He definitely seems the last of the last.
He was just a noted eccentric and known as a total slob. He was the type of person that was pushing the revolution.
I saw the Liberty as being kind of swept up in things.
He definitely seems the last of the last.
He was just a noted eccentric and known as a total slob. He was the type of person that was pushing the revolution.
I saw the Liberty as being kind of swept up in things.
As exhausted NOMADS replace Prophets in elderhood during a High, they slow the pace of social change, shunning the old crusades in favor of simplicity and survivalism.
Heres a picture of Luke Helder
who is shaping up to look more and more Xer-ish...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...168/1iamr.html
Here's a sample of Mr. Helder's rantings.
I can't even begin to try to interpret him. :???:
Heres a picture of Luke Helder
who is shaping up to look more and more Xer-ish...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...168/1iamr.html
My Goodness...Kurt Cobain on his "T-shirt"! Could he be a Millie, or is he in Generation <h3>X</h3> ...hmmm
Whoops...forgot the quotes. Sorry Ty...
Yes,Xerish for sure.
"You are not your bank account. You are not the clothes you wear. You are not the contents of your wallet. You are not your bowel concer. You are not your grande latte. You are not the car you drive. You are not your f**king khakis... I say, let me never be complete. I say, may I never be content. I say, deliver me from swedish furniture. I say, deliver me from clever art. I say, deliver me from clear skin and perfect teeth... I say, evolve, and let the chips fall where they may."
- Tyler Durden
Fight Club
Lots of my peers/friends in the class of 2001 and even in the class of 2002 seemed to be big Kurt Cobain fans... what would you make of that?... and physically he looks nearly exactly like someone in the class of 2001 at my old HS FWIWOn 2002-05-08 10:44, Mark Y wrote:
Heres a picture of Luke Helder
who is shaping up to look more and more Xer-ish...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...168/1iamr.html
My Goodness...Kurt Cobain on his "T-shirt"! Could he be a Millie, or is he in Generation <h3>X</h3> ...hmmm
_________________
William '84
Not only was I born in 1984, but I even live in Room 101!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mmailliw on 2002-05-08 13:38 ]</font>
And one more thing (FWIW)... many people seem to think that logical thinking is a very Heroic/Millie trait; however I disagree - I think it's the exception in ALL FOUR archetypes:
Heroes generally prefer to let others do their thinking for them
Nomads (like Justin '79) would rather do things on instinct
Prophets prefer to seek visions and
Artists... well, do artists think logically? I doubt it!
Such a type seems to appear, though, in all four archetypes (and is not necessarily incompatible with any of them - existentialist philosophers, for example, seem to be very logical Nomads!)
Male,
I don't want to be adversarial. But do you know any GIs? They thought plenty for themselves, and my grandmother is one of the best educated, most socially aware people I know. No she doesn't represent a small minority. There were plenty GI poets, painters, film makers, musicians, playwrights...people like Vonnegut, Kerouac, Burroughs, Mingus, Westermann---they all come to mind.
Even schmucks like Ronald Reagan, JFK, Gerald Ford, Nixon---they had brains (some of them).
Its really unfounded and derogatory to think of them all as just Father Knows Best, dying on the beaches of Normandy or turning into Kevin's Dad on Wonder Years.
From my perception, the GIs were very educated (or thought they knew alot), they were very civically involved (most of the people that came to register people at my high school were GIs), they were very proud of their defining moment, and like other Gens (Boom, Silent) took time to deride their grandchildrens clothing (big hair, ripped jeans).
I think what set them apart was that in their elderhood, they really were America. They couldn't be like my snot nosed gen and say whatever....they were still holding down the fort, with the highest voter turnout, still acting like the civic relationshup matered while my buds and i were saying "whatever," because we had the luxury.
Now that they are gone, who will replace them?
It seems that with these books, the post-9-11 hoopla, the Forbes article on "The New Smarts" who will rebuild things after Xers blew it all, that they really want the younger generation to step up to the plate, and use those Harvard educations for something.
As for Helder, he looks young and different, that's for sure.
