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Thread: Global Warming - Page 197







Post#4901 at 01-23-2015 02:23 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
That's unfortunate. Eric makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to science, but correcting him is one thing and being an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass about it is another. I have Vandal on ignore, and after reading the quote of that post from yours, he's staying there.
I concur, though I wonder... Who but an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass would call somebody a obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass? It's all too easy to drift away from discussions of issues into personal attacks. Some do it more than others, but we all get tempted at times.

Adapting Vandal's world view values isn't going to cure Vandal.







Post#4902 at 01-23-2015 03:05 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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This year’s biggest climate change news was that 2014 was hottest year on record. Turns out, there’s bigger news: It was also the hottest year in the oceans, which are warming so fast they’re literally breaking the NOAA’s charts.

http://grist.org/living/this-chart-o...ampaign=buffer
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4903 at 01-23-2015 01:28 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Bronco80 View Post
Nice article, but the editors gave it an odd title. The grand majority of oil in the US is used for transportation. Wind and solar aren't going to be able to help out much there, especially in the present.
There is one good way to use of both in a zero-carbon way. Convert the electricity form solar and wind to hydrogen and power vehicles with fuel cells. The full-loop efficiency is roughly 85% ... and getting better all the time.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4904 at 01-23-2015 01:31 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
That's unfortunate. Eric makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to science, but correcting him is one thing and being an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass about it is another. I have Vandal on ignore, and after reading the quote of that post from yours, he's staying there.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was defending Vandal's bad attitude.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#4905 at 01-23-2015 01:31 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
We do still need oil for a while. Solar will eventually be available in sufficient quantity to replace much of the oil. I also would like to see growth in nuclear power until solar is ready. We could do much better if the politicians would negotiate and not grandstand.
H-m-m-m. You're looking for a purple unicorn then. Politicians always grandstand. It's in their job title.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4906 at 01-23-2015 02:17 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
H-m-m-m. You're looking for a purple unicorn then. Politicians always grandstand. It's in their job title.
Unfortunately , you are correct. Maybe a third party would do better.







Post#4907 at 01-23-2015 03:09 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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New concern

Surprise Lake Sheds Light on Underbelly of Greenland's Ice


http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...medium=twitter

… "The finding, detailed in the Jan. 22 issue of the journal Nature, suggests that this process could be important to more accurately modeling how Greenland will respond to climate change and contribute to the already 8 inches of global sea level rise since 1900. Greenland holds enough ice to raise global sea levels by 24 feet, and how much and how quickly it melts could change projections of future sea level rise, which the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change puts between 10 and 32 inches by 2100, including contributions from Greenland’s glaciers.”…

… “What’s left to figure out is whether this is happening with other subglacial lakes around the Greenland ice sheet, as well as whether and how to incorporate the findings into models that are aimed at gauging how much Greenland might change with the warming climate and how much water it could add to the rising seas."







Post#4908 at 01-23-2015 03:45 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Who but an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass would call somebody a obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass?
Tolerance of intolerance is intolerance, not tolerance. It's like basic math: a positive times a negative equals a negative, while a negative times a negative equals a positive. I make no apologies for calling out jerks on their jerkiness, any more than I will apologize for condemning racists and other bigots.

Adapting Vandal's world view values isn't going to cure Vandal.
I don't believe I'm capable of curing Vandal, nor is anyone else except Vandal. If he becomes reasonable and polite, he will have cured himself. Until and unless that happens, he will remain on my ignore list, but when it's appropriate I reserve the right to point out that he's an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#4909 at 01-23-2015 03:56 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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A sliver of a break in the ice.
Keystone XL Pipeline May Force Republicans to Embrace Climate Change

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...medium=twitter
… “ With 15 GOP senators saying Wednesday that humans are having some impact on the climate, and with 52 Republicans rejecting the idea that it’s a “ hoax,” the party’s White House hopefuls could be cast into a campaign season that features environmental issues more than any since perhaps 2008, according to several political observers.”....







Post#4910 at 01-23-2015 04:03 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
This year’s biggest climate change news was that 2014 was hottest year on record. Turns out, there’s bigger news: It was also the hottest year in the oceans, which are warming so fast they’re literally breaking the NOAA’s charts.

http://grist.org/living/this-chart-o...ampaign=buffer
Water, whatever its state (ice, liquid, or vapor/steam) is the definitive buffer for heat due to its high heat capacity. It is so good a buffer for heat that the dominant reality for the climates of coastal Labrador and Ireland, which are at the same latitude, are about as different in temperature regime as Nome and San Francisco. The water off Labrador is Arctic and the water off coastal Ireland is from the Gulf Stream. It's possible to grow palm trees in San Francisco and parts of Ireland. Trees do not thrive in the tundra of Labrador.

