On 2002-05-19 23:12, Kiff '61 wrote:

My very earliest memories are from the summer of 1964. My mom was pregnant with my brother and I remember her walking around with this big plaid tent dress.

Now, outside memories are a little harder to pin down. I do remember watching NBC News (in the days of Huntley/Brinkley) and seeing maps of Vietnam on the fuzzy black and white screen. If I had to nail down the time, it would have to be late 1964. And I do remember watching some Project Gemini launches around that time, or maybe into spring 1965.

My first very definite memory of a national event was either the Apollo 7 mission or the assassination of Martin Luther King. I can't remember which one came first.

My earliest memories of the outer world are of the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962. Of course, even then, I don't remember seeing news reports on TV or (obviously) reading about the crisis in the papers. I DO remember my mom pointing out those ubiquitous black-on-yellow signs and explaining what a "Fallout Shelter" was-- that it was where we were going to go when (not if, but WHEN) they ("Red" China, oddly-- not the Russians) dropped the "atom bomb" on New York.

Probably my first outer-world memory that didn't come second-hand from my parents was a "Gemini 4 In Orbit" newsstory-- part of a collage I put together for a Kindergarten class project. That was either late '64 or early '65.

I do seem to also vaguely recall seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in '64, but I'm not certain if I actually remember it, or just that I've heard it talked about so many times over the years that I just imagine that I do.

Now my earliest inner-world memories are....visiting Martha's Vineyard in July 1961 (I remember being amazed at putting our blue Mercury Comet on a ferry over to the island, being frightened of the seagulls, playing on the beach in my MV teeshirt with a light-blue sandpail and pale-yellow shovel).....then another vacation, to Provincetown, Cape Cod in July 1963 (we stayed at the Olde Colonial Inn, on Commercial Street across the street from the beach).....moving into our house near the Newark/Hillside (NJ) city line in July '64, and finally starting Kindergarten on Thursday, September 11th (!) that same year.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin Parker '59 on 2002-05-20 16:21 ]</font>

On 2002-05-20 16:12, Kevin Parker '59 wrote:

On 2002-05-19 23:12, Kiff '61 wrote:

On 2002-05-19 21:59, wrstrutts wrote:

Be careful about generalizing your own experiences to others. I remember things from when I was a toddler, and I know others who do too.

XoE

And exactly what do you remember as a toddler? I was referring to outside of family events and not family personal events.

My very earliest memories are from the summer of 1964. My mom was pregnant with my brother and I remember her walking around with this big plaid tent dress.

Now, outside memories are a little harder to pin down. I do remember watching NBC News (in the days of Huntley/Brinkley) and seeing maps of Vietnam on the fuzzy black and white screen. If I had to nail down the time, it would have to be late 1964. And I do remember watching some Project Gemini launches around that time, or maybe into spring 1965.

My first very definite memory of a national event was either the Apollo 7 mission or the assassination of Martin Luther King. I can't remember which one came first.

My earliest memories of the outer world are of the Cuban Missile Crisis of October 1962. Of course, even then, I don't remember seeing news reports on TV or (obviously) reading about the crisis in the papers. I DO remember my mom pointing out those ubiquitous black-on-yellow signs and explaining what a "Fallout Shelter" was-- that it was where we were going to go when (not if, but WHEN) they ("Red" China) dropped the "atom bomb" on New York.

Probably my first outer-world memory that didn't come second-hand from my parents was a "Gemini 4 In Orbit" newsstory-- part of a collage I put together for a Kindergarten class project. That was either late '64 or early '65.

I do seem to also vaguely recall seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in '64, but I'm not certain if I actually remember it, or just that I've heard it talked about so many times over the years that I just imagine that I do.

My first two outer-world memories not coming second-hand (but a few WERE still coming second-hand even then and later) were:
1) Hearing Bush say "Read my lips... no new taxes!" on the TV (and then I asked my parents about lip-reading) - most likely summer or fall 1988
2) Seeing the headline that proclaimed, "Bush won... who lost?" (not sure about punctuation; day after election day, 1988)

On 2002-05-20 11:08, Mark Y wrote:
Well, a lot of one's early childhood memories of events come from how they impacted their families. For instance, you say you don't remember the racial situation when you were a kid. I may be wrong, but Michigan was NOT Alabama or Mississippi (although they went for Wallace in the '72 primary).

From my understanding, there was a race riot in Detroit and there were a lot of homes that went up in flames due to it. The Michigan National Guard was called out to protect the citizens. That is what my boss remembers is the national guard's tanks rolling down the street. The riots went as far north as Flint where I lived but were smaller in scale. My boss lived about a mile from me inside the city limits.

