Originally Posted by apollonian

Butler: Sooooooooooooooo "Smart," He Fools Himself, Forfeits Life--Really "Smart," Eh?

Butler: u just babble and babble and babble, don't u?--ho ho ho ho--got some time on ur hands, eh? Ho ho ho ho

Just trying to give you a chance to prove you know you what you are talking about. You mentioned natural cycles, but seem totally unaware of what the natural cycles are, their magnitude, period and regularity. This confirms that you are repeating talking points rather than being a true student of climate science. Feel free to contradict this assessment by making a post that reflects some knowledge of climate science. If not, I will indeed cease to talk to you as if you knew what you were talking about.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Ur "theory," may indeed be confirmed, but it doesn't prove anything pertinent--that (a) there's rise in temp., (b) caused by man, (c) caused by CO2, (d) that there's rise in CO2.

Oh, it's definitely confirmed.

A. Not just myself but several others have documented the temperature rise, and you have not answered the point save through argument by authority... your own. Hint, you have no authority.

D. I provided the link showing the well documented CO2 rise.

B. I have heard no one propose an alternate source of CO2 to man burning fossil fuels. This is a new one to me. I've attempted to communicate with a large number of climate science denialists, but never encountered anyone who claims man isn't burning a lot of fossil fuels and that a lot of carbon is ending up in the atmosphere. Can you suggest another source of carbon of the magnitude measured?

C. You definitely have a linguistic or comprehension handicap on this one, or perhaps you just aren't bothering to read my posts?

Originally Posted by apollonian

Note "instruments" are indeed extensions of sense-perceptions--say like binoculars, eh? But, the more extended it gets, the more questionable the accuracy becomes, necessarily, for obvious reasons.

Reading a thermometer isn't rocket science. Believe it or not, people lacking your linguistic and cognition handicaps can do so quite easily. If you can't read a thermometer and don't trust others to read thermometers for you, your opinions on matters of temperature aren't worth anything.

Originally Posted by apollonian

So QUIT UR LYING AND ATTEMPTING TO TERRORIZING THE PEOPLE W. UR "CLIMATE-CHANGE" LIES AND NONSENSE, WHICH U CAN'T PROVE, WHICH U WANT TO USE FOR DICTATORSHIP AND TYRANNY--if u know what's good, comrade. Penalty for treason is grim stuff. And I've warned u several times now--u have no excuses. U fool no one but urself, primarily, sucker--but have fun imagining u're soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo smart, ho ho ho ho ho

If you are going to continue accusing people of lying, you might specify precisely what statement is the lie, and provide some sort of objective evidence that said statement is false. Otherwise, you are just spraying ad-hominum attacks about. That gets boring very fast.

It is one thing when a hick from nowhere takes the "I don't believe it if I can't see it with my own eyes" position. One just waits until one gets behind his back, points and snickers. On the other hand, if a learned college professor with advanced degrees, tenure and the ability to quote famous philosophers takes the same approach...

Hmmm...

I for one wouldn't wait until I'm behind his back. I'd just laugh in his face.

"Ho ho ho ho"? You're part of the adult entertainment industry? Sorry, I thought by the flavor of your arrogance and ignorance that you were likely a male. Pardon if I have inadvertently insulted the intelligence and education level of your co-workers.

Previous post reported, apollonian.

Don't use the anti-gay word in a hostile manner.

I prefer that this Forum be family-friendly.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Don't tell me what to do, scum--unnastand? How do u know it's anti-gay, anyway, u brainless moron?

How could I otherwise interpret it?

And I thought u had me on "ignore," dumbass. Great advocate of freedom and free speech u are, u scum. It's ok to knock white folks and Christians, but not u scummy (insult redacted)?--heck w. that, I say, by golly.

Some white people are scum. Many people claiming to be Christians fall far short of behavior appropriate for Christians. Besides, you have no means of discerning my sexual orientation -- not that homosexuality is grossly wrong. I would rather discover that a son is gay than find that he is 'into' vehicle theft or drug dealing.

If this is all just a put-on act... then it is time to pull the hook on it and drop the curtain. If it is the "real you", then you have problems. Could you hold a job with an attitude like the one that you show? Do you think that you can find a life partner with the fecal language that you use? Your potty mouth is infantile, and nobody likes that in an adult.