Whatever it is he is part of that larger trend of Columbine, and John Walker Lindh. Most Xers (older ones) look at these kids like "What the f*ck?" I mean we used to dream about blowing up our high school but we never actually *did* it.
I guess maybe its linked to that younger school shotting phenomenona.
Mail, I respect your opinion. I don't consider the GIs the Gretaest Gen, or any Gen.But I do think that people like Arthur Miller and Charles Mingus, and Even Sammy Davis Jr. Jackie Gleason and Rodney Dangerfield would be a little pissed off to you likening them to robots.
They just weren't a bunch of self destructive, over emotional whiners, like Edna St Vincent Millay, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Dorothy Parker...and Me.
Ty.
Artists critical thinking comes from their intense and intuitive sensitivity to detail.
They drive me crazy.
Two 1922 cohorts that always struck me as much more Silent than GI.On 2002-05-08 15:53, Ty Webb wrote:
Male,
I don't want to be adversarial. But do you know any GIs? They thought plenty for themselves, and my grandmother is one of the best educated, most socially aware people I know. No she doesn't represent a small minority. There were plenty GI poets, painters, film makers, musicians, playwrights...people like Vonnegut, Kerouac,
All right, he is a 1914 cohort solidly in the GI range, but does "A bookworm with strong homoerotic urges, a fascination with guns and crime and a natural inclination to break every rule he could find, there seemed to be no way Burroughs could ever fit into normal society." sound like the exception or the rule in a GI cohort? (there are a significant number of exceptions in each year, even 1914, 1931, 1950, 1968, or 1991),Burroughs
Another 1922 cohort: it seems like there are a lot of those 1922 Silent inspirers (will the 1998-99 crowd provide the artistic inspiration for the Homelanders? I wouldn't be surprised!)Mingus
Another 1922 cohort artist!Westermann
To me there's one person who's completely inappropriate for his year and the rest are all 1922 last-wave GI's who set the tone for the Silents... not one of them strikes me as a hardcore GI.---they all come to mind.
Whom Stonewall Patton considers to be a cusper with some LostEven schmucks like Ronald Reagan
All born in the mid 19-teens; though they had brains they were very Civically minded (after all they all became presidents!)JFK, Gerald Ford, Nixon---they had brains (some of them).
True (though that does seem to describe most of those GIs); I just can't see any of those people except possibly for the exception Burroughs as archetypically similar to me (ESPECIALLY not the 22-wave artists)Its really unfounded and derogatory to think of them all as just Father Knows Best, dying on the beaches of Normandy or turning into Kevin's Dad on Wonder Years.
Educated... checkFrom my perception, the GIs were very educated (or thought they knew alot), they were very civically involved (most of the people that came to register people at my high school were GIs), they were very proud of their defining moment, and like other Gens (Boom, Silent) took time to deride their grandchildrens clothing (big hair, ripped jeans).
Civically involved... kind of
Defining moment... what defining moment? mine can't be 9/11!
Deride clothing... probably will
Yeah... that definitely is an impressive legacy to haveI think what set them apart was that in their elderhood, they really were America. They couldn't be like my snot nosed gen and say whatever....they were still holding down the fort, with the highest voter turnout, still acting like the civic relationshup matered while my buds and i were saying "whatever," because we had the luxury.
Yeah... with the C2K stuff it seems like they were trying to get even the 1982 cohorts to do that; I'm pretty sure that many of the 82ers took the bait but the 83 - 86ers might not as muchNow that they are gone, who will replace them?
It seems that with these books, the post-9-11 hoopla, the Forbes article on "The New Smarts" who will rebuild things after Xers blew it all, that they really want the younger generation to step up to the plate, and use those Harvard educations for something.
Sounds like Generation Y/The Peanut Butter Generation to me!As for Helder, he looks young and different, that's for sure.
Whatever it is he is part of that larger trend of Columbine, and John Walker Lindh. Most Xers (older ones) look at these kids like "What the f*ck?" I mean we used to dream about blowing up our high school but we never actually *did* it.
I guess maybe its linked to that younger school shotting phenomenona.
