Generational Dynamics
Fourth Turning Forum Archive


Popular links:
Generational Dynamics Web Site
Generational Dynamics Forum
Fourth Turning Archive home page
New Fourth Turning Forum

Thread: Global Warming - Page 212







Post#5276 at 06-29-2015 05:06 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
---
06-29-2015, 05:06 PM #5276
Join Date
Feb 2005
Posts
2,005

Quote Originally Posted by JDG 66 View Post
..

...I don't have the time, but I took an online peek.
I honestly meant my recommendation in good faith. Occasionally, folks on this forum recommend books that really have an impact on them. I usually read them, because I find that well-written, seemingly well-researched books have more good information in them than any of the InterWeb echo chambers (either rightie or leftie for that matter).

In reading her book, I found the information on CO2 dissolving in the oceans to be extremely interesting. Of course I bring a background as an erstwhile chemist to the material. What interests me about this, is that sure we have incxreasing amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere and that may possibly be detrimental. But, my goodness, once the basic chemistry of the oceans changes, Katy bar the door. That chapter alone was worth the price of the book.

But ... oh well.
Last edited by TnT; 06-29-2015 at 05:09 PM.
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#5277 at 06-29-2015 05:17 PM by JDG 66 [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 2,106]
---
06-29-2015, 05:17 PM #5277
Join Date
Aug 2010
Posts
2,106

Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
I honestly meant my recommendation in good faith...
-I didn't claim it wasn't in good faith. I just don't see anything new, and I really don't see anything specific re HGW.







Post#5278 at 06-29-2015 05:21 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
---
06-29-2015, 05:21 PM #5278
Join Date
Feb 2005
Posts
2,005

Quote Originally Posted by JDG 66 View Post
-I didn't claim it wasn't in good faith. I just don't see anything new, and I really don't see anything specific re HGW.
That's right. And you won't if you don't read it.

Look, I really don't mind if you ignore my own personal reactions to what I view as a good book. However, if you truly believe that millions of tons of CO2 dissolving in the oceans has no impact on the environment of the earth, and our chances as a species, then ...

oh well.
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#5279 at 06-29-2015 05:26 PM by JDG 66 [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 2,106]
---
06-29-2015, 05:26 PM #5279
Join Date
Aug 2010
Posts
2,106

Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
That's right. And you won't if you don't read it...
-From what I saw of the reviews and the Wiki, she deosn't even address CO2.







Post#5280 at 07-03-2015 04:33 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
---
07-03-2015, 04:33 PM #5280
Join Date
Feb 2005
Posts
2,005

From SLATE.Com

JULY 2 2015 11:41 PM

More Than 70 Percent of Republicans Don’t Believe in Man-Made Global Warming

By Rachel E. Gross

Is the sky blue? Is the Earth round? Is the world getting warmer because of people? Facts shouldn’t change based on what side of the political aisle you sit on, and yet … here’s some depressing news: Just 27 percent of Republicans believe the Earth is warming due to human activity compared to 71 percent of Democrats, according toa new report released by the Pew Research Center on Wednesday.

Keep in mind that the majority ofAmericans agree that global warming is serious and real. The controversy hinges on who should take the blame—with many Republicans remaining skeptical that the answer is humans. Even the U.S. Senate, which voted this year that climate change was not a hoax (gold star for you, U.S. Senate!), can’t agree on the root cause of the phenomenon.

The Pew report is just the latest piece of evidence reflecting the trend of political polarization in America: In the past two decades, we’ve drifted farther and farther apart based on political party. Though the science behind climate and energy issues hasn’t budged, our attitudes toward them continue to diverge.

For the report, Pew surveyed 2,002 adults in 2014 to determine the influence that key factors such as political ideology, age, race, and gender had on their political beliefs. Global warming proved one of the issues most sharply divided across party lines, along with other climate and energy issues including offshore drilling, fracking, and nuclear power. In fact, on these issues, party identification was more likely to determine a respondent’s stance than even their level of education or scientific knowledge.

Still, one would hope that more science education would coincide with greater support for science-based stances in general. And that was true to a point. Respondents with a greater understanding of science proved less afraid of scientific advancements and futuristic-sounding technologies: They were more likely to support using animals in scientific research, approve of expanding nuclear power, and consider genetically modified foods safe to eat. They were “especially likely” to approve using bioengineered organs for human transplant.

