On 2002-05-03 18:45, Miss Anthrope wrote:
Jesse--RFLMAO! :lol:
You think I'm Justin?
:lol:

Maybe Justin trying better to disguise himself this time.... But who else would remark that he and the other "Xers" sneer at the 2000 and 2001 students on his (her?) college campus? And with all these new names from approximately the same birthyear...hey, who knows? Even GOD says he was born in 1979 (just like Justin). And even the first Frank Black note I ever saw was one that said we're in a 3T because they even made a coffee table book about 911...just like Justin said.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jesse Manoogian on 2002-05-03 19:31 ]</font>

On 2002-05-01 06:23, God wrote:
I think you are Justin'79.

What sounds Justin'79-ish that I say? Your use of spaceless paragraphs and chat about your '84 cousins, with your "'79 is definitely Gen X, '81 is kind of mixed, '82 is NEVER Gen X and is the complete opposite of Gen X!" attitude, makes YOU sound pretty Justin'79-ish, though. But then there was that "This conversation is finished" bit two months ago, and that really didn't sound Justin'79-ish. So I'm not 100% sure.

My 1984 cousins dont have anything to say in front of me. They are too busy playing videogames.

Then you have no way to know that they really believe in the will-do-what-authority-tells-me-to-attitudes inside. And playing video games and listening to RATM all day? Geeeee, that sure sounds like authority-obeying attitudes, in action.

Even today, bands like Coldplay, Travis, The Strokes, White Stripes---all late wave Xers---all coopted into the greater Gen X music scene.

Did I mention how much Justin '79 loves the Strokes?

[quote]
On 2002-05-03 20:24, Jesse Manoogian wrote:

My 1984 cousins dont have anything to say in front of me. They are too busy playing videogames.

Then you have no way to know that they really believe in the will-do-what-authority-tells-me-to-attitudes inside. And playing video games and listening to RATM all day? Geeeee, that sure sounds like authority-obeying attitudes, in action.

Jesse, I'm with you on that one; I'd say that that's further evidence that 81-84 "children of the early nineties (a period that encompasses both of us) are almost generationally neutral!

Why don't you get a life.
Your "aha's" aren't going anywhere.

You are so clueless.
You think how you dress and what music you listen to means everything.

On 2002-05-04 19:06, God wrote:
You are so clueless.
You think how you dress and what music you listen to means everything.

What exactly means everything then? I have no idea (and suspect it's a composite of A LOT of things...)

Take a look.
Look at Justine Bateman long and hard.
Think..are we in the same gen?
Am i in the same gen as someone born in 1966 or 1986?
Think about it.
It will make sense historically and culturally.

On 2002-05-04 19:39, God wrote:
Take a look.
Look at Justine Bateman long and hard.
Think..are we in the same gen?
Am i in the same gen as someone born in 1966 or 1986?
Think about it.
It will make sense historically and culturally.

I don't know a lot of people born in either of those years (the 86 cohort I know the best is the cohort of my younger brother and his friends) but I'd say you're in the same generation as the 66ers as opposed to the 86ers... I'm pretty sure that Gen X runs strong up to 79. OTOH, the placement of the early and mid 80s has not been determined (the very fact that you had internet access as early as 1992 means that your neighborhood is likely atypical!)... even my own placement has not been determined! ("bona fide Millie" vs. "more the Nomad type" belonging to a cohort that is "roughly half-Nomad and half-Hero" and all this in the last ten days...) However, I just cannot stomach being in the same generation as someone born in 1998 or even 1989 for historical, cultural, etc reasons; although I think that if there are late 80s wave posters at some point (Beavers's current students?) it might elucidate what I mean...

And I would totally agree with you about 1986 except for the fact that my brother's cohort is a 1986 cohort and I see them as closer to my own wave (but on the edges) than to 89ers

god (i will NOT use a capital G)--You think anyone who isn't an X'er is a clueless dork. But guess what--YOU are the clueless one. This might be my first post but I have been watching you for a long time and think you're a miserable spoiled rich kid with too much time on your hands. All you ever do is whine and whine some more. It hurts my virtual ears already. You give X'ers the bad reputation as whining do-nothings we already have and don't need more of. You're like a stereotype, no a CARTOON of a whinging slacker. You're like an annoying insect. That's not because of you being an X'er. It has to do with you being mentally disturbed or something. Get a life, O Almighty One. (LOL) Take an Ex-Lax or something to get rid of the crap inside your head. You're not doing any X'er here (or anyone else) a favor.