As far as I know, they used to segregate buses in Michigan and blacks were forced to sit at the back of the bus. I am also told racial tensions were quite high in the state.

And Vietnam...if you had an older sibling who was in service at the time, it can really hit home, even at a very young age. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a number of mid to late sixties cohorts (albeit not that many)who had an older sibling in Vietnam that remember the grief of those times.

My brother-in-law served in 'Nam in 1967 and my sister lived with us while he was away. I remember my nephew playing in his play pen in the side yard. When he came home from Nam, he brought with him a box of fireworks which shot off one fourth of July.

My earliest memory is of breaking my leg when I was four. I remember bits and pieces of stuff after that. I recall my brother living with us and he got married in 1965 or 1966 and moved out.

The only thing I recall of the "high" is a brief visit to the south when I was six in 1968 or 1969. We visited my aunt who lived in West Plains MO. I remember visiting my uncle at his barber shop and the feeling that it was like Mayberry in the TV show. I suppose the south was a bit slower to enter the Awakening than the north was.

Will

wrstrutts,you underestimate the impact of outside cultural influences on young forming minds,just because you don't remember the sixties doesn't mean others your age don't,i've been lurking here for awhile and remember you stating definitively something to the effect that people our age (jonesers)dont remember, werent influenced significantly by the sixties and then cited your personal experiences in a way that suggested you thought your experiences were universal but thats not my experience of it, my impression is that people our age were often very affected by the sixties, in part because they were so dramatic, i was born in 57 and remember the jfk assasination, beatles on ed sullivan, 68 prez election, 68 assasinations, summer of love, and much else from then, more importantly not only do i remeber the events but i also remember being very affected by them, most of my friends in elementary school thought the anti-war demonstrations and hippes and all that was very very cool and wanted to be a part of it and tried to hang out with our older siblings who didnt really want us hangin round which is part of the difference between boomers and jonesers, that is that they were participants in the sixties while jonesers were merely observers, they were on the field playing while we were on the sidelines, its the difference between creating and being created by, and thats a helluva big difference, even my younger brother, born in 63, has many vivid memeories of the sixties, particularly of 68, man that kid actually followed the prez campaign that year and cried when mlk was killed because he couldn't understand why some whites hated blacks and he felt sorry fro mlks children, the sixties zeitgeist was extraordinarily powerful on those who were around at the time, and is part of what distinguishes jonesers from xers who born from the midtolate sixties on never had that sixties thang put into them, so there isnt an idealism beneath their cynicism like there is for jonesers, i guess the main thing im trying to say is that all of us need to be careful to not generalize too much from our own personal experiences, my friends and siblings and i just represent one part of the equation and no more but that goes for all of us, even tho it is natural for all of us to assume our experiences are common

On 2002-05-20 17:45, doug57 wrote:
wrstrutts,you underestimate the impact of outside cultural influences on young forming minds,just because you don't remember the sixties doesn't mean others your age don't,i've been lurking here for awhile and remember you stating definitively something to the effect that people our age (jonesers)dont remember, werent influenced significantly by the sixties and then cited your personal experiences in a way that suggested you thought your experiences were universal but thats not my experience of it, my impression is that people our age were often very affected by the sixties, in part because they were so dramatic, i was born in 57 and remember the jfk assasination, beatles on ed sullivan, 68 prez election, 68 assasinations, summer of love, and much else from then, more importantly not only do i remeber the events but i also remember being very affected by them, most of my friends in elementary school thought the anti-war demonstrations and hippes and all that was very very cool and wanted to be a part of it and tried to hang out with our older siblings who didnt really want us hangin round which is part of the difference between boomers and jonesers, that is that they were participants in the sixties while jonesers were merely observers, they were on the field playing while we were on the sidelines, its the difference between

snip

I am NOT A JONSER.

Will

On 2002-05-20 18:19, wrstrutts wrote:

On 2002-05-20 17:45, doug57 wrote:
wrstrutts,you underestimate the impact of outside cultural influences on young forming minds,just because you don't remember the sixties doesn't mean others your age don't,i've been lurking here for awhile and remember you stating definitively something to the effect that people our age (jonesers)dont remember, werent influenced significantly by the sixties and then cited your personal experiences in a way that suggested you thought your experiences were universal but thats not my experience of it, my impression is that people our age were often very affected by the sixties, in part because they were so dramatic, i was born in 57 and remember the jfk assasination, beatles on ed sullivan, 68 prez election, 68 assasinations, summer of love, and much else from then, more importantly not only do i remeber the events but i also remember being very affected by them, most of my friends in elementary school thought the anti-war demonstrations and hippes and all that was very very cool and wanted to be a part of it and tried to hang out with our older siblings who didnt really want us hangin round which is part of the difference between boomers and jonesers, that is that they were participants in the sixties while jonesers were merely observers, they were on the field playing while we were on the sidelines, its the difference between

snip

I am NOT A JONSER.