You talk down to people, most of whom deserve some respect for their achievements.

Originally Posted by apollonian

So u see, Butler: u're just a moron, fool, scum, and traitor--and u'd better think twice about ur wicked ways, punk.

One other thing--are u another faggot?--is that why u keep writing ur stupid posts, pretending u have anything in way of serious info? Perhaps u ought to save ur energy--like u keep threatening to do, but failing, like the moron u are. Gad, but u are a DUMB, BRAINLESS p. o. s.--aside fm being traitor.

Just out of idle curiosity, can you read thermometers when they aren't being used to measure climate? Can you use a medical thermometer to test for a fever, or a cooking thermometer to see if a piece of meat is done? Most global warming skeptics simply have values lock problem. Like a lot of humans, they are incapable of comprehending science that conflicts with their core world views. In your case, though, it might genuinely be a cognitive handicap.

Personally, I don't think reading a thermometer is that difficult, nor do I think a massive conspiracy theory involving scientists, weathermen and airport employees recording temperatures well before global warming became a known problem likely.

Yes, around the turn of the millennia, two natural cycles peaked together, resulting in what was at that time the hottest year on record. Once or twice a year someone visits this thread and claims the world has been cooling since that record setting year. It's a routine denialist talking point that's been rebutted ad-tedium. Among other things, nine of the ten hottest years ever recorded have occurred since and including that year. The world is cooling? Ha!

With the prize of a smidgen of respectability, can you identify the record year, identify the two natural cycles that lined up their hot peaks that year, and identify when these two cycles are expected to line up again? You did manage to look up the legal definition of 'treason', even if you have since chosen to ignore it. You are capable of looking up facts, even if you choose to ignore them. Go for it! You will never overcome your linguistic and cognitive handicaps if you do not try.

Did you manage to avoid taking high school physics? Yes, if you leave a container of water exposed to air, the partial pressures of CO2 in water and air will become equal. CO2 passes freely between air and water. If there is a high concentration of CO2 in one, it will move to the other until equilibrium is achieved. The process is relatively quick in the lab, but oceans are big. While the surface layer ocean CO2 pressures are not far behind the atmospheric levels, it takes many years for the CO2 to shift from the surface layers into the depths.

The US government came up with a brilliant plan to use the fact that CO2 dissolves in water to keep it out of the atmosphere. If one built fossil fuel burning power plants near the sea and pumped the exhaust deep down in the water, the CO2 would dissolve into the ocean before it reached the surface. A cool solution to global warming, no? They asked a few researchers to look into making it happen.

Problem is, dissolve CO2 into water and the water turns acid. If you turn the ocean sufficiently acidic, life dies. There are places where CO2 is naturally released into the oceans from volcanic vents. They are dead zones. Very few sea creatures can live in acid. Coral reefs are among the first to die, soon followed by the creatures that depend on coral reefs. There is already a clearly observable problem. The scientific community is counting down the decades before the acidity reaches the level where major extinction events have occurred in the past. Many feel the acidification of the ocean is just as large and dire a problem as the warming of the atmosphere.

The US government has dropped the plan to pump CO2 into the oceans. Like a hot potato. They are now trying to pretend they never considered the idea.

So, yes, if there were no oceans absorbing CO2, CO2 concentration in the air would be rising faster than it already is. Turning the oceans to acid is slowing the global warming process. Slowing, but not stopping, and the side effect of the slowing is dire.

I am not surprised that you were unaware of the acidic ocean problem. Now, as usual when new facts threaten your world view, I expect four major responses. You call the person who presented you with the facts a liar. You start using more all caps in your posts. Your ad-hominium attacks become more shrill and juvenile. You invent another conspiracy theory that allows you to ignore the new facts. I picture you sitting at your computer, crying, pounding the desk and calling for your mommie. When she shows up, she is forced out of basic respect for humanity to wash your mouth out with soap.

Go for it. It's such a convincing approach. Have you counted the number of new converts you have won over this way? Don't worry about running out of fingers.

