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You are a Faithful Visionary.

personalDNA

about you

You are a Visionary

Your imagination, self-assuredness, and knowledge of the world combine to make you a VISIONARY.
You have clear notions of how things could be, and the confidence to try to make them that way.
You enjoy having a routine, and prefer comfort and familiarity to risk and adventure.
Not needing others' approval to forge ahead, you are confident in your designs for the future.
Your imagination allows you to envision the world as a better place.
You're better at thinking of the big picture than you are with details, and you can see wonder in abstract things.
Style and appearances are important to you, and you have a good eye for beauty.
You are somewhat rigid in your beliefs, which comes from both confidence and an aversion to change.
You are good at creating works of art in forms with which you're familiar.
Your independent streak allows you to make decisions efficiently and to trust your instincts
You are balanced in your approach to problem-solving, not letting your emotions hold you up.
Generally, you believe that you control your life, and that external forces only play a limited role in determining what happens to you.

If you want to be different:

Appreciate the earthly, functional elements of things.
Your clarity of vision sometimes prevents you from being open to new ideas. Try expanding your horizon of experiences, and experimenting with novel ways of doing things.

how you relate to others

You are Faithful

Your trust in others, respect for tradition, and caring nature make you FAITHFUL.
Maintaining a few intimate relationships is more important to you than knowing a lot of people, and you share a lot with your close friends.
Those who have managed to get close to you value your camaraderie, and they know that they can trust you with anything; you're a good listener.
While you can usually see several sides of an argument, you often have a strong opinion as to which side is correct—the order of things is usually clear to you.
Your perspective on the world is based on careful observation, and you know a lot about how people feel in—and react to—many situations.
Your exploration of others' feelings has led you to believe that although people generally act appropriately, having clear social rules is very important to a functional society.
Time alone for reflection is important to you—you are introspective and aware of your own feelings.
Faithful is as faithful does—you expect those with whom you are close to be loyal to you, and you take betrayal of your trust very seriously.
Your independent streak allows you to make decisions efficiently and to trust your instincts
You are balanced in your approach to problem-solving, not letting your emotions hold you up.
Generally, you believe that you control your life, and that external forces only play a limited role in determining what happens to you.

If you want to be different:

Some of the alternate perspectives that you understand may have more value than you give them credit for—keep in mind that right and wrong aren't always so clear-cut.
While you are able to reap the benefits of your time alone, and may see interacting with a lot of people as more tiring than exciting, remember that there is a lot to be learned from experiencing things and not just reflecting on them.

The HTML didn't work, but mine said:

Your warped personality is: CRACKPOT
All facts which don't fit your theories are just wrong. The more all-encompassing and less applicable to reality the theories, the better.

Your test results indicate that you may be an INTJ - but don't hold us to that.

Originally Posted by Croakmore

Dave,

Here's a quick test to determined if you have the "God gene." I wondereing if the God gene has dominant and recessive alleles. If so, then a true believer would be homozygously dominant, an athetist would be homozygously recessive, and an agnostic would be heterozygously confused, defaulting to the domiance of God, of course.

--Croakmore (INTJ or INTP)

LOL, I can't beleive I missed this one the last time I looked through this thread!

I scored 8, average

Oh, Eric, I've been thinking about your philosophy wheel in relation to MBTI today. IMO:

T: lower left half
F: upper right half

S; lower right half
N: upper left half

The left part of the wheel is NT
The right part of the wheel is SF
The top part of the wheel is NF
The bottom part of the wheel is ST

Do my fellow T4Ter INTPs have any experience with conversion (religious, political, etc.)?

That tornadizo from Ohio has early and often posted upon his change of view in matters political and religious by an act of conversion. He is quoted elsewhere again in the last few days. He speaks of a striking political disclosure that informed him of his previous idiocy.

I, an INTP, have come to my views of the world by an accretion rather than being blinded by a poltical revelation or an enthusiasm from the outside that changes everything held before in the relative blink of an eye. Do INTPs have conversion experiences? Do advise.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Do my fellow T4Ter INTPs have any experience with conversion (religious, political, etc.)?
Do INTPs have conversion experiences? Do advise.

