On 2002-05-19 01:17, Susan Brombacher wrote:

On 2002-05-18 23:07, Jesse Manoogian wrote:

I actually remember James Landau and saw his posts from the earlier days. I guess if I were to suspect I were seeing James Landau in disguise, it would be from reading posts born from someone in 1979 that took a welcoming position in regards to people born in 1984 or so, saying that they're in his own generation and he can't see any difference between them. In that sense he DOES sound a lot like Craig and you. And you both share the same views about laws and policies instituted against teens, but that's not at all distinctive especially with your (our) birthyear range. I might describe Landau as the anti-Justin; the mirror side of the 1979 birthyear's views. I never imagined you guys as being James Landau though. Your writing styles are all so very different, and of course I've seen you speak/reply to him in the third person. Justin, though...a definite Justin vibe comes through sooner or later. Ty's first posts sounded like God was a different person and he disagreed with some of God's ideas...and yet it wasn't long before he announced he was born in 1979, and before you knew it, he was sounding just like Justin'79. Now I'm wondering whether to become immediately suspicious whenever a newcomer says he was born in 1979.

I remember James' posts. As I recall, they seemed Millennialish. Does anyone know what REALLY happened to ames? There was a rumor for a while that he was hit by a bus and became comatose and never came out of it. I think it was some sort of joke though.

No idea... anyway, tho, how can you see a connection between the posts of James Landau, Jesse Manoogian, and myself (all three you seem to think of as Millennialish) and your Millie daughter (your son probably isn't representative of ANY cohort year)? I'd like you to explain that... I'm just not seeing the generational link there

On 2002-05-15 17:49, Kiff '61 wrote:
Jesse, are you implying that Susan Brombacher is now posting as Miss Anthrope?

No, actually, Kiff, I think Miss Anthrope seems to be an expert plagiarist. She seems to have incorporated a lot of things other people wrote into her own notes. I get deja vu on a lot of her sentences. The comment about children who wore helmets being "laughed off the block" instantly sounded familiar to me. I know in another note she started out by mentioning how a 1964 cohort would be only 5 when Woostock occurred, which I remember being mentioned in a letter Anthony Brancato posted, but that's a pretty easy observation to make any time anyone thinks about the year 1964 being Boomer, so I let that one go. She had another part of the note that was also clipped for Susan, when she wrote about how the Millennial generation included a group of anarchist teens, "which S&H ignore". (Yes, the comma and following end of the sentence were in a note Susan used). She went on to say that they seemed "to be clean-cut versions of the hippie radicals of the 60's", which I also remember from Susan's note on this phenomenon, although I recall her saying "cleaned-up versions" rather than "clean-cut versions". If I remember correctly. Maybe she (he?) does this to hide her identity; so instead of thinking how to say things without using a writing style that will give her away (whoever she might be.....hmmmm), she lifts groups of words from other people's notes for as many of her sentences as possible.

This Miss Anthrope person appears to be a troll. In a private message to me she told me she was a long-time poster here having changed the screenname recently. Yet in her note from 20:48 on May 1, she asks a lot of questions about Generation Jones and sounds as if she is completely unfamiliar with what this Jones concept is, and wants us to explain it. She kept writing about how she was new to this forum and commenting on the things she's discovered here for the first time. I think she's really been reading these boards for a LONG time and wants to get people to explain Generation Jones so they can have people arguing about interpolated generations and open a can of worms. All this stuff about 1982 and 1983 cohorts being all civic and listening to the Backstreet Boys while the older "Xers" in the older classes look down at them sounds like classic troll material for these boards, while also sounding somewhat like Justin'79. I figured if it's not Justin'79, it must be someone saying something like that to get a big reaction out of him and others, since Justin WAS talking about how he views the 1981- kids on that thread at the time. There's the definite playfulness and that language that I recognize that sounds like certain people who seem to come on this board periodically. And the wanting something explained was requested in just the same style I remember from some people who are probably trolls; does anyone remember

http://www.fourthturning.com/cgi-bin...es/a.cgi/3--96 ?

On 2002-05-15 18:25, Miss Anthrope wrote:

That's good detective work, Jesse. Okay, for that you deserve the truth. I 'fess up! Surprised? (and you thought I was Justin!) I did attempt to disguise myself (without actually making up anything) just for fun and see how many people could guess it was me. But no one did, until now. I think I'll still use this handle from time to time because I like it, but I guess I'll have to think up something else if I really want to be anonymous.

