My father was born in 1943 and I'll be the first to tell you that he's not in the Boom...or at least doesn't act like he's in the Boom. But, I do think he would be in a subgen lasting from 1940 to 1945, since many of the young icons and major players of the 'sixties come from that era. However, I would not consider them being in the Boom per se since they came of age during the High, and therefore grew up in a completely different environment (pre 1964). They tend to be more conservative, less techno-savvy (but who is technosavvy when compared to those Y kids), and more narcissistic than people born in the Boom. However, it is also a group of "leaders" of the Boom gen (Dylan, Beatles, etc).

On 2002-06-17 20:29, Donna Sherman wrote:
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, guys, but I was born in 1964 and don't find it at all hard to identify with Xers born up till 1980 or so.

I worked with HS students in the early 90's and loved it when grunge came out and they were all in the mosh pits. I woulda been there too, if I hadn'ta been trying to eek a living out of the economic mess of the late eighties early nineties. At that point, even older Xers like myself had trouble fitting into the Boomer/Silent work world - we identified more with the kids!

And if you younger Xers think you can't identify with us older ones, wait a few years and come to one of our retro 80's punk rock new wave extravaganzas . . . I think you'll fit right in!

:smile:

You go girl! :smile:

On 2002-06-18 00:00, Kevin Parker '59 wrote:

On 2002-06-17 20:48, Agent 24601984 wrote:
I can agree with 1925 as the first Silent year, I can agree with 1960/61 as the Boom/X shift, and I can even see either 80/81 (start of my wave) or 81/82 (C2K) as the start of the Millies; however I just canNOT agree with 1943 being placed in the Boom (maybe the classification of 1943 is the ultimate litmus test as to whether one agrees with S&H or not?)

If we surveyed 100 people born in 1943 and asked them "Do you consider themselves as part of the same generation as people born in 1960?" you'd likely get a lot more laughter than yesses; same if you switched the two years

Interesting, when i think about it. I have a cousin 12 years older than I am, born December 31, 1947. He is about the oldest person i can think of that I can clearly identify generationally. Any time before that, it starts to get murky. There are many celebrities of course that were born in the years between 1940 and 1946, but they all seem somewhat larger than life simply because they are famous-- and as such, are difficult for me to identify with anyway.

There is an older gentleman that I work with, whom i just found out is 61 years old, born in late 1940. He is DEFINITELY of a different generation from myself, a total Silent to the core with his gruff, unemotional demeanor and absolute opposition to ANY change that might upset the Nation's (or his own) fragile peace.

So, based on this observation, I'd say that the transition between Silent and Boom generations runs roughly from 1941 through '46. It makes sense that I start to lose generational identity going back from the 1946 cohort-- since I am on the Boomer/Xer cusp I can identify somewhat with core Boomers but not well at all with those born on the Silent cusp. 1942/3 is right at the middle of this transition zone, and is as good a line between the Silent and Boomers as any.

My sisters born in 1945, 1946 and 1949 are definitely preachy boomers. My 1945 and 46 sisters think that they can tell the rest of the family how to live their lives. My 1949 boomer sister is preachy in the fact that she is against drinking, smoking and any form of swearing. She goes to the extreme that if you say "ah shoot" it is still swearing by substitution of words. My 1943 brother is cusper. He identifies with bands from the late silent generation. He is fond of the Beach Boys and the surfer music. My 1942 brother-in-law identifies as a boomer and is pretty opinionated and preachy.

My ex-boss was a last year silent born in 1942 and he is definitely a Silent. He was a very crusty acting dude and reminded me of my Silent Uncles who were born in the late 20's and early 30's. He had a no nonsense attitude about him and could cuss up a storm. I loved working with him. I think Silents and Xers tend to get along real well.
_________________
Will Strutts - Whatever!
B: Sep 1962



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: wrstrutts on 2002-06-18 10:05 ]</font>

How 'bout this for Gens and subgens (note: these are simply based on events during the time that these groups are coming of age (late teens to early 20s); NOT necessarily reflecting events that define their generation):

