Originally Posted by TimWalker

Perhaps heroic Millies will tow icebergs from Antarctica to Los Angeles. But they will have to time their arrival to avoid the hurricane season.

Cold currents off the coast of California make hurricanes impossible there.

...Antarctic icebergs will probably supply drinking and garden water to such semi-deserts as Southern California or the Cape of South Africa and some places in or near the coastlines of some tropical deserts (Mecca-Jiddah, Mogadishu, Kuwait, Karachi, and much of Australia.

...or maybe they will find some way to pump floodwater from the Mississippi and Red River (the border between Minnesota and North Dakota -- not Texas and Oklahoma!) to recharge the fast-depleting Oglalla Aquifer so that the High Plains don't become the Great "Texahara" Desert.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Cold currents off the coast of California make hurricanes impossible there.

...Antarctic icebergs will probably supply drinking and garden water to such semi-deserts as Southern California or the Cape of South Africa and some places in or near the coastlines of some tropical deserts (Mecca-Jiddah, Mogadishu, Kuwait, Karachi, and much of Australia.

...or maybe they will find some way to pump floodwater from the Mississippi and Red River (the border between Minnesota and North Dakota -- not Texas and Oklahoma!) to recharge the fast-depleting Oglalla Aquifer so that the High Plains don't become the Great "Texahara" Desert.

San Diego was hit by a hurricane during the 19th century.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

San Diego was hit by a hurricane during the 19th century.

But that is very rare, and such a storm would be a dying one, anyway because the water is too cold.

If we should somehow avoid a major new war, perhaps this 4T will characterized by massive efforts to solve resource shortages. Energy and water come to mind. That, and dealing with urgent aspects of security/defense, crumbling infrastructure, and environmental problems.

Actually Baja California gets hit by hurricaines on a fairly regular basis. In fact, I've read in more than one book before that if you want to have a pleasent visit to Cabo San Lucas don't go during the month of September.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Actually Baja California gets hit by hurricaines on a fairly regular basis. In fact, I've read in more than one book before that if you want to have a pleasent visit to Cabo San Lucas don't go during the month of September.

Baja California isn't Alta California, but you knew that.

Originally Posted by Odin

Baja California isn't Alta California, but you knew that.

But the iceberg laden ships can not reach alta without passing through the hurricane alley A/K/A baja first.

Wasted ice melting in tropical ocean water and disrupting the warm water fish populations is not a good thing.
I just can't see Antarctica being a solution for northern hemisphere water problems.

Now the water needs of Antarctica's dry neighbor Australia, that's a lot easier and less risky environmentally.
I can see that one happening.:

These floods are mainly due to global warming, and people farming and living too close to the water.

If Te EVIL govamint restrained the oil companies and invested in green energy, global warming would gradually diminish. I agree that spillways moving sediment into the Delta might be a good idea. I don't know how you avoid levees as long as people want to live and farm on a flood plain. Since people do that, levees have to be built. If the evil govmint built them, it was because the people there wanted them. It does no good to blame the govamint. If you do that too much, it won't be there for relief when you need it.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

But the iceberg laden ships can not reach alta without passing through the hurricane alley A/K/A baja first.

Wasted ice melting in tropical ocean water and disrupting the warm water fish populations is not a good thing.
I just can't see Antarctica being a solution for northern hemisphere water problems.

Now the water needs of Antarctica's dry neighbor Australia, that's a lot easier and less risky environmentally.
I can see that one happening.:

Taking the icebergs through the 'biological deserts' of plankton-scarce deep tropical oceans (avoiding coral reefs, of course) would do little harm.

Published on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 by CommonDreams.org
Climate Change: Neck Deep in the Big Muddy
by Glenn Scherer
The Mississippi River has risen to levels never seen in U.S. history – lapping levee tops and threatening cities and hamlets from Memphis to the Gulf. Floodwaters cover an area bigger than Connecticut, the result of a record 90 inches of precipitation in the Midwest.

Some would point an accusatory finger at human-caused global warming. But as any climatologist will tell you, no single weather event is attributable to global warming.