WHATTTT THE -----???????!!!!?????? THAT WAS YOU????

So you mean to tell me that you sent me that private message as Miss Anthrope and then I sent a private message to Susan Brombacher and it was the same person? Daaaamnnnnn.... Not "making up anything"? Well, you spoke as if you were new here and didn't know what Generation Jones was and then you had that Backstreet Boys bit...I'd say that changes your identity. Wouldn't you just post the same way you do under your "Susan Brombacher" handle if you wanted to see if people could catch you? Or was the idea to create a completely new identity with her own view of the world who came out of nowhere and see if anyone could figure out that Susan was ultimately behind it?

Shoot! Not even *I* could see that it was Susan!

On 2002-05-15 18:53, Justin wrote:
Most people born in the 70s express a kind of "weird" response to people born in the 1980s. They see them as different. And as for your Luke Helder, Elijah Woods, John Walker, Dylan Kleibold, Britney Spears peer group, please explain :smile:

What is there to explain our placement? All I have to say about us is that we see both a 1977 cohort and a 1985 cohort as being in the same generational group. I can never sense any difference with either, in any aspect. Any more difference, that is, than the difference between individuals within the same generation. We always have the same cultural references and the same idea of who "we" is. Except when YOU'RE around. You like to keep talking about Three's Company and the A-team and other shows I never watched in my life.

On 2002-05-15 18:51, Justin'79 wrote:
Jesse, most of my friends parents are divorced. Alot of them have drug problems etc. They fit the late Xer bill in so many ways.

A lot of your friends have drug problems, or a lot of your friends' parents have drug problems? I don't really see 1984 as any different because I know a lot of them with drug problems do. Come to think of it, there are many birthyears spanning decades that are full of people who are still addicted to drugs. The GI's seem to be the cleanest though, not counting the cohorts who are still children.

On 2002-05-19 02:58, Jesse Manoogian wrote:

On 2002-05-15 18:53, Justin wrote:
Most people born in the 70s express a kind of "weird" response to people born in the 1980s. They see them as different. And as for your Luke Helder, Elijah Woods, John Walker, Dylan Kleibold, Britney Spears peer group, please explain :smile:

What is there to explain our placement? All I have to say about us is that we see both a 1977 cohort and a 1985 cohort as being in the same generational group. I can never sense any difference with either, in any aspect. Any more difference, that is, than the difference between individuals within the same generation. We always have the same cultural references and the same idea of who "we" is. Except when YOU'RE around. You like to keep talking about Three's Company and the A-team and other shows I never watched in my life.

http://www.yesterdayland.com/popoped....php?ID=PT1246
A-Team nostalgia site... notice the birthyears of the fans - some include 1984 (and some later who watched the show on reruns)... it seems to be more a particular taste among a broad age group than a broad taste among a particular age group

Why 1977 then and not 1976?
I went to a bar last night with people born from 1975-1980, except I didn't see any 1984 cohorts there...oh whoops, you guys are under age.
I don't know where you are basing your 1976/1977 split nor your 1985/86 split.
Sounds about as good as a 1981/82 split to me :lol:
As far as conceptualizations of generations go, No ,I dont view my 1984 cousins or aquaintances to be in my generation.
I think the 6 year olds of 1983 were very different from the 6 year olds of 1991, and i think some of the younger members of this board are in fact so young that they fail to see the difference. I also think that the people that really entered their childhood post 1985 are in the same Gen as those born after them rather than before them. The 1980s ar still so fresh in my mind that its hard for me to imagine being in the same generation as someone born in 1985 because, really, 1985 or 1986 wasn't that different from 2000, at least mood wise.
These are my opinions.
I think it is kind of funny how you try to destroy the assertion of my feelings with random facts culled from Internet searches.
I also think it is funny how much effort you have put into researching the different posters and their different incarnations.
I bet the more Millennial 1981 friends of mine would be responding exactly like you.
I tried to explain the whole Star Wars-era childhood experience of being a child of a different time (I am really fumbling for words here) but it just doesn't seem to come across. I point to films about children from the 70s and early 80s as kind of a reference point, but I guess they just look like normal kids to you.
I can't really explain my feelings anymore than that, and I really shouldn't have to. They ae my feelings.
So Jesse Milloogian, Milliam.
Sit on it. :lol:
Have a nice day,
Ty.

