We're a precocious lot.Originally Posted by Mr. Reed
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We're a precocious lot.
Umm...OK. Where can I go to find out if I'm an INFP or ESTJ or whatever?
You can go here -- I've found this site to be a lot of fun.
Yes we did!
I'm still an ISTJ.
Estp!!!!!!!!!!!
I was an ESTP, although my N/S score was pretty close to the halfway point. So whom does that make me like?
It means your in the same catagory as FDR, the Promoter.
http://keirsey.com/personality/spet.html
http://www.typelogic.com/estp.html
The Artisans called Promoters are not only concrete in speech and utilitarian in achieving their goals, they are also directive and expressive in their social interactions. They have no hesitation at all in approaching strangers and persuading them to do something. And others do their bidding, even on slight acquaintance.
Promoters are men and women of action. When someone of this personality is present, things begin to happen: the lights come on, the music plays, the game begins. And a game it is for the Promoter, the entrepreneur, the troubleshooter, the negotiator. Promoting is the art of winning others to your position, giving them confidence to go along with what you propose, and Promoter's seem especially able to maneuver others in the direction they want them to go. In a sense, they are able to handle people with much the same skill as Crafter's handle tools, operate machines, or play musical instruments. You might say that people are instruments in the Promoters' hands, and that they "play" them with great artistry. Promoters make up approximately ten per cent of the general population, and if only one adjective could be used to describe them, "resourceful" would be an apt choice.
Life is never dull around Promoters. Witty, clever, and fun, Promoters live life with a theatrical flourish which makes even the most routine events seem exciting. Not that they waste much time on routine events. Promoters have a knack for knowing where the action is. They always seem to have tickets to the "hot" show or "big" game (or can get them when others can't), and they usually know the best restaurants, where the headwaiters are likely to call them by name. To be sure, Promoters have a hearty appetite for the finer things of life, the best food, the best wine, expensive cars, and fashionable clothes. And they are extremely attentive to others and smooth in social circles, knowing many, many people by name, and knowing how to say just the right thing to most everyone they meet. None are as socially sophisticated as Promoters, none as suave and polished-and none such master manipulators of the people around them.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Ernest Hemingway are examples of the Promoter Artisan temperament.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Me too. I took M-B yesterday in a Leadership Development Class at work. My score came out I=48 (out of 65), S=10, T=64 and J=50. No surprises there, except I feel I'm much less a J now than when my parents were alive.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
I ran into my sister and 7yo niece today and my niece definitely strikes me as ENFJ. My sister seems to be ESFP.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Myers-Briggs for Amphibians
For all the fine and intelligent people who oppose profiling, stereotyping, identity labeling, and four-letter categorization, doesn't Myers-Briggs strike you as a cheap form of psycho-alphabetical manipulation? When will the social sciences give us something more substantial than parlor entertainment?
I don't even need a herpetologist to tell me that I am a FROG (Fiercely Redoubtable Obnoxious Geezer).
Oh, I have no objection to profiling, stereotyping or labelling... as long as I'm doing it to myself and control how those results are used.
Probably never. So what? Entertainment is valuable too.
Yes we did!
I'm an INTJ or something. Supposedly a "Mastermind". I think the description does fit me rather well though.
Only in the hands of those who want to use it for manipulative purposes.
Are you saying that the studies of culture, economics, psychology, and sociology are little more than parlor entertainment? They all use the scientific method, even if they're observing other kinds of phenomena than you do in your work as a biologist.When will the social sciences give us something more substantial than parlor entertainment?
I don't understand why you seem to be questioning their legitimacy.
MBTI vs. CNCI
I would agree that most MBTI testing questionnaires, such as this one, are fun to take. But so are most carnival rides. All I’m asking is where does it take you? You may as well plot an astrological chart or go see the gypsy lady with her Tarot cards. These are parlor games, psychologically meaningless, and possibly even harmful to those who are easily beguiled by symbolic profiling. Take a close look at any MBTI test for its preponderance of ambiguity. You could start by asking why “Intuition” stands opposite to “Sensation” and not opposite to “Thinking,” which itself stands opposite to “Feeling.” What? Does this mean that Intuition and Feeling are measurably different from each other? If so, how does the MBTI measure that difference? If I have a "hunch" do I have an intuition or a feeling? There are just too many such ambiguities in the MBTI, and its scientific value approaches zero, IMO.
Let me offer an example of how silly these “personality” tests can be. Take Croakmore’s Neck-Color Indicator test:
1. Do you smoke tobacco? S (smoker) or N (non-smoker)
2. Do you have a tattoo? T (tattoo) or P (plain)
3. Do you support NASCAR? Z (zoom) or Q (quiet)
4. Do you believe in God? B (Believer) or A (Atheist)
Neck-color range for responses: STZB = Red Neck…(insert color range here)… NPQA = Blue Neck.
I happen to be a cool NPQA. What are you? And what does it mean? Not much more than the MBTI, IMHO.
The questions you ask, Croak (except maybe for the last one) are pretty shallow. Most personality tests probe a little deeper than that.
Sincerely, an NPQB.
I would agree that most MBTI testing questionnaires, such as this one, are fun to take. But so are most carnival rides.
Hahahahaha
"And I ain't even know how it came to this
Except that fame is
The worst drug known to man
It's stronger than, heroin
When you could look in the mirror like, 'There I am'
And still not see, what you've become
I know I'm guilty of it too but, not like them
You lost one"
[NB n00b alert]
Is there a "which kind of cold blooded critter are you test" ?
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP
There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
If I worked for a corporation that evaluated my abilities from a four-letter MBTI test result I would quit ASAP if not sooner. There must be better ways to make personnel decisions. What about skin color and intelligence? Maybe the whites should do the brain work while the blacks carry out the trash...or vice versa. Red heads have fiery tempers; maybe they should run the complaints department. Old people are slow; let them be the last to use the bathroom. And don't put the pretty girls in charge of anything but making coffee in the morning. Each one of these suggestions is at least as relevant and useful as an MBTI test result. Would you want to be assigned work, judged, or otherwise discriminated for or against on the basis of a parlor game? Think about it. Wouldn't you rather have your abilities and perfomance judged on their own merits?
I think Croak's Silent generation temperment is showing.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
You may or may not be right. I certainly understand your feelings. However, IIRC Gallup is making money hand over fist doing this contractually for thousands of companies. They may make more this way than they do with straight polling.If I worked for a corporation that evaluated my abilities from a four-letter MBTI test result I would quit ASAP if not sooner. There must be better ways to make personnel decisions. What about skin color and intelligence? Maybe the whites should do the brain work while the blacks carry out the trash...or vice versa. Red heads have fiery tempers; maybe they should run the complaints department. Old people are slow; let them be the last to use the bathroom. And don't put the pretty girls in charge of anything but making coffee in the morning. Each one of these suggestions is at least as relevant and useful as an MBTI test result. Would you want to be assigned work, judged, or otherwise discriminated for or against on the basis of a parlor game? Think about it. Wouldn't you rather have your abilities and perfomance judged on their own merits?
OK. I'll just go with a "agree to disagree" with this. We don't use the MBTI to "evaluate" people, say during performance reviews. The only time it comes into play in perforance reviews is in the part of the processs where goal setting for the next year occurs. Even then, it's just a fuzzy guide for general questions. The more detailed questions are so refined that only indiviualized questions are used. The actual results for the current year's performance metrics are the data I keep in an employee's file. The data is just notations of when an employee goes above and beyond or does a screw up. I think the fairness level is better if there's an actual year round set of data collected when it happens. On day to day work, it may be used to get some idea of how to assign tasks. But again, task assignment is more of a group exercise than a top down directive. That does not exist anymore. To paraphase a commercial, "this ain't your father's workplace anymore". I know most companies are on this now-nowism Wall Street bulimimc binge and purge attitude on the workforce, but not mine. It's also very decentralized to the point where most of the decisions are made at the "program level". That's the folks just above me. Since one of my metrics on my review is retention, I just go off and get rid of stupid rules like dress codes, for example. As long as you don't smell like cheese or show up naked, I'm cool with it. I have the every day is jeans day policy, IOW. Techies don't like to dress up in general, so tossing the dress code improves morale. I know I hate dress codes, but I'm not sure it's an INTP thing or a first wave X'er thing. I'm used to as few rules as possible and either ignore "stupid rules" or do something to get rid of them. The appeal to the bottom line usually gets a rule tossed, FWIW. As for those other criteria you have above, naww those sorts of things don't apply. If someone who had purple skin inverviewed and had the proper skillset, I'd hire him or her. Besides here in Texas there iare no more minorities or majorities or whatever. From what I gather from what you wrote, FWIW, race or whatever can't even be determined anymore. if there is some ancient law still on the books banning interracial marriage, we should just toss it, since it's so common that nobody call tell what race anyone is in any event. I'm a mutt FWIW (N. European/Cherokee) so that may be another reason why I just don't care about that issue.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP
There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
The MBTI was only presented in my office as a tool, to help aspiring leaders understand that others don't respond to the same situations in the same way that they do, and why.
Croaker's arguments do provide excellent food for thought. However, while I do see that, taken to extremes, MBTI has the potential for pigeonholing people, one could make the same argument about Generational Theory, too... in fact, Generations did come up as well during the same training. If we really believe we're all about stereotyping people here, we may as well all go home.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
Point well taken. But generational theory has objective attributes and sets temporal boundaries, while MBTI works the subjective territorial of self analysis using ambiguous methods. Yes, I know you could say about me: "There goes another Silent stereotype." That's fair enough. I'd rather hear that than somebody saying "What would you expect from an INTJ—or an NPQA, for that matter?
Yes, the possibility of subjective pigeonholing is real -- in fact, it's a virtual certainty in a 1T ("Organization Man" redux.) When we Xers are in charge of "Human Resources" (or whatever they decide to call it in 20 years), we'll find nothing at all strange in reducing human behavior to a series of numbers. (To say nothing of the Singularity, wherein human behavior really is a series of numbers.)
Yes we did!
Straha was born in 1987.
"Fourth Turning, my ass." -- Justin '79
"Nothing is sacred." -- Craig '84
"That sucks." -- William '84
Alex MnWi was born in 1987, not 1986.
Chris Loyd's name has one L.
Susan Brombacher/Chicken Little is an INFP. She said, "I hate being an INFP in an ESTJ world":
http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...6363#post16363
"Fourth Turning, my ass." -- Justin '79
"Nothing is sacred." -- Craig '84
"That sucks.
