Originally Posted by B Butler

I heard a story of a computer programmer getting into an intense argument with a bank teller about the balance of his account. They just could not agree... until the programmer realized he had been spending too much time at work doing arithmetic in base 8.

I can believe it.

The programmer must have been educated in the New Math

lol

Originally Posted by The Rani

Yes. And Your Holiness, who knows all, has now reached the end of wisdom.

The end of the beginning.



.... the Awakening!

Originally Posted by apollonian

No f**king shit--I require PROOF, like that of sense-perception. Newsflash: humans are sinners, and if u don't demand proof, u know what?--there's a word for it, u're a gosh-darned SUCKER. And here we have Butler the sucker encouraging others to be suckers too, and if one is reluctant to so being a sucker, Butler says he lives in "fantasy world."

And here's the kicker Butler, baby: u're SUCH an infernal sucker--u've suckered urself. "Climate-change" and "global-warming" are certified frauds, by liars who've LIED AND LIED AND LIED AND LIED over and over and over and over and over--and a brainless, scummy, stupid sucker like Butler NEVER gets the msg--NEVER LEARNS--that's how STUPID u are, Butler.

HEY BUTLER: WHY do u think they changed the name fm "global-warming" now to "climate-change," u idiot?--it's because "global warming" BECAME SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DIS-CREDITED w. the repeated lies and lying by liars and scum, including Al Gore, et al.

I live near the coast. It seems a shame to be so close to the sea and not get out on the water once in a while. One of my favorite excuses for going out to sea is whale watching cruises. As a result, I have seen close up with my personal senses the comparative size of whales and whale watch boats.

"What Really Happened" is a joke. You say you don't trust others for fact or figures, but you trust "What Really Happened?"

When you at least try to take personal observations, let me know. Your opinion might be worth something, then.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I know Bob, that's your view. Stick with it. Myself, I swam in the opposite direction, since my Awakening in the sixties, my "contact high." I discovered a different path for myself, one that brightened up the dull, flat and weary first-turning world, and it does provide answers. Without it, I would only have a world that offers nothing for me.

I did try to immerse myself in various religious and esoteric traditions. Yes, there are some unifying themes commonly found. I have kept these broad common themes even while leaving the individual specific systems behind.

But given a choice, it is my nature to learn from observing the world rather than embracing a religious perspective. That's me. That's not you. We're on different paths.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I'd be left in vandal's world

No fun, that.

Vandal is unusual even by the standards of high school teachers.

I had a pointed discussion with the head of my high school's math department after he rejected my personal definition of division by zero. Couldn't argue with argument by authority. "Division by zero is undefined!" He seemed to think if one repeated the phrase often with increasing volume, it became so. Shrug. Move on.

A year later, starting engineering school, I was surprised when the issue came up in all four of my first quarter freshman classes. "Infinity" said the professors of calculus, physics and electronics. One of them went on to say that "undefined" was for little kids. "Undefined" said the philosophy professor.

But the philosophy department got in the last word. Years later, in passing, they covered the issue of various degrees of infinity, and proofs that some infinities are larger than others. It turns out that division by zero is very well defined indeed.

Since then I have never trusted a pontificating high school teacher.

Just in case anyone is still reading this forum for information, as opposed to debating and hurling insults.

Sure, its been a cool year in much of the US. But for the planet as a whole.... From Slate.

New data released Monday shows humanity has just unlocked another achievement in the race to cook the planet: The last three months were collectively the warmest ever experienced since record-keeping began in the late 1800s.The Japan Meteorological Agency said June 2014 was the warmest June globally since at least 1891, when its dataset begins. This follows May 2014, which was the warmest May globally on record, which follows April 2014, which was the warmest April globally on record.



Taken as a whole, the just-finished three-month period was about 0.68 degrees Celsius (1.22 degrees Fahrenheit) above the 20^th-century average. That may not sound like much, but the added warmth has been enough to provide a nudge to a litany of weather and climate events worldwide. Arctic sea ice is trending near record lows for this time of year, abnormally warm ocean water helped spawn the earliest hurricane ever recorded to make landfall in North Carolina, and a rash of heat waves have plagued cities from India to California to the Middle East. In addition to the relentless push by human-caused global warming, this year’s extra heat comes in part because of a building El Niño emerging in the Pacific.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Hey dumbass: I ALWAYS take "personal observations," unlike a moron like u who merely takes others' word--what a fool. And WhatReallyHappened.com is magnificent site, even though it's run by a Jew-by-race, Mike Rivero. U don't like WhatReallyHappened.com because it defends 2nd amendment and other things, u scummy liar--it isn't because the info isn't excellent. U suck, u brainless scum, traitor, moron, liar--u'll be lucky to make it to purgatory.