Arthur Miller seems a good bit more GI-like except for that individualist artistic streak; Mingus is a 1922 inspirer of Silents, Davis, Jr. IS a late 25-waver (S&H Silent!) who seems much more Silent, Jackie Gleason is a 1916 actor (who seems more GI-like to me), and Rodney Dangerfield was a late 21-waver who can almost be lumped in with the 22s (he even married a 52-wave boomer; that should also be evidence of his being more Silent than GI!)Mail, I respect your opinion. I don't consider the GIs the Gretaest Gen, or any Gen.But I do think that people like Arthur Miller and Charles Mingus, and Even Sammy Davis Jr. Jackie Gleason and Rodney Dangerfield would be a little pissed off to you likening them to robots.
They just weren't a bunch of self destructive, over emotional whiners, like Edna St Vincent Millay, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Dorothy Parker...and Me.
Ty.
I can see what you mean, but it still seems like none of these people have places analogous to mine in the saeclum (Burroughs was a TOTAL misfit for his year! maybe if he was born in 1907...) especially since most of them are very silent-like (and therefore would be more inspirational to 94 or 99-wavers who do not feel like Millies); meanwhile the historical figures I identify with the most remain the N/H cuspers Jefferson and Socrates (I know he's before the saeclum but what else can he be?) so I still consider myself a cusper (but then again the 89-wavers will mature soon and I'll have a better idea then...)
_________________
William '84
Not only was I born in 1984, but I even live in Room 101!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mmailliw on 2002-05-09 00:26 ]</font>
Mail,
Arthur Miller totally derided the Commie witch hunts of the 1950s. I don't see him as a conformist at all.
As for you and your way around things, Westermann watched a boat load of his buddies die in the South Pacific. I don't see that as part of the Silent coming of age experience.
The way things are shaping in this debate, up to 1911 is Lost cuspish, and post 1921 is Silent cuspish, so the only GIs were really born in 1912-1920. But hey, Woody Guthrie was born in 1912, and he was always traveling around with a guitar....I guess that makes him a Nomad too.
Reagan is Mr. GI. I cannot think of anyone more GI than him, except for JFK.
Stonewall is nuts.
There is no "Lost" cusp with someone born in 1911 who was 7 when WWI ended.
I'm sure Jimmy Stewart (1908) was Mr. Lost too.
God, first you spew BS, then you believe it.
As for Burroughs being analogous to you, Well he came dead center, and you come at the begining.
As for 9-11 being your "event" it wasn't.
What do you want to be overcome by a USO Show?
Do you think the Boston Tea Party "defined a generation."
I bet there were both Nomads and Heroes there that night, I wonder how you could tell the difference...maybe the Nomads were hacking into the tea chests with individualistic ferocity, and the Heroes were helping each other out, carrying the chests in teams and hacking into them.
Actually, no, they were waiting for orders from the Nomads, then they began to do it.
They couldn't understand how to build a government or hack a tea chest without being told....
If you ask me, this conversation is getting a bit wacky..
You know what..I have a photo album by a very artistic GI named W. Eugene Smith.
He was born in 1918.
Maybe the real GIs were born from 1913-1917.
:wink:
Ty.
Ten-year generations and ten-year cusps don't sound all that crazy to me... (and concerning the 1922 cohorts, if anything, 1922 would be to the Silents what 1939 would be to the Boomers, 1979 would be to the Millies, and 1999 could easily be to the New Silents)On 2002-05-08 17:10, Ty Webb wrote:
Mail,
Arthur Miller totally derided the Commie witch hunts of the 1950s. I don't see him as a conformist at all.
As for you and your way around things, Westermann watched a boat load of his buddies die in the South Pacific. I don't see that as part of the Silent coming of age experience.
The way things are shaping in this debate, up to 1911 is Lost cuspish, and post 1921 is Silent cuspish, so the only GIs were really born in 1912-1920. But hey, Woody Guthrie was born in 1912, and he was always traveling around with a guitar....I guess that makes him a Nomad too.
