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Thread: Mexico - Page 3







Post#51 at 04-06-2010 05:24 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
Mexicans fleeing drug war violence seek asylum in US.

"No one doubts that they have a strong claim. Their town on the Mexican side of the border is under siege by one or more drug cartels battling for control of the key border crossing. According to Mike Doyle, the chief deputy sheriff of Hudspeth County, Texas, one of the cartels has ordered all residents of the town of 10,000 to abandon the city within the next month.

"They came in and put up a sign in the plaza telling everyone to leave or pay with their own blood," Doyle said. Since then there has been a steady stream of El Porvenir residents seeking safety on the American side of the border, both legally and illegally. Among them are the 30 who are seeking political asylum."

Can you imagine if the whole town came at once? What if the tactic goes viral? It would be a human disaster - desert, no water, people - very predictable. How do we prepare? Do we prepare?

More here: http://bit.ly/com6Il

James50
Mexico may be the best case theorywise for a literal year cycle. The Revolution of 1810 resulted in their political independence by 1821. The Revolution of 1910 resulted in the current political system being in place by 1928.
And now it is 2010. All of the current border unrest may be a way of appeasing the densely populated center of the country. At least some informed sources think so.

Quote Originally Posted by Stratfor
A failed state is one in which the central government has lost control over significant areas of the country and the state is unable to function... it seems to us that the Mexican government has lost control of the northern tier of Mexico to drug-smuggling organizations, which have significantly greater power in that region than government forces. Moreover, the ability of the central government to assert its will against these organizations has weakened to the point that decisions made by the state against the cartels are not being implemented or are being implemented in a way that would guarantee failure.

Despite these facts, it is not clear...that Mexico is becoming a failed state. Instead, it appears the Mexican state has accommodated itself to the situation. Rather than failing, it has developed strategies designed both to ride out the storm and to maximize the benefits of that storm for Mexico.

First, while the Mexican government has lost control over matters having to do with drugs and with the borderlands of the United States, Mexico City’s control over other regions — and over areas other than drug enforcement — has not collapsed (though its lack of control over drugs could well extend to other areas eventually). Second, while drugs reshape Mexican institutions dramatically, they also, paradoxically, stabilize Mexico...

...Let’s begin by understanding the core problem. The United States consumes vast amounts of narcotics, which, while illegal there, make their way in abundance. Narcotics derive from low-cost agricultural products that become consumable with minimal processing. With its long, shared border with the United States, Mexico has become a major grower, processor and exporter of narcotics. Because the drugs are illegal and thus outside normal market processes, their price is determined by their illegality rather than by the cost of production. This means extraordinary profits can be made by moving narcotics from the Mexican side of the border to markets on the other side...

...Whoever controls the supply chain from the fields to the processing facilities and, above all, across the border, will make enormous amounts of money. Various Mexican organizations — labeled cartels, although they do not truly function as such, since real cartels involve at least a degree of cooperation among producers, not open warfare — vie for this business. These are competing businesses, each with its own competing supply chain.

Typically, competition among businesses involves lowering prices and increasing quality. This would produce small, incremental shifts in profits on the whole while dramatically reducing prices. An increased market share would compensate for lower prices. Similarly, lawsuits are the normal solution to unfair competition. But neither is the case with regard to illegal goods.

The surest way to increase smuggling profits is not through market mechanisms but by taking over competitors’ supply chains. Given the profit margins involved, persons wanting to control drug supply chains would be irrational to buy, since the lower-cost solution would be to take control of these supply chains by force. Thus, each smuggling organization has an attached paramilitary organization designed to protect its own supply chain and to seize its competitors’ supply chains.

The result is ongoing warfare between competing organizations. Given the amount of money being made in delivering their product to American cities, these paramilitary organizations are well-armed, well-led and well-motivated. Membership in such paramilitary groups offers impoverished young men extraordinary opportunities for making money, far greater than would be available to them in legitimate activities.

The raging war in Mexico derives logically from the existence of markets for narcotics in the United States; the low cost of the materials and processes required to produce these products; and the extraordinarily favorable economics of moving narcotics across the border. This warfare is concentrated on the Mexican side of the border. But from the Mexican point of view, this warfare does not fundamentally threaten Mexico’s internally...

