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Thread: Global Warming - Page 127







Post#3151 at 10-08-2012 07:30 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Why have we seen nothing yet? Are refineries due for more breakdowns? Because oil companies are being squeezed for funds? In what universe?

Did you miss the part about Gov. Brown relaxing the "mandates"? Are you starting to miss things as often as you accuse me of missing? Comeon Copperman, you can do better than that!

No, it's just the speculators that are given free rein by you free market apologists. The facility in Richmond is already repaired or will be in a few days, acc. to local news reports.
Refineries are always due for breakdowns. The problems happen when those refineries have no spare capacity and then break down. Ask Diane why California has no spare refining capacity. I assure you, she is very much aware of the answer.







Post#3152 at 10-09-2012 07:01 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Why have we seen nothing yet? Are refineries due for more breakdowns? Because oil companies are being squeezed for funds? In what universe?

Did you miss the part about Gov. Brown relaxing the "mandates"? Are you starting to miss things as often as you accuse me of missing? Comeon Copperman, you can do better than that!

No, it's just the speculators that are given free rein by you free market apologists. The facility in Richmond is already repaired or will be in a few days, acc. to local news reports.


But why would the speculators think that oil/gas prices will be going up?

Blaming the speculators is like blaming those who bet on the Giants for why the Patriots lost last February's Super Bowl.
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#3153 at 10-09-2012 09:54 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
But why would the speculators think that oil/gas prices will be going up?

Blaming the speculators is like blaming those who bet on the Giants for why the Patriots lost last February's Super Bowl.
Speculators directly affect prices. Gamblers don't change scores ... unless bribery is involved.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#3154 at 10-09-2012 10:11 AM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Speculators directly affect prices. Gamblers don't change scores ... unless bribery is involved.
Financial markets aren't sports as there's no objective criteria to study. Gamblers definitely set the score, and they respond "rationally" to incentives (by rationally, of course, I mean doing whatever they can to advance their perceived self-interest)
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#3155 at 10-09-2012 10:13 AM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
But why would the speculators think that oil/gas prices will be going up?

Blaming the speculators is like blaming those who bet on the Giants for why the Patriots lost last February's Super Bowl.
Because interest rates are low, financial firms have lots of access to cheap cash, and alternative investments aren't attractive. In this analogy, the speculators are the players on the teams and the refs are politicians & regulators on the teams' payrolls.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#3156 at 10-09-2012 01:30 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Financial markets aren't sports as there's no objective criteria to study. Gamblers definitely set the score, and they respond "rationally" to incentives (by rationally, of course, I mean doing whatever they can to advance their perceived self-interest)
Expand on that a bit, if you will. I've been to a few of the big sports books, and the gamblers are trying to get the score, not set it.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#3157 at 10-09-2012 02:09 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Refineries are always due for breakdowns. The problems happen when those refineries have no spare capacity and then break down. Ask Diane why California has no spare refining capacity. I assure you, she is very much aware of the answer.
The speculators are the ones who bid up the price. There is no reason for prices to go up. If there are shortages, then we can't buy as much gas. Why does that mean prices have to go up?

The oil companies have lots of money; they could expand their capacity anytime they want, and they can afford to comply with environmental rules too. And they do:

"Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's. So while we haven't seen new refineries open in new locations, we have virtually added the capacity of 23 of today's average size facilities—and that is nothing to scoff at."

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...city-has-grown

What about all that oil Diane and the rest of us californios get from outside CA? Or have we just not gotten on the ball and built the alternatives yet? Uh huh, that's it. You can blame both Republicans and oil execs for that one.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3158 at 10-09-2012 02:37 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
The speculators are the ones who bid up the price. There is no reason for prices to go up. If there are shortages, then we can't buy as much gas. Why does that mean prices have to go up?

The oil companies have lots of money; they could expand their capacity anytime they want, and they can afford to comply with environmental rules too. And they do:

"Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's. So while we haven't seen new refineries open in new locations, we have virtually added the capacity of 23 of today's average size facilities—and that is nothing to scoff at."