Fortunately, politics was not the only factor at play. When it came to other science-based issues—such as the safety of eating GMO foods, space travel, animal research, and biomedicine—respondents were far less likely to have their views determined solely by their political leanings. Unsurprisingly, in the case of evolution, religion played a central role in determining people’s stances. Interestingly, though, those same respondents didn’t necessarily use religion to determine their stances on other scientific topics.

The Pew report did reveal one surprising correlation between political parties about government spending and scientific research: The majority of both parties—83 percent of Democrats and 62 percent of Republicans—said government investment in scientific research paid off in the long run. Gold star for you, America!
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#5281 at 07-03-2015 05:49 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
---
07-03-2015, 05:49 PM #5281
Join Date
May 2005
Location
"Michigrim"
Posts
15,014

Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
That's right. And you won't if you don't read it.

Look, I really don't mind if you ignore my own personal reactions to what I view as a good book. However, if you truly believe that millions of tons of CO2 dissolving in the oceans has no impact on the environment of the earth, and our chances as a species, then ...

oh well.
... more CO2 in the oceans also implies lower productivity of sea food due to higher acidity... so if he likes seafood he had better concern himself with all the CO2 getting into the oceans.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#5282 at 07-04-2015 12:54 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
---
07-04-2015, 12:54 PM #5282
Join Date
Feb 2005
Posts
2,005

Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
... more CO2 in the oceans also implies lower productivity of sea food due to higher acidity... so if he likes seafood he had better concern himself with all the CO2 getting into the oceans.
It might be worse than that. The chemistry of dissolving CO2 leads to the inability of sea-dwelling organisms to form shells, that is coral can't form, etc. If coral can't survive, there may well be catastrophic results. Once the cascade of life forms in the oceans is disrupted, you have the vast majority of oxygen-forming capability on earth, going away. The green stuff on land simply isn't enough to make sufficient oxygen for us to survive in the present form.
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#5283 at 07-07-2015 11:40 AM by JDG 66 [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 2,106]
---
07-07-2015, 11:40 AM #5283
Join Date
Aug 2010
Posts
2,106

Enjoy:
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/ene...cle7326211.ece

The summer monsoon has been showing a weakening trend over the past century with decreasing rainfall over large regions of the Indian subcontinent. The monsoon occurs because the land heats up much more than the ocean and the warm air over the land rises and results in low pressure. This causes the rain-bearing winds from the relatively cooler ocean to blow on to the land and cause rainfall. That is, it is the strong thermal contrast between land and ocean that results in a strong monsoon.

However, a recent study... contends that this thermal contrast has been decreasing in the past decades, i.e., the land has been cooling and the ocean warming and the monsoon has shown a decreasing trend during the past century.

Ideally, under a global warming scenario the land temperature should increase greatly in the hot summers and serve as a strong monsoon driver. But, in the case of the Indian subcontinent, over the past century, that has not been the case. Observed data dating from the 1870s are available for the summer monsoon rainfall... Using the data from 1901-2012, it was found that the rainfall has been decreasing over central South Asia — from south of Pakistan through central India to Bangladesh.

The decrease is highly significant over central India where agriculture is still mostly rain-fed, with a reduction of up to 10-20 per cent in the mean rainfall.

Quite a few other studies indicate that the monsoon rainfall is weakening over the South Asian region during the past half century (since 1950s)...


Hee hee hee!

Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
...Even the U.S. Senate, which voted this year that climate change was not a hoax (gold star for you, U.S. Senate!), can’t agree on the root cause of the phenomenon...
-Show me anyone, anywhere, who believes that the climate never changes.

Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
... Still, one would hope that more science education would coincide with greater support for science-based stances in general....
...which, once again, brings us to the issue of "science."

When put the test, the alarmists' models have proven to be humiliatingly wrong, time after time. A sincere practicioner of the scientific method would consider the possibility that, if the results don't follow the predicted results, that it mightbbe the underlying premise that is wrong. The alarmists don't do that, do they?

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
...The Artic is rapidly melting now, so not much temperature rise is needed to finish that...
-I'm still trying to figure out what you have against a Northwest Passage, or stock raising in Greenland.

