On 2002-03-29 11:26, Terminator X wrote:
But what about immigration? Obviously the birthrate went up dramatically say between 1880 and 1920.As immigrants, who are known to have larger families, filled up the American cities. The same Ims ure happened in the 1840s. You know how the Irish are :wink:
Also what about trends in general? Up until the Baby Boom it was normal for women to bear up to 6, 7, 8 children!
That is something that hasnt been turned around since. What are we down to now, 2.5?
I am sure alot also has to do with the kind of employment available to Americans now.
Our manufacturing base has been relocated to the Third World.
Alot has changed in forty years, and it hasnt entirely been linked to birthrate, or generational shift.
When I think of Boomers, I think of a narcissistic, highly opinionated group that in some way were children of a post war, pre-Awakening America.

Birth-rate statistics include only those born in the United States - but that's not to say immigration didn't have an important effect, particularly in shaping the Lost Generation's overall persona (and the Gilded before them).

But casting birth rates aside, if you were still in school on April 30, 1975, and came home to find all the regular TV programming pre-empted so they could show U.S. Marine helicopters frantically taking off from the American embassy compound in Saigon just as the victorious Viet Cong were storming the gates below, then the chances are very good that you are not a Boomer - because that incident drove home the central lesson of history that every member of a Nomad generation learns: The damage that inner passion can inflict upon the outer world.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Anthony '58 on 2002-03-30 00:29 ]</font>

What are the chances of those coming home on 30 April 1975, in that they were '57-born HS juniors, of being Boomers?

I think he meant coming home from school, and watching the network news, Mr. Loyd.

That notwithstanding, Mr. Anthony is still full of crap, on this "baby-busters" thing. I recall him suggesting that going to daylight-savings time, in 1974, was a generational boundary line too.

Just plain silly. But loads of fun, I guess. :smile:



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-03-30 09:06 ]</font>

On 2002-03-29 20:11, Terminator X wrote:
Well, in the 80s and for most of the 90s we were just too cool for anything afro, but if you got curly hair, grow it out!
I mean its less expensive and looks cooler.

My sister is letting my three-year-old nephew's hair grow out. It's not too long, but it already seems like a big hassle. Crap gets caught in it all the time, and she's got to be constantly picking out white cat hair or lint or grass clippings when he goes outside. I can appreciate why some people would want to keep it short -- it's certainly lower maintenance.

Yeah, that whole low maintenance thing might be cool, but you might also have to wear a hat more frequently!
I dont understand people that just shear it all off. Why go bald if youre not bald?

I just had the relatives over. I cant really tell the line in the Xer/Mill thing. Where I am on this chart (1979) is kind of a mega grey area. My cousin who was born in 1974, her first 45 was Blondie, and her first album was Men at Work. My first record was "Ghostbusters" and my first album was "Born in the USA." So yeah, Im pretty lame. I did dig up some pictures of me as a tot and my dad dressed like John Travolta.
I saw ET last night, it really brought the memories back of what being a kid was like when I was real little.
I will tell you that my cousins that were born after 1984 are in a different generation, period. They dont socialize with the pre 1980 crowd at all.

On 2002-03-31 17:18, Terminator X wrote:
I just had the relatives over. I cant really tell the line in the Xer/Mill thing. Where I am on this chart (1979) is kind of a mega grey area. My cousin who was born in 1974, her first 45 was Blondie, and her first album was Men at Work. My first record was "Ghostbusters" and my first album was "Born in the USA." So yeah, Im pretty lame. I did dig up some pictures of me as a tot and my dad dressed like John Travolta.
I saw ET last night, it really brought the memories back of what being a kid was like when I was real little.
I will tell you that my cousins that were born after 1984 are in a different generation, period. They dont socialize with the pre 1980 crowd at all.

Hey X.
I don't know if you remember the discussion ( I think it was on the MillenialXer thread I created ) about the subgen from 1976 to 1984. This is most commonly called Gen Y. Most people in this age range agree that they are neither truly Xer nor truly Millenial. They are somewhere in the middle, more conformist than previous Xers coming before but also more individualized than Millenials that follow.