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...city-has-grown.
Ah. You don't know how pricing works. Got it.

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
What about all that oil Diane and the rest of us californios get from outside CA? Or have we just not gotten on the ball and built the alternatives yet? Uh huh, that's it. You can blame both Republicans and oil execs for that one.
Oh no Eric, I blame you and all the other Californians for California's problems. It's your mess. You can clean it up (assuming you first learn how pricing works).







Post#3159 at 10-09-2012 04:29 PM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Oh no Eric, I blame you and all the other Californians for California's problems. It's your mess. You can clean it up (assuming you first learn how pricing works).
Given how little contact he has had with reality this seems extremely unlikely.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#3160 at 10-09-2012 06:11 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Expand on that a bit, if you will. I've been to a few of the big sports books, and the gamblers are trying to get the score, not set it.
Ya but financial markets aren't like sports betters. The score is literally set in response to bids and asks. Sometimes these bids and asks are based on subjective responses to objective facts like shortages & demand changes, but even those scores are overshot by emotion, herd mentality, and the real invisible hand at the plunge protection team.

If you want a sports analogy, imagine a game where the crowd are the refs and a hundred thousand opinions weigh in on the value of every particular play or move. The annnouncers and guys who control the speakers would probably have the most influence on who wins and who loses the game. One particular advantage the Too Big to Fail Banks have in this game is that they currently own about half the seats in the stadium, and the bid/ask votes that go along with them.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#3161 at 10-16-2012 01:19 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow A sea level Golden Horseshoe nominee

Real Climate recently put out an article digging into one bit of denialist disinformation that's been running around the internet for some time, A sea level Golden Horseshoe nominee. As found in the wild, it runs like this...

As regards the catastrophic sea level rise in the Pacific, it became obvious some 20 years ago that results from island tide gauges did not support computer predictions. Scientists from Flinders University in Adelaide set up new, modern, tide-gauges in 12 Pacific islands to test whether there was in fact any evidence of sinking. Recently the whole project was abandoned as there had been no sign whatsoever of a change in sea level at any of the 12 islands for the past 16 years.
One of the alarmist scientists decided to run this down. It was specific enough that he thought it likely that it was anchored in something firmer than someone's imagination, even if it conflicts with the new satellite data that says the Pacific is indeed rising. Anyway, the tide gages were real, they were never abandoned, and they are producing data entirely consistent with the satellite data.

Nothing earth shaking, but par for the course. If one wants a review of the difference between how professional climate science works and how denialist pseudo science propaganda works, it might be worth a read.

In summary, every piece of concrete information in the Gray/Cameron statement is wrong. They were wrong even in 2007 when the statement was written and even wronger when it was cut-and-pasted without sources in 2012. Yet demonstrating this took a a few hours of googling, a little familiarity with the issues and people, and obviously is not going to be done by every reader. Thus a statement which clearly make no sense goes unchallenged for years and keeps getting regurgitated. Sure, no single statement like this is likely going to change anyone’s mind about anything, but this one and others like it form part of a drumbeat of disinformation, which by repetition, becomes embedded and hard to shift.







Post#3162 at 10-16-2012 09:03 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Real Climate recently put out an article digging into one bit of denialist disinformation that's been running around the internet for some time, A sea level Golden Horseshoe nominee. As found in the wild, it runs like this...

One of the alarmist scientists decided to run this down. It was specific enough that he thought it likely that it was anchored in something firmer than someone's imagination, even if it conflicts with the new satellite data that says the Pacific is indeed rising. Anyway, the tide gages were real, they were never abandoned, and they are producing data entirely consistent with the satellite data.

Nothing earth shaking, but par for the course. If one wants a review of the difference between how professional climate science works and how denialist pseudo science propaganda works, it might be worth a read.
Unabashed lying is the new argument style. It works since it takes no time to create a lie, nor is it in any way restricted, unless you consider that it can't be totally absurd and effective. Even then, there are diehards who will believe it anyway. Proving it's a lie does take time and often resources as well. It's just another form of asymmetric warfare.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#3163 at 10-16-2012 10:32 AM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
Businessmen can't "screw" anybody outside of force (which they don't have in a libertarian society) or fraud (which is stil against the law, even in a libertarian society).
Of course they can.

