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Posted by: Marc "caveman" Lamb
Date posted: Sat Apr 7 13:53:11 2001
Subject: The "truth" is always
Message:
elusive at best, deniable at worst, and practically nonexistent when concerning men, women and generations.

I would like to ask Ms. Niesha '67 if she believes, "that in order to form a more perfect union," mothers should be allowed (enforced by law if necessary) to carry, care and nurse their little tykes (just until weaned, of course) while at their day jobs?

BTW, the poor never have, and never will vote. The one lone exception to this, of course, is in Chicago where even the dead vote.

Posted by: Neisha '67
Date posted: Sat Apr 7 14:28:42 2001
Subject: Actually . . .
Message:
. . . a few companies are doing just that. I saw something on Dateline, or the Today or one of those fluffier news shows where they were interviewing the CEO of an insurance company and an ad agency that allowed moms to bring babies under six months to work. Here in Portland, I know of at least one law firm that has a lawyer who brings her baby to work. Another major firm has a nice room with a refrigerator, a rocking chair and a couch for support staff to use while pumping. Lawyers have their own offices, so the firm rents breast feeding lawyer moms their own mini-fridges to store expressed milk for the period of time while they are breastfeeding.

Also study after study after study has proven that children in high quality day care *at every stage of development* are more highly developed socially, comfortable with new people and situations, and verbal than babies who stay at home. Not surprisingly, babies in day care have better developed immune systems than babies who are home. Day care is the closest thing we have to the tribe or the large extended Victorian family. In these days of 1-2 child nuclear families it is difficult to get kids into the necessary social situations to allow their social skills and immune systems to properly develop. In northern and western Europe even moms who don't work put their kids in day care so that they won't fall behind their peers. Studies have also shown that kids who have dad as the primary care giver do just fine (although it is mystifying to me that anyone felt the need to study something so obvious).

Posted by: Neisha '67
Date posted: Sat Apr 7 14:51:36 2001
Subject: And . . .
Message:
. . . at the height of the next 4T, women are *less* likely to stay home than they are now. Recall that during WWII women were needed to go to work to do the jobs that men abandoned when they went off to war. 4Ts may start off with high unemployment, but they ususally end up with everybody being required to pitch in and go to work. The role of women in the public arena is actually *expanded* during the 4T, especially for a hero generation. Didn't you guys ever see "A League of Their Own"? When was the last time since WWII that we had a successful women's baseball league? What about "Rosie the Riveter"? Millie women may stay at home during the next high (which I kinda doubt, but I guess those of us still around will see), but they sure won't be allowed to stay home during the last half of the 4T. It will be their civic obligation to put together weapons, play in sports leagues, run businesses, drive trucks, produce movies, whatever peacetime jobs the guys were formerly doing. Those New Silent kids are going to be raised in hypersafe Xer-designed day care centers with wall-to-wall electronic surveillance so nothing goes unnoticed. It will be something like Scandanavian state-run super childcare meets George Orwell.

Posted by: Jenny Genser
Date posted: Mon Apr 9 11:57:40 2001
Subject: Working Moms
Message:
I just spend a weekend celebrating Passover with my extended family. The seder was hosted by my younger sister (age 41) who is a senior manager at AT&T AND a mother of two, a twelve-year-old girl and a nine-year-old boy.

Despite the fact that my sister works 60+ hour weeks, she is one of the best parents I know. She is absolutely devoted to her kids and know them inside and out. She strikes the right balance between limits and responsibility, schedules them in appropriate activities but avoids overscheduling, etc. TV is banned during the week and the family sits down to dinner every night. As a result, her children are thriving in school, have friends and an active social life, good grades, differing talents that are nurtured, and they are well-behaved (most of the time) and overall good kids. I don't know how she does it, but she is proof that working mothers can be excellent parents. (Of course, her husband is also very active too).

Posted by: Marc Lamb
Date posted: Thu Apr 12 14:12:13 2001
Subject: "60+ hour weeks
Message:
and is one of the best parents I know."

With all do respect Ms. Genser, I think your notions of what children truly need from their parents is quite distorted by your need to defend the past thirty years of pop-feminism. Not long ago, a generation came forth in the midst of affluence bitching because daddy had "sold his soul to the company store." Now all the "men" are fully feminized and dutifully recognizing that womens place is in the "company store."

How long will it yet be that a new generation comes of age "bitching" because mommy sold her soul to the company store?

Not too much longer I suspect, Ms. Genser. Circles, my dear, crazy circles.

Posted by: Jenny Genser
Date posted: Fri Apr 13 9:00:08 2001
Subject: Combining Work and Parenting
Message:
Don't get me wrong. I do not support any parent working 60+ hours a week. In my ideal world, the standard work week would be 30 hours -- allowing everyone to combine work with parenting, pursuing avocations, studying Torah, or doing whatever. I am forced by circumstances to be a full-time working mother, but I work 40 hours a week, not 60, and I live 1 1/2 miles from my office so there is no commuting.

All I am saying is that despite my sister's crazy hours, she is a darn good parent. Why do I make this claim? "By your fruits, you shall know". These are great kids.

Posted by: Virgil K. Saari
Date posted: Wed Jun 20 7:20:33 2001
Subject: Dreamboats and the reef
Message:
The Soul Mate Generation by Ms. Maggie Gallagher in the 19 June 2001 number of Yahoo Op/Ed takes a look at the state of marriage in the Unravelled Years; and the fantasies that still abound. HTH

I thought this was to be ABOUT sex.
Im a scorpio, lets get on the subject of intergenerational dating!
I have a really hard time envision myself dating a Boomer without it being some sort of affair (I was born in 1979)
I find older women more attractive (not physically people...personality wise)
Because females older than me, Xer females, usually have very good senses of humour, seem to be on top of their sexuality, and dont take any crap. Plus theyve also grown up with full knowledge of the mind numbing TV we all watched as kids, so we can drop references and jokes and enjoy a conversation in the same time continuum.
Millie females I find troublesome.
Although they are very boisterous, extroverted, and energetic, which does alot to cheer up that old, bored, lonesome, introverted feeling us Xer guys often get in our souls, they almost seem way too innocent.
Maybe its because their all under 20 (im closing in on 22) but I always feel like a REALLY old man when theyre around. Feeling like a REALLY old man makes me feel like a DIRTY old man, and I will have none of that until Im about 37 or so.
I dated a millennial once. But, honestly before i ever heard of TFT, (this was early 98) my generational awareness was awakened.
How can I be with a girl who doesnt get a joke from Ghostbusters!
We can be friends...but we will never have that deep union in our souls, because I will be existing in a different reality, that most Xer girls already exist in.

One of the things that has really been hard during this 3T is the adult entertainment industry. About ten years ago there was a movement to upgrade the industry so that clubs featuring exotic dancers would now be referred to as gentleman's clubs. Here in Chicagoland, the country's third largest metro region, there are only a handful of such places. Their fees are quite high, and they have gotten super strict on some of their policies. For one thing, at most of these establishments touching is forbidden. At one club I visited over the past weekend, they instituted a new policy where fantasy dances, which formerly were five dollars, were now charged at two dollars per minute, and the girls all wear timers attached to their garter belts. And to add insult to injury, this two dollar a minute policy even applied to having a dancer sit at your table between sets. I voiced my displeasure at this, and it was acknowledge that the club had experience a loss of business since the policy went into effect. At one of the other clubs you were charged thirty dollars for a private dance for just one song. To me it is ridiculous to pay the kind of money at these clubs if you can't do any touching. And besides, most communities in this area have strictly forbidden the opening of any such clubs, and have often succeeded in getting existing clubs closed down. I wonder why there has become such a punitive attitude on this type of entertainment. I don't really beieve that the government, be it federal, state or local should legislate morality. For God sakes, didn't we learn a lesson in this from the failure of alcohol prohibition?

<FONT SIZE="+3"><center>
'Christian porn site' debuts</FONT></center>



<center> :razz: </center>

What can a person's butt tell us about his or her generation? Upon analysis, we can consistently see the qualities of each generation across the different types of butt. Let's see how butts among each generation differ:

Lost have doughy, yellow butts, hemorrhaged with age. They have the hardened, grumpy flatness to them that comes from sitting on park benches all day. The ethnic, immigrant flavor of the Lost Generation gives their members that slight jaundice that comes from creamy Italian or Jewish skin.

GI's have flat, saggy butts, the kind you could put a square kitchen towel over. They're good for kicking at the golf course, the way the nice, solid seat of GI's pants looks when he's bent over. There's a sort of white fleshiness to them that shows the cellulite that has come with age.

Silents have small, pale butts, not something extravagant to look at but at least you know they do their job. The short, black hairs prickle the texture on their rounded kind of mass. Silent butts have a rounded, swollen kind of texture to them from the way they were continuously spanked during childhood.

Boomers have fat, squeezed butts, a flamboyantly enormous kind that reminds you of an elephant's ear. They have their butts ballooning out, visible whenever they have on a tight, ugly swimsuit that seems to have shrunken too much. The corpulent, formidable butts of Boomers are often embellished with a metal plate that many of them got placed in there during Vietnam.

Xers have tight, retentive butts, like you'd like to see in exercise machine commercials. Every square centimeter is packed with a high-pressure kind of edge and attitude. Tight, showy and fast, the Generation X butt sits in its place crudely, without fanfare or embellishment. This kind of butt is crude, hardened, and has just that right kind of texture that comes from sitting on the broken toilet seat all day.

Millennials have soft, baby butts, the kind that smell of talcum powder and maintain a softness and moderate size all throughout life. The choreography of a Millennial's butt is vibrant, wobbly and rotates back and forth rhythmically as they walk. Butts like these you would want to see in an
Abercrombie & Fitch catalogue . . . even if your tight-assed Boomer parents wouldn't.

Generational Butts? You gotta be joking...I hope! There was a discussion over on Generational Boundaries about generations and body hair....wait till Stonewall Patton sees this. : :

My Mom and siblings used to take the cushion my Italian great grandma sat on and wipe it on each others faces when they werent suspected.
LOST Italian women didnt shower much.
PS>
Does that mean Ill get to chill on Park benches when im old? this sounds great :smile:

Good post Bernie.

On 2001-06-30 23:25, Webmaster wrote:
Posted by: Neisha '67
Date posted: Sat Apr 7 14:28:42 2001
Subject: Actually . . .
Message:
. . . a few companies are doing just that. I saw something on Dateline, or the Today or one of those fluffier news shows where they were interviewing the CEO of an insurance company and an ad agency that allowed moms to bring babies under six months to work...

During the late '80s/early '90s, a woman in my dad's group at work brought her babies (sequentially) to work w/her from the time they were born until they were almost one. They slept in a box (I kid you not) under the mother's desk. No one from the company--a defense-related company--raised an objection. Today, the parents are still married & the kids are doing fine.

On 2002-01-27 21:15, Sherry63 wrote:
During the late '80s/early '90s, a woman in my dad's group at work brought her babies (sequentially) to work w/her from the time they were born until they were almost one. They slept in a box (I kid you not) under the mother's desk. No one from the company--a defense-related company--raised an objection. Today, the parents are still married & the kids are doing fine.

I can see under 6 months, but up to a year???Once those kids start crawling (and mine did at 7 1/2 months!) you can't bring them to work and expect to get a lick of work done, except when they're napping.

On 2002-01-28 09:44, Jenny Genser wrote:

On 2002-01-27 21:15, Sherry63 wrote:
During the late '80s/early '90s, a woman in my dad's group at work brought her babies (sequentially) to work w/her from the time they were born until they were almost one. They slept in a box (I kid you not) under the mother's desk. No one from the company--a defense-related company--raised an objection. Today, the parents are still married & the kids are doing fine.

I can see under 6 months, but up to a year???Once those kids start crawling (and mine did at 7 1/2 months!) you can't bring them to work and expect to get a lick of work done, except when they're napping.

I've always wondered if there was a little Benedryl dosing going on...

It just occurred to me that there don't seem to be any gay people on this board. Or they're not admitting it. I was just curious. I'm not saying this to be annoying.

A discussion of turnings/generations and how it relates to sexual preference would be interesting. Why not? Everything else has been covered

Susan, I'd love to start a discussion about that. I have a friend who's gay who is the one who introduced me to "Generations" (he doesn't post on this board, unfortunately), and we often have discussions about the acceptance of homosexuality and the turnings.

I don't have time for a long post right now, but I'll say that Unravelings seem to have the highest acceptance of a gay lifestyle, at least based on the last two unravelings. But it may just go along with the whole "anything goes" attitude, and perhaps the androgynous sensibility that is popular in unravelings.

I'll write more later.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Anne '72 on 2002-01-31 17:11 ]</font>

What do we mean by "gay lifestyle?" I hear this phrase a lot and it really annoys me, because I think it's meaningless. How do we distinguish the lifestyles of gay people from straight people?

Kiff '61

Actually, here is a funny thing. I've been suffering through a story on AIDS in the African American community and how complicated it is because while there are as many gay black men as there are gay other kinds of men, the "gay lifestyle" is seen as more of a white phenomeonon. The epidemiologists call those who are infected with HIV as "MSM" for Men who have Sex with Men, clearly recognizing that not everybody who does that might think of themselves as "gay" and others might but not be openly participating in the "lifestyle".

about acceptance, back in the vulgar conversation that eventually got locked, I observed that Xers with Silent parents received a much more open and matter-of-fact sex education than Boomers did or that perhaps Millies are. I wonder if that plays into the comparative acceptance of homosexuality in the Unravelling.

On 2002-02-03 17:17, angeli wrote:


about acceptance, back in the vulgar conversation that eventually got locked, I observed that Xers with Silent parents received a much more open and matter-of-fact sex education than Boomers did or that perhaps Millies are. I wonder if that plays into the comparative acceptance of homosexuality in the Unravelling.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I tend to think it's just an effect of the fact that everything receives greater practical tolerance during an Unravelling, since nobody can organize people well enough to oppose anything else anyway. There are a whole lot of people who would like to suppress a whole lot of behaviors, but just as it's hard to get roads repaired and spacecraft launched during an Unravelling, it's also hard to get social suppression 'properly' organized.

On 2002-02-03 17:17, angeli wrote:
...back in the vulgar conversation that eventually got locked, I observed that Xers with Silent parents received a much more open and matter-of-fact sex education than Boomers did or that perhaps Millies are.

I don't think I'm in the mainstream of 13ers on this one--my parents never said word one about it. I learned from sneak-reading Sidney Shel(t or d?)ons...which I guess does reveal my 13er side. :wink:

I learned about menstruation from my mom, but the rest I learned from books. I found a book in my junior high school library that explained everything. Wonder if that same book would be banned nowadays?

Kiff '61