I took both the MBTI and Enneagram tests on Selectsmart. I came out as a 5w6 on the Enneagram tests (with type 9 in close second). On the MBTI test, the first time through, I came out as INTJ, then looked at two questions about which I had only a weak introverted preference and switched them to a weak extraverted preference and came out as ENTJ. I'm definitely right on the E/I borderline!

These have been making their way around the Internet and are fairly entertaining:


A glass of water according to personality type:

INTJ thinks: Glass is made from silicon dioxide, heated to a temperature of ...

INTP: The glass _is_ full -- half water, half air!

ENTP: Voila! 0.157 litres of dihydrogen oxide, prepared by micro-gnomes.

ENTJ: Hey! This is a beer glass, not a water glass!

INFJ: This glass of water is a metaphor for my life.

INFP: But look! A crystalline vessel, filled with shimmering, life-giving nectar!

ENFP: Whooeee! Water fight!

ENFJ: There's more than enough for friends to share.

ISFJ thinks: I bet my friend would like to have some water right now ...

ISFP (Holds up glass of water, tilts it from side to side, wiggles finger in it, licks finger, grins slightly, moves on.)

ESFP: There's a glass of water! You know, it's healthy to drink a lot of water! Why, I remember when I was growing up, we used to ...

ESFJ: I can't believe someone would leave this dirty glass out here! Clean up this mess right now!

ISTJ: It's half empty now, and it wouldn't surprise me if it dried up completely.

ISTP: So? It's water. Big deal!

ESTP: You call that a glass of water? Why, back where I come from, ...

ESTJ: Hey! Whose job was it to fill up this glass?

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:



http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:



http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:



http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:



http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

Ah, a flashback to my first wild-eyed craze--graphology! Let's see if I can still apply it.

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:

I'll try.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

:o

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

The sharp points W has on the h, m, and n show the intelligence. The pronounced slant shows the emotionality.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

How W crosses a t and how he writes capitals show these traits.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

Can't tell where Wallace is getting this. Then again, I studied handwriting analysis more than 20 years ago. I'm amazed that I remember this much!

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

The breaks inside words show this. FWIW, FDR had this same trait in his handwriting.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

W doesn't close the upper loops on a, g, and p. The downside is that he may find it difficult to keep secrets!

W also uses big lower loops for g. This means that, whatever is going on in his life, he's not overwhelmed by guilt!

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

So far, that indicates ExFx. I think it would be safe to say that W is probably S, not N.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P. I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W! Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W. Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven. One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

Ah, a flashback to my first wild-eyed craze--graphology! Let's see if I can still apply it.

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:

I'll try.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

:o

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

The sharp points W has on the h, m, and n show the intelligence. The pronounced slant shows the emotionality.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

How W crosses a t and how he writes capitals show these traits.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

Can't tell where Wallace is getting this. Then again, I studied handwriting analysis more than 20 years ago. I'm amazed that I remember this much!

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

The breaks inside words show this. FWIW, FDR had this same trait in his handwriting.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

W doesn't close the upper loops on a, g, and p. The downside is that he may find it difficult to keep secrets!

W also uses big lower loops for g. This means that, whatever is going on in his life, he's not overwhelmed by guilt!

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

So far, that indicates ExFx. I think it would be safe to say that W is probably S, not N.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P. I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W! Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W. Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven. One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

Ah, a flashback to my first wild-eyed craze--graphology! Let's see if I can still apply it.

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:

I'll try.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

:o

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

The sharp points W has on the h, m, and n show the intelligence. The pronounced slant shows the emotionality.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

How W crosses a t and how he writes capitals show these traits.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

Can't tell where Wallace is getting this. Then again, I studied handwriting analysis more than 20 years ago. I'm amazed that I remember this much!

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

The breaks inside words show this. FWIW, FDR had this same trait in his handwriting.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

W doesn't close the upper loops on a, g, and p. The downside is that he may find it difficult to keep secrets!

W also uses big lower loops for g. This means that, whatever is going on in his life, he's not overwhelmed by guilt!

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

So far, that indicates ExFx. I think it would be safe to say that W is probably S, not N.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P. I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W! Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W. Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven. One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

Ah, a flashback to my first wild-eyed craze--graphology! Let's see if I can still apply it.

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

To alleviate that boredom, feel free to translate this handwriting analysis into an MBTI or Enneagram type:

I'll try.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace123.html

(Standard disclaimers)



The Handwriting of George W. Bush

by Bob Wallace


After my last article about graphology, many people asked me about George Bush's handwriting. I had never looked it up. It never occurred to me.

:o

I was able to find this sample, which was written during the election. What does it say about Bush?



Surprisingly, he is a lot more intelligent than people give him credit. He's actually a fast, fluid thinker with good analytical ability. He's people-oriented, emotionally responsive, ruled by his heart and not his head.

The sharp points W has on the h, m, and n show the intelligence. The pronounced slant shows the emotionality.

He has pride verging on vanity, and a high self-image verging on egotism. This means confidence, sometimes too much.

He has very high goals, and is sometimes a dreamer. He has unfulfilled dreams. He is an idealist. He's also ambitious.

How W crosses a t and how he writes capitals show these traits.

He is sometimes sensitive to criticism and sees it when it's not there. He's also prone to resentment ? to feeling imposed upon.

Can't tell where Wallace is getting this. Then again, I studied handwriting analysis more than 20 years ago. I'm amazed that I remember this much!

He has pretty good intuition ? he knows how to adapt himself to people.

The breaks inside words show this. FWIW, FDR had this same trait in his handwriting.

He's emotionally stable and is open, honest and frank.

W doesn't close the upper loops on a, g, and p. The downside is that he may find it difficult to keep secrets!

W also uses big lower loops for g. This means that, whatever is going on in his life, he's not overwhelmed by guilt!

Some of these traits are good, and some are not so good. His intuition, his extroversion, his orientation toward people, his emotional responsiveness, his being ruled by his heart and not his head means he is not objective. For the most part his feelings tell him what to do, not the other way around. What he believes in, he is passionate about. But he's not very much of a reflective man.

So far, that indicates ExFx. I think it would be safe to say that W is probably S, not N.

His sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, coupled with his idealism, means he can occasionally live in a little bit of a fantasy world. The resentment and the sensitivity to criticism work together. What comes to mind is when a reporter spoke French in front of him, and he snapped. He might have resented what the reporter was doing, and saw it as an insult when it may have been no such thing.

The passion, the ambition, the high goals, the sometimes unrealistic, unfulfilled dreams, and the idealism means he really believes in what he is doing. He truly believes he is trying to make things better.

I see no evidence of deceit. Just the opposite. This is an open, honest man. Unfortunately, he is right on the edge of thinking too much of himself and his own opinion.

Is his qualified to be a really good President? My opinion: no. The main reason? He lacks objectivity. He also wants to be impulsive, but it's held in check by his intelligence, his analytical ability and his emotional stability.

What he shows is that he is a good politician, and even a good leader. But for all his intelligence, he is not an intellectual who can coolly reflect on things.

I'm sure that Bush's handwriting has changed since 9-11. Since he now has great political power, I suspect the traits that indicate his pride and egotism have been intensified. He has shown himself to be a changed man, one who has gone from being a good old boy who said, if he lost the election, "life goes on," to one who now apparently believes God has chosen him to run the US.

To me, that shows his feelings have intensified his resentment, pride, egotism and self-confidence. This, I believe, is going to be a long-term problem.

May 19, 2003

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P. I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W! Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W. Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven. One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P.

How does idealism indicate J? I was going to say that it indicates certain N types, but that's not try. Both Kiff and Ally score as idealists on Eric's test. In any case, the impulsiveness is a clear P indicator so that pretty much settles it.

I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

I came out with ESFP also. Basically, it all turns on what Wallace means by intuition. I think he means it more in the standard sense which may apply to F or P or both rather than the Jungian sense which applies to N. Any N/S dispute might be settled by Wallace's comment that Junior is not very "reflective." This may point distinctly to S. On the other hand, how reflective are extraverted Ns? Everything about Junior points to S though. It has to be ESFP which, incidentally, is how Robert Reed and I pegged him eons ago when all these "experts" were dancing around with ISTJ or ESTJ and other such nonsense. :wink:

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W!

Agree with you there.

Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W.

Wallace kept hitting on Junior's pride. That would accord with Two before any others, according to the correlations. Wallace also referenced Junior's vanity and vanity correlates with Three. If Wallace's pride and vanity diagnoses are accurate and if indeed Junior is an ESFP, then we may be looking at a 2w3. Here is a 2w3 description:


http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...nn9styls1.html

Two With a 3 Wing
This wing brings Twos an extra measure of sociability and the capacity to make things happen. When healthy, can be charming, good-natured and heartfelt. Really get things done, serve effectively on projects that involve the well-being of others. Thrive on group process and are generally good communicators. Enjoy keeping several threads or projects going at once.

Entranced Twos with a 3 wing can be quite emotionally competitive and controlling. 3 wing brings a double dose of vanity. Strong tendency to live in one's images. May grow brazenly deluded, preferring their glamorous, self-important scenarios to reality. Tendencies to deceit and emotional calculation. Highly manipulative. This wing is also more extroverted; dramatization of feeling in the form of hysterical snit-fits is far more possible.

[Seadog: So far so good!]

Real-Life Twos With a 3 Wing: Leo Buscaglia, Kathie Lee Gifford, Leona Helmsley, Whitney Houston, Arianna Huffington, Sally Kirkland, Susan Lucci, Madonna, Imelda Marcos, Susan Powter, Nancy Reagan, Danielle Steel, Richard Thomas, Jennifer Tilly, John Travolta, Ivana Trump, Xuxa.

Movie Twos With a 3 Wing: Glenn Close, Meeting Venus; Maynard Eziashi, Mr. Johnson; Joel Grey, Man On A Swing; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Angela Lansbury, The Manchurian Candidate; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Madonna, Truth Or Dare, Michel Serrault, La Cage Aux Folles; Meryl Streep, She-Devil.

CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Two's Connection to 4
Like Ones, Twos have an emotional connection to 4. Their feelings also tend to have a melancholy flavor. Healthy connection to 4 helps Twos develop their inner life and maintain an independent, possibly artistic point of view. Shift focus off roles and other people, search for themselves within. A need for self-expression and creative release often follows. Connection helps with emotional honesty as Twos start to see the dark side of giving and their own tangle of mixed motives. Admit their emotional complexity and personal needs.

When more entranced, this connection brings a tendency towards self-pity, obsessive love and depression. May become guilt- inducing martyrs haunted by melancholy. Disown their capacity to be alone. Begin to fear abandonment. Can slip into unrequited love scenarios or develop romantic obsessions. Low side of 8 fuels aggression in the pursuit of a romanticized other. The low side of this connection can also bring a haughty artistic pretentiousness and, occasionally, a streak of morbidity.

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Isabelle Adjani, The Story Of Adele H; Linda Hunt, The Year Of Living Dangerously; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Isabella Rossellini, Zelly And Me; Meryl Streep, She-Devil, Sophie's Choice; Barbra Streisand, The Way We Were; Marlo Thomas, In The Spirit; Charles White Eagle, Three Warriors.

Two's Connection to 8
Healthy connection to 8 helps a Two make stronger personal boundaries and assert their own needs. Develop and express an appropriate honest selfishness. Brings self-confidence and a direct, almost blunt communication style. Have force of personality for getting things done, especially projects related to their inner sense of mission. May care less about other people's opinions. Can be quite decisive; do well in leadership positions.

The low side of a Two's connection to 8 brings anger and aggression in the service of self-importance. Vengeful blaming. Demanding, prima donna behavior. If a Two's pride is insulted or they feel under- appreciated they can act out nastily like an unhealthy Eight. Two then goes on thinking they are a caring, giving person and blocks out evidence of their own hostility. If more unhealthy, they can turn persecutory, using their sensitivity to others to gather ammunition for outbursts of Eightish cruelty. True hatred and acts of violent retribution possible.

[Seadog 2w3 with a low side connection to 8?]

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Kathy Bates, Misery; Glenn Close, Fatal Attraction; Jaye Davidson, The Crying Game; Glynis Johns, Zelly And Me; Ray Liotta, Unlawful Entry; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge.

SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Twos often harbor a striking sense of entitlement. May act superior to others and expect preferential treatment that reinforces their pride. Can seem shameless in their expectation of pampering. Behind this attitude is a logic that says, "I give and do so much for others, I deserve to be treated as someone special." Like an unconscious collection of fees for sacrifices made. Others who encounter this attitude are often amazed at a self-preservation Two's self- importance and diva-like behavior.

Real-life people with this subtype often have a 3 wing. Dip easily to the low side of 8 when angry. Not many movie examples, but Kathy Bates displays some of this theme in Misery. Glynis Johns has some of it in Zelly And Me, as does Madonna in Truth Or Dare. A real-life self-preservation Two is American hotelier Leona Helmsley.

[Seadog: This self-preservation thing specifically correlates with 2w3 with low side 8. Could be.]

Intimate
Tend to act seductive and aggressive by turns. Basic interest is in finding romantic union. Generally confuse sexual desirability with being loved and valued. Act receptively interested in others, use inviting touches. May ooze some combination of charm and sexuality.

When they encounter resistance will begin to push and challenge. Try to find a way around the other's objection. May go militant and angrily blame (connection to 8). Behind these flare-ups is a melancholy desire for total enmeshed connectedness to another. Yearning is related to the low side of 4.

Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were is an exact depiction of this subtype. Other examples include William Hurt in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Ray Liotta in Unlawful Entry, Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Social
Twos with this subtype are notable for their ambition, particularly to be publicly recognized as someone special. Seek attention either directly from their own efforts or via affiliation with powerful people. In the former scenario, a Two works to draw an audience through socially useful works or some kind of performing. Confuse being noticed with being loved. Can sometimes act provocative or obnoxious as this is better than being ignored.

Might also marry someone influential and concentrate their energies on the spouse's ambitions. Can groom their children to become achievers. Stage mothers and political spouses are possible roles. Often have a 3 wing but a 1 wing is possible.

Video examples include: Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Angela Lans- bury, The Manchurian Candidate; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Marisa Paredes, High Heels; Rosalind Russell, Gypsy.


Vince, how about a 2w3 with low side 8, self-preservation subtype?

Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven.

I actually assumed that he was a Seven originally. Here is the Seven description:


Sevens - Fine Distinctions
Seven With a 6 Wing
Healthy Sevens with a 6 wing are responsible, faithful, lovable, nervous and funny. They are generally more oriented to relationship and want to be accepted by other people. Can be steady, more willing to stick with commitments; the 6 wing brings a longer sense of time. Usually funny or enjoy a good laugh - an amazing number of comedians are Sevens with a 6 wing. More openly vulnerable, have an unguarded, tender sweetness. Some have trouble expressing anger even when they are justified. May evade or finesse authority but still aware of it like a 6. Canny and practical, they look for the deals and the loopholes.

When more entranced, may have surprise episodes of sensitivity and insecurity. Their feelings can be easily hurt sometimes. Sensitive especially to comparisons. May avoid putting themselves to the test. Grow dependent and addicted to other people, afraid to be alone, suspicious and skittish. Can feel guilt easily, may project their conscience onto others and then act irresponsibly. Make themselves shallow, fall in and out of love easily. Sometimes breezily betray others by running away. Can be reckless, unstable, and self-destructive.

When Sevens have a counterphobic 6 wing their idealism can motivate a sincere desire for social reform. May work hard for a cause. Can be antiauthority, passive/aggressive, flippant, defiant. Some report hating to be told what to do. Clashes with Ones likely. May call down trouble on themselves. Complain about the status quo. The realm of hippie rebellion.


Real-Life Sevens With a 6 Wing: Dave Barry, Kenneth Branagh, Joseph Campbell, Chevy Chase, Katie Couric, David Crosby, Hugh Downs, Peter Fonda (counterphobic), John Gielgud, Cary Grant, Goldie Hawn, Marilu Henner, Magic Johnson, Ken Kesey, Timothy Leary (counterphobic), Eddie Murphy, Brad Pitt, Jerry Rubin (counterphobic), Rosalind Russell, Martin Short, Steven Spielberg, Lily Tomlin, Robin Williams, Jonathan Winters, William Wordsworth.

Movie Sevens With a 6 Wing: Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana (counterphobic); Ruth Gordon, Harold And Maude (counterphobic); Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Audrey Hepburn, Breakfast At Tiffany's; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Rosalind Russell, Auntie Mame; John Shea, Missing (counterphobic); Dick Van Dyke, Mary Poppins; Jon Voight, Midnight Cowboy.


Seven With an 8 Wing
When healthy, Sevens with an 8 wing are often generous, gregarious and expansive. Tend to be exceptionally loyal to their friends, especially when social subtype. Leap aggressively to the defense of those they care for. Might seem loud or boisterous although some are urbane and witty. Enjoy social celebrations, storytelling, jokes, food and travel. Generally have a strong self-confidence for worldly matters and getting what they want. Talent for making something out of nothing - entrepreneurial. Usually share what they have when healthy, want everyone to enjoy their sense of bounty and wide range of interests.

When more entranced, they may be demanding, displaying a selfish impatience and a self-justifying narcissism. May want what they want right now. Aggressive, hasty drive to acquire money and material options and recognition. Can demand that the people in their lives say only what the Seven wants to hear - sugarcoated truth. Lash out angrily if reality doesn't meet their expectations; sometimes vengeful. Often perfectionistic as parents (low side of 1). Moralize to others and then are themselves irresponsible. Amnesia for promises made in an expansive moment. Particular difficulty with sexual fidelity.


Real-Life Sevens With an 8 Wing: Victor Borge, Chuck Berry, Robert Bly, Michael Caine, Joan Collins, Francis Ford Coppola, Barry Diller, Clark Gable, Ava Gardner, Newt Gingrich, Jackie Gleason, Tom Hanks, Richard Harris, Alan King, Larry King, Robert Klein, Henry Miller, Jack Nicholson, Anthony Quinn, Leni Riefenstahl, Louis Rukeyser, Barbra Streisand, Jann Wenner, James Woods.

Movie Sevens With an 8 Wing: Klaus Maria Brandauer, Mephisto; Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Cher, Mermaids; Richard Dreyfuss, Once Around; Ava Gardner, The Night Of The Iguana; Andy Griffith, A Face In The Crowd; Bob Hoskins, The Long Good Friday; Michael Keaton, Clean And Sober; Ray Liotta, Goodfellas; Paul Newman, Blaze; Jack Nicholson, Batman.


CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Seven's Connection to 1
Healthy side of this connection brings self-discipline, follow-through, and a certain idealism. There may be a principled persistence and sober critical faculties that help the Seven to get things done. Good at balanced evaluation; they're appreciative and sort for the positive but they're nobody's fool. Ethics can be important. Want to improve things, search for "win/win" solutions to problems. Start to take life seriously enough to do things well, finish what they start. The connection to 1 generally helps Sevens become more objective and committed in ways they are comfortable with.

When more entranced, their discipline degenerates into a confining web of limits. Seven project their 1 streak and begin to react to the stuffy, pointless rules of others. May confuse discipline with repression, build a trap that they need to escape from, blame it all on you. Critical and dogmatic, can harbor perfectionistic ideals of what others should do. Start to think in black and white; can go obsessive about detail.

The other neurotic manifestation is when Sevens latch on to a Big Idea. This is an abiding principle or future possibility that the Seven is sure will resolve their present discomfort. Can grow quite deluded and obsessed. Eyes fix so completely on a future possibility that they excuse themselves from the consequences of present actions.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Francis Ford Coppola, Hearts Of Darkness; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Dennis Hopper, Flashback; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field; Jon Voight, Conrack.


Seven's Connection to 5
Healthy connection to 5 helps a Seven take time to contemplate and internalize their experience. Often brings sobriety, perspective, and the power to digest the experiences they have "eaten." Helps Sevens slow down, calm down, detach, see the Big Picture. May also be more willing to accept their pain and chew through it. Develop a respect for inner turmoil and deeper emotional processes that can take time. May embark on a search for philosophical wisdom. Find more depth, learn how to be alone. Some Sevens have an almost aesthetic distaste for excess that is related to this connection.