Let me clarify that i don't see Millennials as all "listening to Backstreet Boys, being civic, and stuff."
I usually say things like that to get a rise out of you son.
How do I view them?
Alot of them seemed over-pushed, having to compete too much in education. I read a whole series in the New York Times about these stellar 1984 cohorts that all they seemed to do was worry about college like it was God or something. I'd expect Nomads to worry less about God, and even less about college to this kind of bizarre extent.
But its not their making, it truly is their competitive Boomer parents that want to compete against each other for child raising skills.
I know this because I have Boomer parents like that. However, I see my age group as more willing to call them on their shit.
The 1984, 85, 86 cohorts I know will do as they are told.
The post 1982 set seems weird to me because they have entered their Teens in the mid-90s, (yes, I consider age 13 to be the true start of your teens) which were just a bland time to begin with.
For most of them their memories of life dont really include the 80s. Plus they were children for a significant portion of the 1990s...how weird is that?
I have several friends born in 1982 that say they have very little memory of the 80s. If they do its of the shitty late 80s which to me had much more in common with this Unraveling vibe than the fun grassroots days of yesteryear that petered out in the early 80s.
(No this isnt some "C2K" blip)
As for 1983, 1984, yeah I see them as part of the same generation. Soft kids doing as they are told. Their "fuck the system" attitude or rather "fuck you" attitude that Nomads have or had is tempered by loving adults who are looking out for them.
Plus they don't seem to really understand the Awakening concept.
Perhaps it was just so mystikal, only those of us that were there can understand :lol:

Ty.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-19 06:13 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-19 06:14 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-19 06:18 ]</font>

Ty, don't worry about what Jesse, William or anyone else thinks. I agree with you. Besides, it's all just opinions anyway. Like a$$es, everyone has them.

Now, as for my identity. I was certainly not intending to plagiarize anyone nor was I intending to instigate an argument between any posters on this board. I am not a troll. I simply thought it would be fun to use a different name and try to disguise myself somewhat and see if anyone could guess . I guess the disguise worked a little *too* well. :smile: But I still like the name anyway.

I'm not sure whether I should feel flattered or insulted. Actually I think it was funny that you thought I was Justin '79. I was not intending to sound like him either, but reading back over my first post here, I can see why you might come to that conclusion. :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Miss Anthrope on 2002-05-19 08:04 ]</font>

How in the hell can a '79 cohort know what an awakening was like? Get real, you were still in diapers.

On 2002-05-19 06:11, Ty Webb wrote:
The post 1982 set seems weird to me because they have entered their Teens in the mid-90s, (yes, I consider age 13 to be the true start of your teens) which were just a bland time to begin with.
For most of them their memories of life dont really include the 80s. Plus they were children for a significant portion of the 1990s...how weird is that?
I have several friends born in 1982 that say they have very little memory of the 80s. If they do its of the shitty late 80s which to me had much more in common with this Unraveling vibe than the fun grassroots days of yesteryear that petered out in the early 80s.
(

Being born in 1962, I would say that I have very little memories of the "glorious" 1960's that I hear boomers shouting about all the time. The only part of the sixties I really recall is 1969 and then it is limited to the Moon missions. I would say that given my experiences that I would venture to say that a kid born in 1982 would experience the same thing as myself in regards to the 1980's. It is my theory that you don't remember much until the age of 7 of which a 19X2 cohort would be 7 or 8 at the 19X9 year of their X decade. Hence, most of their early memories would be centered on those years.

Will

On 2002-05-19 10:27, wrstrutts wrote:

On 2002-05-19 06:11, Ty Webb wrote:
The post 1982 set seems weird to me because they have entered their Teens in the mid-90s, (yes, I consider age 13 to be the true start of your teens) which were just a bland time to begin with.
For most of them their memories of life dont really include the 80s. Plus they were children for a significant portion of the 1990s...how weird is that?
I have several friends born in 1982 that say they have very little memory of the 80s. If they do its of the shitty late 80s which to me had much more in common with this Unraveling vibe than the fun grassroots days of yesteryear that petered out in the early 80s.
(

Being born in 1962, I would say that I have very little memories of the "glorious" 1960's that I hear boomers shouting about all the time. The only part of the sixties I really recall is 1969 and then it is limited to the Moon missions. I would say that given my experiences that I would venture to say that a kid born in 1982 would experience the same thing as myself in regards to the 1980's. It is my theory that you don't remember much until the age of 7 of which a 19X2 cohort would be 7 or 8 at the 19X9 year of their X decade. Hence, most of their early memories would be centered on those years.