Warm the surface waters of the seas and one gets more evaporation and more absolute humidity. Such allows tropical air masses to reach deeper, earlier, and longer into the middle latitudes. One might get such phenomena as "the year without a winter" (2011-2012 was as close as we ever got... in southern Michigan we got a very weak winter and 80F temperatures for several days in March and an early growing season -- but compromised by a summer drought exacerbated by reduced soil moisture because of the lack of winter snow cover). That year the drought made southern Michigan look like the San Joaquin Valley of California.

The next winter I heard someone complain about a winter blizzard and all I could say is that those winter blizzards make good crops, and if you hate the blizzards there is a place for you.




As it is, Michigan farming is on the borderline of needing irrigation due to hot summers for ideal crops -- but get those hot summers beginning in April instead of May, and Michigan farmers will need to bring up groundwater to grow crops. In view of the dispersion and the relative decline of Michigan's #1 industry (automobiles) you may need the product of Michigan's #2 industry (agriculture) more than you need soft winters.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4911 at 01-23-2015 06:27 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
There is one good way to use of both in a zero-carbon way. Convert the electricity form solar and wind to hydrogen and power vehicles with fuel cells. The full-loop efficiency is roughly 85% ... and getting better all the time.
Yes, and batteries are getting better too for same use, and are already doing well in the market.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4912 at 01-23-2015 06:29 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
I don't believe I'm capable of curing Vandal, nor is anyone else except Vandal. If he becomes reasonable and polite, he will have cured himself. Until and unless that happens, he will remain on my ignore list, but when it's appropriate I reserve the right to point out that he's an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass.
Right, and seems a perfectly accurate scientific description of the Vandal species
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4913 at 01-23-2015 08:36 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
<snip>
The next winter I heard someone complain about a winter blizzard and all I could say is that those winter blizzards make good crops, and if you hate the blizzards there is a place for you.
Snow also protects crops like winter wheat from the cold. It also puts a damper down here on brush fires down here. We haven't had much in the way of snow or [rain] and we've had a spate of brush fires. I-35 got shut down a while back due to too much smoke.



No thank you. There's going to be new beach front property, who knows where? Besides that state has sauna weather like Houston. Not to mention this:



As it is, Michigan farming is on the borderline of needing irrigation due to hot summers for ideal crops -- but get those hot summers beginning in April instead of May, and Michigan farmers will need to bring up groundwater to grow crops. In view of the dispersion and the relative decline of Michigan's #1 industry (automobiles) you may need the product of Michigan's #2 industry (agriculture) more than you need soft winters.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...21800914000615

Aquifers have a nasty habit of getting depleted when used for agriculture. Snow is the perfect aquifer recharge precip. It doesn't run off like rain.

Yes, and cold winters do a good job in killing off assorted bug pests.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#4914 at 01-23-2015 10:52 PM by Vandal-72 [at Idaho joined Jul 2012 #posts 1,101]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
That's unfortunate. Eric makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to science, but correcting him is one thing and being an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass about it is another. I have Vandal on ignore, and after reading the quote of that post from yours, he's staying there.
Considering the New Age pablum you've tried to pass off as science fact, I'm not surprised to find out you ignore critics who actually understand the topics.







Post#4915 at 01-23-2015 10:58 PM by Vandal-72 [at Idaho joined Jul 2012 #posts 1,101]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
I concur, though I wonder... Who but an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass would call somebody a obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass? It's all too easy to drift away from discussions of issues into personal attacks. Some do it more than others, but we all get tempted at times.

Adapting Vandal's world view values isn't going to cure Vandal.
Notice also that my invective is usually directed at their arguments or fallacious thinking. Concern trolling like Brian engages in here is a typical deflection strategy used by creationists, global warming denialists, holocaust deniers and New Agers alike.







Post#4916 at 01-23-2015 11:07 PM by Vandal-72 [at Idaho joined Jul 2012 #posts 1,101]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was defending Vandal's bad attitude.
The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.







Post#4917 at 01-23-2015 11:28 PM by Vandal-72 [at Idaho joined Jul 2012 #posts 1,101]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
Tolerance of intolerance is intolerance, not tolerance. I
Nice straw man. Pointing out that Eric or you are talking nonsense is not intolerance. But, you go on and keep stroking that persecution complex.

t's like basic math: a positive times a negative equals a negative, while a negative times a negative equals a positive. I make no apologies for calling out jerks on their jerkiness, any more than I will apologize for condemning racists and other bigots.
And I will make no apologies for calling out liars and pretenders on their deceptions.

