Originally Posted by Kanteai

LOL, not that it really matters but here is what it says about INFJ's

http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFJ.html

i was just saying that i found it interesting that these personality types seem to come together here in great droves. As i Said in anouther thread like moths to a flame.

From what I can gather, ENFPs and INFJs & INTJs all get along swimmingly when we talk about "big ideas". Infact INFJ and INTJ commonly find relationships with ENFPs--however don't expect the bills to get paid... (if you want that quality look to someone with xSTx).

To quote someone else:

Originally Posted by Best match for ENFP?

INTJ!

We appreciate you in full, and we keep you structured in a good way (i.e. we help you to make good, rational, long-term decisions). It's the ideal connection.

The hard part is for the two to meet, because INTJs and ENFPs pretty much never pick the same educational majors or career paths, and well, INTJs are introverts. It's not hard for an INTJ to find one of you - ENFPs get around, and you light up the place wherever you go :-) - but finding an INTJ might be problematic.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

From what I can gather, ENFPs and INFJs & INTJs all get along swimmingly when we talk about "big ideas". Infact INFJ and INTJ commonly find relationships with ENFPs--however don't expect the bills to get paid... (if you want that quality look to someone with xSTx).

To quote someone else:

~Chas'88

This seems to be the case among my peers outside the forum as well. I would also add ENFJ who just happen to be my 2 best friends.

Originally Posted by ENFPs as parents

ENFPs take their parenting role very seriously, but are also very playful. There's a bit of grown-up kid in every ENFP, so they get a lot of fun and enjoyment from playing with their children. However, they consider it essential to pass their strongly-held values and beliefs down to their children, and will strive consistently to create a positive, ideal environment for their children's growth.
The ENFP may exhibit an inconsistency in their roles with their children. At one moment, they might be their child's best friend, laughing and whooping it up, and in the next moment they may appear the stern authoritarian. This inconsistency seems to be a result of a conflict between the ENFP's genuine desire to relate to their children on the children's level, and their compulsion to follow their deeply-felt value system. In other words, the ENFP wants to be their child's friend, but if a value is violated, they will revert to the parental role to make sure their children understand the violation. This inconsistency may be confusing and frustrating for the children.
The children of ENFPs generally feel loved, because the ENFP gives their children plenty of genuine warmth and support. They usually value their children as individuals, allowing them room for growth. The ENFP's enthusiasm and affection may at times seem smothering to their children. This will be especially true for children with strong Thinking or Sensing preferences, who will have a difficult time understanding the effervescence of the ENFP, and will feel at times embarassed by the ENFP's enthusiasm and tendency to display their affection publicly.
The ENFP is able to take care of day-to-day necessities, such as picking children up at the correct times, getting them to softball practice, getting them fed, etc. However, it is a chore for the ENFP and is not a natural strength. The ENFP also has a difficult time disciplining their children, unless a very strongly-held value has been violated. The rich imagination and creativity of the ENFP parent creates a fun, dynamic and exciting environment for kids. The ENFP's strong value system turns experiences into meaningful lessons for their children. The ENFP parent is valued by their children for their warm, affirming natures, and their fun-loving approach to living.

Shit. I hate this type of parent--because I think they look the most ridiculous. Maybe since I'm aware of it, I'll be able to curb some of the worst tendencies and stop myself...

That's probably just wishful thinking...

~Chas'88

Circle Game: might be of more interest on this thread.

The discussion on the Thread: Two types of left-right and the saeculum, reminded me of my thoughts about coordinating archetypes, categories and experiences. Though empirical verification or historical support is important, these ideas about cycles and repeating categories in history can also be validated to an extent by comparing them to other semi-related categories of experience. It becomes a map of experience, the mind, and society, and some say such maps can be invaluable. But they often contradict. I post this because it's an excuse to post it somewhere. It might find its way onto my website (soon to be philosopherswheel.com, my new domain). I'm sure lots of people here won't read it anyway.