You're not stupid, "god." Sometimes you actually say intelligent things and you're honest. So quit whinging about how bad you're treated and how you don't identify with people a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever, and get a damn life. Maybe then you can contribute something worthwhile instead of making everyone feel sorry for you.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: IntestOPurge on 2002-05-04 20:07 ]</font>

On 2002-05-04 20:05, IntestOPurge wrote:
god (i will NOT use a capital G)--You think anyone who isn't an X'er is a clueless dork. But guess what--YOU are the clueless one. This might be my first post but I have been watching you for a long time and think you're a miserable spoiled rich kid with too much time on your hands. All you ever do is whine and whine some more. It hurts my virtual ears already. You give X'ers the bad reputation as whining do-nothings we already have and don't need more of. You're like a stereotype, no a CARTOON of a whinging slacker. You're like an annoying insect. That's not because of you being an X'er. It has to do with you being mentally disturbed or something. Get a life, O Almighty One. (LOL) Take an Ex-Lax or something to get rid of the crap inside your head. You're not doing any X'er here (or anyone else) a favor.

You're not stupid, "god." Sometimes you actually say intelligent things and you're honest. So quit whinging about how bad you're treated and how you don't identify with people a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever, and get a damn life. Maybe then you can contribute something worthwhile instead of making everyone feel sorry for you.

Whinging? Mr. Saari, would this be you posting out in the cold by any chance?

Nah, I can't see Mr. Saari getting this bent out of shape over Justin. No way. There are only a select few here who have incorporated "whinging" into their lexicons so the choices are indeed limited. Perhaps Jesse Manoogian can solve this mystery as well.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Stonewall Patton on 2002-05-04 21:29 ]</font>

This is where it all ends.

On 2002-05-04 20:05, IntestOPurge wrote:
god (i will NOT use a capital G)--You think anyone who isn't an X'er is a clueless dork. But guess what--YOU are the clueless one.

This is the moment of triumph, where the truth is set straight and the reality I cannot see is laid down for me.



This might be my first post but I have been watching you for a long time and think you're a miserable spoiled rich kid with too much time on your hands.

Anybody who posts on this forum has too much time on their hands. Think: We are taking a book and arguing to the teeth about minute points, cohorts, cusps, etc. Then some wackos are trying to line up Medieval saecula and economic cycles. That must take way more time than I have spent.
How you know I am a spoiled rich kid, I don't know. Maybe you know me in real life. Or maybe you have an e-axe to grind



All you ever do is whine and whine some more. It hurts my virtual ears already. You give X'ers the bad reputation as whining do-nothings we already have and don't need more of. You're like a stereotype, no a CARTOON of a whinging slacker. You're like an annoying insect.

I am very not stereotypical. I have a feeling you have problems that need to be exercized elsewhere.



That's not because of you being an X'er. It has to do with you being mentally disturbed or something. Get a life, O Almighty One. (LOL) Take an Ex-Lax or something to get rid of the crap inside your head. You're not doing any X'er here (or anyone else) a favor.

Theres nothing sadder than someone laughing at their own jokes. You know what I do have low self esteem. And being on this forum has only lessened it because of its patheticness in nature

You're not stupid, "god." Sometimes you actually say intelligent things and you're honest. So quit whinging about how bad you're treated and how you don't identify with people a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever, and get a damn life.

Someone must have been really mad to write this. Someone is alos trying to correlate past posts from several posters and pin them on me whoever that is. This is absurd. If you want to make an assertion, then I will assert myself. Personally I think that you are sounding rather JUDGEMENTAL.

Maybe then you can contribute something worthwhile instead of making everyone feel sorry for you.

What a Boomer thing to say. "make a contribution."
To what???
God's final words


EAT ME


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: IntestOPurge on 2002-05-04 20:07 ]</font>

Justin, stop getting your panties in a bunch over some loser with nothing but, as you put it, an axe to grind. Get over it.

He's editing his own posts with a different username.

Justin....I'll tell you what I tell my xer son and daughter: "Everything is gonna be alright."

Well, hell, it's a nice Sunday afternoon. Might as well have a little fun with some lighter stuff. Jesse where are you? We need you to dissect, analyze, and attribute this post. I will try to do it in your absence, just for kicks:

On 2002-05-04 20:05, IntestOPurge wrote:

god (i will NOT use a capital G)

OK, whoever wrote this is Christian or at least not an atheist.

You think anyone who isn't an X'er is a clueless dork.

Whoever wrote this is not an Xer.

But guess what--YOU are the clueless one.

Whoever wrote this has obviously been fuming about Justin for some time. This hatred surely did not spontaneously manifest last night.

This might be my first post but I have been watching you for a long time and think you're a miserable spoiled rich kid with too much time on your hands.

Whoever wrote this is a T4T regular.

All you ever do is whine and whine some more. It hurts my virtual ears already. You give X'ers the bad reputation as whining do-nothings we already have and don't need more of.

The poster already established that he is not an Xer just a few sentences ago. Yet here, a few sentences later, he has already forgotten what he just wrote and is trying to cast himself as an Xer. Either the poster has severe ADD or he was doing some serious drinking last night. My guess is the latter.

You're like a stereotype, no a CARTOON of a whinging slacker.

Mr. Saari's word "whinging." Only a select few here have incorporated this term into their lexicons.

You're like an annoying insect. That's not because of you being an X'er. It has to do with you being mentally disturbed or something. Get a life, O Almighty One. (LOL)

This is all questionable and unnecessary psycho-babble. The poster appears to be one given to personal attack. It is probable that, when posting here under his regular handle, he rarely ever challenges the points made by a poster with whom he disagrees. More than likely, he routinely resorts to personal attack.

Take an Ex-Lax or something to get rid of the crap inside your head. You're not doing any X'er here (or anyone else) a favor.

More of the same abuse and more of his silly and self-contradictory (and probably drunken) attempt to falsely cloak himself as an Xer.

You're not stupid, "god." Sometimes you actually say intelligent things and you're honest.

The poster is addressing Justin as an authority figure does a rebellious youth. Obviously, the poster is Justin's elder. This eliminates the possibility that he is a Millennial. The poster is either a Boomer or Silent.

So quit whinging about how bad you're treated and how you don't identify with people a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever, and get a damn life.

More alcohol-exacerbated abuse. I would hate to be this guy's wife.

Maybe then you can contribute something worthwhile instead of making everyone feel sorry for you.

And, as Justin noted, the poster speaks in terms of contribution. This eliminates Silent as a possibility. The poster is obviously a Boomer.

To summarize, the poster is:

1) a T4T regular.

2) a Boomer

3) definitely not an atheist and probably a Christian (although it is plainly impossible to "know" this from his "works" displayed here).

4) someone who more than likely resorts to personal attack, routinely, when he confronts a post (and poster) with which he disagrees. He is probably noted for rarely, if ever, challenging any of the actual points made. In other words, he is all bluster; sound and fury signifying nothing.

5) one of the few here who uses the term "whinging."

6) someone who has probably been known to drink heavily while posting to T4T.

7) someone who has been fuming about Justin for some time. Look for any poster who has shown unusual contempt for Justin recently.


Well, there was actually a whole lot of information about the poster contained within that one litte post. I'll leave it to Jesse or somebody else to consider the seven points above and winnow the field of suspects.

On 2002-05-05 12:28, Stonewall Patton wrote:
Well, hell, it's a nice Sunday afternoon. Might as well have a little fun with some lighter stuff. Jesse where are you? We need you to dissect, analyze, and attribute this post. I will try to do it in your absence, just for kicks:

On 2002-05-04 20:05, IntestOPurge wrote:

god (i will NOT use a capital G)

OK, whoever wrote this is Christian or at least not an atheist.

You think anyone who isn't an X'er is a clueless dork.

Whoever wrote this is not an Xer.

But guess what--YOU are the clueless one.

Whoever wrote this has obviously been fuming about Justin for some time. This hatred surely did not spontaneously manifest last night.

This might be my first post but I have been watching you for a long time and think you're a miserable spoiled rich kid with too much time on your hands.