When more entranced, connection to 5 supports escapism, stinginess, and depressive tendencies. Unhealthy Sevens will check themselves out of difficult situations, withdrawing into their mind like a 5. Depersonalize - may detach from other people with frightening speed. They then move on to the attractive and new. Addiction to information, ideas, mental fantasy. Tendency to intellectualize feelings and rationalize.

The Seven style is usually generous, but this connection can bring an incongruous "cheap streak." Could pinch pennies, complain about high prices, etc. When more entranced, this can take the form of a stingy selfishness; the Seven could be talking to you about their needs even as you are feeling abandoned or let down by their broken promises. Sevens are also prone to withdrawn depressions, especially as part of a cycle of highs and lows.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Anne Bancroft, 84 Charing Cross Road; Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being; Robert Preston, Finnegan Begin Again; Robert Redford, Out of Africa; Fred Ward, Henry And June; James Woods, Joshua Then And Now.


SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Sevens are a little confusing since they tend to be highly social. Characterized by a drive towards family and shared group experiences. Enjoy operating within their real or chosen family, checking in with a group of like-minded people. Chronic sharing on a circuit. People in the group are the source of interesting information and stimulation. Don't feel burdened or trapped by duties like a social Seven. Loyal to family, often have a 6 wing. Defend their circle and castle. Barricade, find safety in numbers. This subtype goes with the image of the "party animal." Movie examples include Auntie Mame and, especially, Hugh Hefner in Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time.


Intimate
Intimate Sevens tend to garnish and embellish reality with fantasy. Intimate relationships are often thought of as shared experimental adventures, and the Seven perceives their partner through a veil of imagination. May romanticize others as a way to avoid the limits and boredom of mundane life with the same old someone. Can be more involved with their fantasy of the partner than with the real person. Tentative, distractible, impersonal, may have a wandering eye. Some have great difficulty with commitment and seem fickle as they move on to the next fantasy projected onto the next new person. Don Juan scenario.

More generally, intimate Sevens have a tendency to be suggestible. They may especially seek the new with the fascinated enthusiasm of a faddist, stepping into future fantasies to avoid the present.

Good movie examples include: Julie Christie, Darling; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Karen Landry, Patti Rocks; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being.


Social
Social Sevens often feel a tension between duty to others and the desire to escape. Tend to feel responsible for the people around them and experience that as a confining burden. They then react against the weight of obligation, seeking variety and craving change. When entranced, can be highly irresponsible. When awakened, they make peace with commitment and sacrifice and are often very stable and generous. Often an idealism, sometimes a stronger connection to 1. Serving something beyond themselves, dutiful. Can be from a large family where they had lots of responsibility, eldest child. With an 8 wing they tend to fight the sense of burden harder.

Movie examples include: Beau Bridges, The Fabulous Baker Boys; Cher, Mermaids; Tom Hanks, Nothing In Common; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field, James Woods, Joshua, Then and Now. Also Christine Lahti in Housekeeping, though her basic subtype is intimate.


I actually like the 2w3 low side 8 better.

One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

I don't see Eight at all. Would an Eight run all those businesses into the ground? I doubt it. He is nowhere near aggressive enough to be an Eight.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P.

How does idealism indicate J? I was going to say that it indicates certain N types, but that's not try. Both Kiff and Ally score as idealists on Eric's test. In any case, the impulsiveness is a clear P indicator so that pretty much settles it.

I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

I came out with ESFP also. Basically, it all turns on what Wallace means by intuition. I think he means it more in the standard sense which may apply to F or P or both rather than the Jungian sense which applies to N. Any N/S dispute might be settled by Wallace's comment that Junior is not very "reflective." This may point distinctly to S. On the other hand, how reflective are extraverted Ns? Everything about Junior points to S though. It has to be ESFP which, incidentally, is how Robert Reed and I pegged him eons ago when all these "experts" were dancing around with ISTJ or ESTJ and other such nonsense. :wink:

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W!

Agree with you there.

Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W.

Wallace kept hitting on Junior's pride. That would accord with Two before any others, according to the correlations. Wallace also referenced Junior's vanity and vanity correlates with Three. If Wallace's pride and vanity diagnoses are accurate and if indeed Junior is an ESFP, then we may be looking at a 2w3. Here is a 2w3 description:


http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...nn9styls1.html

Two With a 3 Wing
This wing brings Twos an extra measure of sociability and the capacity to make things happen. When healthy, can be charming, good-natured and heartfelt. Really get things done, serve effectively on projects that involve the well-being of others. Thrive on group process and are generally good communicators. Enjoy keeping several threads or projects going at once.

Entranced Twos with a 3 wing can be quite emotionally competitive and controlling. 3 wing brings a double dose of vanity. Strong tendency to live in one's images. May grow brazenly deluded, preferring their glamorous, self-important scenarios to reality. Tendencies to deceit and emotional calculation. Highly manipulative. This wing is also more extroverted; dramatization of feeling in the form of hysterical snit-fits is far more possible.

[Seadog: So far so good!]

Real-Life Twos With a 3 Wing: Leo Buscaglia, Kathie Lee Gifford, Leona Helmsley, Whitney Houston, Arianna Huffington, Sally Kirkland, Susan Lucci, Madonna, Imelda Marcos, Susan Powter, Nancy Reagan, Danielle Steel, Richard Thomas, Jennifer Tilly, John Travolta, Ivana Trump, Xuxa.

Movie Twos With a 3 Wing: Glenn Close, Meeting Venus; Maynard Eziashi, Mr. Johnson; Joel Grey, Man On A Swing; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Angela Lansbury, The Manchurian Candidate; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Madonna, Truth Or Dare, Michel Serrault, La Cage Aux Folles; Meryl Streep, She-Devil.

CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Two's Connection to 4
Like Ones, Twos have an emotional connection to 4. Their feelings also tend to have a melancholy flavor. Healthy connection to 4 helps Twos develop their inner life and maintain an independent, possibly artistic point of view. Shift focus off roles and other people, search for themselves within. A need for self-expression and creative release often follows. Connection helps with emotional honesty as Twos start to see the dark side of giving and their own tangle of mixed motives. Admit their emotional complexity and personal needs.

When more entranced, this connection brings a tendency towards self-pity, obsessive love and depression. May become guilt- inducing martyrs haunted by melancholy. Disown their capacity to be alone. Begin to fear abandonment. Can slip into unrequited love scenarios or develop romantic obsessions. Low side of 8 fuels aggression in the pursuit of a romanticized other. The low side of this connection can also bring a haughty artistic pretentiousness and, occasionally, a streak of morbidity.

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Isabelle Adjani, The Story Of Adele H; Linda Hunt, The Year Of Living Dangerously; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Isabella Rossellini, Zelly And Me; Meryl Streep, She-Devil, Sophie's Choice; Barbra Streisand, The Way We Were; Marlo Thomas, In The Spirit; Charles White Eagle, Three Warriors.

Two's Connection to 8
Healthy connection to 8 helps a Two make stronger personal boundaries and assert their own needs. Develop and express an appropriate honest selfishness. Brings self-confidence and a direct, almost blunt communication style. Have force of personality for getting things done, especially projects related to their inner sense of mission. May care less about other people's opinions. Can be quite decisive; do well in leadership positions.

The low side of a Two's connection to 8 brings anger and aggression in the service of self-importance. Vengeful blaming. Demanding, prima donna behavior. If a Two's pride is insulted or they feel under- appreciated they can act out nastily like an unhealthy Eight. Two then goes on thinking they are a caring, giving person and blocks out evidence of their own hostility. If more unhealthy, they can turn persecutory, using their sensitivity to others to gather ammunition for outbursts of Eightish cruelty. True hatred and acts of violent retribution possible.

[Seadog 2w3 with a low side connection to 8?]

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Kathy Bates, Misery; Glenn Close, Fatal Attraction; Jaye Davidson, The Crying Game; Glynis Johns, Zelly And Me; Ray Liotta, Unlawful Entry; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge.

SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Twos often harbor a striking sense of entitlement. May act superior to others and expect preferential treatment that reinforces their pride. Can seem shameless in their expectation of pampering. Behind this attitude is a logic that says, "I give and do so much for others, I deserve to be treated as someone special." Like an unconscious collection of fees for sacrifices made. Others who encounter this attitude are often amazed at a self-preservation Two's self- importance and diva-like behavior.

Real-life people with this subtype often have a 3 wing. Dip easily to the low side of 8 when angry. Not many movie examples, but Kathy Bates displays some of this theme in Misery. Glynis Johns has some of it in Zelly And Me, as does Madonna in Truth Or Dare. A real-life self-preservation Two is American hotelier Leona Helmsley.

[Seadog: This self-preservation thing specifically correlates with 2w3 with low side 8. Could be.]

Intimate
Tend to act seductive and aggressive by turns. Basic interest is in finding romantic union. Generally confuse sexual desirability with being loved and valued. Act receptively interested in others, use inviting touches. May ooze some combination of charm and sexuality.

When they encounter resistance will begin to push and challenge. Try to find a way around the other's objection. May go militant and angrily blame (connection to 8). Behind these flare-ups is a melancholy desire for total enmeshed connectedness to another. Yearning is related to the low side of 4.

Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were is an exact depiction of this subtype. Other examples include William Hurt in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Ray Liotta in Unlawful Entry, Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Social
Twos with this subtype are notable for their ambition, particularly to be publicly recognized as someone special. Seek attention either directly from their own efforts or via affiliation with powerful people. In the former scenario, a Two works to draw an audience through socially useful works or some kind of performing. Confuse being noticed with being loved. Can sometimes act provocative or obnoxious as this is better than being ignored.

Might also marry someone influential and concentrate their energies on the spouse's ambitions. Can groom their children to become achievers. Stage mothers and political spouses are possible roles. Often have a 3 wing but a 1 wing is possible.

Video examples include: Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Angela Lans- bury, The Manchurian Candidate; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Marisa Paredes, High Heels; Rosalind Russell, Gypsy.


Vince, how about a 2w3 with low side 8, self-preservation subtype?

Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven.

