Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That's unfortunate. Eric makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to science, but correcting him is one thing and being an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass about it is another. I have Vandal on ignore, and after reading the quote of that post from yours, he's staying there.

I concur, though I wonder... Who but an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass would call somebody a obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass? It's all too easy to drift away from discussions of issues into personal attacks. Some do it more than others, but we all get tempted at times.

Adapting Vandal's world view values isn't going to cure Vandal.

This year’s biggest climate change news was that 2014 was hottest year on record. Turns out, there’s bigger news: It was also the hottest year in the oceans, which are warming so fast they’re literally breaking the NOAA’s charts.

http://grist.org/living/this-chart-o...ampaign=buffer

Originally Posted by Bronco80

Nice article, but the editors gave it an odd title. The grand majority of oil in the US is used for transportation. Wind and solar aren't going to be able to help out much there, especially in the present.

There is one good way to use of both in a zero-carbon way. Convert the electricity form solar and wind to hydrogen and power vehicles with fuel cells. The full-loop efficiency is roughly 85% ... and getting better all the time.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That's unfortunate. Eric makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to science, but correcting him is one thing and being an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass about it is another. I have Vandal on ignore, and after reading the quote of that post from yours, he's staying there.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was defending Vandal's bad attitude.

Originally Posted by radind

We do still need oil for a while. Solar will eventually be available in sufficient quantity to replace much of the oil. I also would like to see growth in nuclear power until solar is ready. We could do much better if the politicians would negotiate and not grandstand.

H-m-m-m. You're looking for a purple unicorn then. Politicians always grandstand. It's in their job title.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

H-m-m-m. You're looking for a purple unicorn then. Politicians always grandstand. It's in their job title.

Unfortunately , you are correct. Maybe a third party would do better.

New concern

Surprise Lake Sheds Light on Underbelly of Greenland's Ice

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...medium=twitter

… "The finding, detailed in the Jan. 22 issue of the journal Nature, suggests that this process could be important to more accurately modeling how Greenland will respond to climate change and contribute to the already 8 inches of global sea level rise since 1900. Greenland holds enough ice to raise global sea levels by 24 feet, and how much and how quickly it melts could change projections of future sea level rise, which the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change puts between 10 and 32 inches by 2100, including contributions from Greenland’s glaciers.”…

… “What’s left to figure out is whether this is happening with other subglacial lakes around the Greenland ice sheet, as well as whether and how to incorporate the findings into models that are aimed at gauging how much Greenland might change with the warming climate and how much water it could add to the rising seas."

Originally Posted by B Butler

Who but an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass would call somebody a obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass?

Tolerance of intolerance is intolerance, not tolerance. It's like basic math: a positive times a negative equals a negative, while a negative times a negative equals a positive. I make no apologies for calling out jerks on their jerkiness, any more than I will apologize for condemning racists and other bigots.

Adapting Vandal's world view values isn't going to cure Vandal.

I don't believe I'm capable of curing Vandal, nor is anyone else except Vandal. If he becomes reasonable and polite, he will have cured himself. Until and unless that happens, he will remain on my ignore list, but when it's appropriate I reserve the right to point out that he's an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass.

A sliver of a break in the ice.

Keystone XL Pipeline May Force Republicans to Embrace Climate Change

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...medium=twitter
… “ With 15 GOP senators saying Wednesday that humans are having some impact on the climate, and with 52 Republicans rejecting the idea that it’s a “ hoax,” the party’s White House hopefuls could be cast into a campaign season that features environmental issues more than any since perhaps 2008, according to several political observers.”....

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

This year’s biggest climate change news was that 2014 was hottest year on record. Turns out, there’s bigger news: It was also the hottest year in the oceans, which are warming so fast they’re literally breaking the NOAA’s charts.

http://grist.org/living/this-chart-o...ampaign=buffer

Water, whatever its state (ice, liquid, or vapor/steam) is the definitive buffer for heat due to its high heat capacity. It is so good a buffer for heat that the dominant reality for the climates of coastal Labrador and Ireland, which are at the same latitude, are about as different in temperature regime as Nome and San Francisco. The water off Labrador is Arctic and the water off coastal Ireland is from the Gulf Stream. It's possible to grow palm trees in San Francisco and parts of Ireland. Trees do not thrive in the tundra of Labrador.