Originally Posted by B Butler

Now, as usual when new facts threaten your world view, I expect four major responses. You call the person who presented you with the facts a liar. You start using more all caps in your posts. Your ad-hominium attacks become more shrill and juvenile.

And yep, right on cue, he does:

Originally Posted by apollonian

STupid faggot (and traitor): so u "don't think"?--we KNEW that, didn't we? Ho ho ho ho

Stupid scum, fag, traitor, lying piece-of-shit: who do u think u're kidding?

Conspiracy is PROVEN, ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST DOUBT.

Good call Butler. I'll bet you could play him like a puppet if you wanted to. His frothing gibberish can be perversely entertaining, for a little while anyway.

Originally Posted by Alioth68

His frothing gibberish can be perversely entertaining, for a little while anyway.

Yup. I think his time is about up.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Yes, that's what I meant.

Come on, Doctor; you know that I don't take the fact the I am God too seriously

My experience:

People who say nasty things about complete strangers usually are or do exactly what they claim that those complete strangers are or do. Just about everything that the Nazis said about the Jews was true -- of the Nazis.

Originally Posted by Alioth68

And yep, right on cue, he does:

Good call Butler. I'll bet you could play him like a puppet if you wanted to. His frothing gibberish can be perversely entertaining, for a little while anyway.

It does get repetitive. Sometimes I think he should hang out near elementary schools at recess time. He could pick up new taunts that match his writing style. On the other hand, I doubt his keepers should let him get so close to small children.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Yup. I think his time is about up.

Have you gone back and read his oldest posts? Even then he had already withdrawn into his fantasy world. Still, it is alarming how badly his linguistic skills and emotional control has deteriorated. I hope his state has embraced and fully funded Obamacare. Home care for emotionally stressed dementia patients can be a tremendous burden on the family.

He does provide an excuse to review the basics on turning theory and global warming. A poor excuse. Most conservative visitors to the site can quote both the political talking point and the pseudo-science concocted to back it up. He doesn't seem to comprehend the pseudo science. One can respond to pseudo-science with science, but it's hard to respond to elementary school level taunts and obscenity with science. It's the proverbial battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

It is essential to those clinging to a denialist world view to find cause to ignore the data. One must allege that recording temperatures is so difficult that one cannot do it well, or that there is a vast conspiracy of the airport employees, local weathermen, harbormasters and the rest of those doing the actual recording of data. And yet, it is ever so tempting to cherry pick said data for short term trends that support their point of view. The most recent trend among the denialists is starting all their temperature trend curves at the record hot year a decade plus back.

First, cherry picking data is a big scientific no no. If you are looking for trends, you spread the start and end points as widely apart as one can. One starts and ends the trend period in normal times rather than at extremes. It would be tempting for a global warming alarmist to start his trend period a year or two after a big volcanic eruption. Start the curve in an unusually cold year and you can generate an artificially alarming picture. Similarly, a denialist would choose to start his curve in an unusually warm year. Good propaganda technique. Bad science.

But it also reflects the double think required to live in a fantasy bubble. If a data base shows information that one doesn't like, one rejects the data base as using unreliable techniques politically tainted. If the same data base shows information that supports one's fantasy life, at least within a narrow and carefully selected time period, the data base is pure and solid. I doubt he is concerned that he is quoting data bases he has renounced. Loss of consistency and integrity is part of the price one pays for embracing extreme world views.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Yes Rani: the "ass" for this site, I realize, loaded as it is w. "liberals" (fascists).

Rani: the KEY to Jews is to see and understand what their TALMUD teaches them, Talmud being the ESSENCE of Judaism. Best expo on Talmud is RevisionistReview.blogspot.com and Come-and-hear.com...

For the Rani, you may wish to shift to denigrating alternate material. Try the Bhagavad Gita ... and let us know how that works for you.

Originally Posted by The Rani

LOL @ your false assumptions.
Besides, if one is comfortable with his/her culture and/or secure in his/her belief system, what's the harm in listening to challenges?

Hey, this guy needs new ground to plow. Plus, it's short ... kinda. I could have assigned the entire Mahabharata.

.. and what you believe or disbelieve is not germane to his discussion. It's pure rant.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Butler: as I recall, at the first contact w. u, u advocated, defended gun-control, and I explained to u u were traitor attempting to overthrow US Const. and that there's grim penalty for treason. I also pt'd out u're a liar, probably a fag--ur behavior here confirms.

In your fantasy world, perhaps. I have a reality based world view. The 1st Amendment guarantees a right to feely speak on political issues. When creating your fantasy world, you seem to have discarded the climate aspect of science. Your understanding of constitutional law seems to have gone with it. I am not at all concerned about arrests for treason. If you think your posturing and threats have any validity, or your understanding of climate science, well... Perhaps someday you may come in for a rude surprise. One is generally unable to avoid reality in the long term.

Originally Posted by apollonian

I suspect u're just one of a number of fags in a network, u acting as agent provocateur, agent of influence, along w. accomplices--it may be an informal network, not terribly too well organized.

In your fantasy world, you seem to have a super power which allows you to detect sexual orientation at long ranged based purely on interpreting their text. Are you aware that those who have reality based world views aren't impressed by delusions of having super powers?

Originally Posted by apollonian

And I pt'd out simple fact the conspiracy to taint and skew the "data" regarding "climate-change" lies IS ABSOLUTELY PROVEN--which u have difficulty comprehending, stupid faggot moron as u are, ho ho ho ho ho

Then why did you quote an article based on that data in one of your many and conflicting rants?

Originally Posted by apollonian

And Butler: u DO NOT understand science, u don't know what it is, u just being a dumb, brainless, lying fag, after all is said and done, and as I've herewith proven.

Well, I will admit that I cannot use science to counter elementary school yard taunting. It's the wrong tool for the job. However, I will mention that elementary school yard taunting doesn't prove anything to those with reality based world views. Your definition of 'proven' is as cockeyed as your definition of 'treason'. Most of the contributors to these forums are pretty much mature, even if a lot of our world views vary from unusual to extreme...

Oh. Wait a minute. I think I may have used a difficult word. Could you ask your mother to explain the word, 'mature'?

Originally Posted by The Rani

Apparently it's relevant to yours, though:

As I said, false (not to mention stereotypical) assumption (ho ho ho!)

H-m-m-m. This from the person who chose to be The Rani. Then again, you may take the philosophical position of your (sur)namesake.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Yeah maybe. You are certainly exploring territory that they don't even want to take a look at.
I'm just glad that playdude has finally found a suitable playmate. Have fun.

Playdude's writing is coherent, even if peppered with insults. Maybe we don't want to look at apollonian's territory because it's an incoherent, frothy mess. It's worse than looking at a junk yard all day.

if one is comfortable with his/her culture and/or secure in his/her belief system, what's the harm in listening to challenges?

None; but Mr. apollonian does not "challenge belief systems," because his rantings are not coherent. So there is no challenge presented.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Really. A lot of people on this forum seem to feel very challenged i.e. threatened.

That's your interpretation. No, there is no challenge from him, because there is no coherent dialogue going on. I think rather it is the patient attempt by some people here to educate him. People feel there is hope for everyone, no matter how deluded or demented. And that may well be true. Hope springs eternal.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

That's your interpretation. No, there is no challenge from him, because there is no coherent dialogue going on. I think rather it is the patient attempt by some people here to educate him. People feel there is hope for everyone, no matter how deluded or demented. And that may well be true. Hope springs eternal.

He did provide an excuse for reviewing Climate Change 101 and Turning Theory 101. Alas, he provides no such opportunity for the 102 level. He doesn't know enough about the subjects to throw up anything but the simplest of opposing perspectives. I found the Second Amendment discussion on the Should the US constitution be scrapped? thread much more satisfying. Apollo provides the opportunity for the proverbial battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. It's only entertaining for the first few rounds.

He also provides a classic example of values lock. Absolutely unable to hear what he doesn't want to hear.

And, as has been suggested, he is funny and entertaining for a while, until it becomes repetitive.