I actually assumed that he was a Seven originally. Here is the Seven description:


Sevens - Fine Distinctions
Seven With a 6 Wing
Healthy Sevens with a 6 wing are responsible, faithful, lovable, nervous and funny. They are generally more oriented to relationship and want to be accepted by other people. Can be steady, more willing to stick with commitments; the 6 wing brings a longer sense of time. Usually funny or enjoy a good laugh - an amazing number of comedians are Sevens with a 6 wing. More openly vulnerable, have an unguarded, tender sweetness. Some have trouble expressing anger even when they are justified. May evade or finesse authority but still aware of it like a 6. Canny and practical, they look for the deals and the loopholes.

When more entranced, may have surprise episodes of sensitivity and insecurity. Their feelings can be easily hurt sometimes. Sensitive especially to comparisons. May avoid putting themselves to the test. Grow dependent and addicted to other people, afraid to be alone, suspicious and skittish. Can feel guilt easily, may project their conscience onto others and then act irresponsibly. Make themselves shallow, fall in and out of love easily. Sometimes breezily betray others by running away. Can be reckless, unstable, and self-destructive.

When Sevens have a counterphobic 6 wing their idealism can motivate a sincere desire for social reform. May work hard for a cause. Can be antiauthority, passive/aggressive, flippant, defiant. Some report hating to be told what to do. Clashes with Ones likely. May call down trouble on themselves. Complain about the status quo. The realm of hippie rebellion.


Real-Life Sevens With a 6 Wing: Dave Barry, Kenneth Branagh, Joseph Campbell, Chevy Chase, Katie Couric, David Crosby, Hugh Downs, Peter Fonda (counterphobic), John Gielgud, Cary Grant, Goldie Hawn, Marilu Henner, Magic Johnson, Ken Kesey, Timothy Leary (counterphobic), Eddie Murphy, Brad Pitt, Jerry Rubin (counterphobic), Rosalind Russell, Martin Short, Steven Spielberg, Lily Tomlin, Robin Williams, Jonathan Winters, William Wordsworth.

Movie Sevens With a 6 Wing: Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana (counterphobic); Ruth Gordon, Harold And Maude (counterphobic); Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Audrey Hepburn, Breakfast At Tiffany's; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Rosalind Russell, Auntie Mame; John Shea, Missing (counterphobic); Dick Van Dyke, Mary Poppins; Jon Voight, Midnight Cowboy.


Seven With an 8 Wing
When healthy, Sevens with an 8 wing are often generous, gregarious and expansive. Tend to be exceptionally loyal to their friends, especially when social subtype. Leap aggressively to the defense of those they care for. Might seem loud or boisterous although some are urbane and witty. Enjoy social celebrations, storytelling, jokes, food and travel. Generally have a strong self-confidence for worldly matters and getting what they want. Talent for making something out of nothing - entrepreneurial. Usually share what they have when healthy, want everyone to enjoy their sense of bounty and wide range of interests.

When more entranced, they may be demanding, displaying a selfish impatience and a self-justifying narcissism. May want what they want right now. Aggressive, hasty drive to acquire money and material options and recognition. Can demand that the people in their lives say only what the Seven wants to hear - sugarcoated truth. Lash out angrily if reality doesn't meet their expectations; sometimes vengeful. Often perfectionistic as parents (low side of 1). Moralize to others and then are themselves irresponsible. Amnesia for promises made in an expansive moment. Particular difficulty with sexual fidelity.


Real-Life Sevens With an 8 Wing: Victor Borge, Chuck Berry, Robert Bly, Michael Caine, Joan Collins, Francis Ford Coppola, Barry Diller, Clark Gable, Ava Gardner, Newt Gingrich, Jackie Gleason, Tom Hanks, Richard Harris, Alan King, Larry King, Robert Klein, Henry Miller, Jack Nicholson, Anthony Quinn, Leni Riefenstahl, Louis Rukeyser, Barbra Streisand, Jann Wenner, James Woods.

Movie Sevens With an 8 Wing: Klaus Maria Brandauer, Mephisto; Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Cher, Mermaids; Richard Dreyfuss, Once Around; Ava Gardner, The Night Of The Iguana; Andy Griffith, A Face In The Crowd; Bob Hoskins, The Long Good Friday; Michael Keaton, Clean And Sober; Ray Liotta, Goodfellas; Paul Newman, Blaze; Jack Nicholson, Batman.


CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Seven's Connection to 1
Healthy side of this connection brings self-discipline, follow-through, and a certain idealism. There may be a principled persistence and sober critical faculties that help the Seven to get things done. Good at balanced evaluation; they're appreciative and sort for the positive but they're nobody's fool. Ethics can be important. Want to improve things, search for "win/win" solutions to problems. Start to take life seriously enough to do things well, finish what they start. The connection to 1 generally helps Sevens become more objective and committed in ways they are comfortable with.

When more entranced, their discipline degenerates into a confining web of limits. Seven project their 1 streak and begin to react to the stuffy, pointless rules of others. May confuse discipline with repression, build a trap that they need to escape from, blame it all on you. Critical and dogmatic, can harbor perfectionistic ideals of what others should do. Start to think in black and white; can go obsessive about detail.

The other neurotic manifestation is when Sevens latch on to a Big Idea. This is an abiding principle or future possibility that the Seven is sure will resolve their present discomfort. Can grow quite deluded and obsessed. Eyes fix so completely on a future possibility that they excuse themselves from the consequences of present actions.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Francis Ford Coppola, Hearts Of Darkness; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Dennis Hopper, Flashback; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field; Jon Voight, Conrack.


Seven's Connection to 5
Healthy connection to 5 helps a Seven take time to contemplate and internalize their experience. Often brings sobriety, perspective, and the power to digest the experiences they have "eaten." Helps Sevens slow down, calm down, detach, see the Big Picture. May also be more willing to accept their pain and chew through it. Develop a respect for inner turmoil and deeper emotional processes that can take time. May embark on a search for philosophical wisdom. Find more depth, learn how to be alone. Some Sevens have an almost aesthetic distaste for excess that is related to this connection.

When more entranced, connection to 5 supports escapism, stinginess, and depressive tendencies. Unhealthy Sevens will check themselves out of difficult situations, withdrawing into their mind like a 5. Depersonalize - may detach from other people with frightening speed. They then move on to the attractive and new. Addiction to information, ideas, mental fantasy. Tendency to intellectualize feelings and rationalize.

The Seven style is usually generous, but this connection can bring an incongruous "cheap streak." Could pinch pennies, complain about high prices, etc. When more entranced, this can take the form of a stingy selfishness; the Seven could be talking to you about their needs even as you are feeling abandoned or let down by their broken promises. Sevens are also prone to withdrawn depressions, especially as part of a cycle of highs and lows.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Anne Bancroft, 84 Charing Cross Road; Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being; Robert Preston, Finnegan Begin Again; Robert Redford, Out of Africa; Fred Ward, Henry And June; James Woods, Joshua Then And Now.


SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Sevens are a little confusing since they tend to be highly social. Characterized by a drive towards family and shared group experiences. Enjoy operating within their real or chosen family, checking in with a group of like-minded people. Chronic sharing on a circuit. People in the group are the source of interesting information and stimulation. Don't feel burdened or trapped by duties like a social Seven. Loyal to family, often have a 6 wing. Defend their circle and castle. Barricade, find safety in numbers. This subtype goes with the image of the "party animal." Movie examples include Auntie Mame and, especially, Hugh Hefner in Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time.


Intimate
Intimate Sevens tend to garnish and embellish reality with fantasy. Intimate relationships are often thought of as shared experimental adventures, and the Seven perceives their partner through a veil of imagination. May romanticize others as a way to avoid the limits and boredom of mundane life with the same old someone. Can be more involved with their fantasy of the partner than with the real person. Tentative, distractible, impersonal, may have a wandering eye. Some have great difficulty with commitment and seem fickle as they move on to the next fantasy projected onto the next new person. Don Juan scenario.

More generally, intimate Sevens have a tendency to be suggestible. They may especially seek the new with the fascinated enthusiasm of a faddist, stepping into future fantasies to avoid the present.

Good movie examples include: Julie Christie, Darling; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Karen Landry, Patti Rocks; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being.


Social
Social Sevens often feel a tension between duty to others and the desire to escape. Tend to feel responsible for the people around them and experience that as a confining burden. They then react against the weight of obligation, seeking variety and craving change. When entranced, can be highly irresponsible. When awakened, they make peace with commitment and sacrifice and are often very stable and generous. Often an idealism, sometimes a stronger connection to 1. Serving something beyond themselves, dutiful. Can be from a large family where they had lots of responsibility, eldest child. With an 8 wing they tend to fight the sense of burden harder.

Movie examples include: Beau Bridges, The Fabulous Baker Boys; Cher, Mermaids; Tom Hanks, Nothing In Common; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field, James Woods, Joshua, Then and Now. Also Christine Lahti in Housekeeping, though her basic subtype is intimate.


I actually like the 2w3 low side 8 better.

One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

I don't see Eight at all. Would an Eight run all those businesses into the ground? I doubt it. He is nowhere near aggressive enough to be an Eight.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P.

How does idealism indicate J? I was going to say that it indicates certain N types, but that's not try. Both Kiff and Ally score as idealists on Eric's test. In any case, the impulsiveness is a clear P indicator so that pretty much settles it.

I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

I came out with ESFP also. Basically, it all turns on what Wallace means by intuition. I think he means it more in the standard sense which may apply to F or P or both rather than the Jungian sense which applies to N. Any N/S dispute might be settled by Wallace's comment that Junior is not very "reflective." This may point distinctly to S. On the other hand, how reflective are extraverted Ns? Everything about Junior points to S though. It has to be ESFP which, incidentally, is how Robert Reed and I pegged him eons ago when all these "experts" were dancing around with ISTJ or ESTJ and other such nonsense. :wink:

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W!

Agree with you there.

Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W.

Wallace kept hitting on Junior's pride. That would accord with Two before any others, according to the correlations. Wallace also referenced Junior's vanity and vanity correlates with Three. If Wallace's pride and vanity diagnoses are accurate and if indeed Junior is an ESFP, then we may be looking at a 2w3. Here is a 2w3 description:


http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...nn9styls1.html

Two With a 3 Wing
This wing brings Twos an extra measure of sociability and the capacity to make things happen. When healthy, can be charming, good-natured and heartfelt. Really get things done, serve effectively on projects that involve the well-being of others. Thrive on group process and are generally good communicators. Enjoy keeping several threads or projects going at once.