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
...I'm not as certain about the Antarctic...
-Here you go:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/20...nimum-reached/

On September 17, Arctic sea ice reached its likely minimum extent for 2014. This is now the sixth lowest extent in the satellite record and reinforces the long-term downward trend in Arctic ice extent... On September 17, 2014, sea ice extent dropped to 5.02 million square kilometers (1.94 million square miles)...

YEAR MINIMUM ICE EXTENT DATE
IN MILLIONS OF SQUARE KILOMETERS IN MILLIONS OF SQUARE MILES
2007 4.17 1.61 September 18
2008 4.59 1.77 September 20
2009 5.13 1.98 September 13
2010 4.63 1.79 September 21
2011 4.33 1.67 September 11
2012 3.41 1.32 September 16
2013 5.10 1.97 September 13
2014 5.02 1.94 September 17
1979 to 2000 average 6.70 2.59 September 13
1981 to 2010 average 6.22 2.40 September 15

...short in 2012, then increasing in 2013 and 2014.

Still waiting for PBR, or anyone else, to explain this:

Quote Originally Posted by JDG 66 View Post
...explain the fraud of Peter Gleick, homo-global-warming alarmist...







Post#5284 at 07-10-2015 03:15 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-10-2015, 03:15 PM #5284
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

US coastal cities in danger as sea levels rise faster than expected, study warns
Satellite measurements show flooding from storms like Sandy will put low-lying population centres at risk sooner than projected

Cities like Jacksonville, Florida, are 'hotspots' for rising sea-levels, with water levels increasing at twice the rate of most other places.

Suzanne Goldenberg, US environment correspondent
@suzyji
Tuesday 27 November 2012 19.01 EST Last modified on Monday 6 October 2014 09.18 EDT
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...P=share_btn_fb

Sea-level rise is occurring much faster than scientists expected – exposing millions more Americans to the destructive floods produced by future Sandy-like storms, new research suggests.

Satellite measurements over the last two decades found global sea levels rising 60% faster than the computer projections issued only a few years ago by the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

The faster sea-level rise means the authorities will have to take even more ambitious measures to protect low-lying population centres – such as New York City, Los Angeles or Jacksonville, Florida – or risk exposing millions more people to a destructive combination of storm surges on top of sea-level rise, scientists said.

Scientists earlier this year found sea-level rise had already doubled the annual risk of historic flooding across a widespread area of the United States.

The latest research, published on Wednesday in Environmental Research Letters, found global sea-levels rising at a rate of 3.2mm a year, compared to the best estimates by the IPCC of 2mm a year, or 60% faster.

Researchers used satellite data to measure sea-level rise from 1993-2011. Satellites are much more accurate than tide gauges, the study said.

The scientists said they had ruled out other non-climatic causes for the rise in water levels – and that their study demonstrated that researchers had under-estimated the effects of climate change.

"Generally people are coming around to the opinion that this is going to be far worse than the IPCC projections indicate," said Grant Foster, a US-based mathematician who worked on the paper with German climatologist Stefan Rahmstorf.

The implications are serious – especially for coastal areas of the US. Large portions of America's Atlantic and Pacific coasts are regarded as "hotspots" for sea-level rise, with water levels increasing at twice the rate of most other places on the planet.

Scientists previously had expected a global sea-level rise of 1m by the end of the century. "But I would say that if you took a poll among the real experts these days probably they would say that a more realistic figure would be more than that," Foster said.

"The study indicates that this is going to be as bad or worse than the worst case scenarios of the IPCC so whatever you were planning from Cape Hatteras to Cape Cod in terms of how you were preparing for sea-level rise – if you thought you had enough defences in place, you probably need more," Foster said.

A study published last March by Climate Central found sea-level rise due to global warming had already doubled the risk of extreme flood events – so-called once in a century floods – for dozens of locations up and down the Atlantic and Pacific coasts.

It singled out the California cities of Los Angeles and San Diego on the Pacific coast and Jacksonville, Florida, and Savannah, Georgia, on the Atlantic, as the most vulnerable to historic flooding due to sea-level rise.

Sandy, which produced a 9ft storm surge at Battery Park in New York City, produced one example of the dangerous combination of storm surges and rising sea level. In New York, each additional foot of water puts up to 100,000 additional people at risk, according to a map published with the study.