Warm the surface waters of the seas and one gets more evaporation and more absolute humidity. Such allows tropical air masses to reach deeper, earlier, and longer into the middle latitudes. One might get such phenomena as "the year without a winter" (2011-2012 was as close as we ever got... in southern Michigan we got a very weak winter and 80F temperatures for several days in March and an early growing season -- but compromised by a summer drought exacerbated by reduced soil moisture because of the lack of winter snow cover). That year the drought made southern Michigan look like the San Joaquin Valley of California.

The next winter I heard someone complain about a winter blizzard and all I could say is that those winter blizzards make good crops, and if you hate the blizzards there is a place for you.




As it is, Michigan farming is on the borderline of needing irrigation due to hot summers for ideal crops -- but get those hot summers beginning in April instead of May, and Michigan farmers will need to bring up groundwater to grow crops. In view of the dispersion and the relative decline of Michigan's #1 industry (automobiles) you may need the product of Michigan's #2 industry (agriculture) more than you need soft winters.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

There is one good way to use of both in a zero-carbon way. Convert the electricity form solar and wind to hydrogen and power vehicles with fuel cells. The full-loop efficiency is roughly 85% ... and getting better all the time.

Yes, and batteries are getting better too for same use, and are already doing well in the market.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

I don't believe I'm capable of curing Vandal, nor is anyone else except Vandal. If he becomes reasonable and polite, he will have cured himself. Until and unless that happens, he will remain on my ignore list, but when it's appropriate I reserve the right to point out that he's an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass.

Right, and seems a perfectly accurate scientific description of the Vandal species

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

<snip>
The next winter I heard someone complain about a winter blizzard and all I could say is that those winter blizzards make good crops, and if you hate the blizzards there is a place for you.

Snow also protects crops like winter wheat from the cold. It also puts a damper down here on brush fires down here. We haven't had much in the way of snow or [rain] and we've had a spate of brush fires. I-35 got shut down a while back due to too much smoke.

No thank you. There's going to be new beach front property, who knows where? Besides that state has sauna weather like Houston. Not to mention this:

As it is, Michigan farming is on the borderline of needing irrigation due to hot summers for ideal crops -- but get those hot summers beginning in April instead of May, and Michigan farmers will need to bring up groundwater to grow crops. In view of the dispersion and the relative decline of Michigan's #1 industry (automobiles) you may need the product of Michigan's #2 industry (agriculture) more than you need soft winters.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...21800914000615

Aquifers have a nasty habit of getting depleted when used for agriculture. Snow is the perfect aquifer recharge precip. It doesn't run off like rain.

Yes, and cold winters do a good job in killing off assorted bug pests.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

That's unfortunate. Eric makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to science, but correcting him is one thing and being an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass about it is another. I have Vandal on ignore, and after reading the quote of that post from yours, he's staying there.

Considering the New Age pablum you've tried to pass off as science fact, I'm not surprised to find out you ignore critics who actually understand the topics.

Originally Posted by B Butler

I concur, though I wonder... Who but an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass would call somebody a obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass? It's all too easy to drift away from discussions of issues into personal attacks. Some do it more than others, but we all get tempted at times.

Adapting Vandal's world view values isn't going to cure Vandal.

Notice also that my invective is usually directed at their arguments or fallacious thinking. Concern trolling like Brian engages in here is a typical deflection strategy used by creationists, global warming denialists, holocaust deniers and New Agers alike.

Originally Posted by Odin

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was defending Vandal's bad attitude.

The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

Tolerance of intolerance is intolerance, not tolerance. I

Nice straw man. Pointing out that Eric or you are talking nonsense is not intolerance. But, you go on and keep stroking that persecution complex.

t's like basic math: a positive times a negative equals a negative, while a negative times a negative equals a positive. I make no apologies for calling out jerks on their jerkiness, any more than I will apologize for condemning racists and other bigots.

And I will make no apologies for calling out liars and pretenders on their deceptions.

Nice of you to engage in some more fallacies by equating being a jerk with racism though. Bravo.

I don't believe I'm capable of curing Vandal, nor is anyone else except Vandal.