Nice of you to engage in some more fallacies by equating being a jerk with racism though. Bravo.

I don't believe I'm capable of curing Vandal, nor is anyone else except Vandal.
I'm not ill. I'm not the one in constant need to deny reality in order to support my personal wishes for how the universe should work. I accept the universe as it is. That's as close to healthy as we can reasonably expect.

If he becomes reasonable and polite, he will have cured himself. Until and unless that happens, he will remain on my ignore list, but when it's appropriate I reserve the right to point out that he's an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass.
Sniping from your ignore list shelter. How brave of you.







Post#4918 at 01-24-2015 03:28 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Vandal-72 View Post
Considering the New Age pablum you've tried to pass off as science fact, I'm not surprised to find out you ignore critics who actually understand the topics.
Now you are sounding like the Reddit Atheist Brigade with their rampant naive Scientism and tendency to insult people who disagree with them.

As an unashamed Panpsychist I welcome you accusing me of "New Age Pablum", too.

I hope you don't act like this towards your students.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#4919 at 01-24-2015 03:33 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Vandal-72 View Post
The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.
Your problem is that you're unconsciously using criticizing Eric's ignorance and strong tendency towards confirmation bias and wishful thinking as a platform with you can start attacking anything that contradicts naive scientism in general.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#4920 at 01-24-2015 05:21 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Right, and seems a perfectly accurate scientific description of the Vandal species
Eric, you should strive to be scientifically correct in your language. Technically, he can't be counted as a species unless he only reproduces with himself.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.







Post#4921 at 01-24-2015 05:38 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow Raspy Inhale, Raspy Exhale...

Quote Originally Posted by Vandal-72 View Post
Notice also that my invective is usually directed at their arguments or fallacious thinking. Concern trolling like Brian engages in here is a typical deflection strategy used by creationists, global warming denialists, holocaust deniers and New Agers alike.
[special effects, "Slips on Darth Varder Helmet. Raspy life support sounds begin."]

Feel the Anger flowing through you. Feel the Hate. Feel the Strength it gives you. Feel the Power of the Dark Side of the Force. Your puny scientific arguments are as nothing without them.

But be aware. Anger brings power. Power brings anger. They are additive, they shall aid you, but if you do not fully embrace them, you may not achieve your Destiny.

[/special effects]

Hmm... Not sure I should type in the middle of the night.







Post#4922 at 01-24-2015 09:40 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Vandal-72 View Post
The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.
With all due respect -- I have been able to disagree with Eric on astrology without getting into a heated argument, which is more than I can say with Holocaust deniers, Believe-It-or-Burn-in-Hell religious fundamentalists (the most fervent creationists are in this category), homophobes, True Believers in political personality cults, sexual sadists, ultra-nationalists, and deniers of global warming -- or a few years ago, those who denied the link between smoking and pathologies of health. Nobody is perfectly rational, and in view of the inadequacy of pure reason in creating a humane social order (there were people who could rationally plan the Holodomor and the Holocaust) we have a need for some irrational conscience. Just to have some enjoyment in life, one can't reject not-so-rational esthetics and love -- lest one rationally contemplate a Valium-and-vodka cocktail as youth vanishes and pains of arthritis take some of the fun out of life.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4923 at 01-24-2015 10:01 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Encouraging sign for long term.
Tenured Faculty Position in Solar Energy

“Binghamton University invites applications for a tenured faculty position in the area of solar research.”…
The on-line application link is available at: http://binghamton.interviewexchange....sp?JOBID=55419







Post#4924 at 01-24-2015 04:59 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Vandal-72 View Post
The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.
Eric may be many things but he's no climate change denier. Where on earth did you get the idea he was?
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#4925 at 01-24-2015 06:27 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Eric, you should strive to be scientifically correct in your language. Technically, he can't be counted as a species unless he only reproduces with himself.
That's possible, but nothing we can confirm.

It's perfectly possible to argue politely with the unscientific. I do it myself often. When I see someone doing this, I admire the effort as an attempt to educate. When I see someone engaging in personal attacks against people who present ignorant views, I see someone attempting to silence rather than educate.

And when I see someone engaged in personal attacks against people who present views contradicting the attacker's own ignorant and faith-based positions, I see someone mimicking the behavior of hard-line fundamentalists, protecting their sacred truths against defilement by the infidel.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903
-----------------------------------------