Gen DOB Defining Event when coming of age
Generation "Y" 1982- "9-11"
Net-Gen 1975-81 Internet Revolution
Generation "X" 1964-74 Reaganism, Gulf War, recession,
Generation Jones 1957-63 Watergate, cynicism
Generation "W" (For G. W. Bush) 1946-56 Sixties movement, Civil Rights, Vietnam
Boom Leaders 1940-45 Little Rock, Sputnik, End of Innocence
Silent Gen 1931-39 Trumanism and Eisenhowerism, The High, Levittown Rebel Without a Cause
Post War 1926-30 End of WWII, Optimism Abounds
Generation "V" (for Victory) 1916-25 European Conflict, WWII
Depression 1910-15 Great Depression
Generation "U" (for Upbeat-later Unemployment) 1900-09 Roaring Twenties
Great War 1894-99 WWI
Generation "T" (for Turn of the Century or Teddy Roosevelt) 1882-93 First years of
20th Century, Optimism, Speak Softly
Imperialistic 1875-81 Spanish-American War, Imperialism
Generation "S" (for Strike) 1862-74 Labor Unions, Haymarket incident
Gilded 1855-61 Gilded Age
Generation "R" (For Rebels and Reconstruction) 1843-54 Civil War, Reconstruction
Reconstruction)

Notice that for the most part, dominant events that shape the culture (Reaganism, Civil Rights movement, Vietnam, WWII, labor issues, Civil War) fall in the full generations, while the bridges tend to have relatively minor events (with perhaps the exceptions of WWI and the Depression).

_________________
Mark Yorsaner '78

Thank goodness for Howe and Strauss...the only ones who don't dump me in the Britney Spears and Barney the Dinosaur Generation

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark Y on 2002-06-18 10:49 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark Y on 2002-06-18 10:51 ]</font>

Hey Reagan had an effect on me. Thats where I first learned not to trust the government.

You can spot a Boomer by that look they get in their eye when they talk about the good old days, beit that Steely Dan concert from 1978, or that peace march from 1965.

Silents tend not to really speak as often as being part of a "generation."
I rarely hear them use the word "generation."

That's right...you never hear much about the Silent Generation. When people talk about gens it's usually either the Greatest Generation or "Talkin' Bout My Generation" Generation, but ntohing in between. It's as though the people born after the last GI's were born and before the Big Boom are non-existant in terms of being defined as a generation (perhaps that's why they're called "Silent"?)

Interesting to note that many of the members of the Who (who wrote "My Generation") were born before the mainstream Boom.

http://www.thewho.net/history/

So isn't it strange that the people singing "Talkin' bout my Generation" are actually talkin' 'bout some OTHER generation and NOT their own according to 99% of the populace?

From today's SF Chronicle:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...8/DD199002.DTL

All final-wave Silents as per the S&H orthodoxy, or does anyone think there are leading wave Boomers on this list.

----------------------------------

They play the song every night as a dedication on oldies radio -- the Beatles' "Birthday." They'll play it tonight
for Paul McCartney, who turns 60 today.

Sixty! As in, "Would you like us to mash that for you?" As in, "You need to go again?"

"You say it's your birthday/ Well, it's my birthday too, yeah," Sir Paul wailed, all those years ago.

Everybody's doing it -- turning 60, that is. Bob Dylan had to lead the way, of course, turning 60 to a mountain of hot air last year.

This year, the list of era-defining icons shuffling toward their senior discount at Sizzler is enough to fog your bifocals. Aretha Franklin, Paul Simon, Carole King -- seemingly every artist who provided the soundtrack for the "Big Chill" generation now needs an extra blanket over the knees.

If you can remember the '60s, the joke goes, you weren't really there. At this point, loss of memory is not a long-term psychedelic side effect. It's just another senior moment.

Beach Boy Brian Wilson makes the leap Thursday. Guess it's time to take the T-Bird away once and for all. He keeps leaving the blinker on.

And he is not the only original beach bum with crow's feet and fallen arches: Also pruning are Sandra Dee ("Gidget") and early Mickey Mouse Club graduate Annette Funicello ("Beach Blanket Bingo").

Barbra Streisand turned 60 on April 24, Lou Reed on March 2, Graham Nash on Feb. 2. Michael Nesmith and Peter Tork are the first two Monkees to join the club. By the time Isaac Hayes gets to Phoenix (Aug. 20), he'll be heading straight for the assisted-living community.

Some of their generational counterparts never even got close. Jimi Hendrix, dead at 27, would have been 60 in November. Jerry Garcia, who died in 1995, would have had more than just a "Touch of Grey" by Aug. 1, when he would have crossed over into true modern maturity.