As the authors did, I compare the turnings and generational categories to the ancient alchemical elements fire, earth, air and water, which are also the modern states of "matter"-- energy, solid, gas and liquid respectively. They are physical but also primarily psychological in their meaning. But there are three ways to arrange them. Fire can be opposite water, earth or air. It turns out these different arrangements have different uses and purposes. The correlations between the categories are only general, and do not indicate empirically-verifiable claims that most prophets, nomads, etc, fit these categories. They fit by analogy or general experience, intuitively.

ORDER 1. We are familiar with the political circle. For some reason, the fire opposite water arrangement fits the political circle, as near as I can tell. This order is used by many esoteric and symbolic practitioners because "fire opposite water" fits the yang-yin symbolism of Sun opposite Moon, and because of the (probably invalid) weather categories discussed by Aristotle (and the T4T authors). J-yang indicates statist, and P-yin permissive or libertarian. This political circle coincides with the one used by the Libertarian Party.

But I'm not using an actual circle right now. Maybe later if there's interest.

Starting with the lower left, and going around:

position ideology element generation philosophy MBTI religious direction/Aristotle's season
lower left economic liberal air civic rationalist/materialist T-J Temple East/moist-hot=Spring/1T
lower right cultural conservative fire prophet essentialist/spiritualist N-J Temple South/dry-hot=Summer/2T
upper right economic conservative earth nomad empiricist/materialist S-P Temple West/dry-cold=Autumn/3T
upper left cultural liberal water artist existentialist/spiritualist F-P Temple North/moist-cold=Winter/4T

ORDER 2: Upending one side of the circle (switching the first two lines, for example) gives the Philosophers Wheel order, with Fire opposite Earth, and Air opposite Water. Here hot is the same thing as fire and is opposite to cold (earth), water is wet and opposite to dry (air). It clearly represents the spirit/matter polarity, and the yin/yang polarity.
This order is used by wiccans and Western occultists. It is basically a landscape of the mind, rather than a cycle. Politically, cultural equates generally to spiritualist or sacred concerns, and economic to materialist or secular concerns. J-yang indicates statist, and P-yin permissive or libertarian. Seasons match the weather, but not turnings. This order is referred to in Ezekiel's vision of God (here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ET7WXK4D_g )

position polarity ideology element sign generation philosophy alchemy season
up left (yang/J) cultural cons. fire(hot) Leo(Lion) prophet essentialist/N spiritualist/volatile Summer
down left (yang/J) econ.liberal air(dry) Aquarius(Man)civic rationalist/T materialist/stable Autumn
down right (yin/P) econ.cons. earth(cold) Taurus(Bull) nomad empiricist/S materialist/stable Winter
up right (yin/P) cultural lib. water(wet) Scorpio(Eagle)artist existentialist/F spiritualist/volatile Spring

ORDER 3 pits fire opposite air, and earth opposite water. This is the way elements are arranged in the signs of the zodiac, and represents the seasons. It follows the astrological order of elements: fire, earth, air, water. It is a model of cyclic process, because yin and yang alternate, instead of being placed on one side. That is what happens in a cycle. In generations theory, this is called dominant and recessive generations alternating. Prophets are equated with cultural liberal instead of conservative, perhaps indicating the inherent division within this generation. The order of the houses of the horoscope (hours of the day) seems to represent the turnings and seasons better than the actual order of the signs, however. This order is referred to in the vision of God in Revelation 4:7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjAmZjqmkEQ, and is represented on the World card of tarot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_%28Tarot_card%29

season=turning house ideology gen.in youth element sign/creature philosophy MBTI direction
Summer = 2T 4th/midnite cultural lib. prophet fire Leo(Lion) essentialist/spiritualist N-P South(season)North(house)
Autumn = 3T 1st/sunrise econ. cons. nomad earth Taurus(Bull) empiricist/materialist S-P West(season)East(house)
Winter = 4T 10th/noon econ. lib. civic air Aquarius(Man) rationalist/materialist T-J North(season)South(house)
Spring = 1T 7th/sunset cultural cons. artist water Scorpio(Eagle) existentialist/spiritualist F-J East(season)West(house)

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Maybe it might be a good time to re-evalute where we are personally and generationally i/r/t to MBTI.

A basic MBTI Personality Type Test.

Personality Type: INTJ
Birth Year: 1967

Prince

I always come up as INFJ and am starting to understand and agree with the info here: http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/s...p-Myers-Briggs

Type: INTJ
Birth year: 1992

Sounds like me-
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes3.asp
http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ.html


Strength: Introverted: 72%, Intuitive: 38%, Thinking: 12%, Judging: 1%

Another INTJ (reformed) here. Weird there are so many. Now would some kind soul tell me why I can't get line breaks and what I need to do to make that happen. Driving me nuts.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Here's a website to tell if you're "really" an INTJ.
http://intjcentral.com/manual1

All INTJs need to check this out: It's amazing IMO.

PoC67

I dunno... maybe it's because I'm borderline ISTJ, and not an extreme I or T... lots of stuff in the "Overview" and "Conversing with..." sections doesn't quite apply to me, or at least not all the time.

However, under Frequently Asked Questions I did score 14 out of 16 in the pet peeve department... missing only "We dislike surprises" (love 'em) and "We hate small talk..." (hey, deep conversations have to start somewhere). On pushy salespeople, one reason I like BMW is that their salespeople let the cars sell themselves instead of daring to tell us what we want. In fact, they don't even call themselves salespeople, but "Purchasing Consultants" or something like that.

So I took the MBTI test twice and came up with the same result-ISTJ. Actually pretty strong I-90%, and at least 65-70% on the S,T, and J.

Strangely enough I do relate well with the INTJ.

Even though I'm not an INTJ, I find I share many of the pet peeves on the list I'd say half the time all 16 are pet peeves.

Type: INTP
Birth Year: 1964

Xer INTP = "I have feelings, really I do! They are in here, I know I put them somewhere ..."

Originally Posted by Aramea

Type: INTP
Birth Year: 1964

Xer INTP = "I have feelings, really I do! They are in here, I know I put them somewhere ..."

OK, that make me laugh!

Originally Posted by Aramea

Type: INTP
Birth Year: 1964

Xer INTP = "I have feelings, really I do! They are in here, I know I put them somewhere ..."

I'm an ENFP so all I am is feelings. lol

Lots more discussion of MBTI and the Enneagram at http://personalitycafe.com/

Also generations, but they need our input I think!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Lots more discussion of MBTI and the Enneagram at http://personalitycafe.com/

Also generations, but they need our input I think!

The Winnie the Pooh thread was kind of fun. Too bad I can't make it work generationally (unless the Boomers are Tigger, the Xers are Rabbit and the Millennials are Pooh).

Originally Posted by JDW

The Winnie the Pooh thread was kind of fun. Too bad I can't make it work generationally (unless the Boomers are Tigger, the Xers are Rabbit and the Millennials are Pooh).

So who's Eeyore?

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

So who's Eeyore?

Eeyore has always marked me as a Contemptible/Lost, especially in the original books. And I'd say that the original 1920s British generations would apply for Pooh.

Christopher Robin - Victory (GI) - based on Milne's own 1920 cohort son

Owl - Ecumenical (Missionary) - he always struck me as one of the oldest characters

Eeyore - Contemptible (Lost) - his dead pan sarcasm is a dead give away (Disney, disneyfied it into melancholia)
Rabbit - Contemptible (Lost) - the whole preferring to live alone and being finicky about his garden & trespassers thing is looking forward to that whole "Get off my lawn" phase of a Nomad's life
Tiger - Contemptible (Lost) - the typical Nomad bachelor in an Unraveling... care and fancy free...
Kanga - Contemptible (Lost) - the typical Nomad mother who's overprotective & slightly smothering

Piglet - Victory (GI) - he always struck me as kinda young
Pooh - Victory (GI) - struck me as on the older side of the Victory Generation

Roo - Air Raid (Silent) - he always struck me as THAT young

Gopher was an American addition that Disney added to try and provide a character that Americans could understand & sympathize with (he has the American always working behavior & lack of consideration for other people's property going on... as well as speaks with that whistling "s" that Americans sometimes speak with)

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

So who's Eeyore?

