It puts Americans on the spot as the most reactionary nation--- again! Thank you Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, John Boehner, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity.....Originally Posted by James50
This is good news.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".
David Bowie on Los Angeles
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
From another blog:
James50So let me get this right. The Canadian Oil is supposedly worse for the environment, so stopping this pipeline will help the planet.
So instead of moving the oil in a safe way and be processed in US refineries operating under EPA regulations, the oil will now be transported across the Canadian Rockies where it will be loaded onto giant tankers and shipped across the Pacific where it will be refined in Chinese operations that have far fewer, if any, regulations in place.
Please let me know how the Chinese alternative is better for the Earth. Because no matter what, this Canadian oil is going to be sold.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
That reminds me a lot of the old argument, "if we don't sell weapons to this tin-horned dictator, the Russians will."
I say, we should keep out of the destruction business; let others do it, until they get tired of it; which it looks like the Chinese are doing.
Oh, and Canada is probably going to sell just as much to China anyway. If the USA doesn't buy this trash, maybe less of it will be sold. The process will be slowed down, giving us a chance to wake up and convert to green energy. Hey, oughtn't we be on about that business?
I am sure people like Eric think the German solar subsidy is a wondrous thing. Never mind the facts. God save us from the idealogues.
Solar Subsidy Sinkhole
James50The Baedeker travel guide is now available in an environmentally-friendly version. The 200-page book, entitled "Germany - Discover Renewable Energy," lists the sights of the solar age: the solar café in Kirchzarten, the solar golf course in Bad Saulgau, the light tower in Solingen and the "Alster Sun" in Hamburg, possibly the largest solar boat in the world.
The only thing that's missing at the moment is sunshine. For weeks now, the 1.1 million solar power systems in Germany have generated almost no electricity. The days are short, the weather is bad and the sky is overcast. As is so often the case in winter, all solar panels more or less stopped generating electricity at the same time. To avert power shortages, Germany currently has to import large amounts of electricity generated at nuclear power plants in France and the Czech Republic. To offset the temporary loss of solar power, grid operator Tennet resorted to an emergency backup plan, powering up an old oil-fired plant in the Austrian city of Graz.
Solar energy has gone from being the great white hope, to an impediment, to a reliable energy supply.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
So we buy the oil from Venezuela instead of Canada. Gee, what's wrong with that?
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
Looks like the debate will begin again *after* the elections.
Obama Administration rejects Keystone oil pipeline
http://my.news.yahoo.com/obama-set-r...192547617.html
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a
You are sure? However did you reach that conclusion.
I AM more than sure; I am proud of Germany for doing such a wondrous thing!!
Now we just need to follow suit, as do all countries. But maybe Germany needs more storage capacity, and more windmills!
So, we stop buying the oil period. What's wrong with that!
Fossil fuels need to go the way of the dodo bird, and fast!
Please sacrifice someone else's country on the altar of fossil fuel correctness.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
So you mean when the sun is not out, we should get our electricity from nuclear and old oil burning plants located in other countries? We already know there is no storage available that will do the job.You are sure? However did you reach that conclusion.
I AM more than sure; I am proud of Germany for doing such a wondrous thing!!
Now we just need to follow suit, as do all countries. But maybe Germany needs more storage capacity, and more windmills!
Remember the left is fact based.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
Pump-back lakes work just fine, and have a huge amount of storage capacity. They also serve as reservoirs and moderate the nearby air temperature. BTW, nukes aren't perfect, but I'll take them over coal anytime.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Let's see, a few examples:
Hooker Chemical Company's Love Canal in Buffalo
The mining company's catastrophe, which continues today in Butte, Montana
The Peabody Coal Company
Rohm & Haas' Building 8 in Philadelphia
Johns Manville .... asbestos ... mesothelioma
The lakeside paper mills of the 1950s and Lake Erie
Plutonium contamination ... Rocky Flats, Colorado
BP/Halliburton
Exxon Valdez
Doesn't it seem like a lot of profit has been "privatized" while a lot of environmental damage has been "socialized?" The short list above is very short. I didn't even have to google ... these came right off the top of my head. If a fairly exhaustive list of environmental disasters were made, how long would it be? And why should our society believe any corporate flack that tells us that they will "put things back" after they've extracted their profits?