By comparison, Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin were the whippersnappers of the bunch. They each would have been only 59 this year.

It's Muhammad Ali's 60th year on Earth, and the same goes for authors Erica Jong and John Irving and actors Peter Coyote and Penny Marshall.

Laverne is 60? Next thing you know, Bob Hope will be 100.

"Whoopee! We're all going to die," sang Country Joe McDonald (Jan. 1). It takes on a whole new meaning so many decades removed from 'Nam.

"Will you still need me, will you still feed me/ When I'm sixty-four," McCartney sang when he was a mere 25. He was poking fun at the notion. Now it's only four years away.

Judging by his lively recent concert tour, Sir Paul might do well to set his sights a little higher -- 84, maybe, or 94. Forget Pete Townshend (at a mere 57, what does he know?): A much younger set of musicians, They Might Be Giants, might have put it best when they sang "Hope That I Get Old Before I Die."

--------------------

60th birthday boys and girls

Daniel Barenboim, Nov. 15
Karen Black, July 1
Genevieve Bujold, July 1
Stephen J. Cannell, Feb. 5
Olivia Cole, Nov. 26
Billy Connolly, Nov. 24
Bill Conti, April 13
Kevin Conway, May 29
Peter Coyote, Oct. 10
Michael Crawford, Jan. 19
Michael Crichton, Oct. 23
Sandra Dee, April 23
Roger Ebert, June 18
Michael Eisner, March 7
Linda Evans, Nov. 18
Harrison Ford, July 13
Aretha Franklin, March 25
Annette Funicello, Oct. 22
Scott Glenn, Jan. 26
Gerry Goffin, Feb. 11
Peter Greenaway, April 5
Peter Guber, March 1
Isaac Hayes, Aug. 20
Levon Helm, May 26
Werner Herzog, Sept. 5
Bob Hoskins, Oct. 26
John Irving, March 2
Gemma Jones, Dec. 4
Carole King, Feb. 9
Michele Lee, June 24
Barry Levinson, April 6
Carol Lynley, Feb. 13
Penny Marshall, Oct. 15
Marsha Mason, April 3
Paul McCartney, June 18
Donna McKechnie, Nov. 16
John McLaughlin, Jan. 4
Graham Nash, Feb. 2
Michael Nesmith, Dec. 30
Mike Newell, March 28
Randy Newman, Nov. 28
Wayne Newton, April 3
Barbara Parkins, May 22
Jean-Luc Ponty, Sept. 29
Stefanie Powers, Nov. 2
Lou Reed, March 2
Charlie Rose, Jan. 5
Richard Roundtree, July 9
Buffy Sainte Marie, Feb. 20
Chris Sarandon, July 24
Martin Scorsese, Nov. 17
Paul Simon, Nov. 5
Kurtwood Smith, July 3
David Steinberg, Aug. 9
David Ogden Stiers, Oct. 31
Richard Stoltzman, July 12
Barbra Streisand, April 24
Susan Sullivan, Nov. 18
Fred Ward, Dec. 30
Brian Wilson, June 20
Michael York, March 27
Susannah York, Jan. 9

(I would add Jerry Garcia, 8/1/42-8/9/95)

All this buzz over 60 means that we are definitely at that leading wave of Boom if not near it.
Welcome to old age.

On 2002-06-18 12:04, Mark Y wrote:
Interesting to note that many of the members of the Who (who wrote "My Generation") were born before the mainstream Boom.

http://www.thewho.net/history/

So isn't it strange that the people singing "Talkin' bout my Generation" are actually talkin' 'bout some OTHER generation and NOT their own according to 99% of the populace?

The same could be said of the Beatles, the only member of which that was an S&H Boomer was George Harrison.

On 2002-06-19 10:01, Kevin Parker '59 wrote:

On 2002-06-18 12:04, Mark Y wrote:
Interesting to note that many of the members of the Who (who wrote "My Generation") were born before the mainstream Boom.

http://www.thewho.net/history/

So isn't it strange that the people singing "Talkin' bout my Generation" are actually talkin' 'bout some OTHER generation and NOT their own according to 99% of the populace?

The same could be said of the Beatles, the only member of which that was an S&H Boomer was George Harrison.

Awhile back I saw a John Lennon special, on VH1 I think it was, and he repeatedly referred to "my generation" in one of the interview segments. One can be pretty sure that he was not referring to 1925-42.