That may be (personally I would put Reagan in Generation Senile myself as I know nothing about the guy except his policies and senility), but am I in the same generation as someone born in 1981 or someone born in 1991? Even 1980 seems closer to me than the second-wave Millies... it seems just as nuts to believe that I'll feel more of a shared generational experience with the 90s crowd than the early 80s crowdReagan is Mr. GI. I cannot think of anyone more GI than him, except for JFK.
Stonewall is nuts.
There is no "Lost" cusp with someone born in 1911 who was 7 when WWI ended.
I'm sure Jimmy Stewart (1908) was Mr. Lost too.
:lol:God, first you spew BS, then you believe it.
As for Burroughs being analogous to you, Well he came dead center, and you come at the begining.
As for 9-11 being your "event" it wasn't.
What do you want to be overcome by a USO Show?
Do you think the Boston Tea Party "defined a generation."
I bet there were both Nomads and Heroes there that night, I wonder how you could tell the difference...maybe the Nomads were hacking into the tea chests with individualistic ferocity, and the Heroes were helping each other out, carrying the chests in teams and hacking into them.
I don't think my wave really had any 'event'... what is there? OJ Simpson? The Republican Revolution? Columbine? The Persian Gulf War? At least you have Challenger...Actually, no, they were waiting for orders from the Nomads, then they began to do it.
They couldn't understand how to build a government or hack a tea chest without being told....
Abnormality or cusp? Who knows? I think I know Stonewall's answer, and I'm also pretty sure that social science cannot be made exact to cover every case like mathematics can, so here I am, sitting three rungs above Jefferson...If you ask me, this conversation is getting a bit wacky..
You know what..I have a photo album by a very artistic GI named W. Eugene Smith.
He was born in 1918.
Maybe the real GIs were born from 1913-1917.
:wink:
Ty.
_________________
William '84
Not only was I born in 1984, but I even live in Room 101!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mmailliw on 2002-05-08 17:38 ]</font>
At least you have Challenger...
Oh yeah it was great...better than Saturday Morning cartoons.
Here's a cute Gen X/Gen Y boundary anecdote:
http://worldwidejeb.org/words/2002/03/14/
Come on...how many 22 year olds are there who grew up with Pokemon?
Or 17... and if you know who coined the term, you're most likely either an Xer... or a TFTer :smile:On 2002-05-08 18:35, Mark Y wrote:
Here's a cute Gen X/Gen Y boundary anecdote:
http://worldwidejeb.org/words/2002/03/14/
Come on...how many 22 year olds are there who grew up with Pokemon?
TFT...definitely a cult.
Nod, nod, wink, wink.
Why be liberal or conservative?
Just be yourself.
That's real Gen X...and common sense.
And makes sense... it IS worth noting that there is more disagreement amongst those who consider themselves liberal (try getting Brian Rush, Eric Meese, Robert Reed, and myself into a room and getting the four of us to agree on ANYthing!) than amongst those who use the conservative label - maybe because those with the former don't feel they have to do things because they're "liberal" whereas those with the latter often feel they have to do things because they're "conservative" - anyway, for me at least, "being liberal" and "being myself" are most definitely NOT mutually exclusiveOn 2002-05-08 20:07, JayN wrote:
TFT...definitely a cult.
Nod, nod, wink, wink.
Why be liberal or conservative?
Just be yourself.
That's real Gen X...and common sense.
A rather interesting take on the Millenial generation by a Mr. Lyndon LaRouche.
Nutty as hell but he does have some insight into the program of mass brainwashing going on with today's kids.
http://www.rense.com/general24/perp.htm
According to Search, "whinge" or "whinging" have appeared in the notes of ten different posters: Virgil Saari, Tristan Jones, Marc Lamb, David Krein, Susan Brombacher, Jenny Genser, Barbara, Terminator X, HopefulCynic and cbailey. With HopefulCynic and cbailey, the word "whinge" only appeared in material they were quoting inside quote bars in their notes, so cross them off the list. David, Susan and Jenny only used the word "whinge" in notes that asked about the word "whinge" or explained it, after somebody else posted a note in that topic using the term. Barbara's only use was right after someone else used the word "whinge" in quoted material. That leaves four posters (Virgil Saari, Tristan Jones, Marc Lamb and Terminator X (this was the name he chose to use for this particular post)), who have the word as part of their active vocabulary.On 2002-05-04 21:08, Stonewall Patton wrote:
Nah, I can't see Mr. Saari getting this bent out of shape over Justin. No way. There are only a select few here who have incorporated "whinging" into their lexicons so the choices are indeed limited. Perhaps Jesse Manoogian can solve this mystery as well.