I did; although it was an experience on my own, not responding to someone's attempt to convert me; and although I am really INxP. But I experienced a strong inflow of love energy that changed my life in Summer 1966. I was very curious about life then, and also it was a contact high since so many people in my area were doing LSD and stuff. Later I saw the astrology connection.

I would also say I was much more typical INTP before then.

Originally Posted by Odin

Oh, Eric, I've been thinking about your philosophy wheel in relation to MBTI today. IMO:

T: lower left half
F: upper right half

S; lower right half
N: upper left half

The left part of the wheel is NT
The right part of the wheel is SF
The top part of the wheel is NF
The bottom part of the wheel is ST

That's exactly how I see it.

Eric M

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

That's exactly how I see it.

Eric M

Hi Eric! Where have you been?

http://www.geocities.com/fuzzymartia...ped/index.html

Hehehe............go figure.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

Hehehe............go figure.

Come on! Link to the quiz?

Originally Posted by Odin

Hi Eric! Where have you been?

Well, I dunno; how about, elsewhere! Thanks for asking.

*BUMP*

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

Hero: INTJ -- The Hero generation is clearly T as opposed to F. They are communitarian which suggests that they respond to an active, imposing J philosopher as opposed to a passive, persuading P philosopher. If the four IN philosophers indeed match up with the four generational archetypes, then the INTJ must speak to the Hero generation. Indeed the INTJ philosopher logically brings structural order from chaos and the Heroes are coming out of chaos with no time to think about their "feelings." It makes perfect sense that the INTJ philosopher would speak to the Hero generation.

...

INTJ speaks to Heroes

This is interesting, the majority of the philosophers I like seem to be INTJs.

In one of my classes we took the Myers-Briggs test and my results were exactly the same: narrowly introverted, narrowly judging, strongly intuitive and feeling. INFJ again!

Apparently it's a very rare type but one girl in the class is also one. In a class of 20, which is overwhelmingly extroverted (75%), what are the chances?

She's cute too, but I digress.

Originally Posted by 1990

In one of my classes we took the Myers-Briggs test and my results were exactly the same: narrowly introverted, narrowly judging, strongly intuitive and feeling. INFJ again!

Apparently it's a very rare type but one girl in the class is also one. In a class of 20, which is overwhelmingly extroverted (75%), what are the chances?

I'm weak I, weak N, weak T, weak J.[/quote]

She's cute too, but I digress.

So you already have a bunch of pick-up lines at your disposal. Furthermore, as you know her personality type, you may act accordingly.

You've never had it so good!

Originally Posted by 1990

In one of my classes we took the Myers-Briggs test and my results were exactly the same: narrowly introverted, narrowly judging, strongly intuitive and feeling. INFJ again!

Apparently it's a very rare type but one girl in the class is also one. In a class of 20, which is overwhelmingly extroverted (75%), what are the chances?

She's cute too, but I digress.

INFJs make up only 1% of the US population IIRC!!!

Let's see, I'm guessing Sean '90 is either an INTJ of the crackpot variety or an ISTJ of the stubbornly boneheaded variety.

Originally Posted by Odin

INFJs make up only 1% of the US population IIRC!!!

I know, we're probably meant to be.

What are the MBTI type of various political figures active today? my educated guesses are:

Bush Jr: ISFJ

Dick Cheney: INTJ or ISTJ

Karl Rove: an NT, but I can't figure out which one

Hillary Clinton: INTJ or ENTJ

Barack Obama: very, very ENTP

John Edwards: ENFP

Dennis Kucinich: ISFP

Rudy Giuliani: ESTJ or ENTJ

Fred Thompson: ESTP or ESFP

John McCain: not sure, ESTJ?

Bill Clinton: ESFP

Tony Blair: ENTJ

Al Gore: INTJ

Jimmy Carter: INFP or ISFP

Originally Posted by Odin

What are the MBTI type of various political figures active today? my educated guesses are:

Bush Jr: ISFJ

According to Wikipedia, ISFJ is the most common type, with 13.5% of the population. Well, that's half of Bush's approval rating right there!

By the way, INFJ is, I'm proud to say, the RAREST type, with just 1.5%.