Will

I understand your point; I agree that early memories are different from later memories - I'd feel that the cutoff though is being able to read about it in a newspaper YOURSELF and finding out on your own (as opposed to being told by your parents) - for me, the first time that happened was 1991 (I was reading the sports section and read the two words "civil unrest"); I was DEFINITELY able to do this by 1993 (Toys for Tots scandal!)

Ty,
Your feelings (based on specific locations) seem to only be accurate for these locations (my feelings see 81-84 as so different from those before and those after that we can be best said not to belong to any generation); I think we agree that 79 is in one heap, 84 is in another - what you seem to not be arguing against as much is that 89 belongs to a different heap from 84! Almost NO ONE outside this board would say that 1988 and 2002 are all that similar; anyway I'm now going to support my feelings with strong assertions
1. Early childhood (3 - 6)
1984 cohort: mid to late eighties (even 1990 was much more like 1989 than 1991)
TV shows: Sesame Street, Pee Wee's Playhouse, TMNT
First global memory: Most likely either the 87 crash (tho probably not), the 88 election, the 89 oil spill or the fall of the wall
1989 cohort: early to mid nineties
TV shows: Barney (Sesame Street and TMNT faded in popularity, Pee Wee caught playing with himself)
First global memory: 1992 elections would probably be too early; maybe Toys for Tots scandal, the baseball and hockey strikes of 1994, or the Republican Revolution
2. "Middle childhood" (ages 6 - 10)
84 cohort: early to mid nineties
Most likely learned about Gulf War as it happened in school, and the first event to meet your or my (the two Will's) standards for memory would likely either be Rodney King, the recession (at this point, the 89 cohort would be asking, "What's a recession?" :smile, the 1992 election, the Toys for Tots scandal, or the baseball strike
89 cohort: mid to late nineties
First memory by your or my standards would likely either be the OJ verdict (even that would be borderline; they were in kindergarten - and they were so sheltered!), the 96 election, the 97 internet boom (they practically grew up on the internet!), "Monica-gate", or Columbine
3. Preadolescence: ages 10 - 12
1984 cohort: mid nineties
Music: just caught the tail end of grunge but spent most of this time in the "alternative" phase
Near-complete understanding of the hockey strike, the OJ Simpson trial (these events still left somewhat of an impression)
1989 cohort: around 2000
Music: (PRE)TEEN POP
Corresponding events might be the millennium bug and E2K; 9/11 could fall into this category (and leave some impression) or maybe the next one
4. Early adolescence (ages 12 - 14); sorry, I don't see any major change between a 12-year-old and a 13-year-old except the linguistic structure of the numbers
1984 cohort: mid to late nineties
Music: Enjoying what's left of the alternative (and the ska movement of 97-98); becoming increasingly frustrated by the preteen pop (are we 84s becoming dated already?!?) at the end of this period
Events no longer have much of an influence at this point (so we're relatively unaffected by the late 3T hysteria that follows) but there was the 96 election (like that really mattered!), the internet explosion (happening late enough that we're not THAT facile with the internet) and the beginnings of Monica-gate
1989 cohort: early "today" decade
Music: same as before
9/11 actually had a strong impact for this group! (can't say much more because the other events would be in the future)

Comparing the remaining 89 events with the effect on 84ers:
Columbine, millennium bug, 9/11: 3 pieces of late 3T hysteria that did not affect us all that much (except for R-rated movies and Columbine)
E2K: could easily have cemented our cynicism beginning with Toys for Tots (charities keep the money for themselves and become rich!), the sports strikes (the richest people have power even when the rest are rich!), and OJ (rich guy gets away with MURDER) and building thru the late 3T hysteria and pop culture seemingly ignoring us... is there any justice left in this world at all?

I could have included some computer comparisons that were even more striking, but apparently that's irrelevant for a generational indicator - hopefully THIS shows whe9re I'm coming from

How in the hell can a '79 cohort know what an awakening was like? Get real, you were still in diapers.