Will

1962 seems to be in Kiff's 1961-1964 range (consisting of large numbers of both Jonesers and Xers)

On 2002-05-20 18:21, mmailliw wrote:

On 2002-05-20 18:19, wrstrutts wrote:

I am NOT A JONSER.

Will

1962 seems to be in Kiff's 1961-1964 range (consisting of large numbers of both Jonesers and Xers)

You mean my self-described Generation Limbo? :smile:

Heck, if Will doesn't consider himself a Joneser, s'okay with me. :smile:

On 2002-05-20 18:31, Kiff '61 wrote:

On 2002-05-20 18:21, mmailliw wrote:

On 2002-05-20 18:19, wrstrutts wrote:

I am NOT A JONSER.

Will

1962 seems to be in Kiff's 1961-1964 range (consisting of large numbers of both Jonesers and Xers)

You mean my self-described Generation Limbo? :smile:

Heck, if Will doesn't consider himself a Joneser, s'okay with me. :smile:

yeah... you do the limbo while i get stuck in peanut butter :smile:

On 2002-05-20 18:33, mmailliw wrote:

yeah... you do the limbo while i get stuck in peanut butter :smile:

Skippy, Jif, or Peter Pan? :smile:

Since my husband is horribly allergic to peanuts, I haven't bought peanut butter in years. Are these brands still on the shelves?

Mark Y, William, Wstrutts,

Vietnam also had a lasting impact after the war was over. For example, my friends were two twin girls born in August 1980, and their father was a Vietnam vet who never quite got over it and who's problems due to it kind of tore the family apart and impacted thos ekids for the rest of their lives.
My aunts brother was killed in Vietnam, Vietnam all around my parents generation was a hush hush word they didnt want to hear or explain.
Also, theres a new generation rising in the NAACP. This generation is described as being born in the 1960s and therefore kind of stepping from the work that was done while they were too little to remember (alot of them were born in the late 60s, went to college in the late 80s etc.)
As for Mr 1959 Im impressed you can remember stuff from 1961. I can remember a few things from 1981. Im sure those really early blurry memories are from 1981. I remember when my cousin who was born in 1981 didn't exist.
Anyway..cool stories everybody.
Ty.

On 2002-05-20 18:40, Kiff '61 wrote:

On 2002-05-20 18:33, mmailliw wrote:

yeah... you do the limbo while i get stuck in peanut butter :smile:

Skippy, Jif, or Peter Pan? :smile:

Since my husband is horribly allergic to peanuts, I haven't bought peanut butter in years. Are these brands still on the shelves?

lol... the same peanut butter from that anne t. quote i brought to the millennialxers thread; probably all three - i don't like it either but i remember all 3 existed in the late 80s and early 90s (especially "the answer is no" for jif)

[quote]
On 2002-05-20 17:45, doug57 wrote:
wrstrutts,you underestimate the impact of outside cultural influences on young forming minds,just because you don't remember the sixties doesn't mean others your age don't,i've been lurking here for awhile and remember you stating definitively something to the effect that people our age (jonesers)dont remember, werent influenced significantly by the sixties {/quote]

Dude, you're not my age. You are at least five years older than me. I was born in Sep of 1962.

in part because they were so dramatic, i was born in 57 and remember the jfk assasination, beatles on ed sullivan, 68 prez election, 68 assasinations, summer of love, and much else from then, more importantly not only do i remeber the events but i also remember being very affected by them, most of my friends in elementary school thought the anti-war demonstrations and hippes and all that was very very cool and wanted to be a part of it and tried to hang out with our older siblings who didnt really want us hangin round which is part of the difference between boomers and jonesers

So now I am suppose to identify with the JFK assassination which happened when I was still in diapers. I thought hippies were weird and did not want to grow up to be one of them. My boomer siblings were 13 to 19 years older than me and were adults when all of this happened. I did hang out with them but as a child with an adult. They were second parents to me.

, that is that they were participants in the sixties while jonesers were merely observers,

My siblings and parents weren't part of the counter culture. My dad was a GI and my mom a silent. My older siblings were not involved in the peace movement or anything radical. My youngest sister was a hippie and dressed the part. She now denies that she was. She used to be into flourescent paintings and black lights and it was kinda cool visiting her room with it all decked out like that. However, they were much too old for me to hang out with in a peer-to-peer relationship.