But tens of millions of people are potentially at risk across the country. The same report noted that more than half of the population, in some 285 US cities and towns, lived less than 1m above the high tide mark.

"In some places it takes only a few inches of sea-level rise to convert a once in a century storm to a once in a decade storm," said Ben Strauss, who directs the sea-level rise programme at Climate Central.

Large swathes of the mid-Atlantic coast, from Virginia through New Jersey, also faced elevated risk of severe flooding, because of climate change, he said.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5285 at 07-13-2015 01:36 PM by JDG 66 [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 2,106]
---
07-13-2015, 01:36 PM #5285
Join Date
Aug 2010
Posts
2,106

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
US coastal cities in danger as sea levels rise faster than expected, study warns.
-It looks like sunspots will more than counter-balance that:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...2751436649025/

Earth heading for 'mini ice age' in just 15 years, scientists say...


...ah! Never a dull moment.

I'm still waiting for PBR, or anyone else, to explain this:


Quote Originally Posted by JDG 66 View Post
...explain the fraud of Peter Gleick, homo-global-warming alarmist...







Post#5286 at 07-13-2015 04:35 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-13-2015, 04:35 PM #5286
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Good source of news on solar power:
http://www.thinkglobalgreen.org/solar.html
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5287 at 07-13-2015 04:59 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
---
07-13-2015, 04:59 PM #5287
Join Date
May 2005
Location
"Michigrim"
Posts
15,014

Quote Originally Posted by JDG 66 View Post
-It looks like sunspots will more than counter-balance that:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...2751436649025/

Earth heading for 'mini ice age' in just 15 years, scientists say...


...ah! Never a dull moment.

I'm still waiting for PBR, or anyone else, to explain this:
UPI -- the once-venerable United Press International, now owned by the interests of the late Reverend Sun Myung Moon.

Just to let you know.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#5288 at 07-13-2015 06:01 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-13-2015, 06:01 PM #5288
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Any reduction in global mean near-surface temperature due to a future decline in solar activity is likely to be a small fraction of projected anthropogenic warming. However, variability in ultraviolet solar irradiance is linked to modulation of the Arctic and North Atlantic Oscillations, suggesting the potential for larger regional surface climate effects. Here, we explore possible impacts through two experiments designed to bracket uncertainty in ultraviolet irradiance in a scenario in which future solar activity decreases to Maunder Minimum-like conditions by 2050. Both experiments show regional structure in the wintertime response, resembling the North Atlantic Oscillation, with enhanced relative cooling over northern Eurasia and the eastern United States. For a high-end decline in solar ultraviolet irradiance, the impact on winter northern European surface temperatures over the late twenty-first century could be a significant fraction of the difference in climate change between plausible AR5 scenarios of greenhouse gas concentrations.

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/15...comms8535.html
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5289 at 07-13-2015 06:06 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-13-2015, 06:06 PM #5289
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
UPI -- the once-venerable United Press International, now owned by the interests of the late Reverend Sun Myung Moon.

Just to let you know.
Mr. Glick probably thinks that's a positive recommendation.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5290 at 07-15-2015 01:42 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-15-2015, 01:42 PM #5290
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5291 at 07-15-2015 03:08 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-15-2015, 03:08 PM #5291
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Scientists Link Autism To These Toxic Chemicals During Fetal Development
May 11, 2014 by Arjun Walia.
http://www.collective-evolution.com/...oxin-exposure/

The cause of autism is still unknown, but we are definitely closer to figuring it out. A new study published in the journal PLOS Computational Biology, from researchers at the University of Chicago, has revealed that autism and intellectual disability (ID) rates are linked with exposure to harmful environmental factors during congenital development.

“Autism appears to be strongly correlated with rate of congenital malformations of the genitals in males across the country, this gives an indicator of environmental load and the effect is surprisingly strong. The strongest predictors for autism were associated with the environment; congenital malformations on the reproductive system in males… Essentially what happens is during pregnancy there are certain sensitive periods where the fetus is very vulnerable to a range of small molecules – from things like plasticisers, prescription drugs, environmental pesticides and other things. Some of these small molecules essentially alter normal development.” (1a)(1b) – Andrey Rzhetsky, professor of genetic medicine and human genetics at the University of Chicago

The team analyzed data that covered more than one third of the U.S. population. Data from individual states and more than 2,100 counties were used. Fetuses, particularly males, are sensitive to multiple toxins such as environmental lead, medications, and a wide variety of other synthetic molecules, like pesticides, mercury, and more. Exposure to these toxins during critical stages of development is thought to explain a large portion of congenital reproductive malformations.