Jay,
This will make you barf, but most of the kids I know that were born in 1980 and 1981 barely remember the 80s at all. They had this dreaded toy called Teddy Ruxpin.
I think 1979 might be the last year, because my Teddy Ruxpin was a guy known as B A Baracus. as a kid we used to go draw pictures of Teddy getting his head cut off in chalk in front of little kid's houses.
Talk about angry young males huh?
Even 1979 is wishy washy. I dont think were conformists at all though, the 79 cohorts. Even if were not as angsty I can generalize that we don't join anything, and are very anti-group oriented. These are my observations. We are often moody too. Maybe that is just my friends. The kids born after 1980 seem very generic, they look similar, dress similar, they arent about "being different."

So yes, I would posit that 1978-1979 is the very very last of Gen X.
I read something that put the generations out like.
1942-45 (silent to Boom transition)
1946-1959 (core Boomers)
1960-1963 (Boom to X transition *could explain how Rosie O'Donnell and Jon stewart were born in the same year*)
1964-1979 (core Xers)
1980-1983 (X to Mill transition)
and so on.
For those of you interested, there are several rock groups out there that contain last wave Xers in them.
If you come across the strokes or Phantom Planet (all born about 1978-80) then you can judge if they might be similar to Frankie Muniz, Mandy Moore, or Hanson...
or to older groups.
Oddly enough, the American Pie movies star actors and actresses born between 1973 and 1980. This might give you a good glimpse at who really makes up the Nintendo wave.

Something occurred to me.
The latest cohorts of a generation have the "shell" of the next generation, but the "core" of their own.

For example, extremely late-wave Boomers (1957-1960) can act on the surface very much like Xers. They may look and dress like Xers, and speak like Xers, but if you scratch the surface, they are closet idealists. They may come off as cynical, but underneath of that, they have high hopes that maybe the world really can change. Of course, they are less likely than earlier Boomers to actually get involved in trying to change things. But the hope is still there.

I found this out about myself. It was a gradual process that began when I discovered this board. While I often come across to people as Xer-like (and look young for my age so people really *are* surprised to find out I'm a Boomer) and get along well with Xers, people who know me well know that I am a romantic and an idealist, and not very pragmatic at all! (I am not judgemental, but not all Boomers are.) But by posting here and reading other's posts, I have learned to "own" my true Prophet nature, and not always try to hide it under a Nomadic veneer. A lot of Jonesers had to kind of "become Xers" just to get by, but never felt entirely comfortable with this tough and cynical persona.

Very late Xers, especially females, also often have a Millennail "shell" but are really Xers at heart. For example, when I first met my friend Nicole, who was born in 1980, she seemed very sweet, polite and willing to please. She has a very quiet and almost innocent demeanor that is incredibly disarming. I was astonished when I was talking to her one day and she made some cynical remarks and the F word several times. She admitted to me that that's the way she really is, and how funny it is that people always think she is so sweet and innocent when she is really pretty hardboiled and jaded.

There are many gray areas with generations. I have a hunch geography and upbringing has something to do with it too, and this goes for all generations. For example, the stereotype for Baby Boomers is that were all "flower power" people who wanted peace and who wanted Civil Rights legislation passed. But if you were a Baby Boomer growing up in say, Alabama or Mississippi, you were most likely anything but. (I read a lot on Civil Rights issues, and from what I suspect, the majority of southern Boomers were probably pro-segregation during the sixties and into the seventies. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a number of early Xers in that part of the country who had similar views as kids, as there were many 60s and 70s prejudices...fortunately, most of those people changed their views quickly).

There are definitely many '77 and '78 people who are true Millies, but I think that these are probably kids who grew up in upper middle class suburbs, and who knew affluence all their lives (this may explain the marketers who call '77 Generation Y, since they tend to focus on wealthier areas). And I know this first hand...when I when I went to school, my 78 friends from Long Island or Westchester County, NY, which are rather affluent areas, showed more signs of being in Generation Y/Millies than those who came from Niagara Falls, Albany, upstate NY, etc...not as affluent backgrounds. The latter tended to be rather cynical and who were slackers to the bone.

These are all definitions by Strauss and Howe standards. Just wanted to clarify that.