<snip>sixties zeitgeist was extraordinarily powerful on those who were around at the time,

Again you generalize to the extent that you accuse me of. I did not experience the 60's that way.

and is part of what distinguishes jonesers from xers who born from the midtolate sixties on never had that sixties thang put into them, so there isnt an idealism beneath their cynicism like there is for jonesers, i guess the main thing im trying to say is that all of us need to be careful to not generalize too much from our own personal experiences, my friends and siblings and i just represent one part of the equation and no more but that goes for all of us, even tho it is natural for all of us to assume our experiences are common

I need remind you all that the concept of a generation is a generalization. It is not an exact science with hard lines and definitive characteristics. People are affected by their peers, their own inate personality, their birth order and many other things. A person need not be super cynical to be a Gen Xer. It is an outlook on life and that outlook affects ones expectations. That is what distinguishes Gen X from Boomer etc. The boomer has a more positive outlook on life and a Gen Xer has a more pragmatic outlook that may be laced with cynicism. S&H outlined general characteristics of a generational cohort and they also mention that not all members of a generation may have those characteristics to the same extent. I may be more cynical than another person born two days before me but it has a lot to do with a lot of factors. A big factor in my life has been that I am a second family to my parents and seperate from my four boomer siblings. I was raised seperately with different outlook and expectations. I went throught a different educational system than my siblings who complained about that "new math" when they attempted to help me with my homework. There are so many other things that affect the way we are and who we are. Generations are a cool concept but they are not the only way that we are affected by our society.

Will

On 2002-05-20 18:33, mmailliw wrote:

yeah... you do the limbo while i get stuck in peanut butter :smile:

OK, I gotta know. What the **** is this Peanut Butter generation business? If you can look someone in they eye, say, "I am of the Peanut Butter generation," and keep a straight face, then you are more man than I am.

On 2002-05-20 19:00, Stonewall Patton wrote:

On 2002-05-20 18:33, mmailliw wrote:

yeah... you do the limbo while i get stuck in peanut butter :smile:

OK, I gotta know. What the **** is this Peanut Butter generation business? If you can look someone in they eye, say, "I am of the Peanut Butter generation," and keep a straight face, then you are more man than I am.

Do I need to copy the Peanut Butter quote into this thread too? All right... here goes:
http://www.fourthturning.com/forums/...ic=447&forum=7 is the link and
"Let's say you didn't like the moniker "GI Generation", so you decided to call them instead the "Peanut Butter Generation", and you also suggested shifting the birth year boundaries a couple years either way. Then you say the difference between the GI Generation and the Peanut Butter Generation is that the GI's respond to a Pepsi ad one way and the Peanut Butters respond to the ad in a different way. But it's the same generation, regardless of what you call them! The truth is that every generation has many individual differences within, so some GI's will respond to ads differently than other GI's, and some Jonesers will respond differently than other Jonesers. Calling them Busters or Peanut Butters doesn't make them a different generation! Stonewall Patton, per your question, you won't find any research being done about this generation where they are called "Busters" because there isn't any. There is one--and only one--person(Anthony) who uses the name "Busters" for this generation between the Boomers and Xers. By contrast, the name "Generation Jones" actually does have a following, in fact quite a big national following with hundreds of newspapers, numerous magazines and books, University courses, many luminaries, including even President Bush, and thousands, if not millions of everyday Americans using the term Generation Jones to describe this heretofore "lost" generation between Boom and X."
Peanut Butter Generation was used here as a cheezy alternative to the LAST civic generation; therefore I use it here self-deprecatingly to describe the early and mid 80s years that most people consider part of THIS civic generation

William:

That name was chosen at random in the post. The writer could just as well have named a Ketchup generation. It does not pretend to relate in any way to the generation which it describes. Why use it? And again, can you keep a straight face when saying it?

On 2002-05-20 19:12, Stonewall Patton wrote:
William:

That name was chosen at random in the post. The writer could just as well have named a Ketchup generation. It does not pretend to relate in any way to the generation which it describes. Why use it? And again, can you keep a straight face when saying it?

yeah... what's so bad about randomnity? and anyway can you think of any BETTER names that also convey my belief that those people are neither true Xers nor true Millies?