Well, Deb8 I don't remember disco, civil un rest. I vaguely remember hearing things like "No nukes." In my life it was very cultural. As a young child I had long hair just like all the older kids, and my parents were extremely liberal and still bitter after the Vietnam War and Watergate. I had a very non-gendered "Awakened" upbringing, where things were not hidden from me. Our family did lots of nature oriented things. Then as we moved into the Miami Vice era (circa 1983-84 I guess) Things showed up that made a difference. My parents got much more conservative haircuts (I can remember when Mom's hair was really long), they got more toys, and they focused on themselves in a new way, becoming more materialistic and hungry for $$$$. That very early grassroots part of my life was over.
Meanwhile the Boomers in my family who had up until that time been living in apartments, shuffling their Xer kids around, settled down into homes, many of which they still live in. They stopped partying as much with my folks and leaving us kids all in the basement or somewhere unattended with complete free time.
Once more, they started having other kids.
They put pictures of these kids on cards and sent them at christmas. They gave these kids strange new names, like Reed, or Zak, or Taylor. Their special babies had to be protected from everything, and they couldn't watch TV with us. We couldn't even swear around them, hell, we couldn't be kids with them, because they were so special.
And so, I think that when I noticed that shift in my life from an early time that I remember as very nice and grassrootsy to this materialistic 80s time, what I was really watching was the last of the 70s, or Awakening being shunted aside, and the 3T or "1980s" taking over.

The end.
Ty.

Ill put it to you one last time like this.
All my best friends from early childhood through today were born from 1975 to 1981.
I was a little kid with them, an adolescent with them, a teen with them, and now a young adult with them. They are my generation.
Mark (76), Eric (79), Stacy (79), Marc (77), Chris (75), Jamie (80), Ashley (76), Brooke (80), beth (80), Joanna (80), Eric (76), Jamie (76), Steven (77), Matt (79), John (79), Kris (78), Jason (78)...these are all my childhood friends.
Becky (80), Rita (80), Dave (80), Rich (79), Aaron (78) Smack (78) Matt (81) Michael (76)
and the occasional Max (69) and Heth (72).
These are my friends. My childhood buds, the people I grew up with. They are really all I can say is "my generation." I can't see past this. Its my reality.
Thanks if you read,
Justin.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-19 17:32 ]</font>

I remember it that way too, Ty. Except the 80's weren't the beginning of a "Miami Vice" period....they were the start of the years where we really had to work hard...scramble to find a way to make a living...finally get our shit together....and watch alot of our Boomer friends (and their families)who decided to continue to "awaken", disintegrate.

Bizarre.

On 2002-05-19 17:21, Ty Webb wrote:
Ill put it to you one last time like this.
All my best friends from early childhood through today were born from 1975 to 1981.
I was a little kid with them, an adolescent with them, a teen with them, and now a young adult with them. They are my generation.
Mark (76), Eric (79), Stacy (79), Marc (77), Chris (75), Jamie (80), Ashley (76), Brooke (80), beth (80), Joanna (80), Eric (76), Jamie (76), Steven (77), Matt (79), John (79), Kris (78), Jason (78)...these are all my childhood friends.
Becky (80), Rita (80), Dave (80), Rich (79), Aaron (78) Smack (78) Matt (81) Michael (76)
and the occasional Max (69) and Heth (72).
These are my friends. My childhood buds, the people I grew up with. They are really all I can say is "my generation." I can't see past this. Its my reality.
Thanks if you read,
Justin.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-19 17:32 ]</font>

that much I understand... it's just the lumping of the 84s together with the 89s that I can't

Well my 84 cousins all have younger siblings born in 86, 88, 93, 94 etc.
I guess I just assumed that they would also feel they had alot in common with their relatives like I had.
I wont tell you who you are.
I just know who I am. Barely.