...The heartland of Mexico is to the south, far from the country’s northern tier. The north is largely a sparsely populated highland desert region seen from Mexico City as an alien borderland intertwined with the United States as much as it is part of Mexico. Accordingly, the war raging there doesn’t represent a direct threat to the survival of the Mexican regime.

Indeed, what the wars are being fought over in some ways benefits Mexico. The amount of money pouring into Mexico annually is stunning. It is estimated to be about $35 billion to $40 billion each year. The massive profit margins involved make these sums even more significant. Assume that the manufacturing sector produces revenues of $40 billion a year through exports. Assuming a generous 10 percent profit margin, actual profits would be $4 billion a year. In the case of narcotics, however, profit margins are conservatively estimated to stand at around 80 percent. The net from $40 billion would be $32 billion; to produce equivalent income in manufacturing, exports would have to total $320 billion.

In estimating the impact of drug money on Mexico, it must therefore be borne in mind that drugs cannot be compared to any conventional export. The drug trade’s tremendously high profit margins mean its total impact on Mexico vastly outstrips even the estimated total sales, even if the margins shifted substantially.

On the whole, Mexico is a tremendous beneficiary of the drug trade. Even if some of the profits are invested overseas, the pool of remaining money flowing into Mexico creates tremendous liquidity in the Mexican economy at a time of global recession. It is difficult to trace where the drug money is going, which follows from its illegality. Certainly, drug dealers would want their money in a jurisdiction where it could not be easily seized even if tracked. U.S. asset seizure laws for drug trafficking make the United States an unlikely haven. Though money clearly flows out of Mexico, the ability of the smugglers to influence the behavior of the Mexican government by investing some of it makes Mexico a likely destination for a substantial portion of such funds.

The money does not, however, flow back into the hands of the gunmen shooting it out on the border; even their bosses couldn’t manage funds of that magnitude. And while money can be — and often is — baled up and hidden, the value of money is in its use. As with illegal money everywhere, the goal is to wash it and invest it in legitimate enterprises where it can produce more money. That means it has to enter the economy through legitimate institutions — banks and other financial entities — and then be redeployed into the economy. This is no different from the American Mafia’s practice during and after Prohibition.
Currently it is not politically possible to radically change America's prohibitionist drug policies in such a way that the black market of criminality can be turned into a regulated market of medical control. As such America is going to keep wasting billions a year pretending that the lessons of prohibition from the last 3T somehow don't apply to today.
And this means that in the MexAmerica borderlands, there will be blood.
Last edited by herbal tee; 04-06-2010 at 05:26 PM.







Post#52 at 06-05-2010 03:00 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Newsweek June 7, 2010

Don't Fence Them In by Arian Campo-Flores

"...The fertility rate in Mexico-whose emigrants account for a majority of the United States' undocumented population-has undergone one of the steepest declines in history, from about 6.7 children per woman in 1970 to about 2.1 today, according to World Bank figures...'replacement level'....In coming years it is expected to dip even further. Other countries in Latin America have experienced a similar drop, though not as sharp....

"...Starting in the 1970s, its government undertook one of the most aggressive contraception campaigns in Latin America and set up family-planning clinics across the country. Women also recieved better schooling, and as Mexico continued to urganize and industrialize they entered the workforce in much higher numbers. The result was more economic opportunity, greater control over their lives-and fewer babies.

"...As soon as next year, demographers say, the number of new entrants into the Mexican labor force is expected to start decreasing....

"In the coming years, the politics of immigration could be completely scrambled: Mexican migration will taper off further just as baby boomers begin retiring in 2012...."
Last edited by TimWalker; 06-05-2010 at 03:07 PM.







Post#53 at 08-25-2010 10:20 AM by Poodle [at Doghouse joined May 2010 #posts 1,269]
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4T Drug War Getting Hotter








Post#54 at 08-26-2010 12:44 AM by Debol1990 [at joined Jul 2010 #posts 734]
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Yes, the situation in Mexico is much worse then the government or media will let on.

It does not take much research in the matter to see that the flow of Legal and Illegal immigrants from the country are not simply leaving for prosperity, they are refugees.The countries government is impotent and the entire place is falling into anarchy, I wouldn't be surprised to see violent revolution within the decade(probably sooner).

Northern Mexico is nearly as violent as Iraq was in 2007 and growing worse. Bullets hit buildings in El Paso, and military convoys drive on the I-8, and I-10. It will only be so much longer that a lid can be kept on the situation. More people are killed in Ciudad Juarez, Mexicali and Tijuana then in Baghdad!







Post#55 at 08-26-2010 04:14 AM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Debol1990 View Post
Yes, the situation in Mexico is much worse then the government or media will let on.

It does not take much research in the matter to see that the flow of Legal and Illegal immigrants from the country are not simply leaving for prosperity, they are refugees.The countries government is impotent and the entire place is falling into anarchy, I wouldn't be surprised to see violent revolution within the decade(probably sooner).

Northern Mexico is nearly as violent as Iraq was in 2007 and growing worse. Bullets hit buildings in El Paso, and military convoys drive on the I-8, and I-10. It will only be so much longer that a lid can be kept on the situation. More people are killed in Ciudad Juarez, Mexicali and Tijuana then in Baghdad!
Mexico might even have a civil war akin to the Spanish Civil War.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#56 at 08-26-2010 09:05 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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I fear the violence will spill over to the Southwestern US, probably exacerbating immigration tensions.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#57 at 08-26-2010 12:08 PM by Poodle [at Doghouse joined May 2010 #posts 1,269]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I fear the violence will spill over to the Southwestern US, probably exacerbating immigration tensions.
already happening.







Post#58 at 08-26-2010 12:08 PM by Poodle [at Doghouse joined May 2010 #posts 1,269]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Mexico might even have a civil war akin to the Spanish Civil War.

~Chas'88
Not their first.







Post#59 at 08-26-2010 02:17 PM by Debol1990 [at joined Jul 2010 #posts 734]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I fear the violence will spill over to the Southwestern US, probably exacerbating immigration tensions.

It is already spilling over, example being the murdered rancher. Bullets hitting El Paso, the sheer number of kidnappings in AZ related to drug trafficking. Phoenix has one of the highest kidnapping rates, luckily its usually the cartels kidnapping other people involved in the trade, but what happens when a local statesmen gets tough on the border? How much of a jump is it for a drug kingpin to kidnap a congressman's child?

They already do it to people desperate enough to rely on coyotes to get across the border, they dont think twice about disfiguring children to punish a parent's late payment.

Since 06' the border has gotten extremely violent, DHS wont even allow agents in some areas because it is to dangerous. Signs are posted in the United States saying that the area has a high traffic of drug an human smuggling, and continuing in the area is life threatening.

Think about that, literal US territory that the government simply says, Mexicans will kill you here don't go! No wonder people in the Southwest are upset, this all occurs within 100 miles of my house, hardly an afternoons drive!







Post#60 at 08-27-2010 11:40 AM by Mary Kate 1982 [at Boston, MA joined Dec 2009 #posts 184]
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How much of a jump is it for a drug kingpin to kidnap a congressman's child?
Or a president's, for that matter?-The next election is coming sooner rather than later. Could you imagine a situation in which President Obama is campaigning in Phoenix and his daughter, Sasha, is taken? It would be a national disaster: a broken, bleeding little girl screaming for her father and the cherry on top of the shitcake is that she is an Obama?







Post#61 at 10-27-2010 10:39 AM by Poodle [at Doghouse joined May 2010 #posts 1,269]
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Every cop in town quits after Mexico attack

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39863570..._news-americas

MEXICO CITY — The entire police force of a small northern Mexican town quit after gunmen attacked their recently inaugurated headquarters, according to local reports on Wednesday.
Los Ramones Mayor Santos Salinas said nobody was injured in Monday night's attack, during which gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets at the building's facade, according to Noroeste newspaper's website. Six grenades, of which three detonated, were also flung at the building, the newspaper reported.
"Fortunately, those who were inside the building threw themselves on the ground and nobody was hurt," Salinas told the newspaper.







Post#62 at 10-29-2010 01:49 AM by Debol1990 [at joined Jul 2010 #posts 734]
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Quote Originally Posted by Poodle View Post
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39863570..._news-americas

MEXICO CITY — The entire police force of a small northern Mexican town quit after gunmen attacked their recently inaugurated headquarters, according to local reports on Wednesday.
Los Ramones Mayor Santos Salinas said nobody was injured in Monday night's attack, during which gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets at the building's facade, according to Noroeste newspaper's website. Six grenades, of which three detonated, were also flung at the building, the newspaper reported.
"Fortunately, those who were inside the building threw themselves on the ground and nobody was hurt," Salinas told the newspaper.

Hey don't worry everyone just remember that the whole Mexico thing won't affect you for a little while longer. A country of 110 million people in Anarchy just south of us is no big deal, nothing to see here folks move along.







Post#63 at 10-29-2010 09:40 AM by ASB65 [at Texas joined Mar 2010 #posts 5,892]
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My next door neighbor is of Mexican decent. (Her family has been in this country for several generation). She has aunts and other relatives living in El Paso, Tx. She told me a while back that her aunts used to think nothing of crossing the border to get groceries or do other shopping. Now they very rarely go into Mexico. And if they do, they dress down and try to look as "poor" as possible, because they are genuinely afraid of getting kidnapped. And I do believe that the violence has escalated into El Paso.

My husband, on the other hand, goes across the border all the time in southern Texas because the company he works for has their factory located right across the border. According to my husband, he feels perfectly safe when he is down there and tells me not to worry because they have had no problems down there or at that factory.

So maybe the violence tends to be regional. Some places are worse than others.







Post#64 at 10-29-2010 11:53 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Poodle View Post
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39863570..._news-americas

MEXICO CITY — The entire police force of a small northern Mexican town quit after gunmen attacked their recently inaugurated headquarters, according to local reports on Wednesday.
Los Ramones Mayor Santos Salinas said nobody was injured in Monday night's attack, during which gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets at the building's facade, according to Noroeste newspaper's website. Six grenades, of which three detonated, were also flung at the building, the newspaper reported.
"Fortunately, those who were inside the building threw themselves on the ground and nobody was hurt," Salinas told the newspaper.
It is time to legalize the drugs & put the drug gangs out of business. Then tax the drugs like we do for alcohol.
I would advocate treatment for addicts and education on the dangers of drug use.







Post#65 at 10-30-2010 12:39 PM by disgruntledxer [at Seattle, WA joined Sep 2010 #posts 674]
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Mexico is in a 4T in civil war. It is not JUST drug cartels. Gen Barry McCathrey calls it an "over simplified explination to say its just drug cartels." Its many different groups with many different agendas.

What we do not talk about is this: just how do we think that the Mexico problem will realistically solve itself without a major military action on our part? We are not just going to wake up one morning and everything be alright. Its a direct threat to US security more so than any and all things that would fall under Joint Centeral Command.







Post#66 at 10-30-2010 09:34 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by disgruntledxer View Post
Mexico is in a 4T in civil war. It is not JUST drug cartels. Gen Barry McCathrey calls it an "over simplified explination to say its just drug cartels." Its many different groups with many different agendas.

What we do not talk about is this: just how do we think that the Mexico problem will realistically solve itself without a major military action on our part? We are not just going to wake up one morning and everything be alright. Its a direct threat to US security more so than any and all things that would fall under Joint Centeral Command.
I am just proud that our Justice Department is sending election observers to protect the Illegal immigrants right to vote in Arizona.







Post#67 at 10-31-2010 09:11 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
It is time to legalize the drugs & put the drug gangs out of business. Then tax the drugs like we do for alcohol.
I would advocate treatment for addicts and education on the dangers of drug use.
This is a proposal a few sensible people have been making for decades. It has never gotten any traction and I certainly don't expect it to any time soon. . ..

It does seem that parts of Mexico are sinking into anarchy and I wonder what the result will be.







Post#68 at 11-01-2010 07:36 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by wtrg8 View Post
I am just proud that our Justice Department is sending election observers to protect the Illegal immigrants right to vote in Arizona.
It is to protect the legal voters of Mexican or even First Peoples origin.

Arizona politics are now as rotten as those of the Deep South.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#69 at 12-15-2010 12:08 PM by Poodle [at Doghouse joined May 2010 #posts 1,269]
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The right to bear arms...across the border.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40572312...news-americas/

Firearms from U.S. being used in Mexico drug violence

Cartel leaders are hiring Americans to make the purchases for them

Mexican cartels are taking advantage of U.S. gun laws to buy thousands of weapons that are being used in an escalating drug war that has claimed more than 31,000 lives since late 2006, experts and law enforcement officials tell NBC News.
U.S. firearms agents estimate that around 80 percent of the weapons used by Mexican drug traffickers come from the United States, where cartel leaders are hiring Americans with clean records to make the purchases for them. In the past four years, Mexican authorities say they have seized 90,000 weapons from their nation's drug war.



"The cartels need their tools of the trade, which are the weapons, and they are coming to the U.S. to get those weapons," William McMahon of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told NBC News. Authorities say the straw buyers are paid up to $200 per weapon and cite a recent case in Oklahoma City, where a former state narcotics agent pleaded guilty in such a gunrunning scheme.



Francisco Reyes, 29, was accused of paying two friends to buy dozens of firearms destined for Mexico, according to court documents. One of those buyers, Jorge Alexis Blanco, bought at least 15 guns and attempted to buy three more, according to Michael Randall of the ATF in the criminal complaint.
"They are being taken advantage of by these cartels and really are providing something that's going be used to kill someone in Mexico," said McMahon, adding that the cartels are specifically looking for high-caliber weapons.
'Acapulco Police Massacre'
Authorities say they have no doubts that weapon purchases are being used to fuel the violence in Mexico, including a recent case known as the "Acapulco Police Massacre," in which four officers and three secretaries were murdered.


Guns used in that and other cases were traced to Houston. Overall, the Southwest border states, especially Texas, California and Arizona, are the primary sources of weapons used by the cartels in Mexico, where buying guns is much more difficult than in the U.S., according to the Department of Justice.
Story: Mexico’s ‘war next door’ linked directly to United States In 2009, ATF reported to Congress that about 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico that ATF has traced were initially sold in the United States. However, the National Rifle Association has said the percentage is much lower.
In smuggling weapons across the border, experts say, the guns are usually hidden in cars and trucks.
"They'll hide them in secret compartments, whether it's a spare tire, a gas tank, camper shells or they even build secret compartments to put them in there," said Rick Serrano, an ATF supervisor in Tucson, Ariz.
In Texas, authorities arrested Ernesto Gonzalez-Reyes, 48, in March alleging they found five 7.62mm semiautomatic rifles, 10 high-capacity 7.62mm magazines and 50 rounds of .40-caliber ammunition hidden within the cargo area panels and the front and rear bumpers of the Chevrolet Suburban he was driving.
'Not going to honest American hands'
During his visit to the United States in May, Mexican President Felipe Calderon urged a joint session of Congress to ban assault weapons that are showing up in his country.
Calderon said the U.S. need to "regulate the sale of these weapons in the right way."
"Many of these guns are not going to honest American hands," he said. "Instead, thousands are ending up in the hands of criminals."
Although U.S. officials say they have recently seized more than 10,000 weapons headed for Mexico, Mexican authorities say more work needs to be done to stem the flow, including better use of a gun-tracing program known as eTrace.



That program was announced in Mexico in January 2008 as the cornerstone of efforts to "terminate the illegal shipment of arms to Mexico and reduce the violence they cause on both sides of the border."
But a recent inspector general's preliminary report, first publicized in October, called eTrace underused and unsuccessful. One top official said not enough Mexican investigators had been trained or had access to the electronic database.
"It doesn't mean the system is not working. It's not working as well as it can," ATF Deputy Director Kenneth Melson told The Associated Press in October. "The information was being submitted by people who didn't know how to trace guns."



