I just put it back to decades to reduce quibbling over who goes where.Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
What about the Cuspers? :wink:
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Re: Missed by 1
I just put it back to decades to reduce quibbling over who goes where.What about the Cuspers? :wink:
Right-Wing liberal, slow progressive, and other contradictions straddling both the past and future, but out of touch with the present . . .
"We also know there are known unknowns.
That is to say, we know there are some things we do not know." - Donald Rumsfeld
Does
really exclude ENTP and ENFJ? Or does this mean ENxx?1968 Peter Gibbons ENFP/ENTJ
Similarly for
1977 Justin '77 ISTP/ENTP
Jeff '61
As for me, I've taken it twice and gotten both of those answers. No matter how I configure, I've never gotten ESTP or INTP. Mysterious....
I also note that, with the exception of Andy '85, I'm the only one here who tested ISTP. Woo-hoo!
If you put a gun to my head I'd say ENFP fits best. But my F and P are relatively weak. What would that mean? What developmental issues might that indicate?
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
response to Peter Gibbons post
Developmental issues? What it means is that your guinea pig is a wierdo.
I recall there being disagreement on this point in earlier discussions here, but I really have to believe that the questionable function scale (T-F) would almost certainly indicate that neither T nor F is your dominant function (one or the other would necessarily be your auxiliary). If, by comparison, every test has shown N dominating S by a mile, then surely N is your dominant function. The scales would suggest that the order of your functions is:If you put a gun to my head I'd say ENFP fits best. But my F and P are relatively weak. What would that mean? What developmental issues might that indicate?
1) N
2) T or F
3) T or F
4) S
So what types are N-dominant? Your possibilities are:
ENTP
ENFP
INTJ
INFJ
If you really are one of the two you test as, surely it is ENFP since ENTJ does not make the "final four." But ultimately, you go by whatever description fits you best, not necessarily how you test. If ENFP clearly fits you best, then you are ENFP.
Note that the Great Meece is dead wrong to say that the test is the final determinant. The test is ever being perfected simply to help people who do not have an intuitive sense of the sixteen types to find their true type. The description, not the test, is the final determinant. In fact, I suspect the Great Meece should carefully scrutinize the INFJ and INFP descriptions in order to find his true type (I know he tested as INFP or something recently and he thought that he might possibly be one, so I was surprised that he reverted back to INTP). There are plenty of INFJ and INFP philosophers since the Jungian F (admittedly not the Meecean F) does not preclude the ability to reason.
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."
-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
Yup!
Re: Yup!
Copycat.
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
Re: response to Peter Gibbons post
You have no idea . . .
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
Eric does have an interesting take on things, that much is certain.I recall there being disagreement on this point in earlier discussions here, but I really have to believe that the questionable function scale (T-F) would almost certainly indicate that neither T nor F is your dominant function (one or the other would necessarily be your auxiliary). If, by comparison, every test has shown N dominating S by a mile, then surely N is your dominant function. The scales would suggest that the order of your functions is:If you put a gun to my head I'd say ENFP fits best. But my F and P are relatively weak. What would that mean? What developmental issues might that indicate?
1) N
2) T or F
3) T or F
4) S
So what types are N-dominant? Your possibilities are:
ENTP
ENFP
INTJ
INFJ
If you really are one of the two you test as, surely it is ENFP since ENTJ does not make the "final four." But ultimately, you go by whatever description fits you best, not necessarily how you test. If ENFP clearly fits you best, then you are ENFP.
Note that the Great Meece is dead wrong to say that the test is the final determinant. The test is ever being perfected simply to help people who do not have an intuitive sense of the sixteen types to find their true type. The description, not the test, is the final determinant. In fact, I suspect the Great Meece should carefully scrutinize the INFJ and INFP descriptions in order to find his true type (I know he tested as INFP or something recently and he thought that he might possibly be one, so I was surprised that he reverted back to INTP). There are plenty of INFJ and INFP philosophers since the Jungian F (admittedly not the Meecean F) does not preclude the ability to reason.
Thanks for you input Stonewall. ENFP fits best I suppose, so let's run with it. So if I understand correctly my functions go as follows:
Dominant: Extraverted Intuition
Auxiliary: Introverted Feeling
Tertiary: Extraverted Thinking
Inferior: Introverted Sensing
But if my F is not that strong and the auxillary function is supposed to develop in the 6-12 age range, then did something technically "go wrong" with my development at that time? And, BTW, what the hell does "introverted feeling" mean anyway? :shock:
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
You place too much faith in the ability of such a simple test to quantify with any accuracy. If these functions could be accurately quantified, your F might in reality be distinctly higher than your T (though not as far removed as your N is from your S).
Someone more current on this stuff should answer that.And, BTW, what the hell does "introverted feeling" mean anyway? :shock:
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."
-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
Introverted Feeling
In one of my favorite novels, there's a scene where the leading character, a systems analyst and a very strong T, is musing over his memories of his late wife and comments (internally) that he had no idea if he loved her - perhaps he wasn't capable of it (his culture had reinforced that terribly) but he missed her dreadfully. That's introverted feeling. BTW, I read the guy as INTJ - totally.
Well, this is how the Thomson book puts it (highly paraphrased): Fi is a right-brain function so it happens on the fly, so to speak, so it isn't always recognized as a form of judgement as it feels more intuitive or empathic. If we use Fi to make a good spaghetti sauce, we won't follow recipes or measure ingredients. We'll sample the sauce as we're making it gauging it's qualities by their ideal outcome and adjusting for circumstantial variables so the emerging pattern stays on track.
There's a section on how Fi works in different types. I'll quote the entire section on Fi in EFPs:
Hm. I'm not sure that helps that much. How about this quote: "Moral choices prompted by Introverted Feeling are not derived from legal principles [Te] or the social obligations that accrue to our roles in the world [Fe]. They're derived from the subjective experience of being human, our will to deal with a situation in terms of human ideals."EFPs as dominant Extraverted Perceivers, take outer reality for granted -- as it happens to them. They like people, enjoy the unpredictable nature of direct experience, and have a tendency to live in the present. Accordingly, most EFPs take jobs that involve a rapidly changing environment and interaction with others, and they use Introverted Feeling to find common human ground with the people they're meeting.'
When Introverted Feeling is minimally developed, EFPs use it only to support their Extraverted motives, and they rely too much on their outer experience for their self-image. Such types are good at identifying with others, but they seem unpredictable, because their basis for a relationship is shaped by whatever people they happen to be dealing with. They're hurt and puzzled, however, when others question their inconsistancy, because they're trying so hard to connect with others in an empathic way.
The better EFPs develop Intraverted Feeling, the more they recognize their power to support unconditional human values in those aspects of life that society has overlooked. ESFPs tend to do this concretely, by acquainting themselves with the facts and reaching out to people who need them. The late Princess Diana, for example, took he Sensate world for granted but used her advantages in that realm--her wealth, fame, and charisma--to attract the world's attention to the poor, the sick and the displaced.
ENFPs are more likely to focus on patterns of understanding, attempting to change people's ideas about prevailing social or psychological structures, or to show people, by prophetic example, the creative benefits of a new approach.
I believe you are a Star Trek fan, so it might interest you that there's also a section that describes a fictional race that doesn't have the Introverted Feeling function, the Vorta from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
Does that help, or just raise more questions?
Jeff '61
Yes. It gives me things to consider. Thanks. Also, by researching the Vorta on Google I bumped into some great Star Trek sites!Well, this is how the Thomson book puts it (highly paraphrased): Fi is a right-brain function so it happens on the fly, so to speak, so it isn't always recognized as a form of judgement as it feels more intuitive or empathic. If we use Fi to make a good spaghetti sauce, we won't follow recipes or measure ingredients. We'll sample the sauce as we're making it gauging it's qualities by their ideal outcome and adjusting for circumstantial variables so the emerging pattern stays on track.
There's a section on how Fi works in different types. I'll quote the entire section on Fi in EFPs:
Hm. I'm not sure that helps that much. How about this quote: "Moral choices prompted by Introverted Feeling are not derived from legal principles [Te] or the social obligations that accrue to our roles in the world [Fe]. They're derived from the subjective experience of being human, our will to deal with a situation in terms of human ideals."EFPs as dominant Extraverted Perceivers, take outer reality for granted -- as it happens to them. They like people, enjoy the unpredictable nature of direct experience, and have a tendency to live in the present. Accordingly, most EFPs take jobs that involve a rapidly changing environment and interaction with others, and they use Introverted Feeling to find common human ground with the people they're meeting.'
