gurus". Enjoy!

http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/schmies.html

FWIW, I scored 176 out of 200.

Selfsamedly, did I. HTH

Originally Posted by Xer of Evil

Eric, I think that most quickie surveys are B.S. and I tend to avoid them like the plague, but since you are my new favorite Boomer (replacing Marc :P ) I decided to humor you.

I got a 15E on the E/R scale and a flat ZERO! on the S&M, I mean S/M, scale.

So you wanna tell me what this means? BTW, I'm a Scorpio, if that makes a difference.

XoE

P.S. Perv, I will retake the test to see if I can improve my S&M score.

NO need for "improvement;" there's no value in high scores unless they accurately reflect your philosophy.

Wow, you are the first E here. More EEEEEEE than MEEEEEEE. So you are on the feeling, right-brained, more perceptive side of the circle. You might have an F or P on your MBTI score if your temperament matches your philosophy. You are not as confident as most here in the truth and efficacy of rationality. You may be a monist or a dualist on the "S&M" scale, but you are midway between spiritualism and materialism as these have existed.

Scorpio is perfect for someone on the E side, being passionate, reflective and dynamic. Scorpios are attracted to mystery and the unknown, which is where the E side points. Did you compare yourself with the philosophers and keywords near your position on the circle?

Eric MEEEEEEEEEECE
http://www.california.com/~eameece/questionnaire.htm