On 2002-05-19 18:20, Ty Webb wrote:
Well my 84 cousins all have younger siblings born in 86, 88, 93, 94 etc.
I guess I just assumed that they would also feel they had alot in common with their relatives like I had.
I wont tell you who you are.
I just know who I am. Barely.

yeah... I guess that having no relatives born in the ten-year period from 1987 to 1996 might mean something - and the way I see things, an 86er could either be in my wave or in the next (hardcore Millennial) one just like an 80er or an 81er could either be part of your wave or mine - and if you don't even pretend to know about the existence or lack of 84/89 divide then I guess we aren't even truly arguing at all but talking about two different divides (seeing your posts and those from others on this board leaves me more convinced that those born in 81-84 are truly fenced out from both X and Mill)

On 2002-05-19 18:20, Ty Webb wrote:
Well my 84 cousins all have younger siblings born in 86, 88, 93, 94 etc.
I guess I just assumed that they would also feel they had alot in common with their relatives like I had.
I wont tell you who you are.
I just know who I am. Barely.

yeah... I guess that having no relatives born in the ten-year period from 1987 to 1996 might mean something - and the way I see things, an 86er could either be in my wave or in the next (hardcore Millennial) one just like an 80er or an 81er could either be part of your wave or mine - and if you don't even pretend to know about the existence or lack of 84/89 divide then I guess we aren't even truly arguing at all but talking about two different divides (seeing your posts and those from others on this board leaves me more convinced that those born in 81-84 are truly fenced out from both X and Mill)

Yeah I just get annoyed when I see people slicing my age group up, like making 78 and 79 M and making 76 and 77 X.
As for 1984 one kid that was in the class of 2002 came to visit my school (he was a girl I knew's younger brother. Now she was a Millie like he was (I just use Millie to say "next generation." Both of these kids were totally nice and stuff. I felt really old, because while they were kids I was out and about.)
Its weird that he's now in college, as he was the one watching TRL those many years back.
Well, the kiddos are growing up :smile:


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-19 18:50 ]</font>

Be careful about generalizing your own experiences to others. I remember things from when I was a toddler, and I know others who do too.

XoE

And exactly what do you remember as a toddler? I was referring to outside of family events and not family personal events. I can remember back to 1966 but I can't say that I remember anything outside of my own small world. In this time frame, MLK and Robert Kennedy were assasinated, we had race riots across town from me, we had Woodstock, and the summer of love which were all oblivious to me. I say the age of seven because when I have interviewed others about their earliest memories, it is about the age of seven that we begin to look beyond the small confines of our family and notice the outside world. This comes from asking many people about what they remember. I know of a few that have told me they remember certain outside things but they fall into the context that it somehow personally affected their world. My boss who is my age recalls the race riots here because his dad sat with a shot gun guarding the door to the house and seeing tanks rolling down the street. My ex-wife remembers JFK getting shot because it happened on her birthday at age 3 and she recalled everyone crying. However, this is due to some traumatic event in the family that caused them to remember the events. I wasn't generalizing about my own life as much as the people I know who I have talked with about this. Whatever.

Will

On 2002-05-19 21:59, wrstrutts wrote:

Be careful about generalizing your own experiences to others. I remember things from when I was a toddler, and I know others who do too.

XoE

And exactly what do you remember as a toddler? I was referring to outside of family events and not family personal events. I can remember back to 1966 but I can't say that I remember anything outside of my own small world. In this time frame, MLK and Robert Kennedy were assasinated, we had race riots across town from me, we had Woodstock, and the summer of love which were all oblivious to me. I say the age of seven because when I have interviewed others about their earliest memories, it is about the age of seven that we begin to look beyond the small confines of our family and notice the outside world. This comes from asking many people about what they remember. I know of a few that have told me they remember certain outside things but they fall into the context that it somehow personally affected their world. My boss who is my age recalls the race riots here because his dad sat with a shot gun guarding the door to the house and seeing tanks rolling down the street. My ex-wife remembers JFK getting shot because it happened on her birthday at age 3 and she recalled everyone crying. However, this is due to some traumatic event in the family that caused them to remember the events. I wasn't generalizing about my own life as much as the people I know who I have talked with about this. Whatever.

Will

hmm... let me try to see my own memories on this scale:
1984 - 1986: no memories
1987: very crude until November and even then only family events
1988: sports and "read my lips" are the outside events i can remember
1989 + first two thirds of 1990: can remember more clearly (except sometimes i get the years confused) - can definitely remember outside events but mainly what I learned from my parents
SY (school year) 90-91: learned about Gulf War in school + read about "civil unrest" in the paper, so I'd say I began getting aware of global events at age 4 and definitely at age 6 or 7 (the two or three years after that were when I began to read them on my own in the paper)