Entranced Twos with a 3 wing can be quite emotionally competitive and controlling. 3 wing brings a double dose of vanity. Strong tendency to live in one's images. May grow brazenly deluded, preferring their glamorous, self-important scenarios to reality. Tendencies to deceit and emotional calculation. Highly manipulative. This wing is also more extroverted; dramatization of feeling in the form of hysterical snit-fits is far more possible.

[Seadog: So far so good!]

Real-Life Twos With a 3 Wing: Leo Buscaglia, Kathie Lee Gifford, Leona Helmsley, Whitney Houston, Arianna Huffington, Sally Kirkland, Susan Lucci, Madonna, Imelda Marcos, Susan Powter, Nancy Reagan, Danielle Steel, Richard Thomas, Jennifer Tilly, John Travolta, Ivana Trump, Xuxa.

Movie Twos With a 3 Wing: Glenn Close, Meeting Venus; Maynard Eziashi, Mr. Johnson; Joel Grey, Man On A Swing; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Angela Lansbury, The Manchurian Candidate; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Madonna, Truth Or Dare, Michel Serrault, La Cage Aux Folles; Meryl Streep, She-Devil.

CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Two's Connection to 4
Like Ones, Twos have an emotional connection to 4. Their feelings also tend to have a melancholy flavor. Healthy connection to 4 helps Twos develop their inner life and maintain an independent, possibly artistic point of view. Shift focus off roles and other people, search for themselves within. A need for self-expression and creative release often follows. Connection helps with emotional honesty as Twos start to see the dark side of giving and their own tangle of mixed motives. Admit their emotional complexity and personal needs.

When more entranced, this connection brings a tendency towards self-pity, obsessive love and depression. May become guilt- inducing martyrs haunted by melancholy. Disown their capacity to be alone. Begin to fear abandonment. Can slip into unrequited love scenarios or develop romantic obsessions. Low side of 8 fuels aggression in the pursuit of a romanticized other. The low side of this connection can also bring a haughty artistic pretentiousness and, occasionally, a streak of morbidity.

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Isabelle Adjani, The Story Of Adele H; Linda Hunt, The Year Of Living Dangerously; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Isabella Rossellini, Zelly And Me; Meryl Streep, She-Devil, Sophie's Choice; Barbra Streisand, The Way We Were; Marlo Thomas, In The Spirit; Charles White Eagle, Three Warriors.

Two's Connection to 8
Healthy connection to 8 helps a Two make stronger personal boundaries and assert their own needs. Develop and express an appropriate honest selfishness. Brings self-confidence and a direct, almost blunt communication style. Have force of personality for getting things done, especially projects related to their inner sense of mission. May care less about other people's opinions. Can be quite decisive; do well in leadership positions.

The low side of a Two's connection to 8 brings anger and aggression in the service of self-importance. Vengeful blaming. Demanding, prima donna behavior. If a Two's pride is insulted or they feel under- appreciated they can act out nastily like an unhealthy Eight. Two then goes on thinking they are a caring, giving person and blocks out evidence of their own hostility. If more unhealthy, they can turn persecutory, using their sensitivity to others to gather ammunition for outbursts of Eightish cruelty. True hatred and acts of violent retribution possible.

[Seadog 2w3 with a low side connection to 8?]

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Kathy Bates, Misery; Glenn Close, Fatal Attraction; Jaye Davidson, The Crying Game; Glynis Johns, Zelly And Me; Ray Liotta, Unlawful Entry; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge.

SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Twos often harbor a striking sense of entitlement. May act superior to others and expect preferential treatment that reinforces their pride. Can seem shameless in their expectation of pampering. Behind this attitude is a logic that says, "I give and do so much for others, I deserve to be treated as someone special." Like an unconscious collection of fees for sacrifices made. Others who encounter this attitude are often amazed at a self-preservation Two's self- importance and diva-like behavior.

Real-life people with this subtype often have a 3 wing. Dip easily to the low side of 8 when angry. Not many movie examples, but Kathy Bates displays some of this theme in Misery. Glynis Johns has some of it in Zelly And Me, as does Madonna in Truth Or Dare. A real-life self-preservation Two is American hotelier Leona Helmsley.

[Seadog: This self-preservation thing specifically correlates with 2w3 with low side 8. Could be.]

Intimate
Tend to act seductive and aggressive by turns. Basic interest is in finding romantic union. Generally confuse sexual desirability with being loved and valued. Act receptively interested in others, use inviting touches. May ooze some combination of charm and sexuality.

When they encounter resistance will begin to push and challenge. Try to find a way around the other's objection. May go militant and angrily blame (connection to 8). Behind these flare-ups is a melancholy desire for total enmeshed connectedness to another. Yearning is related to the low side of 4.

Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were is an exact depiction of this subtype. Other examples include William Hurt in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Ray Liotta in Unlawful Entry, Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Social
Twos with this subtype are notable for their ambition, particularly to be publicly recognized as someone special. Seek attention either directly from their own efforts or via affiliation with powerful people. In the former scenario, a Two works to draw an audience through socially useful works or some kind of performing. Confuse being noticed with being loved. Can sometimes act provocative or obnoxious as this is better than being ignored.

Might also marry someone influential and concentrate their energies on the spouse's ambitions. Can groom their children to become achievers. Stage mothers and political spouses are possible roles. Often have a 3 wing but a 1 wing is possible.

Video examples include: Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Angela Lans- bury, The Manchurian Candidate; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Marisa Paredes, High Heels; Rosalind Russell, Gypsy.


Vince, how about a 2w3 with low side 8, self-preservation subtype?

Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven.

I actually assumed that he was a Seven originally. Here is the Seven description:


Sevens - Fine Distinctions
Seven With a 6 Wing
Healthy Sevens with a 6 wing are responsible, faithful, lovable, nervous and funny. They are generally more oriented to relationship and want to be accepted by other people. Can be steady, more willing to stick with commitments; the 6 wing brings a longer sense of time. Usually funny or enjoy a good laugh - an amazing number of comedians are Sevens with a 6 wing. More openly vulnerable, have an unguarded, tender sweetness. Some have trouble expressing anger even when they are justified. May evade or finesse authority but still aware of it like a 6. Canny and practical, they look for the deals and the loopholes.

When more entranced, may have surprise episodes of sensitivity and insecurity. Their feelings can be easily hurt sometimes. Sensitive especially to comparisons. May avoid putting themselves to the test. Grow dependent and addicted to other people, afraid to be alone, suspicious and skittish. Can feel guilt easily, may project their conscience onto others and then act irresponsibly. Make themselves shallow, fall in and out of love easily. Sometimes breezily betray others by running away. Can be reckless, unstable, and self-destructive.

When Sevens have a counterphobic 6 wing their idealism can motivate a sincere desire for social reform. May work hard for a cause. Can be antiauthority, passive/aggressive, flippant, defiant. Some report hating to be told what to do. Clashes with Ones likely. May call down trouble on themselves. Complain about the status quo. The realm of hippie rebellion.


Real-Life Sevens With a 6 Wing: Dave Barry, Kenneth Branagh, Joseph Campbell, Chevy Chase, Katie Couric, David Crosby, Hugh Downs, Peter Fonda (counterphobic), John Gielgud, Cary Grant, Goldie Hawn, Marilu Henner, Magic Johnson, Ken Kesey, Timothy Leary (counterphobic), Eddie Murphy, Brad Pitt, Jerry Rubin (counterphobic), Rosalind Russell, Martin Short, Steven Spielberg, Lily Tomlin, Robin Williams, Jonathan Winters, William Wordsworth.

Movie Sevens With a 6 Wing: Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana (counterphobic); Ruth Gordon, Harold And Maude (counterphobic); Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Audrey Hepburn, Breakfast At Tiffany's; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Rosalind Russell, Auntie Mame; John Shea, Missing (counterphobic); Dick Van Dyke, Mary Poppins; Jon Voight, Midnight Cowboy.


Seven With an 8 Wing
When healthy, Sevens with an 8 wing are often generous, gregarious and expansive. Tend to be exceptionally loyal to their friends, especially when social subtype. Leap aggressively to the defense of those they care for. Might seem loud or boisterous although some are urbane and witty. Enjoy social celebrations, storytelling, jokes, food and travel. Generally have a strong self-confidence for worldly matters and getting what they want. Talent for making something out of nothing - entrepreneurial. Usually share what they have when healthy, want everyone to enjoy their sense of bounty and wide range of interests.

When more entranced, they may be demanding, displaying a selfish impatience and a self-justifying narcissism. May want what they want right now. Aggressive, hasty drive to acquire money and material options and recognition. Can demand that the people in their lives say only what the Seven wants to hear - sugarcoated truth. Lash out angrily if reality doesn't meet their expectations; sometimes vengeful. Often perfectionistic as parents (low side of 1). Moralize to others and then are themselves irresponsible. Amnesia for promises made in an expansive moment. Particular difficulty with sexual fidelity.


Real-Life Sevens With an 8 Wing: Victor Borge, Chuck Berry, Robert Bly, Michael Caine, Joan Collins, Francis Ford Coppola, Barry Diller, Clark Gable, Ava Gardner, Newt Gingrich, Jackie Gleason, Tom Hanks, Richard Harris, Alan King, Larry King, Robert Klein, Henry Miller, Jack Nicholson, Anthony Quinn, Leni Riefenstahl, Louis Rukeyser, Barbra Streisand, Jann Wenner, James Woods.

Movie Sevens With an 8 Wing: Klaus Maria Brandauer, Mephisto; Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Cher, Mermaids; Richard Dreyfuss, Once Around; Ava Gardner, The Night Of The Iguana; Andy Griffith, A Face In The Crowd; Bob Hoskins, The Long Good Friday; Michael Keaton, Clean And Sober; Ray Liotta, Goodfellas; Paul Newman, Blaze; Jack Nicholson, Batman.


CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Seven's Connection to 1
Healthy side of this connection brings self-discipline, follow-through, and a certain idealism. There may be a principled persistence and sober critical faculties that help the Seven to get things done. Good at balanced evaluation; they're appreciative and sort for the positive but they're nobody's fool. Ethics can be important. Want to improve things, search for "win/win" solutions to problems. Start to take life seriously enough to do things well, finish what they start. The connection to 1 generally helps Sevens become more objective and committed in ways they are comfortable with.