Whoever wrote this is a T4T regular.

All you ever do is whine and whine some more. It hurts my virtual ears already. You give X'ers the bad reputation as whining do-nothings we already have and don't need more of.

The poster already established that he is not an Xer just a few sentences ago. Yet here, a few sentences later, he has already forgotten what he just wrote and is trying to cast himself as an Xer. Either the poster has severe ADD or he was doing some serious drinking last night. My guess is the latter.

You're like a stereotype, no a CARTOON of a whinging slacker.

Mr. Saari's word "whinging." Only a select few here have incorporated this term into their lexicons.

You're like an annoying insect. That's not because of you being an X'er. It has to do with you being mentally disturbed or something. Get a life, O Almighty One. (LOL)

This is all questionable and unnecessary psycho-babble. The poster appears to be one given to personal attack. It is probable that, when posting here under his regular handle, he rarely ever challenges the points made by a poster with whom he disagrees. More than likely, he routinely resorts to personal attack.

Take an Ex-Lax or something to get rid of the crap inside your head. You're not doing any X'er here (or anyone else) a favor.

More of the same abuse and more of his silly and self-contradictory (and probably drunken) attempt to falsely cloak himself as an Xer.

You're not stupid, "god." Sometimes you actually say intelligent things and you're honest.

The poster is addressing Justin as an authority figure does a rebellious youth. Obviously, the poster is Justin's elder. This eliminates the possibility that he is a Millennial. The poster is either a Boomer or Silent.

So quit whinging about how bad you're treated and how you don't identify with people a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever, and get a damn life.

More alcohol-exacerbated abuse. I would hate to be this guy's wife.

Maybe then you can contribute something worthwhile instead of making everyone feel sorry for you.

And, as Justin noted, the poster speaks in terms of contribution. This eliminates Silent as a possibility. The poster is obviously a Boomer.

To summarize, the poster is:

1) a T4T regular.

2) a Boomer

3) definitely not an atheist and probably a Christian (although it is plainly impossible to "know" this from his "works" displayed here).

4) someone who more than likely resorts to personal attack, routinely, when he confronts a post (and poster) with which he disagrees. He is probably noted for rarely, if ever, challenging any of the actual points made. In other words, he is all bluster; sound and fury signifying nothing.

5) one of the few here who uses the term "whinging."

6) someone who has probably been known to drink heavily while posting to T4T.

7) someone who has been fuming about Justin for some time. Look for any poster who has shown unusual contempt for Justin recently.


Well, there was actually a whole lot of information about the poster contained within that one litte post. I'll leave it to Jesse or somebody else to consider the seven points above and winnow the field of suspects.

There is only one poster here who fits all your criteria, Stonewall, and that person wrote a post about a week or so ago trying to get Justin kicked off the board. I won't mention a name but I think we know who this person is, and it is a he. What his motives might be, I have no idea. Maybe his idea of sick entertainment.

Doing! It was that comment, "I'd hate to be this guy's wife......." Oh yeah.

Please...2)A Boomer MALE

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cbailey on 2002-05-05 13:51 ]</font>

On 2002-05-05 12:28, Stonewall Patton wrote:

To summarize, the poster is:

1) a T4T regular.

2) a Boomer

3) definitely not an atheist and probably a Christian (although it is plainly impossible to "know" this from his "works" displayed here).

4) someone who more than likely resorts to personal attack, routinely, when he confronts a post (and poster) with which he disagrees. He is probably noted for rarely, if ever, challenging any of the actual points made. In other words, he is all bluster; sound and fury signifying nothing.

5) one of the few here who uses the term "whinging."

6) someone who has probably been known to drink heavily while posting to T4T.

7) someone who has been fuming about Justin for some time. Look for any poster who has shown unusual contempt for Justin recently.


Well, there was actually a whole lot of information about the poster contained within that one litte post. I'll leave it to Jesse or somebody else to consider the seven points above and winnow the field of suspects.