Pete Townshend was born in 1945. I believe Daltery and Entwhistle were 44, and Moon was 48.

That aside, NOBODY made a big deal when Ringo turned 60 in August 2000.
I had another professor born in 40 or 41 and he was definitly from that George Carlin late-Silent generation.
So was Lou reed..these guys were 50s teens, way into doo wop and such things.
Does being a greaser or doo wop singer in 1958 make you Boom material?

I think the end of every Generation has the seeds of the next in it.
I bet there are a ton of 1980 kids that may go Millennial.
But when Britney turns 30..it will be big flashing signs to all Millies.


I think this, by the end of this decade (2010), all Xers will be in their 30s and 40s...and all Boomers will be in their 50s and 60s.

There will be a rush of Boom hits 60 things in a few years, as well as Xrs turning 40, which you are just starting to see.

As usual the last wavers will slip in just in time but without much fanfare.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Justin on 2002-06-19 13:58 ]</font>

On 2002-06-19 11:32, exnewager '59 wrote:

On 2002-06-19 10:01, Kevin Parker '59 wrote:

On 2002-06-18 12:04, Mark Y wrote:
Interesting to note that many of the members of the Who (who wrote "My Generation") were born before the mainstream Boom.

http://www.thewho.net/history/

So isn't it strange that the people singing "Talkin' bout my Generation" are actually talkin' 'bout some OTHER generation and NOT their own according to 99% of the populace?

The same could be said of the Beatles, the only member of which that was an S&H Boomer was George Harrison.

Awhile back I saw a John Lennon special, on VH1 I think it was, and he repeatedly referred to "my generation" in one of the interview segments. One can be pretty sure that he was not referring to 1925-42.

I'd say that he was referring to 39-45 (as in the Silents who inspired the Boomers)

Its hard to tell.
I mean Pete Townshend was definitely a Boomer as far as Im concerned. Many of my folks friends were born in 1945.
Lennon may have been talking about "The Sixties Generation" which encompassed Silents like Abbie Hoffman and Bobby Seale, and Boomers like, well its hard to think of Boomer leaders.
Boomers were more like the sheep. The kids coming of age.
I wonder if John thought his wife Yoko Ono (born in 1933) was in a different generation.

On 2002-06-19 15:44, Justin wrote:
Its hard to tell.
I mean Pete Townshend was definitely a Boomer as far as Im concerned. Many of my folks friends were born in 1945.
Lennon may have been talking about "The Sixties Generation" which encompassed Silents like Abbie Hoffman and Bobby Seale, and Boomers like, well its hard to think of Boomer leaders.
Boomers were more like the sheep. The kids coming of age.
I wonder if John thought his wife Yoko Ono (born in 1933) was in a different generation.

Most of the really important radical leaders of the Sixties and the trendsetters were Silents, not Boomers. So you're right Justin, Boomers are more like the sheep. So why do they get all the credit and the Silents ignored? Perhaps because they had one thing Silents did not have: numbers. Their sheer numbers made them seem more dangerous and/or influential than they really were.

In fact, Barbara '31 mentioned in several posts about how Boomers wree really Silent followers, not leaders at all.

The Boomers were more militant. For example I bet all of the Symbionese Army people that kidnapped Patty Hearst were Boomers.
Mumia Abu Jamal is a Boomer (1954). People like David Koresh (1959) round off that generation quite nicely.
Perhaps the thing to look for is the shift from kind of a cynicism to a prophetic nature.
You also have to think about coming of age.
Coming of age pretty much means reaching 20,21 in a given time period.
So while years like 1960 or 61 were ripe with change, the election of the first GI president, trips to space, a growing intensity in the Civil Rights Movement, were they High years or Awakened years?

A prophet cannot remember the 4T. A prophet in most part "comes of age" in a 2T.
If you were like John Lennon, and had a child in 1963 named Julian, chances are you are not really part of the American "Boom" generation. Like many Silents Lennon gave up his first family to start a newer, new Age-ier family with Yoko. That is a Silent thing to do.
A Boomer would have matured in Midlife (which is not applicable here) into a preachier, family values type (see the Gore family).
Someone like Dylan clearly went the way of Willie Nelson. I think he is an artist. And I bet he has a funny thing to say about generations.

It must have been funny to see the difference say between a young Who and people like the Every Brothers, only years apart.