Meanwhile, Texas is in flames. It has endured the 7 driest months on record, with drought parching 98 percent of the Lone Star state. No one has ever seen the like of it, with 2.2 million acres already scorched black by wildfires.

Of course, as any Obama administration official will gladly testify, no one weather event can be traced back to climate change.

Out West, record snowpack, a staggering 200 percent above normal, has brought severe flood risks to Utah, Wyoming, and Montana. While eastern Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona are enduring drought and gearing up for an equally severe fire season.

Of course, as any freshman Tea Party Congressman will insist, no one weather event can ever be said to be created by human-caused climate change.

And who can forget last month, when 312 tornadoes smashed the Southeast, with a record-setting 228 twisters spawned in a single day? Some of those killer funnel clouds were a mile wide and stayed on the ground across several states.

Of course, as any Exxon or Koch brothers-funded climate change skeptic will scold you, no one weather event can ever be seen to be the result of human-caused climate change.

Go out in your backyard, stick a thumb up in the air or look at what's blooming today, and you’ll likely know. The times are a changin’ –fast. Your community and mine are hotter, dryer or wetter, with nastier storms than you or your grandparents ever saw.

But… as any Fox News anchor will assert, no single weather event can ever be seen as being the product of human-caused climate change.

But, how about thousands of weather events? Shattered heat records. Drought records. Deluge records. Winters grown milder and shorter. Summers grown longer and brutally hot. Icecaps melting, ice shelves collapsing, glaciers in galloping retreat. It’s exactly what climate modelers began forecasting two decades ago.

Except, the scientists told us then these sorts of catastrophes wouldn’t hammer us until 2050 or later. Hell, Greenland wasn’t supposed to melt significantly until after 2100, but it is melting significantly now. Global coral reefs are dying now, global food harvests are in decline now, and food prices are breaking records now due to changing climate.

Still, we’re a nation with its head in the sand. Worse, like a drug addict whose connection just got popped, we’re sniffing out fossil fuel under every rock; raping the Canadian tar sands; readying drilling platforms in Arctic seas and Gulf deepwater; and turning vast swathes of rural America into a pincushion of drilling rigs fracked for natural gas.

This spring, President Obama even called for an enormous expansion of the dirtiest, most polluting industry of all. Under his plan, new coal mines will increase U.S. climate change emissions by over fifty percent beyond what we’re producing currently.

Damn the risks. We need our energy fix!

Meantime, the Mississippi rolls on. "We've never seen anything like this. I was scared not knowing what's going to happen or where we can go from here," said flood victim Tamara Jenkins of Frayser, Tennessee, talking to CNN.

Well, Ms. Jenkins, you may be neck deep in the Big Muddy and not know what’s going to happen next. But the fossil fuel industry, our president and congress do. They have complete confidence in our business as usual energy policy, and say we should push on.

After all, Ms. Jenkins, every damn fool knows that no single flood of biblical proportions can be attributed to human-caused climate change. Just ask Noah

Glenn Scherer is senior editor of Blue Ridge Press. You can comment at scherer@blueridgepress.com.

RealClimate put up a review of a new book, Changing Planet, Changing Health. It is aimed for a general audience, reviewing the impact of climate change on disease.

Doonesbury is running a string of comics centered on Apocalypse, with a christian claiming that between Judgement Day (Saturday) and the End of Time (October) we are due for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, droughts, eruptions, mudslides, hurricanes, floods and fires. It seems time to observe...

1. No single Apocalyptic event can be taken as a sign of the Apocalypse.
2. Not every Apocalyptic event can be directly attributed to global warming and Big Oil.

Mentioned on PBS' Need to Know tonight, and the author was interviewed. They also interviewed Karen Bartlett, a scientist keeping track of diseases invading North America and causing diseases. She says climate change is definitely that cause of such diseases, including tropical fungi, invading the North and causing more disease. Pretty scary I say. They mentioned heat is a greater killer of Americans than tornadoes, hurricanes and several other factors combined, and that such cities as Chicago are experiencing more deaths as a result of increases heat waves. They are changing roofs and other things to try to prepare.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know...e-change/9457/

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

Doonesbury is running a string of comics centered on Apocalypse, with a christian claiming that between Judgement Day (Saturday) and the End of Time (October) we are due for earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, droughts, eruptions, mudslides, hurricanes, floods and fires. It seems time to observe...