I can keep a straight face... SOME of the time :smile:

_________________
William '84

Not only was I born in 1984, but I even live in Room 101!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mmailliw on 2002-05-20 19:15 ]</font>

William is referring to his 1981-1985ish peers. He has gone through puberty and had a hard time seeing himself in the same gen as those kids that camp out for the next Harry Potter book. Than again my best friend born in 1980 loves Harry Potter. She is an Xer to the core, even if she wont admit it.
Its funny how just a few years can make a difference. Like some of my best friends are born in 1976, and they seem a bit more experienced and more independent, but compared to people born in 1984, the 1976ers seem way closer. Do you like how I use the word "way".
I don't mean to. I guess I am Spicoli. :lol:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ty Webb on 2002-05-20 19:19 ]</font>

On 2002-05-20 19:15, Ty Webb wrote:
William is referring to his 1981-1985ish peers. He has gone through puberty and had a hard time seeing himself in the same gen as those kids that camp out for the next Harry Potter book. Than again my best friend born in 1980 loves Harry Potter. She is an Xer to the core, even if she wont admit it.

It seems like people born 75-85 who like the book view Harry Potter one way (seeing more deeply into it) and those born around 89 or so view it another (cultish, superficial obsession) - and I DO have a hard time seeing myself in the same gen as those born in 89 or 94 (anyone who actually knows people born around 90, help me out here!)

Its funny how just a few years can make a difference. Like some of my best friends are born in 1976, and they seem a bit more experienced and more independent, but compared to people born in 1984, that seems like a way bigger gap.

Probably about the same size as the one between 84 and 88... call us "children of the early 90s", "generation y", even "millennial" or "peanut butter"; we're not the same gen as people born in the 70s OR people born around 1990

On 2002-05-20 19:21, mmailliw wrote:

It seems like people born 75-85 who like the book view Harry Potter one way (seeing more deeply into it) and those born around 89 or so view it another (cultish, superficial obsession) - and I DO have a hard time seeing myself in the same gen as those born in 89 or 94 (anyone who actually knows people born around 90, help me out here!)

William, my kids are '91 and '94 cohorts and they both love Harry Potter (my 7-year-old boy has read the first two and is about halfway through the third).

It was Pokemon before it was Harry Potter.

I'm not sure this is a generational thing. It may be more developmental. These kids are "tweens." They have a lot of growing up to do. Of course they're not going to read very deeply into the books. They haven't quite reached the level of abstract thinking that older teens have.

But just wait.... :smile:

I can't believe Harry potter is an issue.
Son, you are post-Teddy Ruxpin. They made cute toys for you too.

As for the end of X, Christina Ricci is filling out that role rather well on Ally McBeal, and she was born in 1980. I'd say 80 is the last year and 81 is the first of the new Gen. Just my opinion.

On 2002-05-20 19:32, Ty Webb wrote:
I can't believe Harry potter is an issue.
Son, you are post-Teddy Ruxpin. They made cute toys for you too.

http://www.cabbagepatchkids.com/page...ilestones.html
Cute 80s toy designed in part for people born in the mid to late seventies and ON many "child of the eighties" lists... and no, that's not a "random internet site" but the OFFICIAL cabbage patch kids site! so what's your point about the cute toys?

On 2002-05-20 19:27, Kiff '61 wrote:

On 2002-05-20 19:21, mmailliw wrote:

It seems like people born 75-85 who like the book view Harry Potter one way (seeing more deeply into it) and those born around 89 or so view it another (cultish, superficial obsession) - and I DO have a hard time seeing myself in the same gen as those born in 89 or 94 (anyone who actually knows people born around 90, help me out here!)

William, my kids are '91 and '94 cohorts and they both love Harry Potter (my 7-year-old boy has read the first two and is about halfway through the third).

It was Pokemon before it was Harry Potter.

I'm not sure this is a generational thing. It may be more developmental. These kids are "tweens." They have a lot of growing up to do. Of course they're not going to read very deeply into the books. They haven't quite reached the level of abstract thinking that older teens have.

But just wait.... :smile:

I'll wait and see just HOW different they turn out from 84 cohorts :smile: and FWIW 11 is the age where people, on average, begin to reason abstractly

_________________
William '84

Not only was I born in 1984, but I even live in Room 101!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: mmailliw on 2002-05-20 20:09 ]</font>

On 2002-05-20 20:21, Xer of Evil wrote:
How about calling early Xers the "Nutter Butter" generation?

XoE

okay... 61-66 = Nutter Butter
81-86 = Nutty Buddy
:smile: that works

Mill,
Thats right. Christ, everytime somebody says something you do an Internet search. One thing I learned in college and especially in DC is that information can be manufactured, twisted, and used at every occasion to support any hypothesis you wish. Take it from someone who lived two blocks from K Street. I have a great picture of my cousins born 1974 to 81 sitting with cabbage Patch kids in hands at Xmas 1983/4. :smile:
So now my question is, milliam, whats your point???
Maybe you can do an Internet search and tel us what you find.

Ty,