Again, read my posts in the "Should the US Constituion be Scrapped" thread. I'm the one trying to make the individual right position clear. Meanwhile, I haven't seen much to indicate you know more about the 2nd Amendment than you know about the Gettysburg campaign. Lee attacked stupidly, indeed...

I also hold my gods to the same standard they hold me. I don't torture people. The Christian God does, at least if you listen to many modern interpretations of Christianity. Is there anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said he favored torture of sinners in the afterlife? I always figured the torture part was added well after Jesus ascended.

I call myself a devout agnostic rather than an atheist. I don't exclude the possibility of a divine being. I just question the morality of the divine being being pushed by many major western churches and yourself. Many of the values are positively medieval. Torture those who disobey, indeed.

Meanwhile, if by your standards only personal observations are valid regarding global warming, and if you have not been taking personal observations, you have no right to an opinion on the subject.

Have you ever been on a whale watch?

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Just in case anyone is still reading this forum for information, as opposed to debating and hurling insults.

Appreciated.

As Apollo isn't going to do his homework assignment, I might as well post the answers. The record warm year near the turn of the millennium was 1998. The two cycles that reached their hottest point together creating that hot year were the solar cycle and a monster El Nino. We are now back near the top of the solar cycle. An El Nino is indeed projected in the near future.

Originally Posted by B Butler

... Vandal is unusual even by the standards of high school teachers.

I had a pointed discussion with the head of my high school's math department after he rejected my personal definition of division by zero. Couldn't argue with argument by authority. "Division by zero is undefined!" He seemed to think if one repeated the phrase often with increasing volume, it became so. Shrug. Move on.

A year later, starting engineering school, I was surprised when the issue came up in all four of my first quarter freshman classes. "Infinity" said the professors of calculus, physics and electronics. One of them went on to say that "undefined" was for little kids. "Undefined" said the philosophy professor.

But the philosophy department got in the last word. Years later, in passing, they covered the issue of various degrees of infinity, and proofs that some infinities are larger than others. It turns out that division by zero is very well defined indeed.

Since then I have never trusted a pontificating high school teacher.

L'Hopital's Rule is one of those math concepts that seems absurd, but isn't. You do get an answer when you divide zero by zero, if you know the differences between the two zeros.

Originally Posted by B Butler

When you at least try to take personal observations, let me know. Your opinion might be worth something, then.

Probably not.

Originally Posted by B Butler

Appreciated.

As Apollo isn't going to do his homework assignment, I might as well post the answers. The record warm year near the turn of the millennium was 1998. The two cycles that reached their hottest point together creating that hot year were the solar cycle and a monster El Nino. We are now back near the top of the solar cycle. An El Nino is indeed projected in the near future.

Any bets on winter 2014-15? El Ninos tend to last longer at times, so a warm 2014-15 may only be preface to an even warmer 2015-16. And the summer in between ...

Originally Posted by B Butler

I did try to immerse myself in various religious and esoteric traditions. Yes, there are some unifying themes commonly found. I have kept these broad common themes even while leaving the individual specific systems behind.

That's not a bad idea at all.

But given a choice, it is my nature to learn from observing the world rather than embracing a religious perspective. That's me. That's not you. We're on different paths.

Yes, but I have not "embraced a religious perspective," really. I am just observing the spiritual as well as the "externally" observable world. But both are "verifiable" in their different ways. I understand both paths, even if I have plenty to learn.

Vandal is unusual even by the standards of high school teachers.

I had a pointed discussion with the head of my high school's math department after he rejected my personal definition of division by zero. Couldn't argue with argument by authority. "Division by zero is undefined!" He seemed to think if one repeated the phrase often with increasing volume, it became so. Shrug. Move on.

A real piece of work, our Vandal.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Any bets on winter 2014-15? El Ninos tend to last longer at times, so a warm 2014-15 may only be preface to an even warmer 2015-16. And the summer in between ...

Supposed to be mild. At least I hope so after the last winter.

Originally Posted by B Butler

I heard a story of a computer programmer getting into an intense argument with a bank teller about the balance of his account. They just could not agree... until the programmer realized he had been spending too much time at work doing arithmetic in base 8.

I can believe it.

In Base 8, 4+6 = 12_eight

Originally Posted by The Rani

(to me)
I don't have a problem with you posting "4+6=8,"

In Base 7 one would get "13". That said, who would use Base 7?
In Base 9 one would get "11".
In Base 10 we all know the right answer.
In Base 11 or something larger we would get a single digit.

Unless someone is doing some really-crazy math one could not get 4+6 = 8.

You missed the point. I was only depicting craziness, and I chose to anticipate non-base-ten arithmetic.

Originally Posted by The Rani

The way I see it, most of your posts depict craziness. That's why I stopped reading them.
But it's cool. Keep on keeping on.

If you think his posts are crazy, then maybe that's why you also think he is "threatened" by apollonian's lunatic ravings. But, I trust I have corrected you on that; and you also are being hereby corrected on your opinion of brower's posts. Wordy; yes. Crazy; no, he's one of the more sensible posters.

But then, he is a boomer, and you are Gen X, so there's the rub I guess.

Originally Posted by apollonian

And of course, Butler doesn't know if any of this is even true, ho ho ho ho--it's most probably all just more lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies, as usual for climate-change liars and advocates.

Do you think the solar cycle is controversial? Difficult to measure? Hard to see in the land temperature data bases? Do you think an El Nino is not projected for the near future? Do you think that if you repeat your ignorance and schoolyard level taunts ad-nausium they become contagious?

Well, I will admit that others on the forum are adopting the style of your schoolyard taunts.

And I guess if you create your own definition of 'know' and 'lies', one can decide in one's fantasy world whether someone fits the meanings or not.

Not impressed.

Originally Posted by apollonian

Butler, u ignorant scum: (a) Nazis were heroes who fought the kikes and quite possibly saved Western civ. (Snip)

So u see, "USURY" IS NOT NOT NOT NOT mere charging of interest, but rather the issuing of fiat-money which causes increased loans, which loans become un-payable when the inflation is necessarily halted, in order to prevent runaway and hyper-inflation.

As flat money theory wasn't concocted until the 11th Century, and the Judeo-Christian sin of usury was proclaimed in the Old Testament, I seriously doubt that the jewish holy man who read God's mind on the matter was concerned with money theory. No matter. Money theory isn't my concern. I dislike hate crimes... homocide, genocide, assaults, rapes, theft.... the sort of behaviors followers of Christ-the-Bigot might favor.

I'll just say I'm against hate crimes and leave it at that. You should read the word 'dislike' to be an understatement.

Originally Posted by apollonian

(a) No, I'm not going to read ur stupid balderdash--it's mostly just stupid crap as I've demonstrated, after all--one can only take so much of ur dumbness, don't forget. All individuals & citizens MUST BE ARMED--as soldiers against ZOG (Zionist occupation government), PERIOD. All Fed and state laws regarding right to be armed are invalid, period, as all individuals have the obvious natural right to self-defence, hence to be armed w. fire-arms. Essentially only (some) criminals and traitors can be legally dis-armed.

Well, the red emphasized bit does contain a good deal of wisdom. I shall keep it in mind when reading your stuff.

The founding fathers, given that the English Civil War, French and Indian War and American Revolution were fairly recent memory, honestly and firmly believed that a well regulated militia was necessary to the security of a free state. That was then. From the War of 1812 on, true militia units were seen as increasingly ineffective. Professional military men strove hard to defund their training and keep them far from real battlefields. If one looks at the historical record, we haven't depended on a well regulated militia for meaningful security tasks for a long time.

I've often proposed that the old militia laws be invoked. Congress could write a militia manual of arms full of regulations that all adult males would be required to follow. The states could use their power to appoint officers, who could issue orders to adult males, requiring regular training sessions in the use of arms. The Congress could even change the US Code and get the ladies involved.

There are a lot of people who remember the Right to bear arms, but seem to forget that with rights come duties. The Constitution has the tools to handle a well armed population. They just haven't been invoked in a long long time.