Melson said the system, when used properly, can provide strategic and intelligence information to fight gun-smuggling, establishing trafficking patterns as well as identifying weapons sources.
"We're now at a point where we can process much more information quickly, information that will be more accurate and more complete," Melson said.
'Iron River'
But finding a way to stop the weapons flow, now known as the "Iron River," is being hindered to some extent by U.S. gun laws, officials say. In November, the inspector general of the Department of Justice detailed the problem, citing the lack of a federal statute specifically prohibiting firearms trafficking.
Meanwhile, Mexican authorities are taking steps to ensure the weapons that are seized don't find their way back to the cartels.
At a military base, in Mexico City, soldiers use torches and hammers to destroy thousands of guns, saving others for evidence in criminal investigations.







Post#70 at 10-10-2011 03:26 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Newweek Oct. 10 & 17, 2011An ironic article entitled Come On In, The Water's Fine Never Mind The Beheadings, The Kidnappings, The Mass Graves. Mexico Wants Its Tourists Back by Bryan Curitis.Discusses Mexican government's marketing strategy in the USA - Mexico as an exotic destination. "...Part of what makes...rebranding effort so tricky is that...lacks a geographic metaphor to explain where the violence is. It rages mostly along the border, but it has also popped up in colonial cities like Morelia, in business hubs like Monterrey, and in resort towns like Mazatlan and Acapulco."...Besides the drug war, Mexico in 2009 was battered by two events: the H1N1 pandemic, which scared off the cruise ships, and the Great Recession, which scared off just about everybody else...."
Last edited by TimWalker; 10-10-2011 at 03:31 PM.







Post#71 at 02-09-2012 05:37 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Thank you, American addicts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...html?ref=world

VERACRUZ, Mexico — A suspected member of the Zetas drug cartel led Mexican authorities to mass graves at two ranches in the Gulf coast state of Veracruz where marines unearthed 15 bodies by Wednesday.

The navy said its personnel detained Francisco Alvarado Martagon on Tuesday when he tried to drive a vehicle without license plates past a military checkpoint near the city of Acayucan.

Once in custody, Alvarado Martagon confessed to being a head lookout for the Zetas, the navy said.

Under questioning, the man mentioned two sites at local ranches that the Zetas allegedly used to dispose of bodies, including rivals or members of their own gang who had been executed, it said.

The navy announced Wednesday morning that marines inspected the sites and found the buried, decomposed remains of 10 people but were still searching. The security force increased the number of bodies to 15 later Wednesday.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#72 at 02-09-2012 06:51 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Thank you, American addicts.
Don't blame the consumers. Blame the entities that keep the profit margin on those certain goods unimaginably high.

People don't form cartels and murder each other over a piece of the ground beef trade.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#73 at 02-09-2012 10:53 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
Don't blame the consumers. Blame the entities that keep the profit margin on those certain goods unimaginably high.

People don't form cartels and murder each other over a piece of the ground beef trade.
You're missing all the most important points!

If we don't have militant cartels, who will the CIA and ATF sell drugs and guns to?

Besides, with Osama gone we need a new boogeyman. So imagine Al Capone, except that he's Mexican! Perfect, huh?
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#74 at 02-10-2012 03:27 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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02-10-2012, 03:27 PM #74
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If you think that drugs are despised now, then wait until the 4T is in full force. Heroin, cocaine, meth... if you think that those are anathemas today, then just wait.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#75 at 02-10-2012 04:18 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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02-10-2012, 04:18 PM #75
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
People don't form cartels and murder each other over a piece of the ground beef trade.
Agreed. People in Shakespeare's youth were getting arrested and fined for illegally getting involved in the Wool trade--which the monarchy had a monopoly on--like Shakespeare's dad, which sent little Will from being a well-to-do Middle class son, attending a school while his father the "successful business man" and mayor did his side business, to having to quit school & likely work in his dad's glove shop in order to help keep things going & make ends meet--as Shakespeare's dad had to give up the mayor position and struggle making a living making gloves and paying the heavy fine for messing with the government monopoly.

It's not exactly the same thing, but it shows Governmental restriction on trade creates the black market, and whether it be a monopoly or prohibition, it still creates similar effect.

~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 02-10-2012 at 04:25 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
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