I always thought the class of 1960 was special (and we aren't Boomers).

Pax,

Dave Krein 4/14/42

"Awhile back I saw a John Lennon special, on VH1 I think it was, and he repeatedly referred to "my generation" in one of the interview segments. One can be pretty sure that he was not referring to 1925-42." --exnewager '59


This statement, folks, is the very epitome of typical Baby Boomer ignorance, arrogance and conceit. And the very reason I, at times, despise being a part of this utterly worthless generation.

On 2002-06-19 18:27, Marc Lamb wrote:


"Awhile back I saw a John Lennon special, on VH1 I think it was, and he repeatedly referred to "my generation" in one of the interview segments. One can be pretty sure that he was not referring to 1925-42." --exnewager '59


This statement, folks, is the very epitome of typical Baby Boomer ignorance, arrogance and conceit. And the very reason I, at times, despise being a part of this utterly worthless generation.

Didn't he also say "we [the Beatles] are more popular than Jesus"? If that doesn't summarize the Boomer mindset, nothing does. But John himself was a Silent. Go figure.

Justin, you're right again. Boomers may have been followers rather than leaders, but were much more militant than Silents. Silents went about fulfilling their ideals in a peaceful, diplomatic way. Civil rights provides a great example of the transition from Silent peacefulness to Boomer militarism. Think Martin Luther King Jr. and the civilized marches of the 1960s. When Boomers came of age, they took over these Silent ideals and turned them militant. Think Malcolm X and his Black Panthers.

_________________
All of life is an illusion. The only reality is how you interpret the illusion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Heliotrope on 2002-06-19 18:54 ]</font>

"When Boomers came of age, they took over these Silent ideals and turned them militant. Think Malcolm X and his Black Panthers."

Uh, Malcolm X was born Malcolm Little on May 19, 1925 in Omaha, Nebraska. The founder of the Black Panthers was Huey Newton, also a Silent.

The Boomer myth rolls on!

Brother Huey was born in 1942. Brother bobby in 1936. Brother Eldridge in 1935.
The revolution has come. its time to pick up the gun.
However, these fellows were around many years before the Awakening. I think Bobby was the most prophetic of them all.
S and H aren't that anal.
They know that there is blurring. They consider Berkeley free speech leader mario Savio a *prophet, meaning a *1942, and Britney Spears a *1981 Millennial.

As for John, was that Boomer arrogance or Silent cynicism. Carlin might have said the same thing in a similar position...and guys remember..John Lennon was one man.
I have a strong feeling the class of 1958 remembered WWII well, and were Silents.
When you get to 1942-43 thats the leading edge. Some like Dave Krein may not identify, others will.
There is something special about the class of 1960. I liken them to the class of 1999...notable for producing notable Americans.

Well, first of all I don't think the 1946-64 definition "baby boom" was defined in the 'sixties...I might be mistaken though.

When was Baby Boom first used?

I'm pretty sure that people were aware of the Boomers in the 60s, and even in the 50s.
When the elementary schools and junior high schools started filling up dramatically people began to see the kids as a generation undergoing similar experiences.
Imagine what my school district is going through now. They've had to enlarge my high school, a high school that held all the students from 1967 to 2000 until there just were too many kids.
At my Moms high school in 1962-65 they had rotating shifts to accomodate all the students.
So I think people were aware of the Boom in the late 40s and 50s. I mean they must have picked up the name "Baby Boom" while they were quite young.

On 2002-06-20 09:15, Mark Y wrote:
Well, first of all I don't think the 1946-64 definition "baby boom" was defined in the 'sixties...I might be mistaken though.

When was Baby Boom first used?

It was called that as far back as I can remember except when I was young they had test to see if you were a boomer. For instance, "do you recall where and what you were dong when JFK got shot?" That is the definition I had of it as a young child in the 70's.

On 2002-06-20 16:10, wrstrutts wrote:

On 2002-06-20 09:15, Mark Y wrote:
Well, first of all I don't think the 1946-64 definition "baby boom" was defined in the 'sixties...I might be mistaken though.

When was Baby Boom first used?

It was called that as far back as I can remember except when I was young they had test to see if you were a boomer. For instance, "do you recall where and what you were dong when JFK got shot?" That is the definition I had of it as a young child in the 70's.

They used both THAT as a test AND a 1964 end date? uhh... "I was a fetus in my mom's uterus and I was lazing around as usual."