I make Jimmy Carter out to be an ISTJ. Don't forget, he was an engineer.

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

I don't know about the rest of you guys but I see no clear pattern here. I happened to check the Philosophy section at Selectsmart and it looks like they have acquired a number of new philosophy tests over the past few weeks. However I am not certain that all of them are worth taking for comparison purposes. For example, one appears to give fairly good results, but maybe half the philosophers considered are existentialist (not much variety). There is a Metaphysical Philosopher test, but I suspect that he has attempted to rank too many philosophers with too few questions (needs further evaluation).

I found one however which takes a different tack. It is the Philotype test and it seems to compare you, not necessarily or exclusively to philosophers according to their beliefs, but instead to their temperaments. I am not sure if it is a worthwhile effort or not but it may just give us a consistency which we are not getting from the current Ethical Philosopher test (which itself seems to me to be a fairly good one). If nothing else, it is fun and comes in handy during that free moment of boredom. Here is the link:

http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/sele...=enlightenment



INTP
Xer


#1 Kantian
#2 Ockamian
#3 Augustinian
#4 Aristotelian
#5 Baconian
#6 Humean
#7 Platonic/Socratic
#8 Randian
#9 Epicurean
#10 Lockean
#11 Stoic/Aurelian
#12 Thomist
#13 Newtonian

#1 Ockamian
#2 Aristotelian
#3 Baconian
#4 Kantian
#5 Stoic/Aurelian
#6 Thomist
\#7 Humean
#8 Platonic/Socratic
#9 Randian
#10 Epicurean
#11 Lockean
#12 Newtonian
#13 Augustinian

Ockamian

An expert with sharp instruments, you need to take care not to cut yourself. You are much given to disputation and prefer to live in poverty over taking goods you feel are tainted by their worldliness. You are deeply committed to human freedom and reject the notion that there is any final authority over and above your own thinking, which makes people look at you funny. You write books describing how everyone else got it all wrong.

Adjectives: Pugnatious, anarchistic, idealistic, consistent

Aristotelian

You want to know everything, including everyone's opinion of everything, and to make perfect sense of everything. You leave not only no stone unturned but also on occasion uproot larger trees and smaller islands in your pursuit of knowing everything. You speak in short, cryptic sentences that leave your friends talking about you for hours afterward, arguing about the uncertain but obviously very deep meaning of what you've said. You think the practical is beneath your concern, which sometimes leads you to make silly mistakes. You are convinced that since everything is connected to everything else you can extrapolate from the known to the unknown with great assurance, which sometimes leads you to reach far beyond the facts to perfectly general false conclusions, which makes people look at you funny. You like to write thin books full of thick arguments.

Adjectives: Curious, cryptic, meticulous, grandiose

Baconian

You have a fascination with machinery and mechanism, and suspect that the whole universe is a vast organic machine. You sometimes wonder where the "off" switch is, and what would happen if you flipped it. Your commitment to empiricism sometimes leads you to get lost in the wonder of the details, and your tendency to lapse into mathematical discourse and inappropriate uses of the word "orthogonal" make other people look at you funny. You write thick books at a moment's notice full of ingenious ideas that are widely reviled by the intellectual leaders of your day.

Adjectives: Clever, insatiable, thorough, mathematical

Originally Posted by Stonewall Patton

I suspect that philosophy can indeed be correlated with philosophy and I have been working on this offsite. However I did find some people's type assignments for various philosophers and this may interest people. First is a reference to Jung's stated difference between Te and Ti as judging functions:


http://lilt.ilstu.edu/rcringer/MQM22...nformation.htm

"Jung described Darwin's classification of external factors as the prototype of extroverted thinking and Kant's inner critique of knowledge as the prototype of introverted thinking."


According to Jung, Darwin exemplifies the style of thinking preferred by most xxTJ types while Kant exemplifies the style of thinking preferred by most xxTP types. This distinction would be most obvious where T is dominant as between ExTJ types and IxTP types. Jung described himself as an "Introverted Thinker with Intuition" (or an INTP in MBTI parlance) so was biased accordingly.