When more entranced, their discipline degenerates into a confining web of limits. Seven project their 1 streak and begin to react to the stuffy, pointless rules of others. May confuse discipline with repression, build a trap that they need to escape from, blame it all on you. Critical and dogmatic, can harbor perfectionistic ideals of what others should do. Start to think in black and white; can go obsessive about detail.

The other neurotic manifestation is when Sevens latch on to a Big Idea. This is an abiding principle or future possibility that the Seven is sure will resolve their present discomfort. Can grow quite deluded and obsessed. Eyes fix so completely on a future possibility that they excuse themselves from the consequences of present actions.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Francis Ford Coppola, Hearts Of Darkness; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Dennis Hopper, Flashback; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field; Jon Voight, Conrack.


Seven's Connection to 5
Healthy connection to 5 helps a Seven take time to contemplate and internalize their experience. Often brings sobriety, perspective, and the power to digest the experiences they have "eaten." Helps Sevens slow down, calm down, detach, see the Big Picture. May also be more willing to accept their pain and chew through it. Develop a respect for inner turmoil and deeper emotional processes that can take time. May embark on a search for philosophical wisdom. Find more depth, learn how to be alone. Some Sevens have an almost aesthetic distaste for excess that is related to this connection.

When more entranced, connection to 5 supports escapism, stinginess, and depressive tendencies. Unhealthy Sevens will check themselves out of difficult situations, withdrawing into their mind like a 5. Depersonalize - may detach from other people with frightening speed. They then move on to the attractive and new. Addiction to information, ideas, mental fantasy. Tendency to intellectualize feelings and rationalize.

The Seven style is usually generous, but this connection can bring an incongruous "cheap streak." Could pinch pennies, complain about high prices, etc. When more entranced, this can take the form of a stingy selfishness; the Seven could be talking to you about their needs even as you are feeling abandoned or let down by their broken promises. Sevens are also prone to withdrawn depressions, especially as part of a cycle of highs and lows.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Anne Bancroft, 84 Charing Cross Road; Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being; Robert Preston, Finnegan Begin Again; Robert Redford, Out of Africa; Fred Ward, Henry And June; James Woods, Joshua Then And Now.


SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Sevens are a little confusing since they tend to be highly social. Characterized by a drive towards family and shared group experiences. Enjoy operating within their real or chosen family, checking in with a group of like-minded people. Chronic sharing on a circuit. People in the group are the source of interesting information and stimulation. Don't feel burdened or trapped by duties like a social Seven. Loyal to family, often have a 6 wing. Defend their circle and castle. Barricade, find safety in numbers. This subtype goes with the image of the "party animal." Movie examples include Auntie Mame and, especially, Hugh Hefner in Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time.


Intimate
Intimate Sevens tend to garnish and embellish reality with fantasy. Intimate relationships are often thought of as shared experimental adventures, and the Seven perceives their partner through a veil of imagination. May romanticize others as a way to avoid the limits and boredom of mundane life with the same old someone. Can be more involved with their fantasy of the partner than with the real person. Tentative, distractible, impersonal, may have a wandering eye. Some have great difficulty with commitment and seem fickle as they move on to the next fantasy projected onto the next new person. Don Juan scenario.

More generally, intimate Sevens have a tendency to be suggestible. They may especially seek the new with the fascinated enthusiasm of a faddist, stepping into future fantasies to avoid the present.

Good movie examples include: Julie Christie, Darling; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Karen Landry, Patti Rocks; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being.


Social
Social Sevens often feel a tension between duty to others and the desire to escape. Tend to feel responsible for the people around them and experience that as a confining burden. They then react against the weight of obligation, seeking variety and craving change. When entranced, can be highly irresponsible. When awakened, they make peace with commitment and sacrifice and are often very stable and generous. Often an idealism, sometimes a stronger connection to 1. Serving something beyond themselves, dutiful. Can be from a large family where they had lots of responsibility, eldest child. With an 8 wing they tend to fight the sense of burden harder.

Movie examples include: Beau Bridges, The Fabulous Baker Boys; Cher, Mermaids; Tom Hanks, Nothing In Common; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field, James Woods, Joshua, Then and Now. Also Christine Lahti in Housekeeping, though her basic subtype is intimate.


I actually like the 2w3 low side 8 better.

One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

I don't see Eight at all. Would an Eight run all those businesses into the ground? I doubt it. He is nowhere near aggressive enough to be an Eight.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

Let's see...ExFx, most likely ESFx. Idealism indicates J, impulsiveness indicates P.

How does idealism indicate J? I was going to say that it indicates certain N types, but that's not try. Both Kiff and Ally score as idealists on Eric's test. In any case, the impulsiveness is a clear P indicator so that pretty much settles it.

I have a hard time thinking of W as an ESFJ "Queen Bee". However, I can see him as an ESFP and could even hear his voice saying the line from the MBTI joke that Neisha posted, so I'll say ESFP based on the analysis and my observations.

I came out with ESFP also. Basically, it all turns on what Wallace means by intuition. I think he means it more in the standard sense which may apply to F or P or both rather than the Jungian sense which applies to N. Any N/S dispute might be settled by Wallace's comment that Junior is not very "reflective." This may point distinctly to S. On the other hand, how reflective are extraverted Ns? Everything about Junior points to S though. It has to be ESFP which, incidentally, is how Robert Reed and I pegged him eons ago when all these "experts" were dancing around with ISTJ or ESTJ and other such nonsense. :wink:

Now, what Enneagram types would fit with that MBTI and W's behavior? ESFP corresponds to, in order, Enneagram types Seven, Eight, Two, and Four. Well, we can safely rule out Four--nothing introspective about W!

Agree with you there.

Two? :-? Male Twos tend to be people like Jerry Lewis, Bill Cosby, and Sammy Davis, Jr.--extraverted entertainers who want to help people and be loved. I don't think that's W.

Wallace kept hitting on Junior's pride. That would accord with Two before any others, according to the correlations. Wallace also referenced Junior's vanity and vanity correlates with Three. If Wallace's pride and vanity diagnoses are accurate and if indeed Junior is an ESFP, then we may be looking at a 2w3. Here is a 2w3 description:


http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...nn9styls1.html

Two With a 3 Wing
This wing brings Twos an extra measure of sociability and the capacity to make things happen. When healthy, can be charming, good-natured and heartfelt. Really get things done, serve effectively on projects that involve the well-being of others. Thrive on group process and are generally good communicators. Enjoy keeping several threads or projects going at once.

Entranced Twos with a 3 wing can be quite emotionally competitive and controlling. 3 wing brings a double dose of vanity. Strong tendency to live in one's images. May grow brazenly deluded, preferring their glamorous, self-important scenarios to reality. Tendencies to deceit and emotional calculation. Highly manipulative. This wing is also more extroverted; dramatization of feeling in the form of hysterical snit-fits is far more possible.

[Seadog: So far so good!]

Real-Life Twos With a 3 Wing: Leo Buscaglia, Kathie Lee Gifford, Leona Helmsley, Whitney Houston, Arianna Huffington, Sally Kirkland, Susan Lucci, Madonna, Imelda Marcos, Susan Powter, Nancy Reagan, Danielle Steel, Richard Thomas, Jennifer Tilly, John Travolta, Ivana Trump, Xuxa.

Movie Twos With a 3 Wing: Glenn Close, Meeting Venus; Maynard Eziashi, Mr. Johnson; Joel Grey, Man On A Swing; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Angela Lansbury, The Manchurian Candidate; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Madonna, Truth Or Dare, Michel Serrault, La Cage Aux Folles; Meryl Streep, She-Devil.

CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Two's Connection to 4
Like Ones, Twos have an emotional connection to 4. Their feelings also tend to have a melancholy flavor. Healthy connection to 4 helps Twos develop their inner life and maintain an independent, possibly artistic point of view. Shift focus off roles and other people, search for themselves within. A need for self-expression and creative release often follows. Connection helps with emotional honesty as Twos start to see the dark side of giving and their own tangle of mixed motives. Admit their emotional complexity and personal needs.

When more entranced, this connection brings a tendency towards self-pity, obsessive love and depression. May become guilt- inducing martyrs haunted by melancholy. Disown their capacity to be alone. Begin to fear abandonment. Can slip into unrequited love scenarios or develop romantic obsessions. Low side of 8 fuels aggression in the pursuit of a romanticized other. The low side of this connection can also bring a haughty artistic pretentiousness and, occasionally, a streak of morbidity.

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Isabelle Adjani, The Story Of Adele H; Linda Hunt, The Year Of Living Dangerously; William Hurt, Kiss Of The Spider Woman; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Isabella Rossellini, Zelly And Me; Meryl Streep, She-Devil, Sophie's Choice; Barbra Streisand, The Way We Were; Marlo Thomas, In The Spirit; Charles White Eagle, Three Warriors.

Two's Connection to 8
Healthy connection to 8 helps a Two make stronger personal boundaries and assert their own needs. Develop and express an appropriate honest selfishness. Brings self-confidence and a direct, almost blunt communication style. Have force of personality for getting things done, especially projects related to their inner sense of mission. May care less about other people's opinions. Can be quite decisive; do well in leadership positions.

The low side of a Two's connection to 8 brings anger and aggression in the service of self-importance. Vengeful blaming. Demanding, prima donna behavior. If a Two's pride is insulted or they feel under- appreciated they can act out nastily like an unhealthy Eight. Two then goes on thinking they are a caring, giving person and blocks out evidence of their own hostility. If more unhealthy, they can turn persecutory, using their sensitivity to others to gather ammunition for outbursts of Eightish cruelty. True hatred and acts of violent retribution possible.

[Seadog 2w3 with a low side connection to 8?]

Movie Twos who demonstrate this connection: Kathy Bates, Misery; Glenn Close, Fatal Attraction; Jaye Davidson, The Crying Game; Glynis Johns, Zelly And Me; Ray Liotta, Unlawful Entry; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge.

SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Twos often harbor a striking sense of entitlement. May act superior to others and expect preferential treatment that reinforces their pride. Can seem shameless in their expectation of pampering. Behind this attitude is a logic that says, "I give and do so much for others, I deserve to be treated as someone special." Like an unconscious collection of fees for sacrifices made. Others who encounter this attitude are often amazed at a self-preservation Two's self- importance and diva-like behavior.

Real-life people with this subtype often have a 3 wing. Dip easily to the low side of 8 when angry. Not many movie examples, but Kathy Bates displays some of this theme in Misery. Glynis Johns has some of it in Zelly And Me, as does Madonna in Truth Or Dare. A real-life self-preservation Two is American hotelier Leona Helmsley.

[Seadog: This self-preservation thing specifically correlates with 2w3 with low side 8. Could be.]

Intimate
Tend to act seductive and aggressive by turns. Basic interest is in finding romantic union. Generally confuse sexual desirability with being loved and valued. Act receptively interested in others, use inviting touches. May ooze some combination of charm and sexuality.

When they encounter resistance will begin to push and challenge. Try to find a way around the other's objection. May go militant and angrily blame (connection to 8). Behind these flare-ups is a melancholy desire for total enmeshed connectedness to another. Yearning is related to the low side of 4.

Barbra Streisand in The Way We Were is an exact depiction of this subtype. Other examples include William Hurt in Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Ray Liotta in Unlawful Entry, Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Social
Twos with this subtype are notable for their ambition, particularly to be publicly recognized as someone special. Seek attention either directly from their own efforts or via affiliation with powerful people. In the former scenario, a Two works to draw an audience through socially useful works or some kind of performing. Confuse being noticed with being loved. Can sometimes act provocative or obnoxious as this is better than being ignored.

Might also marry someone influential and concentrate their energies on the spouse's ambitions. Can groom their children to become achievers. Stage mothers and political spouses are possible roles. Often have a 3 wing but a 1 wing is possible.

Video examples include: Madonna, Truth Or Dare; Angela Lans- bury, The Manchurian Candidate; Laurence Luckinbill, Star Trek V; Shirley MacLaine, Postcards From The Edge; Marisa Paredes, High Heels; Rosalind Russell, Gypsy.


Vince, how about a 2w3 with low side 8, self-preservation subtype?

Seven? That's a possibility, particularly when one considers W's youthful excesses. Sevens tend to be outrageous entertainers who want to energize the people around them (7w6--think Jim Carrey) or worldly-wise and acquisitive consumers and sophisticates (7w8--think Liz Taylor). The former is out of the question, although the latter is a possibility. However, none of the Enneagram experts who have analyzed W think he's a Seven.

I actually assumed that he was a Seven originally. Here is the Seven description:


Sevens - Fine Distinctions
Seven With a 6 Wing
Healthy Sevens with a 6 wing are responsible, faithful, lovable, nervous and funny. They are generally more oriented to relationship and want to be accepted by other people. Can be steady, more willing to stick with commitments; the 6 wing brings a longer sense of time. Usually funny or enjoy a good laugh - an amazing number of comedians are Sevens with a 6 wing. More openly vulnerable, have an unguarded, tender sweetness. Some have trouble expressing anger even when they are justified. May evade or finesse authority but still aware of it like a 6. Canny and practical, they look for the deals and the loopholes.

When more entranced, may have surprise episodes of sensitivity and insecurity. Their feelings can be easily hurt sometimes. Sensitive especially to comparisons. May avoid putting themselves to the test. Grow dependent and addicted to other people, afraid to be alone, suspicious and skittish. Can feel guilt easily, may project their conscience onto others and then act irresponsibly. Make themselves shallow, fall in and out of love easily. Sometimes breezily betray others by running away. Can be reckless, unstable, and self-destructive.

When Sevens have a counterphobic 6 wing their idealism can motivate a sincere desire for social reform. May work hard for a cause. Can be antiauthority, passive/aggressive, flippant, defiant. Some report hating to be told what to do. Clashes with Ones likely. May call down trouble on themselves. Complain about the status quo. The realm of hippie rebellion.


Real-Life Sevens With a 6 Wing: Dave Barry, Kenneth Branagh, Joseph Campbell, Chevy Chase, Katie Couric, David Crosby, Hugh Downs, Peter Fonda (counterphobic), John Gielgud, Cary Grant, Goldie Hawn, Marilu Henner, Magic Johnson, Ken Kesey, Timothy Leary (counterphobic), Eddie Murphy, Brad Pitt, Jerry Rubin (counterphobic), Rosalind Russell, Martin Short, Steven Spielberg, Lily Tomlin, Robin Williams, Jonathan Winters, William Wordsworth.

Movie Sevens With a 6 Wing: Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana (counterphobic); Ruth Gordon, Harold And Maude (counterphobic); Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Audrey Hepburn, Breakfast At Tiffany's; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Rosalind Russell, Auntie Mame; John Shea, Missing (counterphobic); Dick Van Dyke, Mary Poppins; Jon Voight, Midnight Cowboy.


Seven With an 8 Wing
When healthy, Sevens with an 8 wing are often generous, gregarious and expansive. Tend to be exceptionally loyal to their friends, especially when social subtype. Leap aggressively to the defense of those they care for. Might seem loud or boisterous although some are urbane and witty. Enjoy social celebrations, storytelling, jokes, food and travel. Generally have a strong self-confidence for worldly matters and getting what they want. Talent for making something out of nothing - entrepreneurial. Usually share what they have when healthy, want everyone to enjoy their sense of bounty and wide range of interests.

When more entranced, they may be demanding, displaying a selfish impatience and a self-justifying narcissism. May want what they want right now. Aggressive, hasty drive to acquire money and material options and recognition. Can demand that the people in their lives say only what the Seven wants to hear - sugarcoated truth. Lash out angrily if reality doesn't meet their expectations; sometimes vengeful. Often perfectionistic as parents (low side of 1). Moralize to others and then are themselves irresponsible. Amnesia for promises made in an expansive moment. Particular difficulty with sexual fidelity.


Real-Life Sevens With an 8 Wing: Victor Borge, Chuck Berry, Robert Bly, Michael Caine, Joan Collins, Francis Ford Coppola, Barry Diller, Clark Gable, Ava Gardner, Newt Gingrich, Jackie Gleason, Tom Hanks, Richard Harris, Alan King, Larry King, Robert Klein, Henry Miller, Jack Nicholson, Anthony Quinn, Leni Riefenstahl, Louis Rukeyser, Barbra Streisand, Jann Wenner, James Woods.

Movie Sevens With an 8 Wing: Klaus Maria Brandauer, Mephisto; Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Cher, Mermaids; Richard Dreyfuss, Once Around; Ava Gardner, The Night Of The Iguana; Andy Griffith, A Face In The Crowd; Bob Hoskins, The Long Good Friday; Michael Keaton, Clean And Sober; Ray Liotta, Goodfellas; Paul Newman, Blaze; Jack Nicholson, Batman.


CONNECTING POINTS (Stress and Security)
Seven's Connection to 1
Healthy side of this connection brings self-discipline, follow-through, and a certain idealism. There may be a principled persistence and sober critical faculties that help the Seven to get things done. Good at balanced evaluation; they're appreciative and sort for the positive but they're nobody's fool. Ethics can be important. Want to improve things, search for "win/win" solutions to problems. Start to take life seriously enough to do things well, finish what they start. The connection to 1 generally helps Sevens become more objective and committed in ways they are comfortable with.

When more entranced, their discipline degenerates into a confining web of limits. Seven project their 1 streak and begin to react to the stuffy, pointless rules of others. May confuse discipline with repression, build a trap that they need to escape from, blame it all on you. Critical and dogmatic, can harbor perfectionistic ideals of what others should do. Start to think in black and white; can go obsessive about detail.

The other neurotic manifestation is when Sevens latch on to a Big Idea. This is an abiding principle or future possibility that the Seven is sure will resolve their present discomfort. Can grow quite deluded and obsessed. Eyes fix so completely on a future possibility that they excuse themselves from the consequences of present actions.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Jeff Bridges, Tucker; Francis Ford Coppola, Hearts Of Darkness; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Andre Gregory, My Dinner With Andre; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Dennis Hopper, Flashback; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field; Jon Voight, Conrack.


Seven's Connection to 5
Healthy connection to 5 helps a Seven take time to contemplate and internalize their experience. Often brings sobriety, perspective, and the power to digest the experiences they have "eaten." Helps Sevens slow down, calm down, detach, see the Big Picture. May also be more willing to accept their pain and chew through it. Develop a respect for inner turmoil and deeper emotional processes that can take time. May embark on a search for philosophical wisdom. Find more depth, learn how to be alone. Some Sevens have an almost aesthetic distaste for excess that is related to this connection.

When more entranced, connection to 5 supports escapism, stinginess, and depressive tendencies. Unhealthy Sevens will check themselves out of difficult situations, withdrawing into their mind like a 5. Depersonalize - may detach from other people with frightening speed. They then move on to the attractive and new. Addiction to information, ideas, mental fantasy. Tendency to intellectualize feelings and rationalize.

The Seven style is usually generous, but this connection can bring an incongruous "cheap streak." Could pinch pennies, complain about high prices, etc. When more entranced, this can take the form of a stingy selfishness; the Seven could be talking to you about their needs even as you are feeling abandoned or let down by their broken promises. Sevens are also prone to withdrawn depressions, especially as part of a cycle of highs and lows.

Movie Sevens who demonstrate this connection: Anne Bancroft, 84 Charing Cross Road; Richard Burton, The Night Of The Iguana; Robert Duvall, Lonesome Dove; Hugh Hefner, Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being; Robert Preston, Finnegan Begin Again; Robert Redford, Out of Africa; Fred Ward, Henry And June; James Woods, Joshua Then And Now.


SUBTYPE THEMES
Self-Preservation
Self-preservation Sevens are a little confusing since they tend to be highly social. Characterized by a drive towards family and shared group experiences. Enjoy operating within their real or chosen family, checking in with a group of like-minded people. Chronic sharing on a circuit. People in the group are the source of interesting information and stimulation. Don't feel burdened or trapped by duties like a social Seven. Loyal to family, often have a 6 wing. Defend their circle and castle. Barricade, find safety in numbers. This subtype goes with the image of the "party animal." Movie examples include Auntie Mame and, especially, Hugh Hefner in Hugh Hefner: Once Upon A Time.