#1 check, #2 check, #3 check, #5 check, #6 check (sort of I was probably on my fifth Gin & Tonic by this time) #4 no, #7 no


I was at the wedding of my nephew and about as far from T4T as I can get. It was an amazing collection of late Xers and early Millennials in Blue Zone Minnesota and a group that encapsuled Mr. C. S. Lewis' Four Loves in the event. There was the agape at his Roman Catholic Mass; the patros as 9-11, and Minnesota values were recalled, the philos of my nephews amazing set of friends from Engineering School and the Boy Scout Camp he has worked on vacations for over a decade and eros in the dancing that went on to late hours.

No a whinge on the plain; but good natured, pleasant, devout, friendly, horny American girls and boys seeing two of their own setting off amid the well wishes of the GI grand parents and Boomer Parents and relations.


There were so many overlappings of what G.K. Chesterton and De Tocqueville called "little battalions" that make live better than bearable by mediating the individual and the Authority above him in Church and the State. I was surprised by the joy of it all.


So I was otherwise employed when that Legion which is Justin was attacked (I had much earlier warned him to not reform when he was asked to do just that) and would not even if in my cups. HTH

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Virgil K. Saari on 2002-05-05 15:13 ]</font>

The petty ugliness we are seeing on this thread is unfortunate. It's also very 3T, which might be an indication we are still in one. I left Usenet because of all the flame warriors, trollers and other a$$holes that seemed to dominate those discussions. The 4T forum used to be a haven of civilized discourse and ideas. It's sad to see this happening here now too.

Also, Justin, I apologize if I seemed a little harsh before when I told you to "get over it." I wasn't irritated at you, but I hadn't had my coffee yet and I get snappish before I'm really awake. Nothing personal :smile:

_____________
Scars are tattoos with better stories.
--Toyota ad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-05-05 16:01 ]</font>

On 2002-05-05 14:04, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2002-05-05 12:28, Stonewall Patton wrote:

To summarize, the poster is:

1) a T4T regular.

2) a Boomer

3) definitely not an atheist and probably a Christian (although it is plainly impossible to "know" this from his "works" displayed here).

4) someone who more than likely resorts to personal attack, routinely, when he confronts a post (and poster) with which he disagrees. He is probably noted for rarely, if ever, challenging any of the actual points made. In other words, he is all bluster; sound and fury signifying nothing.

5) one of the few here who uses the term "whinging."

6) someone who has probably been known to drink heavily while posting to T4T.

7) someone who has been fuming about Justin for some time. Look for any poster who has shown unusual contempt for Justin recently.

1) check
2) NO
3) kind of (I'm Jewish)
4) NO
5) NO
6) NO
7) no (I have gotten into heated generational debates with the guy about the proper placement of the early and mid eighties but I always respected what he had to say and what he thought so I don't think I meet that criterion either):

1 1/2 out of 7 - a little more than XoE but not by much (btw, XoE, I'm pretty sure that you meet the first requirement - I consider you a regular on this forum!)

Interesting article I read from the Boston Globe back in September of '77. Believe it or not, Generation "Y"/Echo Boomers were recognized as early as then (they called it a "baby boomlet", with the article stating that the trend of declining birthrates has "reversed" and that parents are interested in having their "2.1 children". Explanations for the reduction in births until then actually did not include parents shunning children...it was more towards the boomers gaining more education and a focus on careers.

On 2002-05-05 12:28, Stonewall Patton wrote:


To summarize, the poster is:

1) a T4T regular.

Yes.

2) a Boomer

Yes (unless Anthony is reading this :grin

3) definitely not an atheist and probably a Christian (although it is plainly impossible to "know" this from his "works" displayed here).

Yes for the non-atheist part of that. I am non-religious though.

4) someone who more than likely resorts to personal attack, routinely, when he confronts a post (and poster) with which he disagrees. He is probably noted for rarely, if ever, challenging any of the actual points made. In other words, he is all bluster; sound and fury signifying nothing.

No.

5) one of the few here who uses the term "whinging."

No.

6) someone who has probably been known to drink heavily while posting to T4T.

No. I don't even drink.

7) someone who has been fuming about Justin for some time. Look for any poster who has shown unusual contempt for Justin recently.

No. I like Justin's posts.