Yeah.
I was born in the 70s, yet am part of a generation I know nothing of.
"Y"
Whoever reads what article will tell you the cut off is either 1975,76,77 or 78.
Then there are those of us that actually are born on the cusp that will tell you where it really is.
Then of course there are other sources. Third Millennium (and they should know) place the boundary at 1980. Gen X-YNot magazine placed it as (1965-1981). In a book called "Postmoderns" it was 1965-1981 also.
In "Culture Jam" by Kalle Lasn, it was 1965 to 1980.
I have also seen 1961-1979 (Boston Globe)
1960 to 1980 (Welcome to the Jungle) and many other variations.
Why not just say "born in the 60s and 70s"
That leaves plenty of room for anybody that knows what it is.
As for "what it is" what is it?
We talk about "Boomers" and "Silents" and "Xers".
People say "I feel Xer-ish" because they are cynical. But we live in cynical times. Bill Maher and PJ O'Rourke say be more cynical. Are they Xers?
Tonight I saw a younger woman and an old man with a poney tail dancing to "Magic carpet Ride" at the bar.
Are they "Boomers"?
Everything is so vague.
[quote]
On 2002-05-05 12:28, Stonewall Patton wrote:
Well, hell, it's a nice Sunday afternoon. Might as well have a little fun with some lighter stuff. Jesse where are you? We need you to dissect, analyze, and attribute this post.
[quote]
Well, I can found this...
This person doesn't care or remember whether it's "people a few years younger" or "a few years older" whom Justin doesn't identify with: "a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever". Too annoyed to care or remember. Someone right within Justin's range would remember distinctly that it was people only three years YOUNGER than Justin, while people much older than him were safe by Justin's standards. A person born in 1975 or after would remember this, so this flamer must have been born in 1974 or earlier and be too old to care personally which of the two it was.So quit whinging about how bad you're treated and how you don't identify with people a few years younger than you or older than you, or whatever, and get a damn life.
The 13th Generation (Nomad, born 1961-1981) survived a ?hurried? childhood of divorce, latchkeys, open classrooms, devil-child movies, and a shift from G to R ratings.
My parents are still together, bitter as they are. I wasn't a latch key kid either. I did experience the "devil child" movies, but I thought they were just scary, and wasn't offended.I guess my childhood was hurried. I mean I was exposed to alot at a young age.
They came of age curtailing the earlier rise in youth crime and fall in test scores?yet heard themselves denounced as so wild and stupid as to put The Nation At Risk
Yes.
As young adults, maneuvering through a sexual battlescape of AIDS and blighted courtship rituals?they date and marry cautiously.
How can I agree more? I think the whole stupidity and inaneness of our gender roles is what sparked my interest in feminism
In jobs, they embrace risk and prefer free agency over loyal corporatism.
Yes. My friends have no allegience to anything, be it their school, their job. We do have an allegience to one another, and often trust each other over family
From grunge to hip-hop, their splintery culture reveals a hardened edge.
Oh God, they make it sound so menacing. Its just music. Get over it.
Politically, they lean toward pragmatism and nonaffiliation, and would rather volunteer than vote.
I originally registered as liberal because I wouldnt get any party mail. I am now a Green because I hate the major parties and refuse to vote for them. I don't join anything, although I may aprticipate and help out
Widely criticized as ?Xers? or ?slackers,? they inhabit a Reality Bites economy of declining young-adult living standards.
You know what, I could sit and whine about social security, but that would be pretty pathetic. America isn't going to give me shit, and im not asking for it. America to me is a map where we all pay taxes inside the map. I dont expect much from the institutions because they have a crappy track record and theyre run by rich assholes. So if I have declining living standards...its ok. Id rather have no obligations than a fucking wife and a mortgage.