The typical libertarian freedom framework is individuals should be free to pursue their own interests, except where they intrude on another individual's rights. The problem is unless you live in isolation, everything you do has the potential to intrude on other people's perceived rights. One cannot do anything at all if one is to scrupulously avoid intruding on the rights of others. The only solution is a hierachy of rights, some people's rights take precedence over others. And this has been been the role of law (including custom) and government. For example, Person A produces coal for combustion which produces greenhouse gases. Person B objects to having his environment harmed against his will. Does Person A get to continue producing coal?

How do you resolve situations like this. A simple solution is to deny any right exists. For example, by defining slaves as livestock, they have no more right to freedom than cattle and slavery violates no rights. Similarly one can deny that the chemicals released to Love canal or greenhouse gases released to the atmosphere cause any harm to third parties, and so there are rights to be considered. In order to get things done we agree on forbearance of enforcmement of potential rights violations of rights. How do you decide which perceived rights merit forbearance from enforcement?

In a liberal democracy, these questions are resolved ultimately by government through the political prcess in which all people has a right to participate equally (one person one vote). In a libertarian society my understanding is these questions would be handled by courts. Courts cost money to run. If those who would use the courts must pay a user fee, then those who lack money to pay court expenses will have no rights. In this case those with the most financial resources get to decide these issues (one dollar one vote).

If the financial bar is raised sufficiently high the numbers of people whose rights have to be considered before beginning a project can be held to a minimum, allowing the remaining parties to work out an arrangment contractually. But to keep the contractual system from becoming too burdensome, who have to keep the number of potential parties whose interests much be considered small.

How do you get people who subscribe to individualism to voluntarily accept violation of what they perceive to be their rights just because they have less money than than the one seeking to violate their rights? The richer person can argue that by allowing him to violate your perceived rights he will create more collective good than harm to you (in his considered opinion, backed up by his hired experts). Such a "common good" argument is just the sort of thing that won't resonate with a libertarian. Arguments along the lines of: "rights" don't exist, and in any case do not matter--so STFU, are even less likely to work. In the end the rich person can always get you to cooperate the Bella Oxmyx way.

This is why libertarianism doesn't work in practice.







Post#3164 at 10-16-2012 04:36 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
Ah. You don't know how pricing works. Got it.



Oh no Eric, I blame you and all the other Californians for California's problems. It's your mess. You can clean it up (assuming you first learn how pricing works).
I imagine we could be energy independent if everyone had solar on their roof and all cars were electric, bio-fueled or fuel cell. But California has its share of Republicans and oil execs too. Arnold was touted as pro-green, but he actually slowed down the change. Brown is a bit better, but we still have Republicans and compliant Democrats in power, and libertarian skeptics like you too.

What we need to do is change how pricing works, because we leave it to the speculators to price things in accordance with whatever is in THEIR own interest.

But being a materialist, you can't conceive of change, because change requires humans to have consciousness and soul and not be automatons and dunderheads.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3165 at 10-16-2012 06:04 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I imagine we could be energy independent if everyone had solar on their roof and all cars were electric, bio-fueled or fuel cell. But California has its share of Republicans and oil execs too. Arnold was touted as pro-green, but he actually slowed down the change. Brown is a bit better, but we still have Republicans and compliant Democrats in power, and libertarian skeptics like you too.

What we need to do is change how pricing works, because we leave it to the speculators to price things in accordance with whatever is in THEIR own interest.
Barring some slowdown in the pace of solar cost decreases, it shouldn't be that long before electricity from solar is cheaper than coal. Even accounting for a logorithmic decline, this will make energy a non-issue in ten years. Well, the issue will be relative scarcity of rare earth elements required to make advanced electronics and power generators.

But being a materialist, you can't conceive of change, because change requires humans to have consciousness and soul and not be automatons and dunderheads.
And that's just silly.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#3166 at 10-16-2012 06:39 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Barring some slowdown in the pace of solar cost decreases, it shouldn't be that long before electricity from solar is cheaper than coal. Even accounting for a logorithmic decline, this will make energy a non-issue in ten years. Well, the issue will be relative scarcity of rare earth elements required to make advanced electronics and power generators.
Quite possibly.

And that's just silly.
Well maybe a little; I'm feeling frustrated today. (I'm not sure you meant that what I said was silly, or that what I'm talking about is silly). This is for the other thread though. But I have always wondered how people can be materialist, and still think they or anyone else can do or change anything, if (as they therefore believe) everything including themselves is determined by forces determined by other forces etc.. (Folks like Copperfield being Exhibit A here on this site). But on the other hand, the religious fanatics and other conservative believers don't want to look at facts, and that's a serious problem too. It would be so much better if people in our country would stop believing in these false ideologies given to them by authorities and experts, and instead deal with life as we actually experience it, and as we know it can be. No other country quite has these kinds of problems.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 10-16-2012 at 06:42 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3167 at 10-16-2012 06:58 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I imagine we could be energy independent if everyone had solar on their roof and all cars were electric, bio-fueled or fuel cell. But California has its share of Republicans and oil execs too. Arnold was touted as pro-green, but he actually slowed down the change. Brown is a bit better, but we still have Republicans and compliant Democrats in power, and libertarian skeptics like you too.

What we need to do is change how pricing works, because we leave it to the speculators to price things in accordance with whatever is in THEIR own interest.

But being a materialist, you can't conceive of change, because change requires humans to have consciousness and soul and not be automatons and dunderheads.
And you imagine wrong (especially if all vehicles were "electric"). You should probably figure out a way to change habits, populations and demographics first. Just saying.

As far as the rest of it goes, being a "materialist” means I can conceive of ideas and changes that you will never be able to grasp (not because you can't, but because you won't). For my part, I am very okay with that arrangement. My solutions tend to be of a very organic nature and I am typically very willing to let the happily ignorant remain happily ignorant. I find they can be an extremely useful tool for teaching others who might not be so happy with their ignorance.







Post#3168 at 10-16-2012 07:01 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Well maybe a little; I'm feeling frustrated today. (I'm not sure you meant that what I said was silly, or that what I'm talking about is silly). This is for the other thread though. But I have always wondered how people can be materialist, and still think they or anyone else can do or change anything, if (as they therefore believe) everything including themselves is determined by forces determined by other forces etc.. (Folks like Copperfield being Exhibit A here on this site). But on the other hand, the religious fanatics and other conservative believers don't want to look at facts, and that's a serious problem too. It would be so much better if people in our country would stop believing in these false ideologies given to them by authorities and experts, and instead deal with life as we actually experience it, and as we know it can be. No other country quite has these kinds of problems.
Well the comment is kind of silly because many spiritual people are also quite fatalistic about God's plans, etc... The idea of free will isn't necessarily incompatible with a materialist universe, there is a lot about the nature of matter, energy, space and time that we don't understand.

Hell, even after we master quantum computing, we probably still won't be able to build a machine as elaborate as the human nervous & endocrine systems, nor one as effective at finding patterns and giving meaning to the universe around us. Even if awareness, consciousness, and higher thinking are all "just" emergent properties of complex systems, the level of complexity we're talking about leaves plenty of room for awe, inspiration, and imagination.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#3169 at 10-16-2012 07:37 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Well the comment is kind of silly because many spiritual people are also quite fatalistic about God's plans, etc... The idea of free will isn't necessarily incompatible with a materialist universe, there is a lot about the nature of matter, energy, space and time that we don't understand.

Hell, even after we master quantum computing, we probably still won't be able to build a machine as elaborate as the human nervous & endocrine systems, nor one as effective at finding patterns and giving meaning to the universe around us. Even if awareness, consciousness, and higher thinking are all "just" emergent properties of complex systems, the level of complexity we're talking about leaves plenty of room for awe, inspiration, and imagination.
If I may run off on a brief tangent here, you aren't thinking big enough. Why worry about something as trivial as simulating a single conscious mind, when you could be simulating entire universes. It very well could be turtles all the way down.







Post#3170 at 10-16-2012 10:25 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
If I may run off on a brief tangent here, you aren't thinking big enough. Why worry about something as trivial as simulating a single conscious mind, when you could be simulating entire universes. It very well could be turtles all the way down.
Can you imagine the machine you would need to calculate and simulate every variable in the universe? Not just every variable we are aware of, but every single sub-atomic variable, down to a plank's length resolution and plank time frame-rates? Well, we're on the inside of one, whatever the hell it is.

So the mass and energy required to run this resolution of universe is greater than the amount we'd have available for any simulation we (someday) create. The next turtle down would have grainier resolution before we even account for uncertainty of calculation and significant figures.

Eventually?

Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#3171 at 10-16-2012 10:47 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Can you imagine the machine you would need to calculate and simulate every variable in the universe? Not just every variable we are aware of, but every single sub-atomic variable, down to a plank's length resolution and plank time frame-rates? Well, we're on the inside of one, whatever the hell it is.

So the mass and energy required to run this resolution of universe is greater than the amount we'd have available for any simulation we (someday) create. The next turtle down would have grainier resolution before we even account for uncertainty of calculation and significant figures.

Eventually?

I can actually. Or more importantly I understand that programmers are crafty folks who always come up with creative new ways to circumvent potentially complex variables.







Post#3172 at 10-17-2012 10:36 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Well the comment is kind of silly because many spiritual people are also quite fatalistic about God's plans, etc... The idea of free will isn't necessarily incompatible with a materialist universe, there is a lot about the nature of matter, energy, space and time that we don't understand.

Hell, even after we master quantum computing, we probably still won't be able to build a machine as elaborate as the human nervous & endocrine systems, nor one as effective at finding patterns and giving meaning to the universe around us. Even if awareness, consciousness, and higher thinking are all "just" emergent properties of complex systems, the level of complexity we're talking about leaves plenty of room for awe, inspiration, and imagination.
Maybe, if we can look within at our own conscious souls, as well as do scientific studies "outside" them. If we recognize that uncertainty is more than just determined events we don't understand yet, but recognize that freedom and spontaneity are realities of the universe. But then, of course, you're no longer a "materialist," at least in the traditional sense. Fatalism disappears only when we understand that material explanations don't explain our awareness, etc. If you just think all events and things are determined, but that the process is too complicated to understand, then you still uphold a determinist view, which cuts out our ability to change things. Of course, I also mentioned the religious fanatics; that covers the spiritual fatalists.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3173 at 10-17-2012 10:37 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#3174 at 10-19-2012 06:24 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow The Hood without Snow

From highly partisan Firedoglake, a blue lament on global warming and other lost causes.

The New Normal

The palpable, glaring, obviousness of global warming has paradoxically coincided with its utter disappearance from the political dialogue, even as every American over 40 can plainly see it with their own eyes. Wildfires, droughts, hurricanes, northward invasions of freeze-averse pests, and crop failures fall on already struggling Americans like acid rain, fulfilling the direst prophesies of the scientists decades ahead of schedule, and yet the only mention of it in the 2012 campaign was by Romney, to mock its very existence.

Both candidates tried to outdo each other in their fealty to Big Carbon, and this is no accident. *Like all of the most odious pursuits of government that have subtly or not become “bipartisan” in recent years, from gun rights to war powers, from civil liberties to elite immunity from lawbreaking, startlingly authoritarian and punitive government has been systematically sold to the public like Cialis, minus the bathtubs, by those who stand to gain from it. *And yet such a mind-numbingly dangerous power grab, one which directly endangers the future of humanity, is treated as a he said/she said kerfuffle by a dimwitted and compromised media.
Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty. JFK







Post#3175 at 10-19-2012 11:02 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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10-19-2012, 11:02 AM #3175
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'47 cohort still lost in Falwelland
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
From highly partisan Firedoglake, a blue lament on global warming and other lost causes.

The New Normal
We never fix things until we have no other choice. We're Americans!
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
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