I don't have the numbers, but how did Reagan do among Boomers in 1980? I know he won in a landslide... If he wooed the Boomers, then I wonder if the end of the Awakening should really be 1980, which means that the Millies should be pushed back to (gasp) 1977, as there is usually a three-year gap between the end of an era and a generational boundary?

I noticed a change around 1985.

This conversation is finished.

God is a goddamn idiot.
God is a goddamn idiot.

On 2002-04-09 16:06, Sbarro wrote:
God is a goddamn idiot.
God is a goddamn idiot.

And you are Pizza the Troll. :razz:

Time to scrounge up the generational boundaries for the previous saeculum according to the "Material Cause" scheme from the old forums and get this topic back on track!
_________________
"Dans cette epoque cybernetique
Pleine de gents informatique."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vince Lamb '59 on 2002-04-10 04:59 ]</font>

A "cute" site ( http://www.california.com/~eameece/generations.htm ) that relates the generational theory to astrology and how S & H's work is widely utilized in that community. The person who writes this really goes wild with naming generations...he/she calls boomers Gen-W, silents Gen-V, GI's Gen-U, Losts Gen-T, New Silents Gen-Z and New Prophets (what else?) Gen-A, and then subdivides the gens into different waves. Interesting descriptions of the people in these so-called "gens"...

By the way, in actuality, Generation Y/Millie is the real Generation X from S & H's theory since they're the 24th "Anglo-American" generation and the 24th letter is "X" (I know, I know...you're probably falling asleep :smile: )

Anyone knows if many people are really going to call the New Silents "Generation Z"? By most standards, they're already in school, so someone has probably studied them and labeled them already...

On 2002-04-13 19:10, Mark Y wrote:
A "cute" site ( http://www.california.com/~eameece/generations.htm ) that relates the generational theory to astrology and how S & H's work is widely utilized in that community. The person who writes this really goes wild with naming generations...he/she calls boomers Gen-W, silents Gen-V, GI's Gen-U, Losts Gen-T, New Silents Gen-Z and New Prophets (what else?) Gen-A, and then subdivides the gens into different waves. Interesting descriptions of the people in these so-called "gens"...

By the way, in actuality, Generation Y/Millie is the real Generation X from S & H's theory since they're the 24th "Anglo-American" generation and the 24th letter is "X" (I know, I know...you're probably falling asleep :smile: )

I think he (Eric Meece) is a pretty frequent poster here! I actually like his classification of 84 cohorts (looking at a full astrological chart, I AM truly borderline by his standard when looking at vertical profile, etc...)

The new adaptives started getting born in 1999 at earliest, 2001 at latest.
I just know.

On 2002-04-13 23:05, Terminator X wrote:
The new adaptives started getting born in 1999 at earliest, 2001 at latest.
I just know.

You know any people born in those years or are you sensing the brink of a crisis mood?

Alot of my childhood friends had kids in 2001.
I almost did too, as did several of my friends. It was a big year. i just have a feeling. I know 1986 cohorts and i know Im not in the same Gen with them, and I like these new kids a whole ot better.
They are the begining of the new gen.

On 2002-04-13 23:40, Terminator X wrote:
Alot of my childhood friends had kids in 2001.
I almost did too, as did several of my friends. It was a big year. i just have a feeling. I know 1986 cohorts and i know Im not in the same Gen with them, and I like these new kids a whole ot better.
They are the begining of the new gen.

That seems to make sense (at least for your area); i'd like to see if it turns out being slightly different for the rest of the country

On 2002-04-13 23:05, Terminator X wrote:
The new adaptives started getting born in 1999 at earliest, 2001 at latest.
I just know.

I agree with those dates, Justin. My little niece Morgan was born in October 1999 and could go either way. On one hand, she seems to very much have the angelic "sweet innocent" disposition that S&H predicted for the New Silents. OTOH, she has the sort of heroic "get-the-job-done" spunk typical of later-wave Millies.

It is obvious to me is that she is right on the Millie/New Silent cusp, however i cannot tell where the boundary will fall (i.e. where 50% or more of kids born will display Artist/Adaptive attributes) based on her personality alone. My gut feeling is that Morgan's '99 cohort will come down on the Millie side in the end, but just barely, and the New Silents will begin in '00.