“It’s really a very significant study, and should trigger the medical community, the scientific community and the government, looking at this especially interesting avenue for the prevention of autism. We know that one of the ways to show that there is a problem with pollution is to show through the presence of these reproductive defects and we know that there is a relationship between the presence of these defects and the presence of autism related disorders.” Dr. Harbut, Providence-St John Environmental Medicine Expert

This isn’t the first time that scientists have linked autism to the environment. In 2009, Hertz-Picciotto and Lora Delwiche of the UC Dais Department of Public Health Sciences analyzed 17 years of state data that tracks developmental disabilities.

fetus“It’s time to start looking for the environmental culprits responsible for the remarkable increase in the rate of autism in California.” (2) – Irva Hertz – Picciotto, epidemiology professor at University of California, Davis

Our environment is full of neurodevelopmental toxins, which means they alter how the brain grows. Mercury, polychlorinated diphenyl, lead, brominated flame retardants, and pesticides are a few of many examples. And let’s not forget about insecticides and herbicides.

Another recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine compared brain autopsies of autistic children who had died from unrelated causes to those of normal ones. The autistic brains demonstrated abnormal patches of disorganized neurons that disrupted the usual distinct layers in the brain’s cortex. The study suggests that abnormalities occurred in utero during key developmental stages between 19 to 30 weeks gestation. It’s not just the toxin, it’s the timing of the exposure as well.(3)

In the United States alone, autism rates have risen from 1:10,000 in 1981 to 1:68 in 2014. Again, multiple studies point to the prevalence of toxins in our environment as the culprit, and there are toxins in many things. It seems we might not be looking at one cause for autism, but rather multiple factors associated with how we choose to live our lives on a daily basis.

So, let’s take a look at some of these toxins that could be linked to autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders.

One factor I’d like to touch upon first is the fact that autism rates in Europe have remained pretty steady over the last decade. This coincides with the fact that in more than 60 countries around the world, including Australia, Japan, and all of the countries in the European Union, there are significant restrictions or complete bans on the production and sale of GMOs and the pesticides that go with them. In the United States, government agencies have approved massive amounts of pesticides, completely ignoring the fact that they are linked to numerous health ailments. Not long ago, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) recently raised the allowable concentrations of Monsanto’s glyphosate, also known as “Roundup,” on food crops, edible oils, and animal feed (you can read more about that here). Although we don’t know for sure, it’s important to at least consider the large increase in Genetically Modified Organism (GMOs) and the massive amount of chemicals (pesticides and herbicides) that are dumped on them every year. These pesticides have been linked to many significant health problems......
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5292 at 07-15-2015 06:22 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
---
07-15-2015, 06:22 PM #5292
Join Date
Sep 2006
Location
Moorhead, MN, USA
Posts
14,442

Collective Evolution is a crackpot site, Eric.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5293 at 07-15-2015 07:59 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-15-2015, 07:59 PM #5293
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Collective Evolution is a crackpot site, Eric.
Is the journal PLOS Computational Biology, from researchers at the University of Chicago?
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5294 at 07-15-2015 08:29 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
---
07-15-2015, 08:29 PM #5294
Join Date
Nov 2006
Location
Oklahoma
Posts
5,511

Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Collective Evolution is a crackpot site, Eric.
I have to go with Eric somewhat on this one. brominated flame retardants, TCDD (a highly toxic dioxin, PCB's, pthalates [found in all manner of plastics], persistent chlorinated pesticides, are endocrine disruptors that wreak all sorts of havoc in the body. We do know they lead to cancer and type II diabetes. We also know that lead and mercury are potent neurotoxins. Now, wrt autism, we do not know this yet. I don't think in the end if a link to autism is all that important, given the known havoc. I also think we really need to stop dumping plastics all over the place since they leach out endocrine disruptors.