Intimate
Intimate Sevens tend to garnish and embellish reality with fantasy. Intimate relationships are often thought of as shared experimental adventures, and the Seven perceives their partner through a veil of imagination. May romanticize others as a way to avoid the limits and boredom of mundane life with the same old someone. Can be more involved with their fantasy of the partner than with the real person. Tentative, distractible, impersonal, may have a wandering eye. Some have great difficulty with commitment and seem fickle as they move on to the next fantasy projected onto the next new person. Don Juan scenario.

More generally, intimate Sevens have a tendency to be suggestible. They may especially seek the new with the fascinated enthusiasm of a faddist, stepping into future fantasies to avoid the present.

Good movie examples include: Julie Christie, Darling; Tom Hulce, Parenthood; Christine Lahti, Housekeeping; Karen Landry, Patti Rocks; Lena Olin, The Unbearable Lightness Of Being.


Social
Social Sevens often feel a tension between duty to others and the desire to escape. Tend to feel responsible for the people around them and experience that as a confining burden. They then react against the weight of obligation, seeking variety and craving change. When entranced, can be highly irresponsible. When awakened, they make peace with commitment and sacrifice and are often very stable and generous. Often an idealism, sometimes a stronger connection to 1. Serving something beyond themselves, dutiful. Can be from a large family where they had lots of responsibility, eldest child. With an 8 wing they tend to fight the sense of burden harder.

Movie examples include: Beau Bridges, The Fabulous Baker Boys; Cher, Mermaids; Tom Hanks, Nothing In Common; Sidney Poitier, Lillies Of The Field, James Woods, Joshua, Then and Now. Also Christine Lahti in Housekeeping, though her basic subtype is intimate.


I actually like the 2w3 low side 8 better.

One person does think he's an Eight, specifically an 8w9, and that is consistent with both the deductio that W is ESFP and W's behavior--long fuse, deceptively quiet, but a very bad temper! :o

I don't see Eight at all. Would an Eight run all those businesses into the ground? I doubt it. He is nowhere near aggressive enough to be an Eight.

I'll respond to Seadog eventually. In the meantime, here's an article from USA Today (yeah, I know, the McNews of national newspapers) about an alternate personality system, the one professional psychologists use.

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

How 5 Personality Traits Change With Age
Conventional wisdom has long held that our personalities--largely governed by five key characteristics dubbed "The Big Five"--are genetic and pretty much set in stone by the time we turn 30. That may not be true.

After conducting an online study of 130,000 people aged 21 to 60, researchers at Stanford University, led by Sanjay Srivastava, say those key personality characteristics change throughout our lives.

"The Big Five" personality characteristics that are not dependent on mood are:
Conscientiousness
Agreeableness
Neuroticism
Openness
Extroversion

So how do we change with age? "We found a mixture of different patterns of how people change," Srivastava told New Scientist. "On average people were getting better at dealing with the ups and downs of life. In particular they were more responsive and more caring [with age]."

This is how our personalities tend to change with age:

Conscientiousness: Our ability to handle tasks and our organizational skills grow dramatically in our 20s and continue to improve as we age. The initial growth in our 20s is likely due to new work and family commitments.

Agreeableness: Our warmth, generosity, and helpfulness make the biggest improvement in our 30s and 40s; like conscientiousness, changes in agreeableness are probably due to new work and family commitments.

Neuroticism: Worry and our sense of instability actually decrease with age for women--but not for men.

Openness: Our desire to try new experiences declines slightly with age for both genders.

Extroversion: Our need to seek social support declines slightly for women as they age, but changes little in men.
What's the takeaway? On average, we get better as we get older. We care more about work, family, and our responsibilities. At the same time, we become less open to meeting new people. Women, but not men, worry less and as they age. "People are getting better at things as they age," Srivastava told Reuters. "They're not becoming grumpy old men."

The study findings, which are considered quite controversial, were published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Paul Costa Jr., a researcher with the National Institute on Aging who has done pioneering work with the ''big five'' model, told USA Today that he is critical of the study. Instead of major personality changes after age 30, he thinks we only see ''nuanced'' changes.

Originally Posted by Vince Lamb '59

I'll respond to Seadog eventually. In the meantime, here's an article from USA Today (yeah, I know, the McNews of national newspapers) about an alternate personality system, the one professional psychologists use.

Standard Fair Use disclaimers apply.

How 5 Personality Traits Change With Age
Conventional wisdom has long held that our personalities--largely governed by five key characteristics dubbed "The Big Five"--are genetic and pretty much set in stone by the time we turn 30. That may not be true.

After conducting an online study of 130,000 people aged 21 to 60, researchers at Stanford University, led by Sanjay Srivastava, say those key personality characteristics change throughout our lives.

"The Big Five" personality characteristics that are not dependent on mood are:
Conscientiousness
Agreeableness
Neuroticism
Openness
Extroversion

Here is an online Big Five test:


www.outofservice.com/bigfive

Thanks, Seadog!

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

Here is an online Big Five test:

www.outofservice.com/bigfive

Ah, a Frank Sulloway test! Dr. Sulloway is the author of Born to Rebel, which is a thorough study of how birth order affects personality and how personality affects achievement, "genius", and political affiliation. It's the most scientific treatment of personality I've seen so far and I'm pleased to have been directed to his test. I have confidence in its validity.

Here are my results:

Openness to Experience/Intellect: 58%. You typically don't seek out new experiences. (But I don't avoid them, either!)

Conscientiousness: 51%. You are neither organized or disorganized.
(Actually, I'm both, just in different parts of my life!)

Extraversion: 66%. You are relatively social and enjoy the company of others. (Cool, but I knew that!)

Agreeableness: 22%. You find it easy to express irritation with others.
(Ain't that the truth!)

Neuroticism: 25%. You are generally relaxed. (Yes, but this has changed over the years; 20 years ago I was much more high-strung!)

BTW, the correlations with MBTI traits are that Openess to Experience corresponds to Intuition/Sensation, Conscientiousness corresponds to Judging/Perceiving, Extraversion is the same as in MBTI, and Agreeableness corresponds to Thinking/Feeling. There is no exact correspondence to Neuroticism.

I haven't found a good correlation between Big Five traits and the Enneagram. Well, there's a subject for future research!

In the MBTI scheme one's personality becomes more rounded during middle age. One begins to explore and use one's non-preferences more.

Everytime I see this thread I think of Manpower Business Training Institute It's in Milwaukee and they used to run tons of commericals when I was a kid in which the MBTI acronym was stressed.

Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59

Everytime I see this thread I think of Manpower Business Training Institute It's in Milwaukee and they used to run tons of commericals when I was a kid in which the MBTI acronym was stressed.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I remember those!

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

Here is an online Big Five test:


www.outofservice.com/bigfive

My scores:

Openness to Experience: 28 (somewhat conventional)
Conscientiousness: 84 (well organized, can be relied upon)
Extraversion: 6 (enjoy spending quiet time alone)
Agreeableness: 28 (find it easy to express irritation with others)
Neuroticism: 82 :o (generally anxious, tend to worry about things)

Those first four seem to correspond pretty well to me being an ISTJ.

As for the last -- well, I'm facing a possible change in location and/or lifestyle in the next year, and that's more than a little disconcerting.

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

Here is an online Big Five test:


www.outofservice.com/bigfive

Me:

Openness to Experience: 51
Conscientiousness: 47
Extraversion: 72
Agreeableness: 31
Neuroticism: 7

If I read this right, I'm a calm, personable, semi-reliable punk. Hmmm... 8)

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

"The Big Five" personality characteristics that are not dependent on mood are:
Conscientiousness
Agreeableness
Neuroticism
Openness
Extroversion

Here is an online Big Five test:


www.outofservice.com/bigfive[/quote]


Here's my rating:

Openness to Experience: 33 (somewhat conventional)
Conscientiousness: 75 (well-organized, reliable)
Extraversion: 34 (tend to be shy)
Agreeableness: 11 (easily critical of others)
Neuroticism: 47 (not particularly nervous, nor calm)


I also rated my significant other (don't know if The Wonk will agree, but...)

Openness to Experience: 36 (somewhat conventional)
Conscientousness: 93 (very well-organized, very reliable)
Extraversion: 66 (relatively social)
Agreeableness: 64 (tends to consider others feelings)
Neuroticism: 12 (usually remains calm)


I generally concur with the results of my own B5 test, with one exception: agreeableness. Although I can at times be very critical of others, I don't think I am nearly such as my profile would suggest. 11? That's surely well into Marc Lamb/Brian Rush territory (oops....there i go being critical!) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Openness to Experience/Intellect
(30 percentile)
High scorers tend to be original, creative, curious, complex; Low scorers tend to be conventional, down to earth, narrow interests, uncreative. You are somewhat conventional.

Conscientiousness
(60 percentile)
High scorers tend to be reliable, well-organized, self-disciplined, careful; Low scorers tend to be disorganized, undependable, negligent. You are well-organized, and are reliable.

Extraversion
(60 percentile)
High scorers tend to be sociable, friendly, fun loving, talkative; Low scorers tend to be introverted, reserved, inhibited, quiet. You are relatively social and enjoy the company of others.

Agreeableness
(5 percentile)
High scorers tend to be good natured, sympathetic, forgiving, courteous; Low scorers tend to be critical, rude, harsh, callous. You find it easy to criticize others.

Neuroticism
(84 percentile)
High scorers tend to be nervous, high-strung, insecure, worrying; Low scorers tend to be calm, relaxed, secure, hardy. You are a generally anxious person and tend to worry about things

Sounds about right (I was expecting closer to 20 though for agreeableness... Kevin, at least someone's more aggressive than you)

Openness to Experience/Intellect: 4%
I prefer traditional and familiar experiences.

Conscientiousness: 82%
I am very well organized, and can be relied upon.

Extraversion: 10%
I enjoy spending quiet time alone. Well, I wouldn't exactly say "quiet", but "alone" is right on the mark.

Agreeableness: 34%
I find it easy to express irritation with others.

Neuroticism: 51%
I'm not particulary nervous or calm.