Originally Posted by apollonian

And no Butler, 1st amendment DOES NOT allow treason or advocacy of it, sorry. Yes, u're kinda' right: ONE OF US is in for rude surprise, ho ho ho ho

Just out of curiosity, could you provide an example or two of people being found guilty of treason for advocating in a non violent way an unusual interpretation of the Constitution? There weren't even many treason trials at the end of the Civil War. That's where I would look for treason trials, and perhaps around the time of the McCarthy era witch hunts. Have you looked at past treason trials to verify the legal precedents? Someone with a reality based world view would compare his fantasies with reality before shooting off his mouth.

I'm expecting you can't name such treason trials, no more than you were able to name the two "natural cycles" that produced the record warm year around the turn of the millennium. Robert E. Lee? Stupid? You are just amazingly ignorant in the fields you claim to know things about. Schoolyard insults will only get you so far.

You do have an amazingly rich fantasy life, though.

Originally Posted by apollonian

And I "heard" everything u had to say, lying moron (as usual). "Values lock"?--just sticking-up for principle, eh?--fag like u doesn't like it--not my fault, scum.

Sticking up to principle. Values lock. Exactly. Every once in a while you get something just right. (Are you familiar with Saddam Hussain's "Golden BB" theory of antiaircraft fire?) You will cling to your values and way of perceiving the world beyond reason, beyond fact, and beyond science.

So will most anyone else on the board. Well, some on the board have science first values, hi MikeBert, but otherwise...

I hope you don't think you are actually changing anyone's world views or values with your posts?

Originally Posted by apollonian

We notice u don't deny u're fag, eh? Ho ho ho ho ho

You have so little credibility that I didn't consider it worth the keystrokes. Still don't.

Another silly question? Is that a royal "we," or do you have a split personality?

Principles. Values. I heard a story, once, about a grandmother who spent a lot of time generously teaching her young granddaughter much of life's wisdom. At last, at the young girl's first day at school, she finally got to put her grandmother's wise words into practice.

"Mommy! Mommy! I didn't touch the principle!"

Originally Posted by apollonian

Butler IS Sweating, Ho Ho Ho

I was sweating a while ago. It is July. Opened a few windows. The seabreeze is blowing through now. Beautiful day.

Is anyone missing a dull dark green powerboat with a big white star painted on either side? Found it floating just off my beach this morning.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Butler: I can't, right off-hand, think of a good, easy, solid legal precedent, as u demand, BUT remember: ultimately, it's all a matter of persuading a jury and choosing the right jury, eh, ho ho ho ho--just think about that. There's no doubt u're traitor, liar, fag, psycho, etc. Keep up w. ur smarmy, patronizing attitude though--all the easier to crush u when time comes, eh?

Of course you haven't got a good, easy, solid legal precent. You've got nothing but your rich fantasy life.

I think I've mentioned before that many are drawn to these forums out of wish fulfillment. The theory says that the country could change, will change, in a big way. Lots of us anticipate that the change will come about by most of the country realizing how brilliant our own world view and values are.

I am not worried at all that a vast number of Americans will suddenly adopt your views on life and politics. Really. I'm not. Not at all.

But I doubt you are worried about my perspective triumphing, either. As you sense my "smarmy, patronizing attitude," so I sense yours. This is one of the symptoms of values lock. We are all so certain that our own values are correct that most of us will seem "smarmy, patronizing" to those who would disagree.

But read your history. Remember what I said about broken equilibrium. For many many years, conservatives clinging to the old traditional ways can lock society in place. It takes many many years for the need to change to overcome the power of traditional values. Still, technology marches on. The pressure to adapt society to changing science, economics and environment continues to build, more so in urban areas than in the country. About every four score and seven years, a new birth of freedom comes. King's powers fade. Slaves are freed. Tyrants fall. Poverty is pushed back. Wealth is redistributed. Rights are extended to those who had them not. Men become more equal.

Great things happen.

Sorry if my karma keeps running over your dogma, but that's the way history has been flowing.

I have let the accusations of homosexuality slide because I have nothing against homosexuality. Gay is OK.(I can't get a good rhyme for "lesbian". I am militant, of course -- in my opposition to violent homophobia, something that can get people badly injured if not killed. The accusation of messing around with underage boys is an accusation of a serious, vile, inexcusable crime. I'd have the same problem with dirty old men having carnal relationships with underage girls, too.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Including the person who tried to get his posts and his thread deleted?