When Introverted Feeling is minimally developed, EFPs use it only to support their Extraverted motives, and they rely too much on their outer experience for their self-image. Such types are good at identifying with others, but they seem unpredictable, because their basis for a relationship is shaped by whatever people they happen to be dealing with. They're hurt and puzzled, however, when others question their inconsistancy, because they're trying so hard to connect with others in an empathic way.
The better EFPs develop Intraverted Feeling, the more they recognize their power to support unconditional human values in those aspects of life that society has overlooked. ESFPs tend to do this concretely, by acquainting themselves with the facts and reaching out to people who need them. The late Princess Diana, for example, took he Sensate world for granted but used her advantages in that realm--her wealth, fame, and charisma--to attract the world's attention to the poor, the sick and the displaced.
ENFPs are more likely to focus on patterns of understanding, attempting to change people's ideas about prevailing social or psychological structures, or to show people, by prophetic example, the creative benefits of a new approach.
I believe you are a Star Trek fan, so it might interest you that there's also a section that describes a fictional race that doesn't have the Introverted Feeling function, the Vorta from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
Does that help, or just raise more questions?
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
I scrutinized the types thoroughly, and I admit INFJ was tempting to think was me because of the shared interests. It's aligned with prophets and oracles and such. It's a very positive type too, so flattering. However, I think taking the test is better, because it cuts deeper than just estimating what seems to fit. Knowing the polarities and what they mean, I could not possibly be any kind of J. I just don't live that way, however much I wish I were scheduled and orderly and such; I'm just not! I like to do what I feel like doing at the moment, more often than not. I like my freedom. INTP is the architect and philosopher; that's me. So I am INTP with a strong F tinge (which takes me away from the computer nerd crowd of INTPs).
According to what you said Seadog, then N is my dominant function. I like your approach and agree, though I don't think it is shared by many in the field. According to them, I am T dominant, and if I answer one or two questions differently, I become F dominant.
BTW I'm surprised there are so many Js here; don't they have more urgent tasks to do than to while away the hours speculating on issues on this site? One wonders...... Mike Alexander I can understand; he puts a lot of time into making the S&H ideas useful in pragmatic ways.
There certainly are lots of F philosophers; existentialism is F after all. It's just a different kind of reason, as Heidegger explained. But they can be very scholarly and rigorous.
F is not thinking per se. It is not using logic and making lists or measurements or estimating causes and effects. F does include a basis for making decisions "from the heart" however (so is a kind of Judging); and it a different way of knowing than reason and logic, but knowledge nevertheless. So I think I am aligned with Jung ok on what F is.
I usually multitask when I'm on this site. I have multiple windows open, a phone in front of me, something to read, and patrons to help. That's usually why my posts, though frequent, are generally short.
Here is a new one for the junkies. Haven't taken it yet but it looks like it might be okay. Mr. Meece, your analysis please. :grin:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/j/5/j5j/IPIP/
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."
-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
Have we had this one before?
http://www.tk421.net/character/
"What went unforeseen, however, was that the elephant would at some point in the last years of the 20th century be possessed, in both body and spirit, by a coincident fusion of mutant ex-Liberals and holy-rolling Theocrats masquerading as conservatives in the tradition of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan: Death by transmogrification, beginning with The Invasion of the Party Snatchers."
-- Victor Gold, Aide to Barry Goldwater
I'm Yoda!!!
I'll have to hold off on this one until I have some more time.
Who the hell is "Delenn"? I never watch Babylon 5!
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.
Delenn is the Minbari ambassador. She's a great character.Who the hell is "Delenn"? I never watch Babylon 5!
I recommend B5 if you haven't already seen it. When I first tried to watch it, it didn't make much sense. Start at the beginning. It's good stuff.
Marcus Cole from B5. (But I've known since I was little that I am Mr. Spock).I'm Yoda!!!
Jeff '61
The little rounded yeo-being
As am I. I'm glad in that I don't recognize most of the others mentioned. :oops:I'm Yoda!!!
Alliterative last words
- Your score on Extraversion is average,
(a) high level of Agreeableness,
Your score on Conscientiousness is average,
Your score on Neuroticism is low,
Your score on Openness to Experience is high.
From the long form.
___________________________________
From the short:
(dropped a point to 5)
- Your score on Extraversion is high, (up about 10 points on average)
(a) high level of Agreeableness,
Your score on Conscientiousness is average,
Your score on Neuroticism is low,
Your score on Openness to Experience is high.
