Marc - compare Blake, Coleridge, and Wordsworth with Byron, Shelley, and Keats and all of those with, say, the Brownings.
Pax,
Dave Krein '42
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Marc - compare Blake, Coleridge, and Wordsworth with Byron, Shelley, and Keats and all of those with, say, the Brownings.
Pax,
Dave Krein '42
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on; nor all your Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, Nor all your Tears wash out a word of it." - Omar Khayyam.
Right on, Dave.Originally Posted by David Krein
I happen to wonder if you have the same affinity to Lost writers as I do. They all seem to ring a certain bell for me -- Fitzgerald, Steinbeck, Hemmingway, Cowley (that dirty rotten communist!), etc. Not so many G.I. writers got to me. Could this be generational? Maybe a repulsion from my parents' generation?
--Croak
Of course. Unless you are somehow attuned to a spiritual dimension, you are missing it. Well, duh.All of this seems true if there are good reasons for being unreasonable or rational ways for being irrational. Did I miss something?
--Croakmore
I would say, good reasons sometimes for going beyond reason's limits, and sensible ways to go beyond them. HTH :-)
The right brain is not necessarily the "spiritual" brain, meaning you have to be a mystic to activate it; but it is, as I see it, the more receptive brain. It responds to feeling and sensibility, and to shapes and images and whole impressions rather than calculated, ordered, sequential and controlled actions. It is yin rather than yang; more female than male; open rather than dominant.
I see it related to the P rather than the J of MBTI, as well as more F than T; even perhaps more S than N, if N is defined as the knowing of generalities, archetypes, and possibilities not perceived. If N means "sixth sense" or "psychic" kinds of intuition, however, then it is more right brain. But so is immediate sense awareness.
As a musician and composer myself, to activate the right brain, I seek to allow perceptions to come to me, rather than demanding them to come. But both sides of the "great divide" need to work together. To be more present, rather than let the left brain chatter away, allows more impressions to come in. To be present, is something one can intentionally do; which also allows more to come in that we perceive unintentionally.
HTH!
Eric, the worlds we live in respectively are vastly apart. But I still think they both run on natural reason -- wisdom with rules -- call it intelligent design without the capital letters. Whatever discoveries you make existentially and spiritually without reason may be too personal to allow for any natural rules of design, whatever they may be.
Don't those rules of design interest you?
--Croakmore
Croak - I have a seemingly innate affinity for Adaptives and Reactives matched by an antipathy for Civics and Idealists. And yes, I have great admiration for the Lost writers you mention and, other than Heller, none for the GIs.
Pax,
Dave Krein '42
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on; nor all your Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, Nor all your Tears wash out a word of it." - Omar Khayyam.
Canine-Fenno-Americans
Yes they do; that is part of how the world works.
The mistake as I see it that those of your persuasion make, is to consider "discoveries you make existentially and spiritually without reason" as "too personal to allow for any natural rules of design" or something like that. Often the insights that come to people through non-rational faculties are not personal ones, but transpersonal.
"Going within" is actually contacting the universal. At bottom, I think, these spiritual insights are not incompatible with reason; just sometimes inaccessible to the usual methods of reasoning and experiment that we humans at present tend to use. Our current scientific methods, are quite new, and will be superceeded by others; so there's no need to consider them the only way to understand "the natural rules of design."
I am studying esoteric color theory right now, so I might as well share the correspondences I am finding.
Occult writers like Paul Foster Case say:
red is akin to fire
yellow is air, or sometimes fiery air
blue is watery
green or olive green is earth.
One way of lining things up is this way:
N = fire = red = prophets = essentialists = severity (kaballah term)
T = air = yellow = civic heroes = rationalists = victory "
S = earth = green = nomads = empiricists = (worldly) splendour "
F = water = blue = adaptive artists = existentialists = mercy "
This finally lines up the color wheel with the philosophy wheel, if you start with red at upper left, and go down and around. The bright colors are yang, and represent dominant generations; the cooler colors are recessive. Although the cooler colors have a faster wavelength and higher temperature, the elements they stand for are lower temperature.
Earth in this alignment seems to me more than just solidity, but solidity as the vehicle for life and growth (green). I notice there are no living things without the earth element; on the other hand, there are no green stars.