He was offended. That is not having his culture and belief system challenged. He is not quaking in his boots thinking that apollonian has challenged his worldview or opinions. And that's only one person, not "a lot of people."

You, on the other hand, went along with his senseless rantings in saying that I should not say "I'm God," because that is not being "humble." Get with it, Doctor. Knowing your chart, I know you should know better than that.

Originally Posted by apollonian

And in retrospect: it's most interesting, pathological and inveterate liar that u are, u'd invoke reason, science, and fact--WHEN THE IRONY is u don't give a rat's behind about these things which all take SECOND place to ur moralism--which is basis upon which u lie, for example, for "climate-change," in style of Plato and Strauss's "noble lie."

What a sublime liar u really and truly are, u scum--u're Jew aren't u?--u sure ain't Christian, worshipper of TRUTH aboe all/any other precept, u filth. A Jewwy faggy pathological liar, u really are, eh?

Asking my religion isn't quite the correct question. You should have asked my world view and values. Religion isn't the primary factor in how I see things, in what I do. It is a matter of priorities.

First comes learning through observing the world, empiricism, science. Newton's Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica makes a decent first principles paper. I've nothing against Aristotle, but for many centuries his work was essentially worshiped. He became the center of a faith based cult. It was only after Newton that the scientific world view really took off, transforming society, becoming at least as important as the faith based perspectives.

Second would be the Enlightenment philosophy and political perspective. The early paragraphs of Jefferson's Declaration of Independence make for a fine statement of values. I'll give honorable mention to Lincoln's Gettysburg Address and Second Inaugural. I'd counter the optimistic and idealistic Americans with a touch of Winston Churchill's wry wit, though. "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

Only third would I get to religion. At that, my perspective is a bit complex. The Catholic nuns got their first shot at me as a small one. I had a problem with a view of the world where you end up being tortured for not following a specific and questionable moral code. Burn in hell for eating meat on Friday? After Catholicism I visited Born Again Protestant, Wiccan, Taoism and neopaganism. If asked, I now claim to be a devout agnostic. Religion generally provides a good solid moral compass, slightly different from country to country, from century to century. There is much wisdom to be found in many places, though I didn't find any one system to be perfect. I did find many practitioners of many religions that would make good neighbors. I've nothing against most religious practitioners.

There are exceptions. One does run into worshipers of Jesus-the-bigot. Religion is used as an excuse to hate and persecute this ethnic group, that religion, or those of a given sexual orientation. I find these people to generally have perverted the spirit of the founder of their church. Hate as the central meme of Christ? When one sees the results in places like northern Ireland or the Middle East, one can only wonder how people can stray so far from the wisdom they supposedly adhere to. How can people create and worship a god of hate?

I somehow missed Judaism. Oh, the Catholic nuns didn't entirely skip the Old Testament. When studying Tarot during my neo-pagan years, I did often lay out and meditate upon a Tree of Life Tarot spread which borrows from Jewish tradition. (I attended a small meeting where a teacher intended to review the meaning of the major arcana. She was going to lay out the Tree of Life Tarot spread as a learning tool, but she found she had forgotten her reference work. I laid it out from memory.) I have a vague idea of where the Jews are coming from. Still, it's one of my weaker perspectives in my third priority grouping.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Sure it is. He wanted an entire thread deleted because he didn't like the content:

Yes, the content is offensive; it does not mean he is threatened in his opinions. Ho ho ho

My point still stands; acknowledge the point; or are you threatened by the truth? ho ho ho

As for your bitching and moaning about my comment that it's better to be humble than to "be God," get over it already. That's my opinion and you can go screw yourself if you don't like it (ho ho ho!)

You ought to know better than to make such comments, you bitch ho ho ho

You forgot the ho ho ho

Originally Posted by The Rani

LOL
That's the spirit, Eric!

LOL! I swear I thought the exact same thing!


Prince

PS:

Originally Posted by Rani

But it needs some editing. My suggestion:

You ought to know better than to make such comments, you two-faced lying cunt!

FWIW, I don't think you're 'two-faced' at all.
(tee-hee! )