1. No single Apocalyptic event can be taken as a sign of the Apocalypse.
2. Not every Apocalyptic event can be directly attributed to global warming and Big Oil.

This certainly seems to be a time of increasingly dangerous global changes in many ways. Not the "end" or the "rapture," but the beginning of events that we will have to adjust to. This apocalypse prediction gells with that of the onset of 4T, as well as the end of the Mayan calendar, and predictions I and other astrologers have made; as well as those of climate and other scientists, which are likely the most accurate among the forecasters, but not the only ones. The climate change events are coming faster than the scientists predicted; but not faster than I predicted.

Realclimate tells a story of Nobel Laureates Speaking Out, signing a manefsto saying it is time to fight global warming. Of course, there were protestors outside describing the Nobel Laureates as 'green fascists.'

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

This certainly seems to be a time of increasingly dangerous global changes in many ways. Not the "end" or the "rapture," but the beginning of events that we will have to adjust to. This apocalypse prediction gells with that of the onset of 4T, as well as the end of the Mayan calendar, and predictions I and other astrologers have made; as well as those of climate and other scientists, which are likely the most accurate among the forecasters, but not the only ones. The climate change events are coming faster than the scientists predicted; but not faster than I predicted.

Weren't you predicting widespread violence in April? How is that working out for you?

James50

From David Brin's blog: the military is taking climate change and global warming seriously.


"The military is taking climate change seriously. A recent report for Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, said: "We must recognise that security means more than defense” -- urging a strategy of sustainability as climate change is "already shaping a 'new normal' in our strategic environment." The military intends to adapt, as must shipping, insurance, and even oil companies…"

The first sentence was a link in the original. Since it didn't translate, let me cut & paste it from the original:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nge-scepticism

Hey, guys, I thought it was all a dirty radical leftie plot to impose socialism on us etc ... and now the United Stated Armed Services is saying the same thing?

Well, duh, the only one who isn't is Brian Williams at NBC News, who can look around the ruins of Joplin and cry "Why is Mother Nature doing this to us?!?!?" Duh --- for the same reason the house caught fire when you left the space heater burning next to the curtains?

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

From David Brin's blog: the military is taking climate change and global warming seriously...

Yes. The Pentagon has been starting to think this way since the middle of the Bush 43 administration. The security problems are often based on ethnic and religious problems, which are pushed by economic problems, which in turn are caused by resource and ecological problems. I don't see a soft landing unless all of the above is treated as a whole.

I'm wondering if at some point someone will pull the ethnic and religious layer of indirection out of it and see a simple straight forward battle for resources when there are not enough resources.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Well, duh, the only one who isn't is Brian Williams at NBC News, who can look around the ruins of Joplin and cry "Why is Mother Nature doing this to us?!?!?" Duh --- for the same reason the house caught fire when you left the space heater burning next to the curtains?

Ah, but no single apocalyptic event can be said to be a sign of the apocalypse. I'd be interested in seeing a plot of the number of each size of tornado for the last several decades, though.

CNet reports that Japan eyes solar panels on all new buildings

With Japan's continuing problems with power supply resulting from the tsunami crippled nuclear complex, Japan is considering mandating renewables. This might qualify as a 4T style response to a catalyst?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

This certainly seems to be a time of increasingly dangerous global changes in many ways. Not the "end" or the "rapture," but the beginning of events that we will have to adjust to. This apocalypse prediction gells with that of the onset of 4T, as well as the end of the Mayan calendar, and predictions I and other astrologers have made; as well as those of climate and other scientists, which are likely the most accurate among the forecasters, but not the only ones. The climate change events are coming faster than the scientists predicted; but not faster than I predicted.

I have no explanation for all the severe weather we have been having, but does seem to me that the blizzards, floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. we have been having all seem to wind up in the "top 5 worst of their kind". The average death toll due to tornadoes each year is around 50 people. We are up to close to 500 so far this year. I have this sinking feeling when hurricane season hits this summer we will probably hearing about a hurricane which is in the "top 5 worst hurricanes of all time." It just seems to me that we are going through a cycle of severe storms and some kind of climate change. I just don't know what the real reason for it is. But how can anyone deny this is not happening? All you have to do look around you.