Now, the GMO stuff is crackpottery. GMO happens naturally all the time. Like did you know that horizontal gene transfer happens all the time? Check this out.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/290835.php
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#5295 at 07-15-2015 10:11 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
---
07-15-2015, 10:11 PM #5295
Join Date
Sep 2006
Location
Moorhead, MN, USA
Posts
14,442

Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
I have to go with Eric somewhat on this one. brominated flame retardants, TCDD (a highly toxic dioxin, PCB's, pthalates [found in all manner of plastics], persistent chlorinated pesticides, are endocrine disruptors that wreak all sorts of havoc in the body. We do know they lead to cancer and type II diabetes. We also know that lead and mercury are potent neurotoxins. Now, wrt autism, we do not know this yet. I don't think in the end if a link to autism is all that important, given the known havoc. I also think we really need to stop dumping plastics all over the place since they leach out endocrine disruptors.

Now, the GMO stuff is crackpottery. GMO happens naturally all the time. Like did you know that horizontal gene transfer happens all the time? Check this out.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/290835.php
Oh, I don't disagree, I was just calling Eric out for using a terrible source.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5296 at 07-16-2015 12:34 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-16-2015, 12:34 AM #5296
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Climate change 'already affecting food supply' – UN
Report by climate change panel says global warming is fueling not only natural disasters, but potentially famine – and war

Suzanne Goldenberg in Yokohama
@suzyji
Sunday 30 March 2014 20.01 EDT Last modified on Tuesday 3 June 2014 04.41 EDT
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...P=share_btn_fb

Climate change has already cut into the global food supply and is fuelling wars and natural disasters, but governments are unprepared to protect those most at risk, according to a report from the UN's climate science panel.

The report is the first update in seven years from the UN's international panel of experts, which is charged with producing the definitive account of climate change.

In that time, climate change has ceased to be a distant threat and made an impact much closer to home, the report's authors say. "It's about people now," said Virginia Burkett, the chief scientist for global change at the US geological survey and one of the report's authors. "It's more relevant to the man on the street. It's more relevant to communities because the impacts are directly affecting people – not just butterflies and sea ice."

The scientists of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change found evidence of climate change far beyond thawing Arctic permafrost and crumbling coral reefs – "on all continents and across the oceans".

But it was the finding that climate change could threaten global food security that caught the attention of government officials from 115 countries who reviewed the report. "All aspects of food security are potentially affected by climate change," the report said.

The scientists said there was enough evidence to say for certain that climate change is affecting food production on land and sea.

The rate of increase in crop yields is slowing – especially in wheat – raising doubts as to whether food production will keep up with the demand of a growing population. Changes in temperature and rainfall patterns could lead to food price rises of between 3% and 84% by 2050.

"Climate change is acting as a brake. We need yields to grow to meet growing demand, but already climate change is slowing those yields," said Michael Oppenheimer, a Princeton professor and an author of the report.

Other food sources are also under threat. Fish catches in some areas of the tropics are projected to fall by between 40% and 60%, according to the report.

The report also connected climate change to rising food prices and political instability, for instance the riots in Asia and Africa after food price shocks in 2008.

"The impacts are already evident in many places in the world. It is not something that is [only] going to happen in the future," said David Lobell, a professor at Stanford University's centre for food security, who devised the models.

"Almost everywhere you see the warming effects have a negative affect on wheat and there is a similar story for corn as well. These are not yet enormous effects but they show clearly that the trends are big enough to be important," Lobell said.

Wheat is the first big staple crop to be affected by climate change, because it is sensitive to heat and is grown around the world, from Pakistan to Russia to Canada. Projections suggest that wheat yields could drop 2% a decade.

The report explored a range of scenarios involving a temperature rise of two degrees or more that saw dramatic declines in production in the coming decades. Declines in crop yields will register first in drier and warmer parts of the world but as temperatures rise two, three or four degrees, they will affect everyone.

In the more extreme scenarios, heat and water stress could reduce yields by 25% between 2030 and 2049.

The report acknowledged that there were a few isolated areas where a longer growing season had been good for farming. But it played down the idea that there may be advantages to climate change as far as food production is concerned.

Overall, the report said, "Negative impacts of climate change on crop yields have been more common than positive impacts." Scientists and campaigners pointed to the finding as a defining feature of the report.