How much environment are YOU willing to sacrifice in order to generate a few thousand jobs for a couple years' construction job? You'll probably reply that they won't hurt the environment. Not this time? Not like the thousands of other times? Why not this time?
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."
These lakes barely make a dent. Like all the pipe dreams, they will not scale to meet the task. And never mind, that building a new reservoir takes at least 10 years to permit because of the endless EIS and the resultant lawsuits brought by the environmental groups.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
Perhaps a few facts - a thing the left is always interested in - about a typical pump storage installation would be enlightening. Consider Carter's Lake in Georgia.
So at peak output, this large dam is capable of generating 250 MW. The total generating capacity in the Georgia Power system alone is 16,000 MW. And that is only Georgia Power and does not include the merchant power plants in the state.Carters Dam is an earthen embankment dam located south of Chatsworth in Murray County and west of Ellijay in the U.S. state of Georgia. The dam is 445 ft (136 m) tall and is situated 26.8 miles (43.1 km) above the mouth of the Coosawattee River. The drainage area is 376 square miles (974 km²).[1]
The dam took 15 years to build and was completed in 1977. The area of the primary flood control pool is 3,880 acres (16 km²). The top elevation of the dam is 1,112.3 feet (339 m). The top width of the dam is 40 feet (12.2 m).
The dam has a diversion tunnel that is 2,407 feet (733.7 m). It is a horseshoe shape with a bottom width of 23 feet (7 m) and a maximum height of 23 feet (7 m). The dam is constructed of rock and earth and is the tallest earthen dam east of Mississippi river. The lake is the deepest manmade reservoir east of Mississippi river.
Below the dam is a 1,000 acres (4 km²) retention and re-regulation lake. The hydroelectric plant is of the pumped storage type. That is, during off-peak hours the water from the retention lake is pumped back up into the lake for use in generating power during the next time of peak demand. The dam's power station contains 2 X 125 MW Francis turbines and 2 X 125 MW Francis pump turbines for used in pumped-storage.[2]
The lake is more than 450 feet (137 m) deep and has 62 miles (100 km) of shoreline without any private docks or other development.
Pump storage will never be an adequate provider of grid level storage.
James50
Last edited by James50; 01-19-2012 at 10:59 PM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
Sorry, Tim. Nice list, but these have almost nothing to do with running a pipeline or providing the liquid fuels it takes to run our society.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
The generatin and storage mix will be substantial, but all good things should be used first and the worst things, only when on other choice presents itself. We shouldn't let the good be undermined by demands for perfection, but we should continue to move in the right direction to the fullest extent we can.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Please sacrifice someone else's country on the rock of fossil fuel incorrectness.
I remember; it is you who forgets.
Solar plants have storage capacity; maybe the Germans don't have enough. And there are other renewable sources out there (duh? I already mentioned one).
What saves energy is when solar is working. That is a lot more significant than when someone has to fall back on the older sources for a while.
Common sense, man; come on dude.... While the sun is out, solar replaces the dirty sources.
The longer-term solution is solar plants in the north African desert with cables hooked up to Europe. That plan is in the works, but I don't know how far. Perhaps the Libyan revolution will help speed up the process, though it probably stalled it for a while. Again, I find it hard to believe you haven't heard of this.
I would like to see your factual source for this.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
I'm surprised we haven't seen more of them in this country, particularly as the power grid continues to be strained.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didn´t replace it with nothing but lost faith."
Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY
We already have batteries, but they have significant issues themselves, ranging from gradual loss of energy to environmental issues in their manufacture and disposal. But there are other advances on the horizon as well, as this release from MIT indicates:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/u...rage-0713.html
A novel application of carbon nanotubes, developed by MIT researchers, shows promise as an innovative approach to storing solar energy for use whenever it’s needed.
...
One of the great advantages of the new approach to harnessing solar energy, [MIT professor Jeffrey] Grossman says, is that it simplifies the process by combining energy harvesting and storage into a single step. “You’ve got a material that both converts and stores energy,” he says. “It’s robust, it doesn’t degrade, and it’s cheap.”
See my post above. Its not practical to have enough lakes to make a difference and besides the impact of all these lakes would be unbearable. Keep in mind that pump back storage really requires two lakes. One to act as a source and the other as a re-regulation lake. Its really takes up too much ecological space to be sustainable.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
The one place around here like that uses a river as a source, and it's not all that big either.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didn´t replace it with nothing but lost faith."
Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY
