But w eall kno that binkys are a gateway to other forms of oral satisfaction. Just sayin,' :

Originally Posted by Deb C

Just a nit pic... Whenever we use the phrase "tree huggers," we have bought into the frame that the fossil fuel created for anyone who stands in the way of their for profit destruction of our planet. Just saying. It's right up there with the frame "radical" or extremists." The image they want to portray is some stringy long haired person with a crazed look in their eye.

It's obviously not enough to 'hug trees' or rhapsodize about their nobility. Someone will see any great tree as something to chop down. We need people who can convince others that conservation of resources is a good idea -- and that zero population growth is a good idea. That means no more new subdivisions that will devour wood. Just as significantly we need to go on a petroleum diet.

The real extremists are the people who see trees and only see what can be made with them rather than appreciating them in place. They would log Yellowstone and Yosemite if they could get away with it. Another example is Congressman Steve Stockman of Texas, who says is that the great miracle is that one can dig holes into the Earth and get petroleum.

The true conservative approach is to make sure that we have something worth keeping -- and a wholesome environment is worth some sacrifices. Accelerating the consumption of scarce resources is destructive radicalism.

This is a photo of me and my grandchildren. Do I look like the frame of a radical that the PTB want you to see?

Never judge a book by its cover. You have children and grandchildren to protect -- and your views on the environment are right.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

But w eall kno that binkys are a gateway to other forms of oral satisfaction. Just sayin,' :

Yeah, before you know it, she'll be smoking pot.

Originally Posted by Deb C

The binky is BPA free. And, it has nothing to do with keeping her silent and complacent. I guess your an expert on parenting and binkies? Please do tell.

"BPA free" does not mean "not-plastic". BPA is a chemical used in production and was removed from the production of some plastics due to health concerns, however plastic products are (mostly) still made from petrochemicals.

A lot of things are, including some of the clothing everyone in the picture are wearing and the vehicle that you (assumingly) drove to the park in. We can remove all of these things, sure. Certainly we lived without them for most of our history. That said, I doubt you realize just how much different your life would be without them.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Instead of a diversion tactic that points out a baby's binky, and making assumptions as to why she has it, why not focus on the topic of global warming?

PS: My grand-daughter has terrible ear infections and chewing on a binky helps relieve the pain. So there you have it, Mr. Assumption.

When my daughter was a toddler and into exploring the world around her using all tools at her disposal (including her mouth), I would give her a binky. It was better than her sucking on wood chips, gravel, and puppy poo.

Originally Posted by Deb C

The binky is BPA free. And, it has nothing to do with keeping her silent and complacent. I guess your an expert on parenting and binkies? Please do tell.

I think B Butler's post was an attempt at humor. (at least, I hope so)

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I think B Butler's post was an attempt at humor. (at least, I hope so)

He had the opportunity to say that it was an attempt at humor when I responded to his original post. As you can tell, I am quite the lioness when it comes to my children and grandchildren. If I was inappropriate in my second response, then I will apologize to him.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The most dangerous thing happening in America today is the oil and gas boom.

Please sign my petition to the White House
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...imate/kCBkMHqD

Why is it dangerous?

Because unless we stop burning fossil fuels, we will cook the planet and make it uninhabitable, and we have less than 10 years to change before global warming is irreversible.

And because people like the pundits and politicians on the Charlie Rose show think that the oil and gas boom is "good for our economy" and makes us an energy rich nation; one that can also export fossil fuels to other countries and thus keep cooking the planet.

And because this boom is itself based on fracking, which pollutes the air and water and releases greenhouse gases like methane.

And because it still keeps us dependent on fossil fuels and delays renewable energy development, which needs to have already been done.

We need to stop fracking unless it is changed to make it safe, which it probably can't be. And even if it is safe for nearby residents, using fossil fuels is not safe for the planet. Therefore it needs to be stopped even if it is safe, although natural gas could be a bridge fuel for a short while-- again, only if that portion of it mined by fracking is proven safe or made safe from pollution and greenhouse gases, which is probably not possible.

We need to stop the keystone oil pipeline, which pollutes Canada, the American plains and the climate, and raises gas prices.

We need to stop offshore oil drilling, because it causes disasters like the one by BP in the Gulf in 2010, from which we learned nothing.

We need to switch to solar and wind and other renewables as soon as is practical. But we can't as long as people think they can make good money from fracking.

Our president makes speeches on climate change to California farmers, and our Sec. of State preaches the need to reduce climate change to Indonesia. Yet rumors persist that they will approve the Keystone Pipeline and fracking. If they think climate change is so important, then THEY need to act and take the lead by stopping keystone and restricting fracking.

Some Venezuelan politician described petroleum as la mierda del Diablo -- the $#!+ of the Devil. Petroleum created huge economic activity that raised the cost of doing any business, created few jobs, destroyed traditional (and often sustainable) livelihoods, and ravaged the environment. The oil industry invariably corrupts the political process.

Canada may have stronger institutions than Venezuela had eighty years ago, but just imagine what happens when Big Oil takes over the country's political process.

Originally Posted by The Rani

The way I read it (and I could be wrong, but the eye roll at the end was a clue) he was mocking your "conspiracy theories," comparing your granddaughter to the mindless consumers of petroleum that you so frequently talk about on the forum.

Good interpretation. I seriously didn't think anyone would take a vast conspiracy of mind control by binky seriously. I haven't responded to this point out of a surplus of disgust. It seemed prudent to spend a few days cooling off.

I interpreted the original post with the picture as an attempt to refute the dire stereotype of pro environment people being crazy freaks. This is just one of many political stereotypes used as strawmen. Democrats are communists. Republicans are nazi. People on the other side of the environmental debates are selfish short sighted fools. There might be varying amounts of truth in many such vile stereotypes. It is problematic, though, when the discourse turns from discussion of issues, facts, policy etc towards personal attacks based on an assumption that the person one is talking to ideally fits one of said vile stereotypes.

The recent exchange above isn't the ideal example, but it has key elements.

Anyway, I'd be happy to assume Deb C is the kindly grandmother portrayed in the post and photograph, holding well well thought out rational positions on many issues. I have been attacked at times for trying to see the best in other people's positions, for assuming others have reasons for even their most strident, obsessive and seemingly irrational positions. On the whole, I believe that wisdom often belongs in compromise between extremes, in recognizing and understanding where the other guy is coming from. Even if regeneracy comes and perhaps has to come from the complete collapse of one world view or another, the end policy will be a balance between rival positions rather than taking the position of the 'victors' to a crazy extreme. If the victors get too confident and too extreme, you get the king being put back on the throne after Cromwell, Jim Crow and the KKK after the Civil War, or Reagan after FDR through Johnson.

Anyway, sorry for the diversion, I dislike the tendency on these forums to indulge in personal attacks. This isn't a particularly notable or extreme example. I'd gladly treat kindly grandmothers as kindly grandmothers assuming they behave like kindly grandmothers.

Then too, Eric and I have been known to flirt with the angry hippy stereotype, knowing the world needs to be saved, knowing all the answers, and ready to tilt at the windmills where lurk The Man, The Establishment, the Military Industrial Complex, the One Percent, the Capitalist monopolizers of the means of production, or whatever you'd care to call those (expletive deleted). It doesn't take much empathy for me to sympathize with a lot of Deb C's posts.

There is a problematic balance for me. On one hand, only we Boomers these days know the amount of emotion, wrath and dedication required to actually change The Establishment's policies. Many young whippersnappers reject our passion and dedication, and so reject basic tools necessary if change is to occur. We Boomers have been there, done that, if not personally, as a generation. The impassioned defense of what is important to one is not always in the realm of fanatic irrational freaky people. It depends in part on how fanatic irrational and freaky the other guys are.

On the other hand, love, peace and flowers are neat too.

Binkys as well.

Telsa recently announced an intention to build a 'giga factory', producing lithium ion batteries at low cost and high volume. The batteries produced might be intended primarily for Telsa's cars, but the ability to store energy for later release could benefit other alternative energy projects.

If Tesla can become the world’s low-cost producer in energy storage, we see significant optionality for Tesla to disrupt adjacent industries.

It's too soon to say some sort of tipping point is in sight, but this is the sort of cost and availability breakthrough that is needed.

Originally Posted by B Butler

Good interpretation. I seriously didn't think anyone would take a vast conspiracy of mind control by binky seriously. I haven't responded to this point out of a surplus of disgust. It seemed prudent to spend a few days cooling off.

I interpreted the original post with the picture as an attempt to refute the dire stereotype of pro environment people being crazy freaks. This is just one of many political stereotypes used as strawmen. Democrats are communists. Republicans are nazi. People on the other side of the environmental debates are selfish short sighted fools. There might be varying amounts of truth in many such vile stereotypes. It is problematic, though, when the discourse turns from discussion of issues, facts, policy etc towards personal attacks based on an assumption that the person one is talking to ideally fits one of said vile stereotypes.

The recent exchange above isn't the ideal example, but it has key elements.

Anyway, I'd be happy to assume Deb C is the kindly grandmother portrayed in the post and photograph, holding well well thought out rational positions on many issues. I have been attacked at times for trying to see the best in other people's positions, for assuming others have reasons for even their most strident, obsessive and seemingly irrational positions. On the whole, I believe that wisdom often belongs in compromise between extremes, in recognizing and understanding where the other guy is coming from. Even if regeneracy comes and perhaps has to come from the complete collapse of one world view or another, the end policy will be a balance between rival positions rather than taking the position of the 'victors' to a crazy extreme. If the victors get too confident and too extreme, you get the king being put back on the throne after Cromwell, Jim Crow and the KKK after the Civil War, or Reagan after FDR through Johnson.

Anyway, sorry for the diversion, I dislike the tendency on these forums to indulge in personal attacks. This isn't a particularly notable or extreme example. I'd gladly treat kindly grandmothers as kindly grandmothers assuming they behave like kindly grandmothers.

Then too, Eric and I have been known to flirt with the angry hippy stereotype, knowing the world needs to be saved, knowing all the answers, and ready to tilt at the windmills where lurk The Man, The Establishment, the Military Industrial Complex, the One Percent, the Capitalist monopolizers of the means of production, or whatever you'd care to call those (expletive deleted). It doesn't take much empathy for me to sympathize with a lot of Deb C's posts.

There is a problematic balance for me. On one hand, only we Boomers these days know the amount of emotion, wrath and dedication required to actually change The Establishment's policies. Many young whippersnappers reject our passion and dedication, and so reject basic tools necessary if change is to occur. We Boomers have been there, done that, if not personally, as a generation. The impassioned defense of what is important to one is not always in the realm of fanatic irrational freaky people. It depends in part on how fanatic irrational and freaky the other guys are.

On the other hand, love, peace and flowers are neat too.

Binkys as well.

I would like to think that I usually refrain from knee jerk reactions, but it appears that my response to you was just that. I must have appeared to look like this:



However, I would like to see myself as being more like this:



Anyway, that part of me apologies for being Ms. Assumption. I'll take more deep breaths next time.

These silly hippie kids.

"More than 1,000 students and young people are expected to take part in the XL Dissent protest at the White House, many willing to risk arrest. This could be the largest single act of pipeline resistance yet."

Hundreds Plan to Risk Arrest in Keystone Pipeline Action

This weekend could turn out to be the largest act of civil disobedience at the White House in a generation.

After years of greening campuses, pushing for recycling and carbon neutrality, and educating their classmates about the threat of climate change, students are increasingly adopting protest as a tool for social change. From the fossil fuel divestment movement to the increasing levels of direct action and civil disobedience, young people are finding powerful ways to make an impact and stand in solidarity with the frontline communities who are feeling the impacts of our dirty energy economy and the climate crisis.

http://www.yesmagazine.org/planet/xl...paign=20140228

But how is this even possible?


http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf...l#incart_river

New York City poised to challenge its snowfall record as new storm nears

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- We're not exactly breaking new ground by saying it's been a bad winter.

But just how bad?

Well, to date this is the city's seventh snowiest winter, with 56.6 inches having fallen in Central Park.

However, another major storm is brewing that could drop up to a foot on Staten Island by Monday.

If we get at least seven inches, 2013-14 would stake claim as the second snowiest season in New York City history -- with three weeks remaining to top the brutal winter of 1995-96, when a record 75.6 inches fell in Central Park.

To date, here are the Top 10 seasonal snowfalls in Central Park:

1. 1995-96 -- 75.6;
2. 1947-48, 63.2;
3. 2010-11, 61.9;
4. 1922-23, 60.4;
5. 1872-73, 60.3;
6. 1874-75, 57.8;
7. 2013-14, 56.6
8. 1898-99. 55.9
9. 1960-61, 54.7
10. 1993-94, 53.4

Originally Posted by '58 Flat

But how is this even possible?


http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf...l#incart_river

New York City poised to challenge its snowfall record as new storm nears

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. -- We're not exactly breaking new ground by saying it's been a bad winter.

I take it your question is "How can there be global warming when it's been such a cold winter?" I think as posted elsewhere, it's been a cold winter in the eastern two thirds of the US (midwest and east) but warmer than average the rest of the world. And the southern hemisphere has had a torrid summer, with records being broken in many places "down under".

The point is that global warming causes more extreme weather of all kinds. More heat means more precipitation and disruption of jet stream patterns.

I guess arresting peaceful protesters is the new norm.

Hundreds were arrested in the Keystone XL Pipeline protest last night at the White House. Had they thrown Molotov cocktails and shot police, would the mainstream press have recognized them as the rightful government here, as they did in Ukraine? Alas, these protesters were peaceful, so had to be arrested and hauled off to jail in the Land of the Free.

I haven't seen any coverage of this yet. Maybe tonight. Land of the Free, indeed.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The point is that global warming causes more extreme weather of all kinds. More heat means more precipitation and disruption of jet stream patterns.

Yes. It makes upper level lows which look like cinnamon rolls. These lows then move from SOCAL to Oklahoma and dump a bunch of snow all over the place.

Originally Posted by NOAA

AFDOUNAREA FORECAST DISCUSSIONNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NORMAN OK306 PM CST FRI FEB 28 2014.DISCUSSION...PRIMARY FORECAST CONCERN REMAINS FOCUSED ON WINTRY PRECIP AND VERYCOLD TEMPERATURES LATE SAT-SUN.CURRENTLY... SKIES CONTINUE TO CLEAR TO THE EAST THIS AFTERNOON ASTHE H500 SHORT WAVE CONTINUES TO PUSH INTO THE OZARKS... TAKEN THISMORNINGS SHOWERS WITH IT. WINDS HAVE REMAINED VARIABLE THROUGH THEAFTERNOON... WITH TEMPS CLIMBING SLOWLY INTO THE MID TO UPPER 50S TOLOWER 60S. 20Z SFC ANALYSIS REVEALS WINDS OUT OF THE NORTH UNDER THESFC TROUGH EXTENDING INTO WRN N TX FROM THE PANHANDLES. N/NW WINDSWILL REMAIN BREEZY THROUGH THE REMAINDER OF THE AFTERNOON...LESSENING THROUGH SUNSET. LOWS OVERNIGHT WILL DIP INTO THE MID 30STO LOWER 40S.FOR SATURDAY... THE VISUALLY IMPRESSIVE LOW THAT IS CURRENTLYCHURNING OFF THE CA COAST WILL BEGIN TO MOVE ASHORE AND OVER SOCALTONIGHT. SERIOUSLY... IF YOU HAVE NOT CHECKED OUT WV LATELY... GIVETHAT H500 SHORT WAVE A LOOK...IT KIND OF RESEMBLES A CINNAMONROLL... MMMM...CINNAMON ROLLS. ANYWAY... OFF THE ERN EDGE OF THISWAVE... A SECONDARY TROUGH WILL EJECT QUICKLY ACROSS THEINTERMOUNTAIN WEST THROUGH THE EARLY AFTN. AHEAD OF IT... A DECENTSFC HIGH/CANADIAN AIR MASS WILL CONTINUE TO SLIDE SWRD ACROSS THEPLAINS... WITH A STOUT COLD FRONT EDGING NEAR THE OK/KS BORDER BY01/18Z. THIS WILL RESULT IN A STARK GRADIENT FOR HIGHS SAT... WITH30S ACROSS NRN OK TO UPPER 60S ALONG THE RED RIVER VALLEY.SHORT/MID RANGE GUIDANCE REMAINS IN OVERALL DECENT AGREEMENT... WITHONLY MINOR SUBTLETIES BETWEEN SOLUTIONS WITHIN THE SYNOPTIC ANDMESOSCALE. THEREFORE... ONLY MADE MINOR ADJUSTMENTS TO POPS... WITHA SLIGHT INCREASE ACROSS N CENTRAL OK SUN MORNING. STILL EXPECT BESTPRECIP CHANCES TO EXIST ACROSS SWRN KS INTO WRN MO... WITH SNOW THEPRIMARY PRECIP TYPE... AND THEN SOUTH ACROSS NERN TX INTO THE SRNOZARKS. FOR OKLAHOMA... FREEZING RAIN AND SLEET REMAIN THE PRIMARYPRECIP TYPES LATE SAT NIGHT THROUGH SUN MORNING... WITH LIGHTSNOW/SLEET DEVELOPING ACROSS NRN OK THROUGH SUN AFTN. WORKING TOPDOWN... BUFR SOUNDINGS SHOW AN IMPRESSIVE WARM NOSE FROM CENTRAL OKINTO NRN TX... AROUND 875MB OF 10C OVERNIGHT THRU SUNDAY. WITH LOWSOVERNIGHT IN THE SINGLE DIGITS TO 20S ACROSS THE NRN HALF OFOK...SLEET/FZRA WILL BE THE PRIMARY PRECIP TYPE FOR NRN AND CENTRALOK THROUGH THE SUNDAY MORNING... WITH RAIN AND SOME ISOLATED THUNDERACROSS FAR SRN OK AND WRN N TX. THROUGH SUNDAY... TEMPS WILLCONTINUE TO FALL AS COLD AIR CONTINUES TO SPREAD ACROSS THEREGION... WITH PROFILES IMPROVING... SLEET/FZRA WILL TRANSITION TOSNOW ACROSS NRN OK... WITH FZRA/FZDZ INCREASING IN COVERAGE ACROSSSRN OK AND WRN N TX. TOTAL ACCUMULATIONS OF SNOW AND ICE REMAINRELATIVELY LOW GIVEN THE INCREASING DRY NRLY FLOW WITHIN THEBOUNDARY LAYER. WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED TO SEE SOME SUBLIMATION ASTHE H500 TROUGH EXITS TO THE EAST OVERNIGHT SUNDAY INTO MONDAY.CURRENT EXPECTED IMPACTS... ELEVATED SURFACES MAY SEE ANYWHERE FROMA TRACE TO A HUNDREDTH OF AN INCH OF ICE IN MOST LOCATIONS... WITHSOME LOCALLY HIGHER AMOUNTS IN LOCATIONS WELL EAST OF THE I-35CORRIDOR. SLICK SPOTS WILL DEVELOP ON ROADWAYS RESULTING INHAZARDOUS DRIVING CONDITIONS. IF YOU HAVE TO TRAVEL ON SUNDAY...DRIVE SLOWLY AND GIVE YOURSELF PLENTY OF TIME TO REACH YOURDESTINATION.FOR NEXT WEEK... TEMPS WILL WARM SLOWLY AFTER MONDAY THROUGH THE ENDOF THE WEEK... WITH ANOTHER SHOT OF RAIN POSSIBLY WED/THU.JTK

Originally Posted by Deb C

Huh? Another post with a square with a blue "not" sign in the middle. How do y'all do that?

[QUOTE=Deb C;497379]I guess arresting peaceful protesters is the new norm.

Hundreds were arrested in the Keystone XL Pipeline protest last night at the White House. Had they thrown Molotov cocktails and shot police, would the mainstream press have recognized them as the rightful government here, as they did in Ukraine? Alas, these protesters were peaceful, so had to be arrested and hauled off to jail in the Land of the Free.[/QUOTE]

Arresting peaceful protestors is par for the course. When have we ever NOT arrested them?

So good for them. If they have gumption and stick to their guns, they may have some impact. If they fold, they go home and it's game over for now.

Effective environmental protesting is always going to be difficult because you don't have a readymade base of the public who is well aware of the benefits in siding with the protest in question. Contrast that with, say, civil rights protests. Those that were discriminated against felt the weight of that discrimination every day of their lives, and they knew that they had nothing to lose in building the protest's waves. But here, the Keystone pipeline is a distant project for most--out of sight, out of mind. Same goes for, say, coal-fired power and all its problems with land, air, and water. The effects of global warming are notorious for being very abstractly quantifiable. And if anything, supporting most environmental goals requires sacrifice up front instead of clear, immediate benefits.

I think Obama's got the right idea of working within the system to the best of his ability, in classic Xer form. The way Xers and Millennials handle the environment is likely to be much different than the way Silents and Boomers did.

The most effective environmental protest will occur the day the pipeline breaks.

Originally Posted by Bad Dog

The most effective environmental protest will occur the day the pipeline breaks.

Accidentally? Or on purpose?

Cynthia McKinney asks the right questions.

"So let me get this straight: my local natural gas provider just upped the price of gas to me, but President Obama wants to ship fracked gas that has contaminated U.S. water to oligarchs in Ukraine--and no compensation to the U.S. people harmed by the fracking???? Let alone the environment!!! Pray tell: on what planet was this current batch of U.S. policy makers trained???? Bravo EARTHWORKS, Environment America for attempting to stop fracking!"