Colors can have more than one role and meaning, as in the chakra spectrum which corresponds to the vertical "backbone" of the wheel. That is usually seen as red at the base and purple at the crown, with green at the heart center.
So, how about prophets as red? Very angry, severe and uncompromising! We "know the truth." Or as purple, the spiritual color next door? Artists as blue, for quiet feeling and mercy? Nomads as green, the conservative but adaptive color of productivity? Civics as yellow, for mentality, and "victory"?
Now that's what I call "design!" Not strictly rational in the green Croakmore universe, though. Says "Eric the Green" Or is it "Eric the Red?"
Feng Shui
The Celestials say:
black is water is transport and communication
blue/green is wood (plants) is feminine and creative
red is fire is intelligence
yellow is earth is stability
white is metal is competition and masculine
black is water as a productive sequence of enhancers
blue/green is wood
yellow is earth
black is water
red is fire
white is metal
blue/green is wood as a destructive sequence
Feng Shui
The Celestials say:
black is water is transport and communication
blue/green is wood (plants) is feminine and creative
red is fire is intelligence
yellow is earth is stability
white is metal is competition and masculine
black is water as a productive sequence of enhancers
blue/green is wood
yellow is earth
black is water
red is fire
white is metal
blue/green is wood as a destructive sequence
Re: Colors and Elements
Who are the Celestials?The Celestials say:
Thanks for your info from The Celestials.black is water is transport and communication
blue/green is wood (plants) is feminine and creative
red is fire is intelligence
yellow is earth is stability
white is metal is competition and masculine
black is water as a productive sequence of enhancers
blue/green is wood
yellow is earth
black is water
red is fire
white is metal
blue/green is wood as a destructive sequence
What they use for elements is, of course, the Chinese and not the Western occult knowledge.
In effect, the Chinese have 3 earth elements, and no air element. The 3 earth elements represent different states of what in the West is "solid." Wood is earth that has been alive; metal would seem to be earth in its original form as generated within stars, and earth is rock or the soil of the Earth that is metals broken down and often combined with the remains of wood (organisms).
I was thinking about these correlations, and it makes some sense to correlate white with metal. If white is color in its original form before it is broken down, the same could be said for metal as pure solid before it is broken down and mixed. I don't see any connection between the absense of color (black) and water. Blue-green for wood makes some sense, in that originally all wood is green. But water is also blue-green, or blue.
Yellow is universally linked to mentality and cheerfulness by Western esoteric writers. But insofar as The Sun (which is yellow) represents the objective and the conscious mind, it has a similar meaning as "earth" as what is solid and objective. So it could be both. But if yellow is intelligence, then red must stand for intelligence in its more primal or original form as archetypal intuition; that aspect of mind that Arkham says we have to assume and can't question (what is axiomatic). On the other hand, many say that red represents physical activity and passion; thus its place at the base of the chakra system and the color spectrum. Linking red with intuition links it with spiritual purple, which is next door; but between red and purple there is an end and a new beginning; perhaps a transition to a higher or lower octave that may be invisible.
According to Case, fire represents the archetypal world, known by Jungian intuition, which would be symbolized by red. Archetypes are original ideas; thus the beginnings of things. Water represents the creative world, in which original ideas are given motion and fluidity, and this would be feeling, represented by blue. Air represents the formative world, or the processes and natural laws that govern what is created. These are the "designs" that Croakmore refers to, known by the rational mind, such as the laws of cause and effect. This would be represented by yellow. Earth represents the physical world, known through sensation, where these processes are embodied, and would be represented by a shade of green.
I thought that green should stand for earth as alive, which the Chinese symbolize by "wood." Perhaps "matter" as solids that aren't alive could be represented by brown or black, and white (black's opposite) or purple are linked to the Western "fifth element," which is spirit or consciousness. Matter, not living earth, is the opposite of spirit. But as I see it, such "matter" would not even be on the color wheel. In any case, it comes between earth and air, and is an illusion or absense of spirit that develops from both reason and sensation.
Yet writers such as Case frequently say that fire and water are opposites, and therefore so are earth and air. But I would see fire (red) and water (blue) as mirror images, with both near the top of the wheel on either side. Purple, a symbol of spirit, stands between them and is contained in both. This would gell with the philosophy wheel, in which intuition and feeling are both spiritual, with spiritualism between them.
Western science used to say that the old idea of "elements" was "wrong and outdated," and that the real "elements" are Hydrogen, Helium, etc.; and yet I noticed as have others that they really kept the idea but changed the name to "states of matter." Earth is solid, water is liquid, air is gas. Since the 20th century, we also know that energy is a state of matter. Some writers link fire to a condition of matter during nuclear reactions called "plasma." But why not just say what is obvious, in the wake of nuclear physics, that fire is energy?
Strauss and Howe related the elements to another set of relations, as did the old alchemists: heat, cold, wet and dry. The identity of heat with fire and wet with water is obvious. And these seem to be the two primal elements. The link of cold to earth is less obvious, but we know that solid is "matter" in its coldest form. Air as "dry" is the least obvious, but we know that the effect of air is to dry things, and that mentality can be "dry" and lacking in feeling (wet).
If these links are correct, then earth and fire are opposites (cold and heat), and water and air are opposites (wet and dry). Thus intuition/essentialism (fire/heat) and sensation/empiricism (earth/cold) are opposites, and thinking/rationalism (air/dry) and feeling/existentialism (water/wet) are opposites. But opposites are always complementary and share a common substance. Thus intuition and sensation are both kinds of perception, and thinking and feeling are both kinds of judging.
Re: Colors and Elements
Celestial - definition from gcide
Celestial \Ce*les"tial\, n.
1. An inhabitant of heaven. --Pope.
[1913 Webster]
2. A native of China; a Chinaman; a Chinese. [Colloq.]
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Celestial \Ce*les"tial\, a. [OF. celestial, celestied, fr. L.
caelestic, fr. caelum heaved. See Cell.]
1. Belonging to the a["e]rial regions, or visible heavens.
"The twelve celestial signs." --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
2. Of or pertaining to the spiritual heaven; heavenly;
divine. "Celestial spirits." "Celestial light," --Milton.
[1913 Webster]
3. Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of, the Chinese, or
Celestial, Empire, of the Chinese people.
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Celestial city, heaven; the heavenly Jerusalem. --Bunyan.
Celestial empire, China; -- so called from the Chinese
words, tien chan, Heavenly Dynasty, as being the kingdom
ruled over by the dynasty appointed by heaven. --S. W.
Williams.
[1913 Webster]
Re: Colors and Elements
IOW, the Chinese!Celestial - definition from gcide
Celestial \Ce*les"tial\, n.
1. An inhabitant of heaven. --Pope.
[1913 Webster]
2. A native of China; a Chinaman; a Chinese. [Colloq.]
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Celestial \Ce*les"tial\, a. [OF. celestial, celestied, fr. L.
caelestic, fr. caelum heaved. See Cell.]
1. Belonging to the a["e]rial regions, or visible heavens.
"The twelve celestial signs." --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
2. Of or pertaining to the spiritual heaven; heavenly;
divine. "Celestial spirits." "Celestial light," --Milton.
[1913 Webster]
3. Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of, the Chinese, or
Celestial, Empire, of the Chinese people.
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Celestial city, heaven; the heavenly Jerusalem. --Bunyan.
Celestial empire, China; -- so called from the Chinese
words, tien chan, Heavenly Dynasty, as being the kingdom
ruled over by the dynasty appointed by heaven. --S. W.
Williams.
[1913 Webster]
But is there a particular author you read making the correlations with colors? I have heard of the Chinese 5 elements for decades but not the color correlations with them.
As a Christian I would think you might be more inclined toward the Western system.
Re: Colors and Elements
I am a fan of traditionalism and Taoism (philosophical) and Confucianism as guides to living in this world. Xianity prepares one for the next.IOW, the Chinese!Celestial - definition from gcide
Celestial \Ce*les"tial\, n.
1. An inhabitant of heaven. --Pope.
[1913 Webster]
2. A native of China; a Chinaman; a Chinese. [Colloq.]
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Celestial \Ce*les"tial\, a. [OF. celestial, celestied, fr. L.
caelestic, fr. caelum heaved. See Cell.]
1. Belonging to the a["e]rial regions, or visible heavens.
"The twelve celestial signs." --Shak.
[1913 Webster]
2. Of or pertaining to the spiritual heaven; heavenly;
divine. "Celestial spirits." "Celestial light," --Milton.
[1913 Webster]
3. Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of, the Chinese, or
Celestial, Empire, of the Chinese people.
[Webster 1913 Suppl.]
Celestial city, heaven; the heavenly Jerusalem. --Bunyan.
Celestial empire, China; -- so called from the Chinese
words, tien chan, Heavenly Dynasty, as being the kingdom
ruled over by the dynasty appointed by heaven. --S. W.
Williams.
[1913 Webster]
But is there a particular author you read making the correlations with colors? I have heard of the Chinese 5 elements for decades but not the color correlations with them.
I use Mr. Derek Walters as a beginning. Ms. Eva Wong and Ms. Lillian Too go into greater detail. Master Lin Yun has added more on color in modern life (he's from Berkeley, CA). There are three major schools and their opinions don't always agree. A Brief Overview
As a Christian I would think you might be more inclined toward the Western system.
I am most interested in Eastern Art, design, color and form as it relates to harmony in the building and maintaining of a household. As I remodel my grandfather's log home or add to it I try to follow Chinese principles.
Such as a SW room in rose and a SE room in mauve and the NE Hall in blue. I stained the pine shiplap ceiling and walls in my library a pale blue/green that allowed the wood to show through (EAST) and the wavy watery grain pattern to show (North).
When I redo my kitchen it will be in metallic colors and round forms. The Celestials have been working this out for thousands of years and the West gave us the lamentable likes of the late Philip Johnson. I am a fan of the Romanesque and the Baroque which can both be worked into the Chinese way of building. The arches and strong curves are placed in certain parts of the home and not in others where they might be malign.
Take a look at Ms. Wong's books the next time you're in the library or bookstore. HTH
Re: Colors and Elements
Not saying that you are wrong (I really do not recall enough Jungian specifics to say) but I seem to recall that Jung described Introverted Thinking (Ti) as being the specific function in touch with the Archetypes. If I interpret this correctly, INTPs and ISTPs (the two Ti-dominant types) would be most in touch with the Archetypes in Jung's scheme. Perhaps Jungian Intuition (Ni or Ne) is better associated with imagination.
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."
-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
Re: Colors and Elements
Could be. I don't refer too much to functions as introverted or extraverted myself, especially when seeking correlations of functions with the Wheel. But yes I would think introverted thinking would be aware of or interested in archetypes, especially INTP as the philosopher. ISTP though might be more interested in thinking applied to worldly problems (S-sensation). INTP also can be the engineer or architect, who might be introverted in that (s)he works alone, but is dealing with laws and practical problems of the material world. T-Thinking in general is oriented that way.Not saying that you are wrong (I really do not recall enough Jungian specifics to say) but I seem to recall that Jung described Introverted Thinking (Ti) as being the specific function in touch with the Archetypes. If I interpret this correctly, INTPs and ISTPs (the two Ti-dominant types) would be most in touch with the Archetypes in Jung's scheme. Perhaps Jungian Intuition (Ni or Ne) is better associated with imagination.
Jung also defined N as awareness of generalities and patterns, which are archetypes. It is also awareness of possibilities beyond visible actualities, which makes it restless and yang. Imagination might be this, or else just conjuring up images. It is also conjuring up what is ideal, rather than "real" in the world, and that can link imagination back to archetypes; the perfect prototypes of things. Plato's ideal Republic, etc.
In terms of the philosophy wheel, much of what we today call often "intuition," such as psychic impressions or hunches, I would place in the Feeling sector. But Jung emphasized the archetypal aspects of intuition too, I think.
The page Virgil referred us to correlates well with some of the links I made, as well as those he listed. The Feng Sui correlations at the bottom of the page seem based on Chinese sensitivities to nature. These I think are significant. Also listed are associations based on the preferences and needs of the ancient upper class, which aren't too useful I don't think. One problem for me is that the colors don't follow in a circle like the color wheel around the Directions, so it's not quite what I'm looking for.
At the top of the page however, is mentioned the color spectrum, with the same yang to yin correlations I mentioned. Bright colors are yang, and cool colors are yin. I associate bright colors with East because that is yang, or rising energy, and dark colors with West because West is yin. But even though they say green is a cool yin color, they associate it also with rising energy and place it on the East.
Red on this page is associated with whatever is most developed and the start of a new phase. It is placed in the South meaning "fame." That makes some sense astrologically (Capricorn, or 10th house). They also mentioned red's association with courage, passion, vitality, etc. and also was associated here with seeing "order," which would gell with archetypal awareness. Yellow is "earth" but is also linked with clarity and intelligence. It is placed outside the color wheel order wherever a "transitional phase" is indicated. Green is renewal and vigor, and they also mentioned it was productive and that dark green was associated with money. They placed it in the bottom east where I would usually put yellow. Blue as well as black was also associated with water, and both were associated with winter and north. They also mentioned purple's mystical meanings, and that it is linked to royalty because it is rare and expensive to make. The Wong book might be good to look at; I assume that's where Virgil got his "celestial" correlations.
It is interesting that Virgil uses Eastern thought as a guide for living in this world and Christianity for the next. But obviously what we do in this world has a bearing on what happens in the next. So there must be some commonality between East and West in that regard, I would think!
alchemy, nature, turnings
I guess this is a place to post or develop ideas about types in general, and possible relationships of these to turnings and generations, since there's no use in starting a new thread.
My Alchemy book by Titus Burckhardt (Penguin Books, 1960/67) includes this passage on p.127-28:
(my clarifcations in parentheses)
"The 4 natural properties or 'modes of operation' (hot, cold, wet, dry, which the authors mention early in T4T), which are related in pairs to Sulphur and Quicksilver (the liquid metals used in alchemy and which are symbolically related to yin and yang, male and female), can, in their successive coagulations and dissolutions, enter into a variety of combinations with one another. Generation only takes place when the properties of Sulphur and Quicksilver mutually penetrate each other. When sulphurous dryness joins one-sidedly with mercurial coldness, so that coagulation (dryness) and contraction (coldness) come together (without the action thereon of the expansive heat of Sulphur or the dissolving humidity of Quicksilver), a complete rigor of soul and body ensues. In terms of life, this is the torpor of old age, and on the ethical level, avarice. It is the wrapping up of ego-consciousness in itself, a mortal condition of the soul which has lost its original receptivity and vitality, both spiritually and sensually. The other way round, a one-sided conjunction of heat and humidity (i.e., expansion and dissolution) results in a volatilization of powers. It resembles the condition of consuming passion, vice, and dissipation of spirit. Characteristically, the two types of disequilibrium are usually to be found together. One begets the other. The numbing of the powers of the soul leads to dissipation, and the fire of a passion lived out regardlessly brings inward death. The soul which is avaricious with itself and closes itself to the Spirit, is carried away in the vortex of dissolving impressions. Creative equilibrium is only produced when the expansive power of Sulphur (fire, heat) and the contractive power of Quicksilver (earth, cold) hold the balance, and when, at the same time, the masculine coagulating power (air, dry) enters into a fruitful union with the feminine dissolving capacity (water, moist). This is the true marriage of the two poles of being, which are represented inter alia by the intersecting triangles of the Seal of Solomon (a diagram of the 6-pointed star formed from two triangles pointed in opposite directions) -- the sign which also symbolizes the synthesis of the four elements. The applications of this law are quite unlimited..."
This seems like a description of the four turnings and their disequilibrium. America has moved between the "spirit-dead" 1st turning and the "dissipated and volatile" 3rd turning, resulting from the extreme polarities of the secular Crisis and the spiritual Awakening. One imbalance begets the other.
There is a problem when I try to extend these terms to the generational archetypes. In the Summer we have the watery Artists in midlife and the fiery Prophets in youth, and the dissolving humidity and expansive heat come together in the Awakening, which usually ends up as "consuming passion." In the Winter we have the earthy Nomads in midlife and airy civic heroes in youth, and we have the spirit-killing combination of cold contraction and dry coagulation (which is the fixing of things into rigid forms or shapes). So far so good.
It is clear that Spring can correspond to moist in the cycle of Nature, and Summer to heat, but there is some mixing up of the following two phases; we think of Autumn as dry and Winter as cold. By generational archetypes, this means watery Artists predominate in Spring as youth, and similarly with the fiery Prophets in Summer. But it is not clear at all that the generally earthy, pragmatic Nomads are to be identified with air or the dry quality, for despite the Nomad's airy mobility, air represents relationships and mentality, the fortes of Civic heroes with their bent toward detached (dry) congeniality, cooperation and scientific knowledge, and not the impulsive, pragmatic and independent Nomads. Even so, in the cycle of generations and turnings, the same mixture of heat (fire) and humidity (water) join together in Summer, and cold (earth) and dryness (air) join together in Winter, just as the alchemical pattern describes.
It is clear that Americans have not learned the balance needed to produce a genuinely creative and productive society, and we are on our way back to spiritual death. The discussions here, as well as the political and cultural situation, show this. We have not distilled the positive qualities of the Awakening in a balanced way, but are merely reacting to its overly-consuming passions by losing the Awakening's valid experiences and discoveries, and therefore merely tightening and closing up again. America is an aging country now. I don't know how many times we can go on in this unbalanced and destructive cycle, and still advance as a nation.
Nice to see you back Eric.
I think I agree with your points, although that third paragraph made my brain hurt.
It does seem as though the center is now gone, and no matter which direction we turn we find the ledge. Our politics are hopelessly toxic, debased, and our leadership (on both sides of the aisle) deeply delusional. Our culture is a husk of its former self, having almost wholly sold and or lost its soul. People just seem increasingly mean, and brokenhearted. And if saving the suburbs and the Pottery Barn requires future generations being arse deep in nuclear waste you can all just forget about it.
The world of my growing up was beautiful and ruinous. Now its only ruinous.
Indeed. Eric, good to see you are still with us. Your post will take a while to digest.
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
Is anyone knowledgeable about MBTI type still around? I'm having trouble typing my wife and I'd appreciate some help.
I believe that she is ESTP and that actually explains a lot about how we get along (I'm an INTP). But the descriptions of the type I can find are only half right. The half that is right is that she loves activites, she says she feels most alive when she is doing something like sailing or flying. The part that doesn't fit is that most of the descriptions say that an MBTI is a master at reading people. For example, this is from www.personalitypage.com:
This does not sound like her at all. But none of the other nearby types fit either. Is it possible for her to be this type but be suppressing this part of it for some reason?ESTPs have an uncanny ability to perceive people's attitudes and motivations. They pick up on little cues which go completely unnoticed by most other types, such as facial expressions and stance. They're typically a couple of steps ahead of the person they're interacting with. ESTPs use this ability to get what they want out of a situation.
Also, I got her to take an MBTI test out of a book once, but she tested as something else and that description didn't seem like her either. I can't remember what she tested as and I lost the results.
Jeff '61
That description sounds a bit more like an ESFP. Picking up on body language and visual cues from people is something that F's are particularly good at... whereas T's like me are pretty clueless in that department. But I am getting better at it :wink:
I believe it is more a matter of S vs. N as opposed to T vs. F. S notes details, including body language, while N is "lost in the clouds," looking for concepts while ignoring such details. The best (or slickest) salesmen are ESTPs because the type combines Ti's gift of "seeing all the angles" with Se's gift of reading body language. I presume that ESFPs would be equally adept at reading body language since Se is also dominant. However, lacking Ti, ESFP would not "see all the angles" and sales totals would slump as compared to the ESTP. I guess the ESFP might "read" what somebody else is _feeling_ as compared to the ESTP who might "read" what somebody else is _thinking_. Perhaps that means that the ESFP might read what the "buyer" thinks of them personally while the ESTP might read what the "buyer" thinks of the object to be sold.That description sounds a bit more like an ESFP. Picking up on body language and visual cues from people is something that F's are particularly good at... whereas T's like me are pretty clueless in that department. But I am getting better at it :wink:
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."
-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
So you're saying that she doesn't sound like an ESTP. What other types then exhibit a keen connection with the physical world but lack the ability to read other people.
Jeff '61
Oh well, I guess the interest in this topic has waned. Does anyone know of any other forums where Myers-Briggs typing is discussed?
Jeff '61
I would PM Seadog. He's a resident expert, and still lurks here. I'm sure he'll pick-up a PM.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