On the news and weather channel the explanation they gave for such a high number of deaths due to tornadoes this year is because we have a higher concentration of the population living in these area. I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on that one. The population isn't that much higher in any of these areas than it has been for the 5, 10, 20 or more years. Yet we haven't had that many people dying in recent years. These storms are worse this year...And I do remember being snowbound in my house for a week back in February...and I live in Texas. A place where they don't own snowplows...because we don't need them here! That was proof enough for me that something strange is going on with the weather, and that was before Japan, the Great Flood (that's what they are calling what has happened along the Mississippi), and all these killer tornadoes.

I'm not saying it the end of world, but I think we are in for a very bumpy ride.

Originally Posted by ASB65

I have no explanation for all the severe weather we have been having, but does seem to me that the blizzards, floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. we have been having all seem to wind up in the "top 5 worst of their kind"...

There is an 11 year solar cycle where we are warm for several years then cold for several. Through the late 2000s the sun was getting cooler, thus there was a pause in global warming. Some of the denialists interpreted this as proof that global warming had stopped, while others asserted that the solar cycle would stop, that the pause in the warming would not resume.

We are two years away from the peak warm year of the current solar cycle. The next four years or so, assuming the main line science is correct, ought to be hot. We'll have the peak heat from the sun plus another 11 years of CO2 in the atmosphere over the last peak.

On average, this will mean more storms... hurricanes, tornados, blizzards, thunder, whatnot. Floods might well follow. As weather patterns shift, drought might be possible in places as well.

It is not so obvious that the 11 year solar cycle should trigger earthquakes and tsunami. One might go so far as to say there ought to be no such link. However, as glaciers melt, the weight of one techtonic plate might shift faster than the weight of the next plate over. This could increase the chances of quakes near melting glaciers.

Agreed, not the end of the world, but, sure, a bumpy ride.

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

CNet reports that Japan eyes solar panels on all new buildings

With Japan's continuing problems with power supply resulting from the tsunami crippled nuclear complex, Japan is considering mandating renewables. This might qualify as a 4T style response to a catalyst?

Solar heating for everyone would take a massive burden off the grid, it surely would. And it's a mature technology, unlike some of the other blue-sky solar projects being touted today.

Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

There is an 11 year solar cycle where we are warm for several years then cold for several. Through the late 2000s the sun was getting cooler, thus there was a pause in global warming. Some of the denialists interpreted this as proof that global warming had stopped, while others asserted that the solar cycle would stop, that the pause in the warming would not resume.

We are two years away from the peak warm year of the current solar cycle. The next four years or so, assuming the main line science is correct, ought to be hot. We'll have the peak heat from the sun plus another 11 years of CO2 in the atmosphere over the last peak.

On average, this will mean more storms... hurricanes, tornados, blizzards, thunder, whatnot. Floods might well follow. As weather patterns shift, drought might be possible in places as well.

It is not so obvious that the 11 year solar cycle should trigger earthquakes and tsunami. One might go so far as to say there ought to be no such link. However, as glaciers melt, the weight of one techtonic plate might shift faster than the weight of the next plate over. This could increase the chances of quakes near melting glaciers.

Agreed, not the end of the world, but, sure, a bumpy ride.

No, it's not the end of the world, and surely the solar cycles and any other cycles in the natural world are feeding this. And we're pumping excess heat into an atmosphere that nature's cycles are already messing with. Crazy weather results for sure. Oh, kids, it's not SAFE to mess with Mother Nature.

I've heard there are reports of ANOTHER tornado in the Joplin area, as well as several tornadoes in the Dallas area.

Originally Posted by Odin

I've heard there are reports of ANOTHER tornado in the Joplin area, as well as several tornadoes in the Dallas area.

OH, my God! The best thing FEMA or the Red Cross can do now is send a fleet of tour buses to get everybody and their pets out of the impact area. Those people must be wondering right now if the world really *is* coming to an end.

And, and a curse on builders who put up houses in tornado zones that don't have storm cellars!