You are right Wstrutts. But when you are dealing with eras, you may remember for example (if your parents were Hippies) that your father had a long beard, or your mother would smoke with your neighbor (later you learned it was pot).
I agree about the age of 7 to an extent.
Only in hindsight do I know that things like Grenada, Beirut existed. then they were just names with no meaning. kind of like I knew Duran Duran was a popular band, but not much else.
When you are little you are too busy watching 3-2-1 Contact to know alot about the world.
I can place dates due to movies and years of pre school. Like I know from picture that I went to pre school in 1982-83, so the memories I have of three kids stealing my toy in that pre-school occurred around 1982-83.
Sometimes I ask my parents. Like I had a memory of flying into Washington in a plane, my first flight I can remember. That apparently was in 1982. So I can remember things from a long time ago.
Although we watched the news alot when I was a kid, I remember thinking the map of the US was some kind of animal. Like new england was the head, and FL and TX were the feet.
It wasn't until around 1985-86 when I first remember events happening like Chernobyl, the Mets winning the World Series, Challenger exploding. I remember that vividly.
I can recall 1984 stuff, like seeing Ringling Bros. and that whole "Wheres the Beef" thing. I recall alot of Dallas, Hill Street Blues, Falconcrest, Air wolf, Happy Days, V., Love Boat, Threes Company.
I also recall a lot of Star Wars, Buck Rogers, even reruns of Battlestar Galactica I guess.
So I don't know whats important. 1982 in my memory certainly felt different from the other years. I remember being at a party in that 1981-84 period and being forced by a mob of kids to eat the booger I just picked (pretty gross huh?) or wandering outside of a party my parents were at, and befriending a neighbor who brought me to his house where I met his parents and we played Atari, all at the age of 4 totally unsupervised.
It was a nice time that whole 1981-1984/5 period for me. I remember it as being alot of fun, and always having fun with the kids i was friends with.
And those are the real memories that count! :smile:
Ty.

On 2002-05-19 21:59, wrstrutts wrote:

Be careful about generalizing your own experiences to others. I remember things from when I was a toddler, and I know others who do too.

XoE

And exactly what do you remember as a toddler? I was referring to outside of family events and not family personal events.

My very earliest memories are from the summer of 1964. My mom was pregnant with my brother and I remember her walking around with this big plaid tent dress.

Now, outside memories are a little harder to pin down. I do remember watching NBC News (in the days of Huntley/Brinkley) and seeing maps of Vietnam on the fuzzy black and white screen. If I had to nail down the time, it would have to be late 1964. And I do remember watching some Project Gemini launches around that time, or maybe into spring 1965.

My first very definite memory of a national event was either the Apollo 7 mission or the assassination of Martin Luther King. I can't remember which one came first.

And exactly what do you remember as a toddler? I was referring to outside of family events and not family personal events. I can remember back to 1966 but I can't say that I remember anything outside of my own small world. In this time frame, MLK and Robert Kennedy were assasinated, we had race riots across town from me, we had Woodstock, and the summer of love which were all oblivious to me. I say the age of seven because when I have interviewed others about their earliest memories, it is about the age of seven that we begin to look beyond the small confines of our family and notice the outside world. This comes from asking many people about what they remember. I know of a few that have told me they remember certain outside things but they fall into the context that it somehow personally affected their world. My boss who is my age recalls the race riots here because his dad sat with a shot gun guarding the door to the house and seeing tanks rolling down the street. My ex-wife remembers JFK getting shot because it happened on her birthday at age 3 and she recalled everyone crying. However, this is due to some traumatic event in the family that caused them to remember the events. I wasn't generalizing about my own life as much as the people I know who I have talked with about this. Whatever.

Well, a lot of one's early childhood memories of events come from how they impacted their families. For instance, you say you don't remember the racial situation when you were a kid. I may be wrong, but Michigan was NOT Alabama or Mississippi (although they went for Wallace in the '72 primary). If you spoke to an African-American the same age as you who grew up in the deep South, those events that you can't remember from the 'sixties are most likely very vivid in their minds. Even core "Xers" born in '66 or '67 who grew up in the South probably are keenly aware of the tensions of those days. After all, integration in most parts of the South didn't take place until around '71 or '72 (remember Remember the Titans?), so they most likely remember the vile taunting they went through during their early elementary school years.

And Vietnam...if you had an older sibling who was in service at the time, it can really hit home, even at a very young age. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a number of mid to late sixties cohorts (albeit not that many)who had an older sibling in Vietnam that remember the grief of those times.