Adult Millie is acting the part pretty well right now. Silents are Christopher Robin (the last name might have a good dual meaning too).

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Lots more discussion of MBTI and the Enneagram at http://personalitycafe.com/

Also generations, but they need our input I think!

Pizal and I have been on there for some time. Look up Pizal81 and rwt81 (for me). Pizal's been working hard at getting them interested in the theory.

(I go there and cheat on this 4T site when things get annoyingly political).

My Profile:
http://personalitycafe.com/members/rwt81.html

Originally Posted by TeddyR

Adult Millie is acting the part pretty well right now. Silents are Christopher Robin (the last name might have a good dual meaning too).

He's simply named for Milne's son:

Christopher Robin Milne (b. 1920)

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

He's simply named for Milne's son:

Christopher Robin Milne (b. 1920)

~Chas'88

Silent Robin dual meaning was more like the a$$holes on this AARP commercial.

Yes James. that is a good test (link below). This thread usually includes the enneagram, so I respond here.

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php

My results. It gells with my past results very well.

I do tend to answer a lot of these questions with "partly."

Type 5 - 9.7
Type 4 - 8.3
Type 3 - 7
Type 9 - 5.3
Type 8 - 5
Type 2 - 4.7
Type 6 - 3.3

Wing 5w4 - 13.9
Wing 4w5 - 13.2
Wing 4w3 - 11.8
Wing 5w6 - 11.4
Wing 3w4 - 11.2
Wing 3w2 - 9.4
Wing 2w3 - 8.2
Wing 6w5 - 8.2
Wing 9w8 - 7.8
Wing 8w9 - 7.7
Wing 9w1 - 6.3
Wing 8w7 - 6
Wing 2w1 - 5.7
Wing 6w7 - 4.3

When I took the MBTI test a little while back I came out as a INTJ. For as long as I have been taking these tests I was a ISTJ.

I dunno what happened in that time between tests which changed enough to go from ISTJ to INTJ

Originally Posted by Tristan

When I took the MBTI test a little while back I came out as a INTJ. For as long as I have been taking these tests I was a ISTJ.

I dunno what happened in that time between tests which changed enough to go from ISTJ to INTJ

I want to note that MBTI is actually a bastardization of Jung's actual ideas, if one goes by Jung's original descriptions I am "Introverted Sensation with Thinking", ISTJ. Jung makes quite clear in his writings that one cannot have an Empirical attitude and be an N, and he typed himself as an ISTP.

It's funny, going by MBTI I'm an INFJ, going by Jung himself I'm an ISTJ. The difference probably has to do with what Jung called the Persona, one's image to the world. Most people, including introverts, identify with their persona, something totally left out in MBTI, and so the MBTI type is "contaminated" by the persona.

Originally Posted by Tristan

When I took the MBTI test a little while back I came out as a INTJ. For as long as I have been taking these tests I was a ISTJ.

I dunno what happened in that time between tests which changed enough to go from ISTJ to INTJ

Hanging around forums like this one! Definitely N oriented.

Originally Posted by Tristan

When I took the MBTI test a little while back I came out as a INTJ. For as long as I have been taking these tests I was a ISTJ.I dunno what happened in that time between tests which changed enough to go from ISTJ to INTJ

Probably nothing substantial...just means you're on the cusp between S and N. I'm the same way...i've taken MBTI many times and usually test as INTJ, but sometimes ISTJ.