Originally Posted by apollonian

(b) I don't claim to know too much about Gettysburg, but I do remember Bevin Alexander (noted author) explaining Yanks were sooooooooooo scared of rebs, they hunkered down up on the high ground. Even Longstreet advised maneuvering to get the yanks to attack. Alexander explains Lee had Harrisburg, Philadelphia, or Baltimore, even Wash. DC for the taking, the only thing the yanks capable of doing being to desperately trying to maneuver to block Lee, allowing then a battle of movement which would probably have favored the Rebs. Thus the basic strategy seem pretty clear, though I have little more research on the subject.

Alexander did not directly observe the Civil War with his personal senses. Doesn't that make his writing worthless by your standards?

If the Yankees had maintained their old habit of marching only six miles a day, Alexander would be very much correct. Problem is, they didn't. Lee was far from his bases of supply. He had to disperse his men to raid for food. While he was dispersed, he wouldn't have a large enough force to fight a concentrated Army of the Potomac. Meade, by changing his marching doctrine, by putting a large force relatively close to Lee, forced Lee to concentrate. Once that happened, one had to fight or starve. Meade had the advantage of being far closer to his base of supply.

Meade, Longstreet, and not enough generals in World War I saw the wisdom of digging in on the high ground. At Gettysburg, Longstreet saw the strength of the Union position, and wanted to reshuffle the deck, choose another battlefield. Preferably, Longstreet would rather have been dug in on the high ground. His opinion has considerable merit. However, as you say, the Union was feeling picked on by all of Stonewall's flank attacks. They wanted to fight defensively from a well dug in position just as much if not more than Longstreet. If the campaign had been Meade vs Longstreet, both dedicated to sitting on hills behind stone walls, the decisive factor might have been the length of the supply lines. Meade could have sat on hills indefinitely, waiting on an attack that Longstreet would have been reluctant to launch. The Confederates had a ticking clock.

I suspect that Lee could have done very well indeed if he were fighting Hooker in the style suggested by Alexander. As is, he found himself far from his base of supply fighting an entirely different style of commander. Marching one's army far into the enemy's rear was a bold high risk high reward move. Lots of what ifs possible. The bottom line is that Lee thought he knew how the Army of the Potomac would behave, but it didn't respond as expected.

I vaguely remember a truism... "Amateurs study tactics. Professionals study logistics." As truisms go, it's not bad. A lot of what if style commentaries on the Civil War emphasize tactics over logistics, suggesting that things could have been very different if only the commanders had done what was impossible given logistics.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Any bets on winter 2014-15? El Ninos tend to last longer at times, so a warm 2014-15 may only be preface to an even warmer 2015-16. And the summer in between ...

I'm not a betteing sort of guy, but a quote comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Bette Davis

Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Yes, Master.
Thank You, Master.

Eric? As Apollo said there can be more than one anti-Christ, I think he can have more than one antithesis as well. I'm quite willing to share that way.

But I'm sure hoping The Rani can only have one master.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Damn! Of the fourteen most-lately-posted-in threads in "Politics and Economics", eleven of those threads have their last word emanating from someone on my Ignore List. Three posters, that is.

The fictional characters from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest are saner.

OK, I just made it ten of fourteen.

I'm not sure this makes you a paragon of openness and toleration, but if you are concerned about your own sanity I'm in sympathy.

Someday I might try playing with the ignore list.

The offending posters:

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/wa.../centurion.htm (JDG)

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/wa...htm/klaxon.htm (kathaksung)

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/perv.htm (one aspect of you-know-who)

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/wa...rovocateur.htm (another aspect)

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/wa...ithoutclue.htm (another)

Originally Posted by The Rani

The way I see it, most of your posts depict craziness. That's why I stopped reading them.
But it's cool. Keep on keeping on.

Oddly, I consider myself extremely rational. Depiction of craziness without participating in it takes extreme rationality -- as with Sigmund Freud, one of my intellectual heroes.

Just a little piece on people who do visit the melting ice...

Nothing earth shaking to those who have been following the situation up there, but it does add a small twist on why the melt is going faster than expected. With more open water larger waves are forming. As the larger waves hit thinner ice, the ice breaks into many smaller pieces. This increases the surface area between water and ice, which increases the melt rate.

Just another of those obvious-in-hindsight things.

Yes, this is the issue. It isn't Mr. "A".

Larger waves at the edge of the ice or just under the thinnest parts of the ice zone are a non-trivial feedback loop.

I would also expect bigger storms in the Arctic as the frozen zone shrinks and the waters get warmer, only intensifying the melt.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Yes, Webmaster.
Thank You, Webmaster.

Fixed it!

Thanks!