The scientists also detected climate having an effect on heatwaves, droughts and flooding across the globe, and warned that those events would take a disproportionate toll on poor, weak and elderly people. The scientists said governments did not have systems in place to protect those populations. Warming of more than two degrees would increase the risks of "severe, pervasive and irreversible" consequences, the report said.

The report also warned for the first time that climate change, combined with poverty and economic shocks, could lead to war and drive people to leave their homes. "Climate change can indirectly increase risks of violent conflicts," the report said. It also warned that hundreds of millions of people in south Asia and south-east Asia will be affected by coastal flooding and land loss by 2100.

"The main way that most people will experience climate change is through the impact on food: the food they eat, the price they pay for it, and the availability and choice that they have," said Tim Gore, head of food policy and climate change for Oxfam.

Friends of the Earth's executive director, Andy Atkins, said: "We can't continue to ignore the stark warnings of the catastrophic consequences of climate change on the lives and livelihoods of people across the planet.

"Giant strides are urgently needed to tackle the challenges we face, but all we get is tiny steps, excuses and delays from most of the politicians that are supposed to represent our interests.

"Governments across the world must stand up to the oil, gas and coal industries, and take their foot of the fossil fuel accelerator that's speeding us towards a climate disaster."
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5297 at 07-17-2015 12:49 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-17-2015, 12:49 AM #5297
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Warming of oceans due to climate change is unstoppable, say US scientists
Seas will continue to warm for centuries even if manmade greenhouse gas emissions were frozen at today’s levels, say US government scientists

by Suzanne Goldenberg
http://www.theguardian.com/environme...-us-scientists

Globally 90% of the excess heat caused by the rise in greenhouse gas emissions is absorbed by the oceans.

The warming of the oceans due to climate change is now unstoppable after record temperatures last year, bringing additional sea-level rise, and raising the risks of severe storms, US government climate scientists said on Thursday.

The annual State of the Climate in 2014 report, based on research from 413 scientists from 58 countries, found record warming on the surface and upper levels of the oceans, especially in the North Pacific, in line with earlier findings of 2014 as the hottest year on record.

Global sea-level also reached a record high, with the expansion of those warming waters, keeping pace with the 3.2 ± 0.4 mm per year trend in sea level growth over the past two decades, the report said.

Scientists said the consequences of those warmer ocean temperatures would be felt for centuries to come – even if there were immediate efforts to cut the carbon emissions fuelling changes in the oceans.

“I think of it more like a fly wheel or a freight train. It takes a big push to get it going but it is moving now and will contiue to move long after we continue to pushing it,” Greg Johnson, an oceanographer at Noaa’s Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory, told a conference call with reporters.

“Even if we were to freeze greenhouse gases at current levels, the sea would actually continue to warm for centuries and millennia, and as they continue to warm and expand the sea levels will continue to rise,” Johnson said.

On the west coast of the US, freakishly warm temperatures in the Pacific – 4 or 5F above normal – were already producing warmer winters, as well as worsening drought conditions by melting the snowpack, he said.

The extra heat in the oceans was also contributing to more intense storms, Tom Karl, director of Noaa’s National Centers for Environmental Information, said.

The report underlined 2014 as a banner year for the climate, setting record or near record levels for temperature extremes, and loss of glaciers and sea ice, and reinforcing decades-old pattern to changes to the climate system.

Four independent data sets confirmed 2014 as the hottest year on record, with much of that heat driven by the warming of the oceans.

Globally 90% of the excess heat caused by the rise in greenhouse gas emissions is absorbed by the oceans.

More than 20 countries in Europe set new heat records, with Africa, Asia and Australia also experiencing near-record heat. The east coast of North America was the only region to experience cooler than average conditions.

Alaska experienced temperatures 18F warmer than average. Spring break-up came to the Arctic 20-30 days earlier than the 20th century average.

“The prognosis is to expect a continuation of what we have seen,” Karl said.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5298 at 07-21-2015 12:31 PM by takascar2 [at North Side, Chi-Town, 1962 joined Jan 2002 #posts 563]
---
07-21-2015, 12:31 PM #5298
Join Date
Jan 2002
Location
North Side, Chi-Town, 1962
Posts
563

Solar Minimum to be the beginning of the end of the AGW Hoax.

Quote Originally Posted by JDG 66 View Post
-It looks like sunspots will more than counter-balance that:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-Ne...2751436649025/

Earth heading for 'mini ice age' in just 15 years, scientists say...


...ah! Never a dull moment.

I'm still waiting for PBR, or anyone else, to explain this:
More real facts:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/..._century.html/

Also see the REASON article published in the last few years. It looked at all of the global warming alarmists and determined that they all
had alterior motives from owning stocks in carbon credit schemes to solar panel companies (wonder how many lost money along
with the AMERICAN TAXPAYERS when Solyndra predicatbly failed).

The most virulent and dangerous of these people are those that hang around with Connie ("Caaaahneee") Hedergaart, including that
Peruvian freak "scientist" that hangs around with her. (The one that wears all of those bizarre necklaces).

REASON magazine dug into their past speeches, and found that they are all UN one-world-government types who
would favor stripping national sovereignty and put a suffocating one-world nanny state government in place.

The strategy is to create the illusion of a crisis that is so bad that it threatens to kill off life on earth and then scare people to surrendering their
rights. Its a strategy that is as old as the hills.

One of the things they need to do is to "shut up" any scientists who oppose them. That's why a large number of scientists who have PROVEN
that AGW is a HOAX are persecuted, fired from their posts, denied the right to publish their studies in climate journals. In one case
in the UK, they even put one of them in prison for awhile because he opposed the propaganda line.

CO2 is a *TRACE GAS* - CO2 accounts for a mere 0.039% of the atmosphere, while the sun accounts for 99.86% of all of the mass in our entire solar system.

The sun and its energy is responsible for most of the climate. We will see a new minimum in the next several decades. Although I don't like
cold, I will welcome the fact that it will finally expose this AGW FRAUD for what it is.

Now, lets get back to building our economies, supporting free enterprise and lifting the world out of poverty by creating a robust free market.

We can start by ignoring all of the deluded, drug addled hippies (many of them are on this board) who propose a fantasy world that can
never be (and should not be).
Last edited by takascar2; 07-21-2015 at 01:12 PM.







Post#5299 at 07-21-2015 01:30 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
---
07-21-2015, 01:30 PM #5299
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
2,329

Left Arrow Real?

Quote Originally Posted by takascar2 View Post
Thought I'd visit American Thinker to see if it was a politically neutral source. Well... nope. "How Obama abandoned allies for African Dictators" "Bruce Jenner, Brett Favre, and the cultural totalitarians." "House readies vote on denying funds to sanctuary cities." "Global warming created ISIS." Visit and see for yourselves. To me it looks like a Red values hot house created to tell conservatives what they want to hear.

Now, there are honest main line scientists projecting a weak solar cycle. That showed up on RealClimate a while ago. However, the papers aren't peer reviewed yet, there are other scientists somewhat dubious about it, and the magnitude of the solar cycle force factor is dwarfed over the long term by CO2 force factor. Projecting solar cycles is still a black art. If there is going to be a weak solar maximum next time around, that might give us a bit of relief from the warming for a few years, but the notion of a near future ice age comes from propagandists rather than scientists.







Post#5300 at 07-21-2015 02:07 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
07-21-2015, 02:07 PM #5300
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Quote Originally Posted by takascar2 View Post
The sun and its energy is responsible for most of the climate. We will see a new minimum in the next several decades. Although I don't like cold, I will welcome the fact that it will finally expose this AGW FRAUD for what it is.
You expect that graph of global temperatures to go down to what it was decades ago. OK, we'll see.

Now, lets get back to building our economies, supporting free enterprise and lifting the world out of poverty by creating a robust free market.
You are one of the many libertarians who deny global warming in order to defend your ideology.

We can start by ignoring all of the deluded, drug addled hippies (many of them are on this board) who propose a fantasy world that can never be (and should not be).
And your opposition to the revolution of our time is another reason why you deny and ignore. Our greenpeace new life will grow and move humanity toward our ideals, and will move past your money-grubbing, militarist, conformist, meaningless, wasteful and destructive lifestyle.

But I do not begrudge your presence here to expose us to the other side of this issue in all its glory.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece
-----------------------------------------