_________________
Scars are tattoos with better stories.
--Toyota ad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Susan Brombacher on 2002-05-05 17:17 ]</font>

XoE,

How did I ever wind up in the same generation as that chick who fronted that band in "Satisfaction"?
Tywebb is clueless. I read some great reviews about Fight Club today.
Urging Generation X to grow up and some whining. I guess that movie was our own nihilistic fantasy taken to the extreme. I have to say in February 1999 I was feeling much less sunshiney than I was today.
I don't think 9-11 is going to do jack$hit for young America.
I don't know what the post 1981 crowd is thinking because for some reason God has decided that I will never live in a house with them, take classes with them, or see them in the context of anything other than family parties and restaurants.
I see a few of them have afros. Being born in the 1980s must suck, I'm glad they've tried to disown their origins.
As for Baby Boomers, they seem so out of focus. Well, Ben Franklin was a total non-mainstream weirdo, so I suspect we'll find a nice tree hugger from some commune outside of Spokane to be our Gray Champion. I could be down with that. America needs to shed its skin. Its just about time. No more war and oil and Bushit. I think another national crisis could really push us in the direction we will have to go for our nation to survive and not disintegrate in cynicism.
My 2 cents,
Ty.

On 2002-05-05 22:21, Ty Webb wrote:
I don't know what the post 1981 crowd is thinking because for some reason God has decided that I will never live in a house with them, take classes with them, or see them in the context of anything other than family parties and restaurants.

Or on the TFT forum... anyway most of us
81-84s (with the exception of the C2Kers from certain places; the range includes people like Jesse Manoogian at one end and Craig or me at the other) consider ourselves to be separate from both X and the Millies; I could do a whole analysis comparing a "teen of the nineties" (my name for this age group; it hasn't been decided what it means to be a child of a given decade but being a teen of another decade makes more sense) with a 68 (representative Gen-X) cohort and an 89 (representative Millie) cohort but I'm too lazy at the moment; I'll do it if people ask tho (speaking as a member of the latest generationless haze)

On 2002-05-05 14:04, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2002-05-05 12:28, Stonewall Patton wrote:

To summarize, the poster is:

1) a T4T regular.

2) a Boomer

3) definitely not an atheist and probably a Christian (although it is plainly impossible to "know" this from his "works" displayed here).

4) someone who more than likely resorts to personal attack, routinely, when he confronts a post (and poster) with which he disagrees. He is probably noted for rarely, if ever, challenging any of the actual points made. In other words, he is all bluster; sound and fury signifying nothing.

5) one of the few here who uses the term "whinging."

6) someone who has probably been known to drink heavily while posting to T4T.

7) someone who has been fuming about Justin for some time. Look for any poster who has shown unusual contempt for Justin recently.


Well, there was actually a whole lot of information about the poster contained within that one litte post. I'll leave it to Jesse or somebody else to consider the seven points above and winnow the field of suspects.

#1 check, #2 check, #3 check, #5 check, #6 check (sort of I was probably on my fifth Gin & Tonic by this time) #4 no, #7 no


I was at the wedding of my nephew and about as far from T4T as I can get. It was an amazing collection of late Xers and early Millennials in Blue Zone Minnesota and a group that encapsuled Mr. C. S. Lewis' Four Loves in the event. There was the agape at his Roman Catholic Mass; the patros as 9-11, and Minnesota values were recalled, the philos of my nephews amazing set of friends from Engineering School and the Boy Scout Camp he has worked on vacations for over a decade and eros in the dancing that went on to late hours.

No a whinge on the plain; but good natured, pleasant, devout, friendly, horny American girls and boys seeing two of their own setting off amid the well wishes of the GI grand parents and Boomer Parents and relations.


There were so many overlappings of what G.K. Chesterton and De Tocqueville called "little battalions" that make live better than bearable by mediating the individual and the Authority above him in Church and the State. I was surprised by the joy of it all.


So I was otherwise employed when that Legion which is Justin was attacked (I had much earlier warned him to not reform when he was asked to do just that) and would not even if in my cups. HTH

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Virgil K. Saari on 2002-05-05 15:13 ]</font>

Ah, Mr. Saari, I'm not certain that it even needs to be stated, but in case it does: I never suspected you of writing that post. Indeed it is obvious that you did not. In fact I suspect that you as an INTP would have been happier in my generation than in your own, Boomer enthusiasm being what it is.

BTW, sorry for the "Grunter" post. Just did not know where to cut it.