Below somebody attempted to assign dominant philosophies to Enneagram types and then proceeded to assign Enneagram and MBTI types to famous philosophers:


http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/20514.html

Different philosophical systems seem to reflect the ways each enneagram type views the world...

One: Platonic Idealism
Two: Communism
Three: Post-Modernism
Four: Existentialism
Five: Logical Positivism
Six: Skepticism
Seven: Epicureanism
Eight: Objectivism
Nine: Stoicism

Types of philosophers
Plato - 1w9 INTJ
Socrates - 6w5 ENTP
Aristotle - 5w6 INTP
St. Thomas Aquinas - 5w6 INTP
Rene Descartes - 5w6 INTP
David Hume - 6w5 INTP
Immanuel Kant - 5w6 INTP
Rousseau - 9w1 INFP
G.W.F. Hegel - 5w6 INTJ
Soren Kierkegaard - 4w5 INFJ
Friedrich Nietzsche - 5w4 INTP
Jean-Paul Sartre - 5w4 INTP
Albert Camus - 4w3 INFJ
Ludwig Wittgenstein - 5w6 INTP


Vince is the Enneagram expert so perhaps he would like to critique these Enneagram assignments. I will critique some of these MBTI assignments:


Plato - 1w9 INTJ - All I can say is that I never felt that I was on precisely the same wavelength as Plato and I am an INTP. I do not see him as an INFP so, assuming that he was an IN, I think it must be either INFJ or INTJ. INTJ is probably the most likely choice and I noted that our Philosophy "Master" Eric Meece has also labelled him as such.

Socrates - 6w5 ENTP - INTP or ENTP. I think it could go either way.

Aristotle - 5w6 INTP - Here is another one with whom I never felt exactly on the same wavelength. His Golden Mean is too moderate and too pragmatic for an INTP, in my opinion. I can much more easily see ENTP here, reinforced by his vast range of interests as opposed to the INTP's limited list of preferred areas of concentration.

St. Thomas Aquinas - 5w6 INTP - I am torn on Aquinas but I can easily see INTP. Would Mr. Saari agree?

Rene Descartes - 5w6 INTP - I more easily see Descartes as an INTJ.

David Hume - 6w5 INTP - I don't know but I do not think that Hume was an INTP. I see him more as an S. I will not try to pin him down any further than that.

Immanuel Kant - 5w6 INTP - Kant, according to Eric Meece, is the archetypal INTP (as Plato is the archetypal INTJ in his opinion) and I have to agree.

Rousseau - 9w1 INFP - Either INTP or INFP. I actually favor INTP but it may be INFP.

G.W.F. Hegel - 5w6 INTJ - INTJ or ENTJ?

Friedrich Nietzsche - 5w4 INTP - I definitely do not see INTP. Either INFP or INTJ (both use Te and Fi in opposite order). His writing seems more INFP but his attitude seems more INTJ. Perhaps if he were an E, it would help bridge the gap? ENFP or ENTJ? I will just stick with xNFP or xNTJ.

Jean-Paul Sartre - 5w4 INTP - I don't see that. Either SFP or NFP.



Any other opinions? Maybe Vince will help us out with those Enneagram assignments.

Plato: Definitely an INxJ IMO, hard to tell if he was T or F.

Socrates: INTP

Aristotle: definitely INTP IMO

Kant: I've seen him usually typed as an INTJ

Sartre: also seen him typed as an INTJ.

Originally Posted by Odin

#1 Ockamian
#2 Aristotelian
#3 Baconian
#4 Kantian
#5 Stoic/Aurelian
#6 Thomist
\#7 Humean
#8 Platonic/Socratic
#9 Randian
#10 Epicurean
#11 Lockean
#12 Newtonian
#13 Augustinian

My top 5.

#1Baconian#2Aristotelian#3Kantian#4Lockean#5Newtonian

I hope it isn't bad form (or illegal) to post links to different forums, but if anyone really enjoys speculating about the MBTI types of famous/historical/etc people, MBTI Central (where I am one of the mods) has a pretty healthy sub-forum for that purpose. The more, the merrier. Link: http://www.mbticentral.com/forums/popular-culture-type/

If this post violates any rules (written or otherwise) please let me know and I will remove it.