I'm not ill. I'm not the one in constant need to deny reality in order to support my personal wishes for how the universe should work. I accept the universe as it is. That's as close to healthy as we can reasonably expect.

If he becomes reasonable and polite, he will have cured himself. Until and unless that happens, he will remain on my ignore list, but when it's appropriate I reserve the right to point out that he's an obnoxious, socially-dysfunctional ass.

Sniping from your ignore list shelter. How brave of you.

Originally Posted by Vandal-72

Considering the New Age pablum you've tried to pass off as science fact, I'm not surprised to find out you ignore critics who actually understand the topics.

Now you are sounding like the Reddit Atheist Brigade with their rampant naive Scientism and tendency to insult people who disagree with them.

As an unashamed Panpsychist I welcome you accusing me of "New Age Pablum", too.

I hope you don't act like this towards your students.

Originally Posted by Vandal-72

The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.

Your problem is that you're unconsciously using criticizing Eric's ignorance and strong tendency towards confirmation bias and wishful thinking as a platform with you can start attacking anything that contradicts naive scientism in general.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Right, and seems a perfectly accurate scientific description of the Vandal species

Eric, you should strive to be scientifically correct in your language. Technically, he can't be counted as a species unless he only reproduces with himself.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Originally Posted by Vandal-72

Notice also that my invective is usually directed at their arguments or fallacious thinking. Concern trolling like Brian engages in here is a typical deflection strategy used by creationists, global warming denialists, holocaust deniers and New Agers alike.

[special effects, "Slips on Darth Varder Helmet. Raspy life support sounds begin."]

Feel the Anger flowing through you. Feel the Hate. Feel the Strength it gives you. Feel the Power of the Dark Side of the Force. Your puny scientific arguments are as nothing without them.

But be aware. Anger brings power. Power brings anger. They are additive, they shall aid you, but if you do not fully embrace them, you may not achieve your Destiny.

[/special effects]

Hmm... Not sure I should type in the middle of the night.

Originally Posted by Vandal-72

The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.

With all due respect -- I have been able to disagree with Eric on astrology without getting into a heated argument, which is more than I can say with Holocaust deniers, Believe-It-or-Burn-in-Hell religious fundamentalists (the most fervent creationists are in this category), homophobes, True Believers in political personality cults, sexual sadists, ultra-nationalists, and deniers of global warming -- or a few years ago, those who denied the link between smoking and pathologies of health. Nobody is perfectly rational, and in view of the inadequacy of pure reason in creating a humane social order (there were people who could rationally plan the Holodomor and the Holocaust) we have a need for some irrational conscience. Just to have some enjoyment in life, one can't reject not-so-rational esthetics and love -- lest one rationally contemplate a Valium-and-vodka cocktail as youth vanishes and pains of arthritis take some of the fun out of life.

Encouraging sign for long term.

Tenured Faculty Position in Solar Energy

“Binghamton University invites applications for a tenured faculty position in the area of solar research.”…
The on-line application link is available at: http://binghamton.interviewexchange....sp?JOBID=55419

Originally Posted by Vandal-72

The attitude is carefully constructed and used to burrow past the typical strategy of irrational posters online. Watch a denier like Eric when others try to critique his arguments politely. You will see a parade of fallacies, condescension, and out right ignoring of the actual counter arguments. Pointed jabs force people to address you directly instead of making blanket pronouncements of having "already answered" your arguments.

This isn't my first rodeo. I only bring out the verbal flail when someone attempts to avoid addressing the facts or tries to pretend that they know facts when they don't.

Eric may be many things but he's no climate change denier. Where on earth did you get the idea he was?

Originally Posted by B Butler

Eric, you should strive to be scientifically correct in your language. Technically, he can't be counted as a species unless he only reproduces with himself.

That's possible, but nothing we can confirm.

It's perfectly possible to argue politely with the unscientific. I do it myself often. When I see someone doing this, I admire the effort as an attempt to educate. When I see someone engaging in personal attacks against people who present ignorant views, I see someone attempting to silence rather than educate.

And when I see someone engaged in personal attacks against people who present views contradicting the attacker's own ignorant and faith-based positions, I see someone mimicking the behavior of hard-line fundamentalists, protecting their sacred truths against defilement by the infidel.